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Date: 11/13/2004 3:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 47218
I suspect you're going to get a response about the beheadings...to which I would say, one group of extremists doesn't represent all and you could find people willing to go to similar extremes in our own country.  |
Date: 11/13/2004 3:42:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22852
Mollycat.. excellent reply.. Thank You  |
Date: 11/13/2004 3:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 2030
Insurgent is the term used by the American and European press and news agencies to buttonhole murderers and terrorists in Iraq. Leftovers from a defeated regime that do not want change or a Democracy in which majority rules. A concept by the way completely foreign to them amd the bulk of the middle eastern countries.  |
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Date: 11/13/2004 3:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 2030
The American Patriots were not out to create an oppresive fundementalist religious state either. |
Date: 11/13/2004 4:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
you never truly know, BCAR..... anyway, this is a good point. Here, if we did it, it'd be seen as a heroic act.. but for them, it's terrorism. What's the difference?  |
Date: 11/13/2004 4:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 34912
The problem is that most of the so called "insurgents" are not Iraqi nationals. How can they be patriots? Zarquawi, the leader of the Iraq insurgency, is himself a Jordanian. What's up with that? He's no Iraqi patriot. The insurgents have their own agenda. They are part of various jihad networks that have made their way to Iraq in order to take advantage of the chaos and perhaps take control the way the Taliban did in Afganistan by driving the allies out. Most of the Taliban were not native Afgans, but were from places like Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, and Palestine. Osama bin Laden was a Saudi with and agenda for Afganistan. He was not an Afgan patriot. The majority of the Iraqi people (80% typically) show great disdain for the insurgents and do not identify them as patriots. The insurgents have no game plan or patriotic ideal for Iraq. I think the real patriots in Iraq are the 40 Iraqi police recruits who were pulled off a bus and killed execution style by the insurgents. The real patriots are the Iraqi leaders who are standing up to build a democratic Iraq, dispite the danger it may mean to them and their families. I think U.S. and British troops in Fallujah are fighting one of the greatest enemies we will see in this century and I'm proud of them for it.  |
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Date: 11/13/2004 4:07:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22852
Very good replies, thank you. PacificSoul, very good and thank you for explaining that. And BCAR.. You know I love ya! |
Date: 11/13/2004 4:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
PS got it right. Those people are not patriots for anyone; they are religious extremists.  |
Date: 11/13/2004 4:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Actually BCAR, the term insurgent is being used to label all who oppose the occupation and interrim government, whether they are terrorists, foreign fighters, or Iraqi citizens. Not all are actually involved in actual terrorist actions, but guerilla warfare. Storm Chaser, to answer your question, if we were invaded and occupied, I can assure you that there are plenty of us, that if we survived, would take up guerilla warfare to try and remove the occupiers from our homeland, even if it appeared the occupiers were justified in their actions. What would that guerilla warfare include? Snipers, ambushes, and makeshift mines and explosive devices. Who would be the targets? The occupiers, their supplies and communication facilities, as well as any who supported the occupiers in their efforts, even if they are civilians. Those people are often called traitors. During WWII, those who supported the Nazis in the occupied countries were often treated the same as the Nazis. In other words, they were shot or hung, by resistance fighters and partisans. After the Allies moved into an area, the worst of the collaborators were put on trial, while others were banished from villages and towns, after being publically shamed. Not all the Iraqi's involved in the insurgency were part of Hussein's regime. Some may have wanted Hussein removed. What they are fighting against is what they see as an occupation of their country with the idea of forcing our ideas and ideals on them. The Moslem world is a far different place than the western world, and they are not quick to accept western ways, including democratic government.  |
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Date: 11/13/2004 4:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
The last time I checked my history books, some of those fighting against the British in the American Revolution were not colonists. There were also Germans and French fighting. Why did they fight? One reason was their own hatred of the British. The other was to end British colonial expansion. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 4:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
I wonder who was the first to label these guys...the media or the military. I ask because since "insurgent" means "rebel," that label suggests how "succesful" we are in establishing a whole new regime and that these guys are now rebels against the established state on not, say, freedom fighters against an outside force. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 4:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Gypsyhawk, to the best of my knowledge, it was the military that first used the term. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 4:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
I wonder who was the first to label these guys...the media or the military. I ask because since "insurgent" means "rebel," that label suggests how "succesful" we are in establishing a whole new regime and that these guys are now rebels against the established state on not, say, freedom fighters against an outside force. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 4:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
That's what I would have thought, Two Spirit, because of what it means and conveys. The military would want to show success in establishment. Hey author, sorry about the double. You learn something new every day; if you stay on the same page you entered your comment on then hit "refresh," it keeps tacking on your same comment. |
Date: 11/13/2004 4:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 51530
webster defines Patriot: One who loves, supports, and defends one's country, Insurgent a member of an irregular armed force that fights a stronger force by sabotage and harassment. Most people our troops are encountering are not of Iraqi heritage. They are Saudi's, Iranians, Jordanian, and Syrian. Sent to the country to fight by wither the country in question or by terrorist orginizations. There for they can not be Patriots cause it's not their country in the first place. It is not Civil war either. It's what's has been called the war of 1000 cuts, well what's 1000 cuts to 100000 1000lb bombs. It's a sad day in american history when people stick up for those who are killing our troops before they stick up for the troops themselves. Support the troops can not be disgracing the cause that's what people are failing to relize. Patriots, if ever that became a socially exceptable term for these people you would have a seperation between the civilian population and the defenders of your freedom the like of Veitnam era.  |
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Date: 11/13/2004 4:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
you know, looking back, all americans were technically seen as rebels back during the revolutionary war.. we killed many of the British troops.. did that make us insurgents? |
Date: 11/13/2004 4:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Dang skippy she will get a RESPONSE about the beheadings since NICK BURG WAS MURDERED IN ABU-GHARRIB, Abu Ghairb, Abu Garrib, Abu Guhreeb, etc etc. The same place where the scandal ( more smoke and mirrors just like Falujah to, putting Martha in Jail, Anthrax scares, etc. To keep the silly Americans who only care about cable television and SUV's unaware of actual events in the world and thinking of something else.) of Iraqi CIVILIANS (not terrorist prisoners) being tortured sexually and physically and not just by the torturers you may or may not have heard about and of course way more victims then you may or may not of heard about. (Great how the Pentagon had a debate on the issue of how any more information was a threat to national security but do not believe me of course  ) Anyway NICK BURG the first smoke and mirror beheading carried out by US not supposed insurgents is so sad and no information is going to be given to you all about it on TV of course because that would change PUBLIC opinion which of course is the silly people who watch TV and read newspapers for their news in this world. (Not that online is a great source unless you know what your looking for or its still available on Archive.org because they are constantly erasing credible information from the net.) Poor Burg there was in OUR custody (For nothing more then POLITICAL REASONS TO STRONG ARM THE FAMILY) and the family was desperately trying to free their wrongly detained son who just somehow when supposedly freed mind you not even 24 hours he has his head cut off by what I guess you all call insurgents heh. Still in Cuffs. Still in the same Orange Jump Suit. Still in Abu Garrib. Filmed in stardard military time. Attackers are whiter then I am. Wearing gold (Not only a sin to hardcore muslim extremists but they also do not where US military insignia rings eighther ) . Standing in what anyone in the military can tell you is a standard stance of course. More then One camera with obvious video productions training on how to switch between them, cut them, even do medium close ups, long shots etc. Heres the best part. Take the video to your local doctors and ask them in your opinion based on the fact there was no expulsion of BLOOD how this man could of been alive for the "Beheading" (Cause he wasn't). Then if you want to have real fun check out the court case against the Government through public record done by the Burg family  Peace2Ü  |
Date: 11/13/2004 4:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
Very good point. I often wondered why America has been in shock as to what is happening in Iraq. And I agree with two spirit. People band together when they are against the same thing. When america or britain band against "an evil nation" it is fine but if another country does it to them they are all shocked. I think a lot of these countries have a problem with democracy as it does not represent the whole of the country only a majority. And like in the latest election there wasn't a big majority. I think it is important to remember that some of these people are being brought up to hate americans... just like some americans are being bought up to hate the arab antions ( not all but some!) So you see there is an ongoing hatred that is not being solved. They are just egging each other on in a way. JMO Ghost-Chick  |
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Date: 11/13/2004 4:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 51530
and another thing the iraqi's are anything but patrioticthey curse us for bombing their homes, but give free reign to those trying to kill us, nto because of hatred of us or fear of them, but because they haven't a will of there own. When I was in Afghanistan I use to ask all the laborers the what they thought abought President Karzi, their reply was always the same, very good man, then you ask if he's a good leader, and they say no because he's nice. that is the mantality of the arabian world. They understand only strength and will nto committ to a side until the outcome is fortold. They'll take 50 dollars from a terror orginazation to fire rockets at Us convoys and when the US searches for who did it they'll turn in their neighbor so they can get his land. These are not a noble people they've been fighting forever and they like it!!! |
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Date: 11/13/2004 4:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
WOW Wiley! You make a very good point. I believe that there are HUGE conspiracies throught the American governement. And as for the sexually emotional and physical abuse experienced by the detained Iraqui, some who were not even charged and were innocent!!!, it is sick and wrong. No wonder these people hate americans and anyone who supports america. Who knows but these insurgents who are not Iraqis may just be sticking up for a country. Sounds like we are taking steps back not forward! Why did america attack Iraq in the first place? How was Iraq affecting Ameerica? And is the country better off now? Not in my opinion! Ghost-Chick |
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Date: 11/13/2004 4:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
Yes but Emo isn't it how these people are. As you say they are always like this. Who are we to judge what is right and what is wrong. If you were living in Afghan is it possible that you would have to change your morals just to survive? Ghost-Chick |
Date: 11/13/2004 4:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
It's really just semantics. Once the Iraq government was put into place they became insurgents. During the Revolutionary war the ones fighting on the American side were rebels since they were going against their government, England. If America was invaded and the American government replaced, once the new government was set up pockets of resistence would be labeled as insurgents/rebels. A patriot is "one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests." When you're targeting government officials and police officers you are an insurgent not a patriot. The people before Saddam's fall and the new government who fought for Iraq would have been patriots.  |
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Date: 11/13/2004 4:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 51530
OMG i can't believe what I am hearing it saddens me so much. The American people are a headline nation I guess it's true. how soon you forget the crys of why didn't Bush sr. finish the job has become why are we here in the first place. the mourning for those who have fallen has become the praise of those who brought out troops to death. You stated is the country better off right now compared to before, possibly not. Don't forget there is still a war there. It took Germany 10 years to recover from WWII and well did not that result into a wave of democracy across Eroupe. The Insurgents from other coutries fighting are trying to preserve the dictatorships that are intact in their own coutries. Democracy would leave the leadership currently in charge strung up in the streets for the acts against humanity they have carried out. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 5:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
Didn't Bush Sr. only go to Iraq cause Iraq was picking on other nations? I think what I am trying to say is what justifies another country stepping in and saying "you can't do that?" Ghost-Chick |
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Date: 11/13/2004 5:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
Bush Sr. had a reason to go to war back then.. Bush Jr. didn't. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 5:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Vietnam just another fine example of how we will have our own officers and commanders kill eachother for fun. How we will march college students up a hill to take it, go to the bottom just to have to take that hill again. How we will force them not to stop as they march through water and swamp to get jungle rot (Preventable by washing, changing socks, rain boots in some cases and just any kind of protective wear). How we will put cannon fodder of 100's to 1000's of men (Sometimes actually more) to draw out the fire of 5 men in trees with machine guns just to try to napalm them to advance. How we will slaughter a whole villiage of people yet be ordered not to attack this or that villiage with actual militants in it( not to mention poppy fields hmmm) and not just civilians. Im sorry if hanging a childs intestines on a communication wires is unbelievable to most people but it was done and by the US on purpose . Whats great about this though is that there is actually more soldiers in IRAQ. Over 400-500k at any given time and that supposed raise to give them more money and also the monies to give them better equipment that raised the budget from 340 billion to 380 billion on that Iron Triangle of evil. Well that 40 Billion your troops didnt see a dime of it and it went Mostly to the Carlyle group (Some other special interests but not really) to build the crusader missile (Cold war relic already previously scrapped MORE THEN ONCE) even though that was just a smoke and mirror till they went public with it on the NYSE,made killer profit, (Not that they didnt pocket some of that 40 billion) then scrapped the project as well. Your nations defence relies not on your government but Big Businesses that make you an Industrial military Complex. 380 billion . What does your goverment do with that money. CONTRACTS OUT TO "FRIENDLY" businesses. Guess who is a senior member of Carlyle. You guessed none other then the evil Bush Sr. Himself. Skulls and Bones CIA master of destruction. Carlyle is just one other evil in your world that no one talks about they steal the money supposedly going to protect your troops but you do not even know or probably would not care anyway. The rebuilding of Iraq? Besides the Bin Ladin Family (Who have done some great business in Afghanistan rebuilding) have some contracts but so does Carlyle. Low and behold their buyout practice has landed them enough companies to provide not just "defence" like the supposed defence they provide here through your tax money. Through your tax money their (250 billion) Telecommuncations, Constructions (IE not just a house or something silly like a hotel heh. Bridges, roads, etc) not to mention financial institutions. Citi Bank was "Bought" by these mad men (Biggest bank heh)and through imf packages they now own places like the biggest bank in Korea which would of and should still be illegal but no one ever reads fine prints . But remember support the troops right. Let them finish that Pipeline from Afghanistan that Unical and Enron started working on that the Taliban wanted more money for (Funny how they are gone now but Ussamah bin Awad bin Muhammed bin Ladin is still alive and kicking. Still in contact with his family that we jetted out of here sept 11th when you could not get a flight.. Hmmm... Funny how the hijackers are still alive too and no update to that list.. Hmmm) Now you got Enron stealing its workers pensions (They are still out of jail yet Martha supposedly is not heh) The company is still going supposedly under new management yet for some strange reason they secretly own Kayo Oil company which to me violates Anti-Trust laws since that is part of Unicol. (Makes me wish the families would wise up and sue for their pension money from Unicol as well) Now the pipeline is back to the boards when its ready (Meaning they sapped all the money they can) and the president of Afghanistan though having a muslim name is an Executive of Unical/Unicol.. Silly how thats not on TV |
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Date: 11/13/2004 5:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
Totally agree with ya Emi! Ghost-Chick |
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Date: 11/13/2004 5:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
Right On wiley! US have done some terrible things in war which no one seems to remember. Not to mention the awful mistakes they make! I just don't believe this war was justified. Everyone focuses on the bad things Saddam did and it's true he did do awful things but he did good things as well. He got some surt of nobel proze or something for the education system he had put in... Why do people miss the good stuff Iraq did and the bad stuff America did? Ghost-Chick |
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Date: 11/13/2004 5:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Iran Contra (Bush Clinton Crime Family). Saudia Arabia .. Heh.... With that out of the way lets talk about that "Gulf War" how it continued through the clinton Adminstration. How it was just a way to test weapons and make more money. War stocks.. (Yes there are stocks) go down. Certain companies in peace time buy up all the stocks in peace time when they are worthless. Then collect in the war time and somehow magical predict it too. Guess who the biggest money maker on that is... CARLYLE..Support the troops? Ok make the budget 500 billion to the iron triangle and watch how once again the troops get nothing. Watch as how things like Gulf War Syndrom monies disapear into Drug company pockets with NO RESEARCH DONE to cure the thing the government caused.. APHE's. (Manufactured by Israel and United States and against the geneva convention are nicely tipped with Uranium) Armor Piercing High Explosive running through an armored vehicle (Nicely tipped with Uranium) causes nice radiation so those that transported bodies, vehicles, or just survived the vehicles being attacked (Magically attacked mind you by weapons we produce ) developed what they call Gulf War Syndrom and I call radiation exposure in traumatic situations. We cause it. Then do nothing for them. Support your troops and vetrans right. Sure thats why you let them cut Hud Housing and why health care to them is reduced to VA hospitals which are being closed down and thats the halfway deceant ones (Sadly some like VA hospitals not because good treatment but for at least some pay back) Just keep shoving them down the hole cause you support them so much Peace2Ü all |
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Date: 11/13/2004 5:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Bad things? You mean the gassed people they showed on TV that was supposedly receant though those where the same covert photos tooken in the 80's (Those people have been long dead) when the CIA and Iran gassed those people .. I guess we should attack the buddies of the Bush family now. You know Saudia Arabia. If you ever where there you would see innocent people killed everyday with no word. Funny how some are Americans and its swept under the rug since they where expected of knowing too much |
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Date: 11/13/2004 5:36:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22852
My, My, My, great replies. I see some emotion here and no actual fighting and I thank you for that. As for Bush Sr. GhostChic your are right, Sr. went in because he was helping Kuwiat when Iraq went in there. As for Bush Sr. finishing the job, he did as far as getting Iraq out of Kuwait. As for Jr. I myself felt he was wrong in his timing. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 5:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
I also have a suspicion that America only goes into countries to fight when it benefits America. Such as gaining control of the oil in Iraq. If Iraq didn't have oil would he still be fighting there? As for bush sr I think he did finish it because surely the aim was to stop Iraq from invading kuwait. Iraq out job done right? Ghost-Chick |
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Date: 11/13/2004 5:42:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22852
"Wiley" In my opinion you rock! Thank you for saying things in my mind but have trouble putting in words. My husband was in the Vietnam war and was a POW and today is 210% {I know sounds dumb} combat related disabled. It has taken him many years before he was able to tell me things but he is finally coming forward and most people could not even begin to accept things he has had to do and things he has seen. I thank God my son is home from Iraq. But fear for what my nephew will have to see when he goes there. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 5:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
Storm Chaser I am very sorry that your husband has been in so much emotional and mental pain due to vietnam. *huggles* Ghost-Chick |
Date: 11/13/2004 6:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
When Paul Bremer (American Proconsul in Iraq) began privatizing the state owned companies in Iraq and in effect began to liquidize and sell off Iraq's companies to foreign interests .... Iraqis lost their jobs. ... I don't think we as "every day" Americans understand the totality of what is happening to the people of Iraq. Our attempts to turn them into a capitalistic society under the guise of "freedom" has cost many Iraqis their jobs. With that .... many have had nothing to do but sit around and stew about it. As one Iraqi is quoted as saying ... "We know that there are terrorists in the country, but previously they were not successful, they were isolated. Now because the whole country is unhappy, and a lot of people don’t have jobs . . . these terrorists are finding listening ears.” ... This is where a big part of the insurgency is stemming from. ... Would the Americans do the same thing if a foreign country came in and took over our corporations and took away our jobs. ... I think we probably would.  |
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Date: 11/13/2004 6:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
By the way ... I think Emi makes a very logical point. We all know from our history classes back in school that one of the most famous rebellions of the colonists was the "Boston Tea Party" where the colonists were protesting against Taxation Without Representation. We wanted the right to have our own representatives speak for us. We did not want to be under the thumb of another country's ideology without having a say in the matter. I believe the Iraqi people must have very similar feelings about that. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 6:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
you know, I'm sure we've done some of this in other wars too... we've fought with other nations.. and in the army, every once in a while, you'll get the nut jobs that just harm others. (this also goes to Pacific).. this is more what I was thinking... We DO have some wackos in our army, people who could easily be serial killers if they were here, and they would be doing the same thing.. we've probably had them in the past too.. just because we never hear of it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. take for instance Japan: they didn't teach the children anything about what they did the Chinese during WW2. They refused to put it as part of their cirruculum. doesn't mean it didn't happen. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 6:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
and before you attack me for the whole Japanese thing: my mom's friend found out when she was in college here what her people had done to the Chinese. they didn't teach it, they didn't speak of it. it wasn't until she came here did she know about what went on during WW2. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 6:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Ask yourself why we remained in Kuwait. Same reason we changed the name Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL original name for the "War" as part of this fake war on terror) to Iraqi Freedom heh. Though of course its always not just that. even Iraq has construction money to be made, has drugs, and funny enough a Babylon which is actually in the budget to finally be completely restored heh. That I will not get into yet =P. Killing 8 birds with 2 stones is always nice its what they do. Its never about one thing. Oil is nice to them but its never about that. Its like any of the supposed big companies supposedly making up the world economy or the ones making up the US economy. Heh, this one should probably surprise most people but they are supposedly buying out the Tobacco Companies (10 billion a piece about) but then you got the front companies of economy that are about 400 billion that deal with electrical, communication, construction, etc.. All FAKE EARNINGS .. Why they have to Quarum Call so much if you ever attend to make sure when things get to where they may let something slip. Anyway point is yes evil people make money on Oil. Evil people make money on Weapons. Evil people make money by selling death to underage smokers heh but its only THEIR money.. Small time compared. Sure Carlye is a good chunk of Evil in this world. Big 5 accounting firms too. but the real evils are bigger then that. (Like aka tobacco gets boughten out and WTO Gets secret trade laws put into place for other things to aid the actual world economy not the small time fronts.) about 1.7 to 2 trillion dollars a year give or take a skimming by the UN runs the world. 600 to 800 billion is of course Drugs (Smuggling in, letting it be sold, recatching it, looping it, and making as much money as possible off of it all while letting violent criminals out of jail so the small times can go in getting transfered needlessly and given a fake balony sandwhich at a cost of 750$+ " some states, cities, and or counties get to charge even more ludicrous ammounts for this no need supposed meal and booking transfer per inmate. Its why the Jail systems as well have a stock market based on exactly that.. Inmates." now thats just making extra money off the taxpayers as far as some of it goes but there is worldwide a 600-800 billion industry just in drugs. The rest is 1.1-1.4 in just laundering Illlegal money (Alot of it actually tax payer monies actually haha. Aka where your flu shot money went....Go FDA CDC.. What happened to money for Gulf War Syndrom. Why you will have to wait till 70 to get your measly social security. ANY TAKING OF MONEY THEY SHOULD NOT TAKE AND IT JUST VANISHES WHILE PEOPLE JUST GO ABOUT THEIR LIVES OBLIVIOUS.) The rest is just normal everyday laundering of money that is just as illegal in where it comes from and the list to long from just normal gambling, prostitution, assasinations, etc etc to selling weapons etc etc..That is your worlds Economy. Not businesses. But that. You got to love the Drugs though. Like take this for example. 75 to 100 billion alone was let into New York and DC.. MOST CHECKED PORTS. You cannot get in a Gram of Uranium 238 unless of course they are the ones planing it of course heh.. But sure as heck if your from Afghanistan coming in with opium (Go Gran-Poppy of Heroin) you can get in 75 billion of it in. Let in.. Actually Let in.. Seen and LET IN. Sadly though if you are being tuff on a Pipeline deal and are only giving Our man Bin Ladin a 15 to about 25 billion dollar cutt then you get removed from power and now we keep it all and do what we want with our pipeline. (Plus get rid of some Twin Towers that will be built into a "Freedom" tower on tax payer dime that needed to be demolished anyway since it needed more capacity.) Got to love the 3-4 birds with 1 stone there. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 6:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
oh man, Wiley.. I never even thought of that (OIL). how very interesting, huh? |
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Date: 11/13/2004 6:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
hehe Emi they never put real History in anything.. History is always written by the supposed victor dictators. Why people think Betsy Ross made the American Flag. Why they think Thirteen stars represented Freedom. Why you will see that Flag when they are selling coins out of a book (Same book that will sell you WW2 Nazi coins and state quarters) saying how much patriotism these coins represent and yet they are BRITTISH COINS WITH A KING ON THEM heh. Oh and in history they never say it was the Union Jack and stripes (Brittish symbol in the corner) and they just changed it to stars. Why they do not tell the story of the horrible defeat of the League of Nations (The evil United Nations now) because it was an attempt to rule the world easier by the "Illuminati" and was thwarted by a Russian Czar who because of his misdeed was overthrown in his country kind of like how we did Panama heh. Illuminati being another smoke and mirror but only way you can describe it anyway. Its not Carlyle thats for sure.. They are in it. Its not big 5 .. All small.. Council on Human Affairs.. Thats gettin there.. Trilateral Commission.. About the Same.. PNAC is an American part (Hehe Chaney Chaney...) but its small time even though WEU scares me (Brittish one.. They are so bold that they have a 10 headed beast with 10 crowns being riden by a woman statue outside their building) The real Winner Comes to Bilderberg.. Bilderberg is where they all Converge to make up what should happen with the UN and WTO..God "Bless" the Devils who run you All . (PS.. Would also mention some of the higher ups in Masonry but did not want to upset anyone =P.. I will say the Knights Templar are still around and they are really high up there and do some actual scary things.. Mossad/CIA etc nothing to these guys.. As far as Masons.. Remember the only Two Presidents that have been assasinated where not Masons ) |
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Date: 11/13/2004 6:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Already had my Different Bush Samd dick channey joke stolen though they forgot the getting stuck in Colin.. Powel Part... You know Practice Abstinence Bumper Stickers.. OIL joke was used on Leno but no one has yet made a Shirt or sticker of any kind so if you want to make a million dollars there you go .. Operation Iraqi Liberation.. O.I.L. Stickers and shirts and let your mind go wild =P |
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Date: 11/13/2004 6:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
I think that was my first typo.. Not bad.. Different Bush Samd=Same.. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 6:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
that's a shirt I'd wear. and yes, of course they don't put anything bad in the history books unless its about other countries. our history books only like to tell of the "greatness" our country has done. they would never show the bad things we've done.. that wouldn't be "patriotic" |
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Date: 11/13/2004 7:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
I have just started hearing about the Illuminati. makes ya think. As for history books, this is why I like to read so much because you find a lot of conflicting information and you are able to get a better picture. More needs to be said about the bad things! Ghost-Chick |
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Date: 11/13/2004 7:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Understand one thing about me. I support our troops totally. I was one of them for 18 years, and yes, I served part of that time in various hotspots around the world. The author presented a question. My answers to those questions were not going against our troops, but were based on historical consequence, and information from courses in International Law of Armed Conflict, The Conduct of War, and other courses that I either taught or attended during my military time. So you will know a little about tht type of people who live in the Middle East, there are both christians and moslems in many countries there, although most of the population is Moslem. In the early 80s, in Lebanon, there were 76 different religious factions identified as being in the general area. These ranged from moderates on both sides, to extremists. Of those 76 factions, roughly 40% were either hard core Moslem, or hard core Christian. The other 60% were moderates, who may side with the Moslems today, and the Christians tomorrow. Where did these 76 factions come from? From all over the Middle East. Syria was a major supporter of the Moslems, as was Iran. Some of the Christians were from Iraq. Many of these people do not know international boundaries, but are bound by their common beleifs, and their common hatreds. Many also beleive that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", even when they do not see eye to eye. The insurgents, whether they be Iraqi, Syrian, Iranian, Afghan, or Saudi, are fighting a common cause. When that cause is over, they may become enemies to each other. That is just the way it works over there. |
Date: 11/13/2004 7:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 62599
70% of Iraq wants a democracy, and wanted to be out of saddam husseins rule. So yes, the 30% that fight back now are indeed insurgents.  |
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Date: 11/13/2004 7:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 2030
As I said on the other debate. What we are up against are not people fighting for freedom. They are fighting for either a return to an old dictator led regime or to a fundementalist oppresive regime run by the Mullahs. A bad thing in either case, Democracy is a hard thing to sell when your country is in chaos. But remember Hitler sure did have the trains running on time and all the sewers worked. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 7:52:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22852
Wiley... I will take 3 of those shirts and 3 bumper stickers too... Thanks for the Idea.. I do believe I see a fortune to be made at the local flea market. Only in America... LOL |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
BCAR - Don't get me started on hitler! I have some controversial views about him to! Ghost-CHick |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 62599
Comparing japan of ww2 to america of today is like comparing a gang of murderers to a police force. Sure, some cops are corrupt, (As in american soldiers being corrupt) but in ww2 all of japans army was fighting the allied forces. Quite a contrast. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
had you read the comment, you would have seen I didn't compare US today to Japan of then.. I compared them when it came to hiding the bad things in thier HISTORY. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 62599
So wait, let me try to understand this, japan hiding their part in ww2 is equal to america "hiding" that they have some reckless and corrupt soldiers? Er.....if you say so. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
no, I'm saying that Japan hid what they did in WW2.. so it's very possible that we've hid stuff we have done in the past during wars and such. There's no one who can say now what has been hidden and such. then again, much has been hidden now during this war too. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 62599
Right, once you have anything thats got half a foundation, get back to me. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
what? you think you know that we haven't hidden really horrible stuff? gee, I never knew you were that old..... |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 62599
No, i don't know, but the fact remains YOU don't know either, so in truth, there is no debate to be had. Also, to think whatever america has hidden could ever rival what japan tried to hide is folly. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
you miss the entire point, but whatever. you said there was no debate to be had, so I end it here. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 62599
Sadly emi, the entire point was much duller then you'd think. Goodnight. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
Autopilot you missed the point entirely. If you read the posts above you wil see that America HAS hidden information in the past. All she is saying is that in Japan they completely ignored the fact that they had done wrong and refused to let people know about it. If you read Storm Chasers post she said "most people could not even begin to accept things he has had to do and things he has seen." To me this says that if most people can't accet what has happened to her husband this is because they were not informed as to what happened. Therefore America is like Japan in the fact that they cover things up. And as for America having corrupt soldiers... is sexually abusing people corupt? YES IT IS! And this has been proven! Emi's comment is full of foundation and her point was in no way dull at all. Take off those blinders!! Ghost-Chick |
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Date: 11/13/2004 8:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
And the point is that no one knows what really happens and the reasoning behind this. Surely this scares you because it scares me! Why can't people just be nice to other people here? Beyond me! Ghost-Chick |
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Date: 11/13/2004 10:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Heh.. Japan.. How about hiding the fact they knew Japan was going to attack Pearl Harbor and even made sure to trace them all the way there later claiming they looked like birds hahaha. It was all an elaborate scheme to get into the World War. Almost like if you lived in Brittain you would of know 6 months prior 9-11 that they where going to attack Afghanistan . Wait you mean they had planned this before 9-11 .. NO WAY.. hahaha.. Studying International Law of Armed Conflict doesn't tell you anything im afraid.. Sorry but really it doesn't tell you anything about the world at all and the statistics are like saying there are over 300 languages in India. Go count . It does not tell you why the cream of the crop of the Airforce (well engineers too heh) where in Alaska) where in Alaska does it? Why they left about 3 months (Opps am I saying to much) and why they where just doing some quick raids on Fallujah when their main course of Action will be Iran and keeping those officially (Except to the American people of course) 3 flights over Palastine (Peace reasons of course heh) Heres the deal people you have family start worrying. Their "Training" which magically jumped from the laughable 25,000 (Which they said it would be originally cannot wait to put that one online) to 125,000 in one year is only to allow that 400,000 + soldiers to move their way into Iran not back home. Those with 4 years are now 8 years and the poor blokes that got 8 year contracts say good bye to them for as long as 16 years if they wanted them that long. Its not like you can go Awahl like Bush or gain fake purple hearts like Kerry to get out of it all. Its your stuck. Then you have the Navy pulling fast ones cross training so soon you will have cannon fodder (everyone but Navy) and the Navy . How many times have you seen the Navy station itself on LAND let alone the south east corner of Iraq and fly people back and forth (There and America) for more cross training.. (Stop me if I say to much). Not my fault people still do not understand that you have terrorists at places like Irwin training them how to fight in those conditions hehe. Some from the Sakina Securities group actually which is pretty funny since they are still operational in the United States training what your government wants you to be afraid of. (IE Ultimate Jihad Training for Muslims against the Kuffar). Hmm Well when the Giant propane tank (about the equal of a Nuclear bomb) goes up its off the coast of California and trains start getting attacked do not fall for it this time. When on the east coast a nuclear reactor gets blown DO NOT BUY DUCT TAPE. Its just a ploy to get Home Depot stocks up heh.. Stop Buying into this War ON Terror.. The ones leading are the ones that are the Terror and I mean all of them. Not the People. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 10:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Oh if your family wants out from that illegal extension they can try to hold it up a bit if they join the national Guardsman that are sueing for the same reason |
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Date: 11/13/2004 10:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Autopilot, I can assure you that there are a lot of things our military and our government have hidden from the American people. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 10:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Oh yah remember when I say terrorists I usually mean "Terrorists" because they do not exist as much as those people who supposedly crashed into your twin towers when it was obviously demolitions. Just ask any witness there including the fire fighters. |
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Date: 11/13/2004 10:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Date: 11/13/2004 8:57:00 PM From Authorid: 62915 And the point is that no one knows what really happens and the reasoning behind this. Surely this scares you because it scares me! Why can't people just be nice to other people here? Beyond me! Ghost-Chick... Not true. I of course know everything heh.. Reasonings though are crazier then you might think. Like when I said restore babylon. Its in the budget trust me. What for well because it was prophesied. What was it. That it was a begining of the End Times. Do I believe in it? (no comment) Would that Matter if they did and wanted to happen and would stop at nothing to make it so. Trust me these are real fanatics and want to start the 7 years tribulation for Israel. If you let them even if there should be no end times. They will make it so but thats for another time and another day. In the meantime they will charge you 30 cents tax on Gasoline WORLDWIDE and do it 2 years ago (2002 Bilderberg passed a resolution "Even though they supposedly dont affect the world or vote on things.. Just talk" to raise world taxes on gas 30 cents to build UN armies. People like me have been leaking it so now the UN is acting like came up with the idea and is voting on it now. Too bad we leaked the information 2 years ago and this is actually just getting more money cause they actually will raise it again.. Yup thats right.. Again..BTW price of Oil isnt exactly going up just gas prices ) The world shall be sucked dry. Your milk will cost you 5 bucks a gallon and your silly answer to the gas prices buying into their hybrid scheme (Mayhaps even get that new $2000 rebate one time taxes) will now for some reason cost you more road tax.. Hmmm.. Thats funny.. I did not think a hybrid's tire secretly destroyed the road more.. Wow.. Must be making up for the GAS. Peace2Ü all |
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Date: 11/13/2004 10:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Should of saved the Babylon comment for later heh. Too religeous for this right now in the moment since that is still a bit off. (Ie The world will so envy their black gold "Before oil was known of course" that they will attack yada yada yada and restore babylon and usher in the end times.. Yay.. written on the crumbled walls of Babylon). Anyway I got to comment on that Kerry post and mayhaps some sleep |
Date: 11/14/2004 12:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Not even getting in on this one, ehhehe. But really, if people came to attack us I guess we would think of ourselves of being Patriots and the ones attacking us would say we were Insurents, but I think the difference of us and them is that the insurgents cant be called patriots because they are killing and attacking even their own people. 'they are not doing what they do to make the nation better or to defend themself against communissum, they are doing to so they can once again impose terror to the subjects like they had been doing. Anyway, thats my take on it.  |
Date: 11/14/2004 2:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 62915
I stand corrected Wiley no one know what is going on .....except for Wiley! The all seeing, all knowing wiley *bows down low* *huggles*  Ghost-Chick |
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Date: 11/14/2004 5:55:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22852
Wiley you said "The ones leading are the ones that are the Terror and I mean all of them. Not the People." and I couldn't agree with you more. Sadly it is the people in charge that I feel is the ones who put us in danger. AutoPilot... Trust me a lot of the horrors are being kept from the people, when my son returned from Iraq and he watched the news he was shocked! He still has not told us everything but I will say this, the American people are NOT being told everything, my son was disgusted with what was being with held from the public. And just think if a Navy Seabee knows so much more then us imagine what else is being with held. |
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Date: 11/14/2004 6:01:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22852
Firstborn.... Sis what an excellent reply, Thank You! |
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Date: 11/14/2004 6:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Some people have this romantic view of how war is, soldier against soldier, on the field of battle, going head to head, and all others are only observers. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is a philosophy to war that some do follow, and have followed all through history with war. "There are no innocent people. All are part of the battle. Either you support our cause, or you are against it. If you support the enemy, then you are the enemy, and we will do our best to kill you, as well as your women and children, for they to may some day rise up against us. We will even kill your dog, so that he will not turn on us. We will take your livestock to feed our armies, and your horses, so that we may have transport. We will leave nothing or no one behind that can be used against us." That may sound very cold and barbaric, but since the earliest days of history's writing, that is how it has been. Not until the last century were laws written to govern armed conflict. Not all subscribe to those laws however. Our own history here in America even has it's stories of those who followed the old philosophy of war. The war against the Indians is a prime example, and there were even times during our Civil War when the old philosophy was used. When Sherman marched through Atlanta and to the sea, he burned everything in his path, and yes, civilians were killed. The history books do not tell all the atrocities of our own Civil War, since history is often wrote by the victors, yet there were those left to tell the stories, and to see that they were never forgoten. What if we do finally win in Iraq, and remove all the insurgents and terrorists? Will there finally be democracy with no more killing? No, because you cannot destroy people's beleifs. Not all beleive in democracy, and not all want it. There is only a short period of history where the Middle East has not known war or bloodshed of some kind. I doubt we will change that with our presence now. |
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Date: 11/14/2004 7:56:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22852
Wow.. TwoSpirit.. Awesome! Very, Very well said! |
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Date: 11/14/2004 10:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 51530
I love this statement in a reply, "America only gose in when it benifits them". We gained what in Bosnia, what in Afghanistan, what in Hatti, what in somalia, In the Clinton administration we went into a country because of approval ratings. In the Bush administration we went aftera known enemy and reduced the chance of threat in the future. Here's a think piece for you: In 96 the Sudan contacted the CIA offering us Osama Bin Laden on a silver platter. The US responded with, well It never responded to the offer. right now becuase of what happened 5 years later that has become a travisty right? Well in the years to come what do you think the focus of of the iraqi regime would be if not taken from power? there is proof they had attempted to arrange the assination of one of our presidents, and I'm positive the Anthrax scare had from bagdhad with love written all over it. We let Bin Laden go free, and Pres Bush said not under my watch. I find it funny when the case for war was being made there was a 97% approval rating, odd considering everyones been apposed to it the entire time. |
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Date: 11/14/2004 10:44:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22852
Emo.. I understand what you are saying but lets look at it from another countries point of view for a second. What if another countries leader sees President Bush as a threat to their country, do have the right to come to America and take him out? I mean we have weapons of mass destruction. Do you see what I mean, being right is in the eyes of the individual. I myself wish everyone would run their own countries and leave it be at that but there will never be peace on earth as long as men live on it. |
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Date: 11/14/2004 12:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 62599
Wow, are we all talking on different wavelenghts right now? Ghost chick, I'd like to know what america has hidden that rivals japan putting the covers on what they did in ww2. Many soldiers are corrupt, i agree with you, but does the war itself become corrupt because of some soldiers? I know war isn't flowers and roses, but does this really warrant to starting up controversy? Im afraid we seem to be on different wavelenghts. Chaser, the war on terror was not just because saddam hussein was seen as a threat to america (Which now most republicans AND democrats will admit he was) but also to free iraq from his tyranny (Which should have been done years ago) and to establish a democracy in the heartland of terrorism. Invading america would not be the same as invading iraq because in iraq the leader was not voted for democraticly, but instead took over through bloodshed. When u invade a country that wants its leader gone, its very different from invading a country that has elected its leader democraticly. |
Date: 11/14/2004 1:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 21435
Those "insurgents" are nothing but a rabble. They kill for food and more ammunition. They hide behind religion and women and children. They are no good for the majority of the Iraq people, who only want peace and to be left alone. When caught, they should be immediately executed, (publicly) not imprisoned. We are not invaders. We do not want to govern Iraq. We want the people to govern, not the terrorists. At least that's how I see it. Write on, Storm Chaser...  |
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Date: 11/14/2004 1:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 51530
Okay the US have always been a non envolment nation. we have not attacked unless asked by the international community to engage. Your going to say waht about Iraq right now and Afghanistan right? Well in 96 we were asked to go to Afghanistan when the taliban was killing th ebuddist populations, we declined the request but later went in 2001 after an attack on america was conducted by those being harbored in that country, justified I think so. Second Iraq, we were asked once again by the international community when Iraq invaded kwait. a cease fire was declaired in under 30 days but the accord of the cease fire was not lived up to by the iraqi goverment there for the resolution passed by the united nations for war against Iraq by not living up to the agreement the cease fire was dropped by a vote in the UN so a redecleration of war was not needed. People state that Germany, France and Russia were not aboard on teh campein because they did not see the edvidence as viable, well if you look into the initiation of the Gulf war none of those countries sent troops. Plus when you look at who was getting kick backs from oil for food those countries are constantly named. Not to mention most of the military assests we encountered in operation Iraqi freedom were manufactured in those countries making them in violation of the peace accord. Not to mention that Iraq having such weapons violated the treaty. Now are there chemical weapons? Yes there are, where are they then? Ask the United nations, They refuse to give us the locations of known weapons bunkers, serial number documents that will outline exactly what inspectors found over the inspection process time. To put it plainly we got them before they could get us, that's what people are failing to relize, but I assure you 20 years down the road you'll flip on the history channel and be all over the band wagon of the military actions and president you have all but crusified. |
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Date: 11/14/2004 4:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
And one more, Emo. The Kurdish ambassador lobbied hard and heavy for the US government to do something about Saddam for many years. |
Date: 11/14/2004 6:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
To begin with the post I agree with Autopilot's comment. Someone coming in to invade us is totally different from us invading someone else. We would be crazy not to fight off an attack here, over there it's crazy to fight off the attack...well in my opinion anyway.  |
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Date: 11/14/2004 6:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Wiley you make interesting points about GWS, but on the contrary there are so many soldiers afflicted because of chemical exposure and vaccines that should not have been administered. Depleted Uranium is responsible for various breathing issues, some nerve issues and cancers. The amount of people exposed either near or in explosions is no where near close to the amounts actually sick. My husband has GWS and had little to do with uranium. He was however forced to injest Pb pills and was given the anthrax vaccine. There were soldiers that were given extra vaccines because of the job that they would be doing. He along with 10,000 or more other soldiers was exposed to some toxic gases like Sarin that were suspended in the air after a larger weapon bunker was hit. He flew in and out of this plume for days as well as practically functioned on the ground in it as well. |
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Date: 11/15/2004 4:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 51530
exposed to sarin gas, but there's no chemical weapons in Iraq, I've compiled over 100 newspaper adds stating that weapons of such were found, but for some reason all of them were buried on like the page 8 instead of anywhere the average american looks. People keep accusing Bush of conspiring, but no one sees the media conspiring to make this war a failor, and it's not! |
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Date: 11/15/2004 10:10:00 AM
From Authorid: 4309
Tsk Tsk... So much non-information and accusations that we just sit here and watch without knowing the truth ourselves. Afghanistan harbored no one. The people who destroyed your towers did so with demolitions and nothing else. Only thing that can take down a building designed to take multiple hits of a plane much larger then the supposed plane that hit it and at actual key structures (IE the core which still should of been standing). Now the math of it all with less then 3k gallons even if it where put on ONE floor (All nice and concetrated.. Every last drop even though impossible though it would of been impossible to have enough fuel there anyway being how far they went to supposedly get there) with as much silly furniture as you want to say was in there (Doesn't make a difference even at the low flash point Kerosene has its still hotter then a desk burning) it would not burn hot enough to MELT ONE FLOOR. Not One. Now go back to the witnesses that where ACTUALLY THERE. That saw not a 707 (and deffinettly not multiple 747's with over 10,000 gallons of fuel) but a small object resembling something your rich grandad might fly. Then the fire fighters and witnesses that saw the demolitions (Rapid succesion window blow out) The fire fighters who Put THE FIRES OUT. The EARTHQUAKE That was registered (Right of course before the towers fell in on themselves) and how fires raged under the reckage for over 100 days.. Sure hijacked airplanes did all this to our country and magically that fake list of 19 SUICIDE hijackers are coming out of the wood work as Alive..(Guess they did not commit suicide eh) WAKE UP. They where Saudi anyway heh..Too many things too little time.. Passports surviving the crashes to float nicely to the street. Supposed Amatuer videoist just happen to be there at the right time (Normal people mind you) and know just how to Zoom perfectly on the "Planes".. Mossad members boarding the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon yet where deported after they got to Reagan international. Guess they did not go down with everyone else. Peace2Ü |
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Date: 11/15/2004 10:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 4309
Now actually back to the question of this Post.. If Canadians and Mexicans (For some reason) came to our Aid of invasion (In this unlikely scene of protecting their own lands from being overun but something this marshmellowy would never happen) Would they be labled insurgents |
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Date: 11/15/2004 10:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 4309
Like Lady N said.. Its all just "Conspiracy" theory right since people only get their information from magical glowing boxes. Also never impune me on GWS. If I had put a Rad counter on your family members and they worked at a radiation/xray clinic they would have a nice timely vacation. |
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Date: 11/18/2004 10:30:00 AM
From Authorid: 27046
Emo, I can't say if there are or not chemical weapons in Iraq at this point, but they were there in the 90's during the first one where my husband was exposed. |
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Date: 11/18/2004 10:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 27046
What I don't understand is why people can't seem to accept that there are details that we are never going to know about. For example, Wiley makes mention of the richter scale that registered a pretty big leap right before the buildings collapsed. It's not the first time I have heard statements that the buildings were also demolished. So say they were...it makes little sense that the underground mall was still intact and there were still items undisturbed on their shelves when they reached it. After all if they were going to blow the buildings down they would start that somewhere along the base line right? And if the impact from that demolition was enough to bring those two huge buildings down, you would think it would be enough to smash some valuable little trinkets on display shelves wouldn't ya? At the very least you think that the blast would have registered at least somewhere close to the ground shaking that those two huge buildings made hitting the ground, but from what I know the impact of the buildings was less. So is it possible that yes, the buildings were demolished as a part of the plan to take those buildings out, but us the general american public have not had that confirmed and have been left to speculate because as with any crime, there are always details left out for the general public to be absolutely sure that those knowing about it, are the only ones that would know that information and couldn't have picked it up on television or the radio? |
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Date: 11/18/2004 10:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 27046
Although I am not exactly sure the way you are using the word impune....regardless it's apparent you didn't read my comment or you would have seen that I didn't disagree with what radiation and exposure can do. What I was telling you is that the tens of thousands of men and women afflicted with GWS didn't get it from radiation. |
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Date: 11/18/2004 5:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 62599
Again im forced to repeat that invading a country where 70% of the populace wants to see the end of a long and deadly regime is much different from invading a country that had its leader elected democratically. As for a conspiracy surrounding what actually hit the twin towers, its unlikely we will ever know the truth for sure. I have to say, at the very least, my opinion has been swayed in light of new evidence being presented. |
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Date: 11/18/2004 8:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
I have heard that farenheight 9/11 is really good movie. it talks about the war on iraq and how the bush family is connected to the bin laden family. The conspiracy sounds good! Ghost-Chick |
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Date: 11/19/2004 4:56:00 AM
From Authorid: 51530
check out celcius 41.11 the movie, it's got most of the people "interviewed" by michael moore, but the biggest diffrence is the remarks made, are all taken at the same time. In Moores film you can see certain people wearing diffrent ties and what not from sentence to sentence. IT IS NOT A DOCUMENTRY it's propaganda |
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Date: 11/19/2004 5:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 62915
Hmmmm... soemthing to think about however I think he does raise some good points Ghost-Chick |
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Date: 11/19/2004 6:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
The Bush family may very well be in relations to some members of the bin Laden family, but first of all, it is a HUGE family, and the other members are against what Osama is doing. |
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Date: 11/19/2004 6:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Yes they did get the GWS from Uranium exposure and Yes I do know . Im not exactly general public. When I tell you that they flew out of Alaska to Fallujah and how long they have been there (The air force) Its not general public. When I say they will be taking that sad ammount (125,000 trained Iraqis) and using it so not to send soldiers home but to fight the Iranian conflict in the next 4 months (Another reason they moved and where training Airforce in Alaska Fallujah just being a warmup) its not General public. When they started cross training Navy and had them stationed south eastern Iraq thats not general public and I could care very little how they think any information I say is a threat to national security even if I know why they are cross training. I could care less that I still have blue prints on the WTC's that you cannot get your hands on and can show this world so so many things. I can care less they do not want to tell the world that there was way more then just the original shown tortured at Abu Garrib (Civilians) or just normal Civilians blown up or shot unarmed for fun or target practice(Got the videos) Its just sad that when some of the "General" public information gets released and things still do not get done and they show something like Nick Berg getting his head cutt off when that too (Even though this information isn't General Public its just like all things. Still trying to get people to pay attention to the Olson Files) was done by the United States and is why the family is suing. What they show on TV what the General Public knows and what you can find online (If you even know what your looking for and its not gone already) is not even close to the world. People like Michael Moore work for them its why when I get him hooked up from the Guy making the Carlyle group video he only gives him a segment and makes sure not to mention how much effect Carlyle actually has on the world. Republicrats (Mike hates no one he works for them to make people think the way they want you to think) People like Mike make people like me look bad its what they are for. Its like Stew Webb. Crack pot with credible information and you know cutting and editing (Ties changing.. Hahah) So what. All life is Propaganda its doesn't change the issue's.. Like the Synclair production just smoke and mirrors. Only someone who cannot look at something for information would go for silly things like that. Be like saying Charleton Heston wasn't really a racist because his tie changed. |
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Date: 11/19/2004 9:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
Now to explain what I mean about smoke and mirrors just a bit and maybe the difference between the "General Public" http://www.ciudad.com.ar/ar/portales/tecnologia/nota/0%2C1357%2C41893%2C00.asp is a report on Sakina (Translation: After the attacks of September 11 the reproof appeared and self-censorship in hundreds of places of Internet. The Electronic Frontier Foundation devised a report on the base of the collection of informations appeared in the Network related to attitudes of reproof or self-censorship toward places of Internet, after the terrorist attacks of September 11. In the prologue, this organization notifies that “the right to the liberty of expression is faced to strong changes in epochs of crisis”, and invites to report and to denounce for e-mail any fact that tie you against that right. The report divides the closing or blockade of places in categories: Them closed by the Government of the United States (none known up to now), the places of official agencies of that country closed or with information eliminated, them closed by other governments, them blocked by the servants of Internet, them closed total or partly by their owners (autocensors aka Microsoft Eraser or American Intelligence helping them a bit ) and the places that are found low official observation. The British Government closed the places qoqaz.net and sakinasecurities “by having interference in the collection of money for the Taliban and by promoting the “military training for the battle”. The ISP (ISP) Hypervine hill the places allewislive.com (by unknown motives) and iraradio.com, related to the I Exercise Irish Republican. The place azzam.com was closed by various ISP´s (supposedly to order of the FBI) by “to promote news and informations on the Jihad Islamic and the mujaheddin” among others accusations. Finally, diverse media reported that the entry Yahoo would have removed 55 places related to the Jihad. Though did not it deserve a direct reproof, the Government of the United States “recommended” to the executives of news not to diffuse messages, texts or statements originating from the network satellite Al-Qaida by the fear to that could contain messages coded. The main chains of news of that country (between them Fox and CNN) they accepted the recommendation. A similar situation hit upon the place Globalsecurity that received suggestions to trim or to remove supposedly important information of its place. But the largest list corresponds al separated of official places of the American government that closed, they restricted their access or they removed information. Among them it is found that of the Body of Engineers of the Armada, the Departments of Energy and Transportation, the Agency of Environmental Protection, the Federal Administration of Aviation, the Service of Geographical Information, the International Center of Nuclear Security, the Center of Investigation of the NASA, the National Atlas of the United States and the Commission of Nuclear Regulation. Some of these places they contain, or they contained, plans of federal buildings, strategies or courses of action set against catastrophes or attack terrorist, military information or of security, etc. By fear or by solidarity, some owners dropped its own places or well modified their content. The owner of ”The flagburningpage” (the page of the flag in flames) explains their motives in the fear set against possible changes in the laws that try to imprison to whom they exercise any type of protest against United States. The American Confederacy of Scientists removed of its great place splits of information that could be useful to terrorists for a new attack. But perhaps the most curious, and even funny case, of self-censorship is able Bert and Bin Laden to be that of the place Bert is Evil (Bert is the devil) that ironic al refers Sesame Plaza personage. Curiously, after a demonstration by Bin Laden, to circulate a photo in which its followers carried placards of the barbado terrorist and among middle, a with the face of this television personage. “I believe that this has approached too much to the reality and I decided to be it sufficient responsible as to brake this here”, declared Dino Ignacio, owner of the place. The complete report and brought up to date new cases as arise can be found in a page of the place of the EFF and in it the links to the places are found mentioned and to the pages of the different media where the informations appeared that gave substance al report. )and other such organizations like it aka Ummah.org/Jihad all the supposed "Terrorists" Yahoo aol Excite etc etc groups That I personally was busting and they where using microsoft eraser (Blatantly advertising it too) or having higher forms of chain of command get rid of the evidence for them. For instance you notify lower rung FBI and the higher ups make it go away. You get the Brittish OS involved and poof the American intelligence community steps in and the evidence goes away. Go to www.archive.org and look up this site www.sakina.fsbusiness.co.uk Now look at their links and how then how they train people in the ultimate Jihad challenge. I have the original sites snap shotted still to this day so they cannot fool me with the right robot txt submitted and even now its still incriminating (Used to be Jihad against the Kuffar offering the bone cruching better then swat team training to blatantly take over the United States. Not Joking.) They still operate and train I guess what you would call insurgents heh in the United States. Because your Government wants them to. Its why they use some of them at places like Fort Irwin (Along with some supposed Iraqians Iranians Saudi's Afghani's etc ) to train the troops.. Some of the Iraqians of course being part of that little talked about North Eastern part of Iraq that houses supposed (Theres that supposed again) terrorists (Al-Quida) members that we even use and are still using to take over Iraq because they work for us. People got to wake up to the world Its rather sad really.. |
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Date: 11/19/2004 9:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 4309
True if I where in charge of your Media and not Bilderberg you would see a big difference in General Public and what the world is about. In the meantime I will just shake my head. They know what im capable of and I do not joke about that eighther. There are three backbones on the internet. There are secret communications through sound cards. There really was a carnivore now called rip savage and funny enough I just barely watched that movie Swordfish and they only wish they knew the half of it when it comes to drugs and the world (And Carnivore for that matter or anything encrypted and why your government stays at least double over say things like your normal everyday business or IE explorer for that matter. Its regulated) 1.7 trillion a year is your economy. 6 is drugs. 75 billion of it was The Taliban. Sure the pipeline is nice but its always good to kill more birds with one stone then to just do one thing. The towers that fell where already over reaching their capacity. They where needing of a remoldeling and now not only are they getting it but getting it on your tax dime (Lets not forget the tower that fell without a plane hitting it now ) and the evil people that control that building and should of been in those buildings that day where instead in meetings such as the one with the Bin Ladin family watching their investment on a screen with the Carlyle group (But the bin-ladins have no contact with him you say. Sure thats why I got satalite footage of them attending his events like weddings) Just remember they may be able to slap a silly tag like ops consultant on me that doesn't mean I really care. I'll say what I want.. Heck probably makes them nervous that Im still talking about and distributing the other videos of Kennedy being shot ( You know when the driver turns around and shoots him and Jackie O flees in Terror) They are probably real nervous that the man in my house was the man who gave the gun to the man who shot Oswald the patsy (He really was). They reduced this guy to a drunk and then arrested his friend for killing one of patsy's.. Trust me they know all this stuff and if I scared them that much they would make some attempt but for now your not the "General Public" are you? Nope. So I guess I can still talk about videos of Civilians being blown up by tanks as they drive by in a jeep (mother child no reason for it) or an Iraqian on the ground being shot to death unarmed and all the brainwashed kid can say is Cool like its cool. Millions of things they will never show you but I can talk about forever and a day and as soon as one little thing leaks out its like I never even said anything even then. Ah well. |
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