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Date: 3/27/2011 1:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 63026
Our pastor hit on this very subject today. However I want to stress that you must 100% truly believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. It's his shedding of the blood that gets us into Heaven. The old Covenant was the 10 commandments and shedding of animal blood, however when Jesus died on the cross and shed his blood the old Covenant was no longed in use. The New Covenant is that one must believe Jesus shed his blood for our sins. And god is love but like any father he will chastise us for being bad and doing wrong...look at he did to sodom, gonnarah, and babylon. Some say why would he do destroy his own people? Well for one they didn't believe in him and they were into homosexuality, killing people, worshipping idols. Most people hear he destroyed his own people and think he's contradicting himself. Noah is another good example of how God Punishment against unbelievers is delivered.  |
Date: 3/27/2011 4:23:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62798
Thanks for that response, psy. I appreciate you reading and taking time to explain your stance so thoroughly.   |
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Date: 3/28/2011 10:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
"Well for one they didn't believe in him and they were into homosexuality, killing people, worshipping idols." Or collecting sticks on the wrong day.  |
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Date: 3/28/2011 12:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
I see where you do try to somehow distance "religion" from a "belief in God" , yet, your attempt, IMHO, falls short. Also falling short, in my estimation, is your idea of "free will". How can free will mean anything other than the freedom to believe in God or not? In other words, do you think that anyone's experiences in life would be different based on whether they believe in God or not vs. whether they exercised their mind to determine if something was "right" or "wrong"? I will elaborate: I got a call in the middle of the night last night. A classmate of my daughter who was in the hospital having recently undergone surgery to remove cancerous tumors in her spine, died. She was a devout in her faith; her hospital room, which my daughter and I had just visited on Saturday, was full of Catholic icons. What I want to know is, do you think she would have had any different experience in life and, ultimately death, had she not believed in God? Her life turned out the same, regardless, wouldn't you say? Free will, as I have come to understand it, is not the freedom to make choices on whether something is right or wrong. As you seem to have determined, we use our MIND to determine whether or not we will believe in God or not. We use our feelings (heart) to determine if something is right or wrong. Thus, the mind can indicate to you how to act based on whether you think something is right or wrong, but basically how one feels is an instinct, inherent in us merely by us 'being'. In other words, to act based on whether you think something is right or wrong belies the use of your feeling, gut, instinct, which is the indicator of "right" or "wrong" , thus giving you the control over thinking you made the decision to act, not the non-control of having feelings which then indicate the course of action. Do you think it would be an abomination for the EZ Money Corp. to be harvesting shrimp from radiation contaminated water and selling it for human consumption? That the Bible mentions briefly in a historic period of time that the eating of shrimp is abominable (and to be wholly accurate, I do believe it is all crustaceons, and not just shrimp that is mentioned) that could be applicable only to a certain area in the world, to a certain people (say the Japanese in the present time), for a certain period of time? Frankly, I am not here to argue with you about what the Bible says, since I am hardly a Bible scholar, but I ask why you wouldn't think that homosexuals sin in sexual matters just as heterosexuals sin in sexual matters? If we are all to be seen as equals, why would my sinning in a sexual way not be EQUAL to a homosexual sinning in a sexual way? The "learning" in life is JUST that. That we are ALL EQUAL as sinning human beings. The "hate" you see is having someone being told that they are sinning (doing "wrong"  . Since your whole perspective is based on the idea that one can "think" their way out of sin merely by using their mind to claim the sin is something that isn't "wrong", rather than unconditional loving ONE'S OWN SELF in owning up to what they feel, and acceptance of those feelings as instinct, and thus beyond one's control as a "being".God Bless.  |
Date: 3/28/2011 2:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
"How can free will mean anything other than the freedom to believe in God or not?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will , http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/ , http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06259a.htm  |
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Date: 3/28/2011 4:03:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62798
I see the point when you talk about head/heart. That is kind of what I am talking about. I feel like that inner compass is inherent in all of us. It is not dependent on religion. The people who do things like pillage,rape and plunder either do not have one or disregard it for their own purposes, which is also a choice. The idea of the Bible being written in and for a specific time and place is exactly why it does not translate to modernity, imo. Now as far as sexual indisgressions, if you will...normally heterosexual relationships ...the people may be scorned somewhat or preached at...but very rarely if ever arew they literally murdered for it. There is a HUGE disparity and double standard. It is not as black and white as it is being described in your explanation. And like I said the Bible does use the word abomination in both cases.....so would you kill someone for eating seafood that is not approved? It is problematic especially when taken verbatim. That is the concept that I went to great lengths to explain. Now as far as your idea that religion would not impact a person's life. i would like to disagree. I know many people who are religious and they base literally EVERY decision on the edicts of their respective chruches. their outlook on life is intertwined with the lens of their church. It is pretty unavoidable. I think any psychologist would back me up on this. I also disagree with the insinuation that I am claiming people rationalize their way out of sin. My whole point was I think the Bible is inaccurate these days due to mistranslations, edits, cultural changes and such. If you DO read the bible, God wipes out so many ,many people. HE deamnds death quite often. the bible advises to kill almost everyone: "sinners", rebellious women, different ethnic groups from the time period..etc ad nauseum. The point is I would never serve such a sadistic ruler, if one were to exist. I would never look down on women and immoral and property, I would never have slaves, I would never murder someone for being homosexual or "rebellious". Not to mention that 75% of the things most churches teach or not in the Bible or corruptions of things that are in the bible. So, in closing I would like to reiterate that life would be better without religion. |
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Date: 3/28/2011 4:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Actually, the way I read your essay is that not believing in God is best for the world (given that that is what “atheism” describes), but I can glean from both your essay and above comment that what you are trying to put across is the idea that not teaching about God at all, and allowing one to discover for oneself about what that means as a “concept”, would do the world some real good. To that I say, Amen. THAT is free will. And I am also living evidence that it is a great way to grow up because it is how I grew up! I suppose many would think that growing up without religion would lead an adult to be without a religion. THAT thought restricts the idea of free will. Once an adult make the conscious choice that they believe in God and seek out a manner of worship which they feel comfortable with, and, retaining their own beliefs which they came about without the aid of their church of worship, then I am not so quick to condemn religions. As far as condemning religious writings, my view of the Bible is that it is a history book, a song book, an instruction manual, prophesy, etc., etc., etc. That the Old Testament is full of terrible things that occurred long before you were born, I will ask the question I have asked since I have been coming to this site: Had that history happened any other way, do you have any guarantee that the person you are now would have ever been? To visualize that God “kills” people is a close-minded view. I prefer to see things more in the light of “reality happens”. PEOPLE DIE EVERYDAY. How, why, when, etc. doesn’t matter unless you are trying to “shape reality” by trying to expose differentiations in us as human beings such as when you have the ignorance to say that heterosexuals aren’t being murdered everyday due to their sexual sins. Take a look at domestic violence statistics: how many of those occurred because one or the other spouse was cheating on the other? The real issue that we are facing in this world is that professed believers or not, no one seems to believe in the idea of an Absolute Truth, i.e., that the One Source who Sees, Hears, and Discerns All Knows everything. But they sure want to you to believe “their” source (since one can’t allow anyone to think for themselves in response to their being in concert in mind, heart (feeling), and body). Why, I can’t be right about how I feel about “free will” if WikiLeaks says something other . . . God Bless. |
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Date: 3/28/2011 7:40:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62798
I am glad you found religion. I have taken my hat out of that ring for a while now. Addressing the Bible, it contradicts itself constantly. It condemns drinking, but Jesus makes wine for an entire party. It condemns divination, yet "God uses prophets" You brought up prophecy yourself. Yet, the Bible says that is the Devil's work. God violates his own non-killing commandment. When I said God kills, I meant it. He killed almost the whole of humanity with the flood becuase he had a hissy fit. He killed Soddam and Gomorrah. He killed Lot's wife. If you want to get technical...he killed every human being ever by deciding to punish us for Adam and Eve's mistake. All of this is in the Bible. And these are only off the top of my head. Speaking about homosexuals, there is danger and bias toward them almost everywhere. Yes,people who get cheated on MIGHT go insane and kill their partners. That is not what I am referring to. I am talking about every day life. If you have a husband/partner you can get tax breaks, adopt children, inherit estates, make medical decisions, get the legal definition of marriage. If you were to walk down the street holding hands, no one would stare. You would not be "straigh bashed". You are perfectly safe to do as you please. So,yes there is a huge difference in how homo and hetero sexuals are seen and treated. I would also say that it is largely due to religion that this occurs.especially the Abrahamic religions. Widespread misogyny is also due to religion. They introduced the idea it was mandated by God that women be subservient to men. They introduced that for pretty much the first time in history. Before that, there were women in equal roles. There were goddesses and oracles and Cleopatra. Then religion came along and said women were harlots,immoral, impure, less than men. Some people, many people still believe that. As for the idea of absolute truth, I am very doubtful it exists. I already got into the contradictions of the Bible. If that is supposed ot be the direct word of God, how does he contradict himself? He violates his own non-killing commandment. He committs the sin of wrath an almost infinite number of times. As for God being omniscient: why would he ever create Adam and Eve if he knew they'd "betray him"? Why would he bother with humanity if he knew that he would want to kill them all? Furhtermore God himself says in the Bible he creates evil, so there goes the idea of a perfect, all loving God. Now, if God can an ddoes create evil, why would we even get punished? It seems to me the God of the Bible is a hypocritical, judgemental, sadistic, wrathful entity. I may also add that the Bible states that Satan rules the Earth. That would make more sense than a supposedly loving Heavenly Father. Either that or God is asleep on the job. |
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Date: 3/28/2011 10:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Likewise, you are as entitled to your life as it is. Curious, though, is it one which DOES believe in God but just doesn’t like Him because He “Makes” Reality Happen? Sure, I can accept your terminology in saying that “God Kills” since in my viewpoint God is All, so “All” would be unlimited. I see you choose to limit God as “All Good” and then proceed to put Him down because He Didn’t Fit into your limited perception of Him. I think if you asked any number of psychologists, that particular pattern of thinking is typical with individuals who have control issues. Speaking of control, how can Satan not rule the earth? “Satan” literally means the opposite of God. The attitude prevalent on this earth that we, the humans, are in control is opposite to God Being in Control (OmniPowerful). Somewhere in the middle is the murky idea I am sensing in your comments of those who actually believe that God Is in Control, but you are not at all happy with the way He Has Things Going and are seemingly hostile to Him for that. I’ll ask you that question again: If everything that has happened throughout all of history did not go down just the way it did, be that the possible rape and impregnation of your great - to the 12the time - grandmother or the deathly strike by lighting of the man who was about to murder your great - to the 9th time – grandfather as a boy, can YOU guarantee that you – the person which is made up of your particular DNA —would exist? Additionally, I am hard-pressed to understand why you want to espouse equality for homosexuals partners (to which I am on record on this site to fully supporting an equal designation, and thus benefits, as that of heterosexual partners), yet cling to the unequal notion that homosexuals (and their perpetrators) should be treated differently when they are the victim of a crime. Every murdered human being was murdered for being the human they were. Period. That is an equal concept. To say, “He was murdered because he was a homosexual” should be given greater weight (inequality) when it comes to sentencing vs. “She was murdered because she was a cheating wife” appears to be your position. Why? I really am curious why you would espouse equality in the one instance (homosexual/heterosexual partners) but not in the other (homosexual/heterosexual murderers)? Anyway, my curiosity gets the best of me at times. Forgive me if my line of questioning appears to be badgering . . . God Bless. |
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Date: 3/29/2011 12:27:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62798
you aren't badgering. I am very tired now so i just wanted to let you know i will give you as thourogh of answers as i can tomorrow. Thanks! |
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Date: 3/29/2011 10:47:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62798
Your question: Would I personally exist had things not gone precisely how they did? (to paraphrase) My answer: It depends on what you believe. If you beleive there is a soul, then yes, I would still exist. My body and/or family would be different possibly. Or, some people beleive that you choose your lives before birth. There may be some reason we are who we are physically, so it's possible there might be a need for things to have happened how they did. As far as me having control issues... I really don't think I am limiting God by thinking he should be good.That is what most religions say. He is almost always described as omnipotent,omniscient, merciful,loving. I don't think it is wrong to want that. I could agree with that....but calling God "all"... Well I don't see God in a rapist or murderer. I don't see God when a child is starving to death. I don't see God in a war zonne when innocnet civillians are getting slaughtered. I am very glad that you believe homo and hetero sexual couples should get equal treatment under the law. I wish more people did. As far as the idea that I think there shoudl be a difference in judgement between a cheatign woman or a homosexual person's killer.. I don't. Murder is murder. They should both be punished. I am not really sure I agree with the death penalty but at least life in prison. the entire point I was making is once again that in normal circumstances a straight couple can walk down the street, be safe and fine. Unless there are extenuating circumstances such as cheatign or an already abusive partner, thhey probably won't be murdered. My point was that yes, people ARE murdered only because they are gay, which is disgusting and a blemish upon all humanity that it happens. You must know of brandon teena and matthew sheppard? those are two of the more famous examples. Not to mention all the homosexual peopel harassed and tormented until they became so desperate they take their own lives. There was a rash of like 20-30 not too long ago. So I will end that by sayign we have a long way to go. |
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Date: 3/29/2011 6:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
"“Satan” literally means the opposite of God". Actually 'Satan' is usually translated as 'the adversary'. |
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Date: 3/29/2011 7:05:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62798
Thanks, DP |
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Date: 3/31/2011 8:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
As I have come to realize in my spiritual journey, our “souls” are Gifts of God that allows us to feel as He Feels. I believe our souls are mere portions, though, of the Soul of God (OmniPresence). Thus, ones soul could be made up of “xyz” of the totality of God’s Soul; and while I believe that someone else may have “wyz” of the totality of God’s Soul, there is not one other of His Creation that is made up of the the exact same components. The “xyz” and “wyz” explanation/equation is far more simplistic than the actual make-up each one of us has, but just to give credence to the phenomenon of déjà vu or reincarnation, I use it to explain how I feel this type of phenomenon exists. That is to say that humans can have the feeling that they have experienced this same scenario or moment before due to them having some of the previous experiencers feelings incorporated in them; but I do not believe that an exact replica of another human being is a creation of God. I believe each of us is a Unique Creation of God: one unique soul (or emotional base, or feelings experienced); one unique body (the physical state); AND one unique spirit (IMO, the mind, thinking center). But that just me Ooh. This has my head spinning. You believe that God should be limited to that which is good because that is what most religions teach??? Doesn’t this essay revile that very idea? Come on girl, stick to your convictions. Speaking of convicts, as Jesus tells it, whatever you have done for the least of these, you have done for me. Hmm. Gotta give print to the group my husband feels extremely passionate about: murdered children. Just off the top of my head, I can name a few names too: Haley Cummings, Caylee Anthony, JonBenet Ramsey. I know everyone here can recite one or two names or at least describe the details of a child murder. Why are they murdered? Because they are targeted due to their inability to protect themselves? Any time you use a human characteristic to collectively compare and contrast against the remaining set of humans, you are HIGHLIGHTING the fact that there is an inequality (unequal, aka, not the same, characteristics between the control group and the remaining set of humans). If in that “long way to go” you are looking for equality, then may I suggest stop highlighting the characteristics that we all do not share and share in what we all have in common, being human. Et, tu, DP. What is an adversary but one that takes an opposing side to yours? God Bless. |
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Date: 3/31/2011 9:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
If Satan means the opposite of God, and God is ALL, then wouldn't Satan be Nothing? |
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Date: 4/1/2011 12:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Bingo! “Satan” is nothing other than the figment workings of human beings’ imagination (mind, spirit). Incredible how so many humans allow "Satan" (their mind-set on nothing) to rule their lives, isn't it? God bless. |
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