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Date: 3/15/2010 1:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 27414
I know this probably doesn't help now but why, with the sucky job market, did your husband say that? He should've just gritted his teeth and done it. Especially in your situation. Can he file for unemployment? Although the owner will probably claim that he was insubordinate and refused to do what he was hired to do. I'm so sorry for you guys 'cuz I've been there, done that. Short of apologizing whole-heartedly to his boss and beg for his job back, if he can't find something else, file for unemployment.  |
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Date: 3/15/2010 2:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
...as sucky as it may be...and given the current employment situation - coupled with I'm guessing the far more *lax* approaches Employers seem to have in your country around Employment Law (ie: Something like that would rarely happen in this country. That Employer would be ripped to shreds by our Employment Law/Courts)...I'd be advising going back to that boss, cap in hand, and apologising HUGELY. Thats of course if the job itself was worth a darn...sometimes being unemployed costs you less in the long-run than remaining in a soul-destroying job.  |
Date: 3/15/2010 3:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 47151
I don't know how the rules are where you live, but in Norway, that is illegal. Everything you just said is illegal. His boss cant ask him of anything thats beyond your husbands work description (which is in his contract). Also he needs more reason than your husband denying to do work unrelated to his job and asking for a raise to fire him. Tell your husband to contact his "boss" and check if the situation is still the same. Expect an apology from the boss or you take it to the papers. Stories like this repulse me.  |
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Date: 3/15/2010 4:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 15228
People act like someone is owed a job. I don't know how it is in other countries, but people actually own businesses here and are entitled to run the business as they see fit, the government isn't (yet) involved in micro managing a private business that employees few people. It's called freedom. If a business treats its employees like crap generally the word gets out and the business will take a hit. We don't know the other side of the story on this. Black Sunshine, I would advice you to have your husband call or go in and apologize. If that doesn't work I hope that he qualifies for unemployment. Good Luck, I can't imagine the anxiety you are feeling.  |
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Date: 3/15/2010 4:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 47151
Call it whatever you want Kelly. I call it unstable. I'm really sorry about your husbands job. Hope it works out for the better somehow  |
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Date: 3/15/2010 4:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
Hi Kelly, I actually OWN a business too in my country. Strange that. Other countries - shock horror - do actually own things and actually - shock horror again - might just have a decent clue what business management and business ownership entails. What I don't own are my employees. I employ them to do a job. I do expect them to have some 'give and take' if I ask them to perhaps do something else not specifically specified in the Job Description. For the most part the do...and do so happily...because I maintain a good employer/employee relationship with my workers. I'm also just as open to being flexible if they would like to amend anything with me also. While in some ways our Employment Acts/Laws do in some instances weigh themselves a mite too heavy towards the Employee - heck, its really quite difficult to actually *move on* an underperforming Employee under our country's Employment Law...I do however see that its about a balance - a middle ground. I don't see it being in anyway condusive to good business to have it all weighed towards the Employee...NOR the Employer. If the Employer weilds so much power, well, you get things like this - instant dismissals, which at times can be based upon nothing really. Still...if the idea of an Employer just sacking someone off the bat for something without addressing what the issue is. If the idea of an Employer effectively acting like some sort of slave overseer. If the idea that an Employer can be judge, jury and executioner as, when and how they see fit is YOUR country's idea of *freedom*. Cool. Keep it in your country thanks very much...I see its doing such a bang up job for your own communities and economies... |
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Date: 3/15/2010 4:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 47151
I see that I might have upset some people, and wish to clarify a bit. The rules of which I talk are simply there to have the worker AND the employers best interests at hand to make sure the workers are doing what they should do and that the employer doesn't take advantage of them or have the possibility of misusing power. And in my eyes, this is just that. And I really think its strange that a person is given such "freedom" to play with people's life's like that. Taking a job from someone over no reason at all. It just made me angry is all.. So forgive me if I offended anyone here by questioning your work ethics |
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Date: 3/15/2010 5:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
...yup...the idea of *freedom* smells a lot like *dictatorship*... |
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Date: 3/15/2010 5:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 15228
AgentSmith, LOL @ dictatorship. Dramatic much? How odd that I think it's up to the employer on who they want to hire and fire. Go figure. I know in some countries the unemployment rate always hovers around 10 percent because once you hire someone it's next to impossible to get rid of them if they happen to be dead weight. Therefore companies don't hire. We don't know the whole story on this, do we? So a guy says something to his boss in a joking manner and gets fired? I doubt it. |
Date: 3/15/2010 6:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 15228
Government control=freedom?  ))) |
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Date: 3/15/2010 7:06:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 64723
I know there are some jobs that have a contract in this country... but I've never had one. Most of the jobs here are considered at will. You can quit whenever you want, and the boss can fire you whenever they want. Well... unless your pregnant... Anyway, he knew that he shouldn't have said what he said, which is why he apologized. My husband isn't very good at knowing when to keep his mouth shut. I do like everyone's suggestion about going to his boss and apologizing. I'm going to try to get him to do that. I mean it wasn't the greatest job - he was only bringing in about $150 a week, which wasn't even covering our rent, but it was something at least. And chances are his boss won't give him his job back, but at least maybe it will keep it from being a bridge burnt. Thanks for that idea everyone! If things don't work out, I'm trying to be positive - maybe this could be a whole new start. Maybe I could get a job and he could stay home with Adia... I don't know. I just really need to stay positive so things don't go to crap with me and my husband.  |
Date: 3/15/2010 7:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 14909
I'm sure he said it in a joking way. Yet most bosses don't joke much.  |
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Date: 3/15/2010 8:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
Kelly, Govt Control = Freedom? Please...believeing that the USA is in any way *free* from Govt Control...now THAT is hilarious!! |
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Date: 3/16/2010 1:02:00 AM
From Authorid: 47151
Wow.. you are protecting a country with horrific economy and ideas about freedom that are highly debatable. Its perfectly possible to fire someone if they are doing an insufficient job, but you cannot fire someone because of a spat or disagreement. You need a reason. Its not a matter of control, its more a regulation keeping some rules at the workplace. Your view of freedom seems silly. And talking about freedom; isn't it more liberating to know that you have a steady job than to worry about your boss firing you if he's having a bad day? Where do you draw the line? Is freedom doing whatever you want? Stealing isn't legal.. do you see it as a violation against your freedom? Is the government controlling you because you're not allowed to steal? or worse..? I'm done arguing with you Kelly.. We don't see eye to eye, and thats ok This post is about Black Sunshine and her problems.. so once again, all thoughts to you! Hope things work out. |
Date: 3/16/2010 2:52:00 AM
From Authorid: 21266
LOL Agent Smith, I love EVERYTHING you said. And I couldn't agree more.  |
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Date: 3/16/2010 5:04:00 AM
From Authorid: 2030
Freedom is exactly equal to how much you want to sacrifice for your free will. Here, in a right to work state, my employees don't belong to a union, they are free to negotiate directly with me. I on the other hand have the freedom to evaluate their performance on my terms. I'm not about to terminate an employee for disagreeing with me. A fair wage is paid for a fair days work, but if the employee doesn't want to do the work....? Well then I have no option but to look elsewhere, and the employee is no longer needed.  |
Date: 3/16/2010 6:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 16916
I agree with BCar. This type of labor might not have been in his job description, but it was obviously part of keeping the business (building) up and running. If this wasn't taken care of their wouldn't be a place of employment. Maybe one would consider me a "brown noser" but I know who signs my paycheck and I do what I have to do to make that money, even if it means doing the not so nice jobs at work. At any rate I will say a prayer for you and your family, hopefully if he goes to apologize (like the others have said) he gets his job back or is eligible for unemployment! Best wishes!  |
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Date: 3/16/2010 8:55:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 64723
Just to let ya all know, he went in just a few minutes ago to apologize. He went up to his boss, said "Hey-" and his boss walked away. So. We got our answer. |
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Date: 3/16/2010 9:01:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 64723
P.S. My husband didn't refuse to do the work, he only said "Hey, I don't make much, and I told you last night this was gonna happen." (He used to be in the basement waterproofing business as a boss himself.) I understand he should have been quiet BUT in his defense, this wasn't in his job description, he had told his boss the night before so that the boss could take the proper precautions, but his boss chose to ignore him. When the boss doesn't do what he needs to to make sure things like that don't happen why is it my husbands job to clean up after him? I am completely in agreement that he should not have said what he said... that was kinda numb of him, BUT it did not call for him being fired. |
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Date: 3/16/2010 9:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 47151
Totally! Sounds like his boss just has a huge ego and problems admitting to his mistake or even to be brave enough to face your husband.. Your husband is the bigger man for even trying to make up for what his boss (and some people here, oddly enough..) seem to consider a mistake. |
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Date: 3/16/2010 11:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 4144
well, your husband screwed up. then he tried to fix it. with the boss just walking away it just proves who the bigger man is. it does suck that he lost his job especially the way things are now. but it seems if he used to be a boss he would understand one of the first things you don't do is mouth off at the boss. i'm guessing the boss was either in a sour mood because of the flood or he was looking for an excuse to fire your husband. i've seen it both ways here. but my boss has never fired anybody for mouthing off. he has said to people if they don't like it they don't have to come back but he's never told them not to come back. and we've had a couple come through here that were just dead weight and needed to be fired. i'm sorry this happened to you and i hope he can collect unemployment.  |
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Date: 3/16/2010 11:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 2030
"Why is it my husbands job to clean up after Him"? Hmm? Because he is employed by him? So in fairness his boss should have cleaned it up himself and paid your husband not to? O.K. You're right it isn't his job. I'm sure his boss will be back in touch when something more to his liking opens up. |
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Date: 3/16/2010 12:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 27414
The problem with this country is that mostly everyone is expendable. Without union backing, anyone can be fired for pretty much anything. Recourse is either suing the employer and/or unemployment insurance. But it's sometimes a hard job to prove the employer wrong in what he used as an excuse. And, since there's always someone standing in line waiting for a job, finding a replacement is not hard. I had a boss once that would bounce our paychecks. Sometimes for a month. If the employee quits (because he can't afford to work there) then there's no unemployment payments because the NLRB would back the employer. That's right. You quit! There is no time limit on WHEN the employer has to pay. I know. I went through this with that jerk. The labor laws suck. And I asked them, when does it stop being a job and starts being charity work? |
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Date: 3/16/2010 3:58:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 64723
I'm pretty proud of my husband for going to his former boss and trying to apologize. He realized he was wrong to speak up, which he was, so what more can he do? My husband has never been very good at keeping his mouth shut. Whether its appropriate or not he says whats on his mind. It's frustrating, but... I can't change him. When he was a boss he lead by doing. If something needed to be done he'd do it right along with his employees. His former boss ran the grocery store like it was a high school, as ridiculous as that sounds. If you were friends with him or partied with him you got 40 hours a week. In the two years that the store has been in business he has NEVER given anybody a raise, but expects them to go above and beyond. It's not my husbands job to do two jobs at once. The boss wanted him to clean the basement and work upstairs at the deli so that he could leave to go work out with one of my husbands coworkers. Sorry, BCAR, my husband is a big man, but he's not big enough to be in two places at once. |
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Date: 3/17/2010 5:20:00 AM
From Authorid: 2030
Well then I guess it's all for the best that he's out of there |
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Date: 3/17/2010 6:51:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 64723
It is, I agree. Just a little scary till he finds something else. And I'm not being fair to his former boss... he's young, younger than me, somewhere around 26, and he's always had everything hes wanted handed to him. So... he's understandably a little immature. I'm just mad coz that immaturity affected my whole family. |
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