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A letter I got today about the war from John Kerry ~LONG~ but good read.

  Author:  29532  Category:(Discussion) Created:(9/21/2004 5:58:00 AM)
This post has been Viewed (1204 times)

This election is about choices. The most important choices a president makes are about protecting America at home and around the world. A president's first obligation is to make America safer, stronger and truer to our ideals.

Three years ago, the events of September 11 reminded every American of that obligation. That day brought to our shores the defining struggle of our times: the struggle between freedom and radical fundamentalism. And it made clear that our most important task is to fight and to win the war on terrorism.

In fighting the war on terrorism, my principles are straight forward. The terrorists are beyond reason. We must destroy them. As president, I will do whatever it takes, as long as it takes, to defeat our enemies. But billions of people around the world yearning for a better life are open to America's ideals. We must reach them.

To win, America must be strong. And America must be smart. The greatest threat we face is the possibility Al Qaeda or other terrorists will get their hands on a nuclear weapon.

To prevent that from happening, we must call on the totality of America's strength -- strong alliances, to help us stop the world's most lethal weapons from falling into the most dangerous hands. A powerful military, transformed to meet the new threats of terrorism and the spread of weapons of mass destruction. And all of America's power -- our diplomacy, our intelligence system, our economic power, the appeal of our values -- each of which is critical to making America more secure and preventing a new generation of terrorists from emerging.

National security is a central issue in this campaign. We owe it to the American people to have a real debate about the choices President Bush has made and the choices I would make to fight and win the war on terror.

That means we must have a great honest national debate on Iraq. The president claims it is the centerpiece of his war on terror. In fact, Iraq was a profound diversion from that war and the battle against our greatest enemy, Osama bin Laden and the terrorists. Invading Iraq has created a crisis of historic proportions and, if we do not change course, there is the prospect of a war with no end in sight.

This month, we passed a cruel milestone: more than 1,000 Americans lost in Iraq. Their sacrifice reminds us that Iraq remains, overwhelmingly, an American burden. Nearly 90 percent of the troops -- and nearly 90 percent of the casualties -- are American. Despite the president's claims, this is not a grand coalition.

Our troops have served with extraordinary bravery, skill and resolve. Their service humbles all of us. When I speak to them when I look into the eyes of their families, I know this: we owe them the truth about what we have asked them to do and what is still to be done.

In June, the president declared, "The Iraqi people have their country back." Just last week, he told us: "This country is headed toward democracy. Freedom is on the march."

But the administration's own official intelligence estimate, given to the president last July, tells a very different story.

According to press reports, the intelligence estimate totally contradicts what the president is saying to the American people.

So do the facts on the ground.

Security is deteriorating, for us and for the Iraqis.

42 Americans died in Iraq in June -- the month before the handover. But 54 died in July -- 66 in August and already 54 halfway through September.

And more than 1,100 Americans were wounded in August -- more than in any other month since the invasion.

We are fighting a growing insurgency in an ever widening war-zone. In March, insurgents attacked our forces 700 times. In August, they attacked 2,700 times -- a 400% increase.

Falluja, Ramadi, Samarra, even parts of Baghdad -- are now "no go zones" -- breeding grounds for terrorists who are free to plot and launch attacks against our soldiers. The radical Shiite cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, who is accused of complicity in the murder of Americans, holds more sway in the suburbs of Baghdad.

Violence against Iraqis from bombings to kidnappings to intimidation is on the rise.

Basic living conditions are also deteriorating.

Residents of Baghdad are suffering electricity blackouts lasting up to 14 hours a day.

Raw sewage fills the streets, rising above the hubcaps of our Humvees. Children wade through garbage on their way to school.

Unemployment is over 50 percent. Insurgents are able to find plenty of people willing to take $150 for tossing grenades at passing U.S. convoys.

Yes, there has been some progress, thanks to the extraordinary efforts of our soldiers and civilians in Iraq. Schools, shops and hospitals have been opened. In parts of Iraq, normalcy actually prevails.

But most Iraqis have lost faith in our ability to deliver meaningful improvements to their lives. So they're sitting on the fence instead of siding with us against the insurgents.

That is the truth -- the truth that the commander in chief owes to our troops and the American people.

It is never easy to discuss what has gone wrong while our troops are in constant danger. But it's essential if we want to correct our course and do what's right for our troops instead of repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

I know this dilemma first-hand. After serving in war, I returned home to offer my own personal voice of dissent. I did so because I believed strongly that we owed it those risking their lives to speak truth to power. We still do.

Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell. But that was not, in itself, a reason to go to war. The satisfaction we take in his downfall does not hide this fact: we have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure.

The president has said that he "miscalculated" in Iraq and that it was a "catastrophic success." In fact, the president has made a series of catastrophic decisions from the beginning in Iraq. At every fork in the road, he has taken the wrong turn and led us in the wrong direction.

The first and most fundamental mistake was the president's failure to tell the truth to the American people.

He failed to tell the truth about the rationale for going to war. And he failed to tell the truth about the burden this war would impose on our soldiers and our citizens.

By one count, the president offered 23 different rationales for this war. If his purpose was to confuse and mislead the American people, he succeeded.

His two main rationales -- weapons of mass destruction and the Al Qaeda/September 11 connection -- have been proved false by the president's own weapons inspectors and by the 9/11 Commission. Just last week, Secretary of State Powell acknowledged the facts. Only Vice President Cheney still insists that the earth is flat.

The president also failed to level with the American people about what it would take to prevail in Iraq.

He didn't tell us that well over 100,000 troops would be needed, for years, not months. He didn't tell us that he wouldn't take the time to assemble a broad and strong coalition of allies. He didn't tell us that the cost would exceed $200 billion. He didn't tell us that even after paying such a heavy price, success was far from assured.

And America will pay an even heavier price for the president's lack of candor.

At home, the American people are less likely to trust this administration if it needs to summon their support to meet real and pressing threats to our security.

Abroad, other countries will be reluctant to follow America when we seek to rally them against a common menace -- as they are today. Our credibility in the world has plummeted.

In the dark days of the Cuban Missile Crisis, President Kennedy sent former Secretary of State Dean Acheson to Europe to build support. Acheson explained the situation to French President de Gaulle. Then he offered to show him highly classified satellite photos, as proof. De Gaulle waved the photos away, saying: "The word of the president of the United States is good enough for me."

How many world leaders have that same trust in America's president, today?

This president's failure to tell the truth to us before the war has been exceeded by fundamental errors of judgment during and after the war.

The president now admits to "miscalculations" in Iraq.

That is one of the greatest understatements in recent American history. His were not the equivalent of accounting errors. They were colossal failures of judgment -- and judgment is what we look for in a president.

This is all the more stunning because we're not talking about 20/20 hindsight. Before the war, before he chose to go to war, bi-partisan Congressional hearings... major outside studies... and even some in the administration itself... predicted virtually every problem we now face in Iraq.

This president was in denial. He hitched his wagon to the ideologues who surround him, filtering out those who disagreed, including leaders of his own party and the uniformed military. The result is a long litany of misjudgments with terrible consequences.

The administration told us we'd be greeted as liberators. They were wrong.

They told us not to worry about looting or the sorry state of Iraq's infrastructure. They were wrong.

They told us we had enough troops to provide security and stability, defeat the insurgents, guard the borders and secure the arms depots. They were wrong.

They told us we could rely on exiles like Ahmed Chalabi to build political legitimacy. They were wrong.

They told us we would quickly restore an Iraqi civil service to run the country and a police force and army to secure it. They were wrong.

In Iraq, this administration has consistently over-promised and under-performed. This policy has been plagued by a lack of planning, an absence of candor, arrogance and outright incompetence. And the president has held no one accountable, including himself.

In fact, the only officials who lost their jobs over Iraq were the ones who told the truth.

General Shinseki said it would take several hundred thousand troops to secure Iraq. He was retired. Economic adviser Larry Lindsey said that Iraq would cost as much as $200 billion. He was fired. After the successful entry into Baghdad, George Bush was offered help from the UN -- and he rejected it. He even prohibited any nation from participating in reconstruction efforts that wasn't part of the original coalition -- pushing reluctant countries even farther away. As we continue to fight this war almost alone, it is hard to estimate how costly that arrogant decision was. Can anyone seriously say this president has handled Iraq in a way that makes us stronger in the war on terrorism?

By any measure, the answer is no. Nuclear dangers have mounted across the globe. The international terrorist club has expanded. Radicalism in the Middle East is on the rise. We have divided our friends and united our enemies. And our standing in the world is at an all time low.

Think about it for a minute. Consider where we were... and where we are. After the events of September 11, we had an opportunity to bring our country and the world together in the struggle against the terrorists. On September 12, headlines in newspapers abroad declared "we are all Americans now." But through his policy in Iraq, the president squandered that moment and rather than isolating the terrorists, left America isolated from the world.

We now know that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and posed no imminent threat to our security. It had not, as the vice president claimed, "reconstituted nuclear weapons."

The president's policy in Iraq took our attention and resources away from other, more serious threats to America.

Threats like North Korea, which actually has weapons of mass destruction, including a nuclear arsenal, and is building more under this president's watch -- the emerging nuclear danger from Iran -- the tons and kilotons of unsecured chemical and nuclear weapons in Russia -- and the increasing instability in Afghanistan.

Today, warlords again control much of that country, the Taliban is regrouping, opium production is at an all time high and the Al Qaeda leadership still plots and plans, not only there but in 60 other nations. Instead of using U.S. forces, we relied on the warlords to capture Osama bin Laden when he was cornered in the mountains. He slipped away. We then diverted our focus and forces from the hunt for those responsible for September 11 in order invade Iraq.

We know Iraq played no part in September 11 and had no operational ties to Al Qaeda.

The president's policy in Iraq precipitated the very problem he said he was trying to prevent. Secretary of State Powell admits that Iraq was not a magnet for international terrorists before the war. Now it is, and they are operating against our troops. Iraq is becoming a sanctuary for a new generation of terrorists who someday could hit the United States.

We know that while Iraq was a source of friction, it was not previously a source of serious disagreement with our allies in Europe and countries in the Muslim world.

The president's policy in Iraq divided our oldest alliance and sent our standing in the Muslim world into free fall. Three years after 9/11, even in many moderate Muslim countries like Jordan, Morocco, and Turkey, Osama bin Laden is more popular than the United States of America.

Let me put it plainly: The president's policy in Iraq has not strengthened our national security. It has weakened it.

Two years ago, Congress was right to give the president the authority to use force to hold Saddam Hussein accountable. This president, any president would have needed the threat of force to act effectively. This president misused that authority.

The power entrusted to the president gave him a strong hand to play in the international community. The idea was simple. We would get the weapons inspectors back in to verify whether or not Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. And we would convince the world to speak with one voice to Saddam: disarm or be disarmed.

A month before the war, President Bush told the nation: "If we have to act, we will take every precaution that is possible. We will plan carefully. We will act with the full power of the United States military. We will act with allies at our side and we will prevail." He said that military action wasn't "unavoidable."

Instead, the president rushed to war without letting the weapons inspectors finish their work. He went without a broad and deep coalition of allies. He acted without making sure our troops had enough body armor. And he plunged ahead without understanding or preparing for the consequences of the post-war. None of which I would have done.

Yet today, President Bush tells us that he would do everything all over again, the same way. How can he possibly be serious? Is he really saying that if we knew there were no imminent threat, no weapons of mass destruction, no ties to Al Qaeda, the United States should have invaded Iraq? My answer is no -- because a commander in chief's first responsibility is to make a wise and responsible decision to keep America safe.

Now the president, in looking for a new reason, tries to hang his hat on the "capability" to acquire weapons. But that was not the reason given to the nation; it was not the reason Congress voted on; it's not a reason, it's an excuse. Thirty-five to forty countries have greater capability to build a nuclear bomb than Iraq did in 2003. Is President Bush saying we should invade them?

I would have concentrated our power and resources on defeating global terrorism and capturing or killing Osama bin Laden. I would have tightened the noose and continued to pressure and isolate Saddam Hussein -- who was weak and getting weaker -- so that he would pose no threat to the region or America.

The president's insistence that he would do the same thing all over again in Iraq is a clear warning for the future. And it makes the choice in this election clear: more of the same with President Bush or a new direction that makes our troops and America safer. It is time, at long last, to ask the questions and insist on the answers from the commander in chief about his serious misjudgments and what they tell us about his administration and the president himself. If George W. Bush is re-elected, he will cling to the same failed policies in Iraq -- and he will repeat, somewhere else, the same reckless mistakes that have made America less secure than we can or should be.

In Iraq, we have a mess on our hands. But we cannot throw up our hands. We cannot afford to see Iraq become a permanent source of terror that will endanger America's security for years to come.

All across this country people ask me what we should do now. Every step of the way, from the time I first spoke about this in the Senate, I have set out specific recommendations about how we should and should not proceed. But over and over, when this administration has been presented with a reasonable alternative, they have rejected it and gone their own way. This is stubborn incompetence.

Five months ago, in Fulton, Missouri, I said that the president was close to his last chance to get it right. Every day, this president makes it more difficult to deal with Iraq -- harder than it was five months ago, harder than it was a year ago. It is time to recognize what is -- and what is not -- happening in Iraq today. And we must act with urgency.

Just this weekend, a leading Republican, Chuck Hagel, said we're "in deep trouble in Iraq ... it doesn't add up ... to a pretty picture [and] ... we're going to have to look at a recalibration of our policy." Republican leaders like Dick Lugar and John McCain have offered similar assessments.

We need to turn the page and make a fresh start in Iraq.

First, the president has to get the promised international support so our men and women in uniform don't have to go it alone. It is late; the president must respond by moving this week to gain and regain international support.

Last spring, after too many months of resistance and delay, the president finally went back to the U.N. which passed Resolution 1546. It was the right thing to do -- but it was late.

That resolution calls on U.N. members to help in Iraq by providing troops, trainers for Iraq's security forces, a special brigade to protect the U.N. mission, more financial assistance, and real debt relief.

Three months later, not a single country has answered that call. And the president acts as if it doesn't matter.

And of the $13 billion previously pledged to Iraq by other countries, only $1.2 billion has been delivered.

The president should convene a summit meeting of the world's major powers and Iraq's neighbors, this week, in New York, where many leaders will attend the U.N. General Assembly. He should insist that they make good on that U.N. resolution. He should offer potential troop contributors specific, but critical roles, in training Iraqi security personnel and securing Iraq's borders. He should give other countries a stake in Iraq's future by encouraging them to help develop Iraq's oil resources and by letting them bid on contracts instead of locking them out of the reconstruction process.

This will be difficult. I and others have repeatedly recommended this from the very beginning. Delay has made only made it harder. After insulting allies and shredding alliances, this president may not have the trust and confidence to bring others to our side in Iraq. But we cannot hope to succeed unless we rebuild and lead strong alliances so that other nations share the burden with us. That is the only way to succeed.

Second, the president must get serious about training Iraqi security forces.

Last February, Secretary Rumsfeld claimed that more than 210,000 Iraqis were in uniform. Two weeks ago, he admitted that claim was exaggerated by more than 50 percent. Iraq, he said, now has 95,000 trained security forces.

But guess what? Neither number bears any relationship to the truth. For example, just 5,000 Iraqi soldiers have been fully trained, by the administration's own minimal standards. And of the 35,000 police now in uniform, not one has completed a 24-week field-training program. Is it any wonder that Iraqi security forces can't stop the insurgency or provide basic law and order?

The president should urgently expand the security forces training program inside and outside Iraq. He should strengthen the vetting of recruits, double classroom training time, and require follow-on field training. He should recruit thousands of qualified trainers from our allies, especially those who have no troops in Iraq. He should press our NATO allies to open training centers in their countries. And he should stop misleading the American people with phony, inflated numbers.

Third, the president must carry out a reconstruction plan that finally brings tangible benefits to the Iraqi people.

Last week, the administration admitted that its plan was a failure when it asked Congress for permission to radically revise spending priorities in Iraq. It took 17 months for them to understand that security is a priority, 17 months to figure out that boosting oil production is critical, 17 months to conclude that an Iraqi with a job is less likely to shoot at our soldiers.

One year ago, the administration asked for and received $18 billion to help the Iraqis and relieve the conditions that contribute to the insurgency. Today, less than a $1 billion of those funds have actually been spent. I said at the time that we had to rethink our policies and set standards of accountability. Now we're paying the price.

Now, the president should look at the whole reconstruction package, draw up a list of high visibility, quick impact projects, and cut through the red tape. He should use more Iraqi contractors and workers, instead of big corporations like Halliburton. He should stop paying companies under investigation for fraud or corruption. And he should fire the civilians in the Pentagon responsible for mismanaging the reconstruction effort.

Fourth, the president must take immediate, urgent, essential steps to guarantee the promised elections can be held next year.

Credible elections are key to producing an Iraqi government that enjoys the support of the Iraqi people and an assembly to write a Constitution that yields a viable power sharing arrangement.

Because Iraqis have no experience holding free and fair elections, the president agreed six months ago that the U.N. must play a central role. Yet today, just four months before Iraqis are supposed to go to the polls, the U.N. Secretary General and administration officials themselves say the elections are in grave doubt. Because the security situation is so bad and because not a single country has offered troops to protect the U.N. elections mission, the U.N. has less than 25 percent of the staff it needs in Iraq to get the job done.

The president should recruit troops from our friends and allies for a U.N. protection force. This won't be easy. But even countries that refused to put boots on the ground in Iraq should still help protect the U.N. We should also intensify the training of Iraqis to manage and guard the polling places that need to be opened. Otherwise, U.S forces would end up bearing those burdens alone.

If the president would move in this direction, if he would bring in more help from other countries to provide resources and forces, train the Iraqis to provide their own security, develop a reconstruction plan that brings real benefits to the Iraqi people, and take the steps necessary to hold credible elections next year -- we could begin to withdraw U.S. forces starting next summer and realistically aim to bring all our troops home within the next four years.

This is what has to be done. This is what I would do as president today. But we cannot afford to wait until January. President Bush owes it to the American people to tell the truth and put Iraq on the right track. Even more, he owes it to our troops and their families, whose sacrifice is a testament to the best of America.

The principles that should guide American policy in Iraq now and in the future are clear: We must make Iraq the world's responsibility, because the world has a stake in the outcome and others should share the burden. We must effectively train Iraqis, because they should be responsible for their own security. We must move forward with reconstruction, because that's essential to stop the spread of terror. And we must help Iraqis achieve a viable government, because it's up to them to run their own country. That's the right way to get the job done and bring our troops home.

On May 1 of last year, President Bush stood in front of a now infamous banner that read "Mission Accomplished." He declared to the American people: "In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." In fact, the worst part of the war was just beginning, with the greatest number of American casualties still to come. The president misled, miscalculated, and mismanaged every aspect of this undertaking and he has made the achievement of our objective -- a stable Iraq, secure within its borders, with a representative government, harder to achieve.

In Iraq, this administration's record is filled with bad predictions, inaccurate cost estimates, deceptive statements and errors of judgment of historic proportions.

At every critical juncture in Iraq, and in the war on terrorism, the president has made the wrong choice. I have a plan to make America stronger.

The president often says that in a post 9/11 world, we can't hesitate to act. I agree. But we should not act just for the sake of acting. I believe we have to act wisely and responsibly.

George Bush has no strategy for Iraq. I do.

George Bush has not told the truth to the American people about why we went to war and how the war is going. I have and I will continue to do so.

I believe the invasion of Iraq has made us less secure and weaker in the war against terrorism. I have a plan to fight a smarter, more effective war on terror -- and make us safer.

Today, because of George Bush's policy in Iraq, the world is a more dangerous place for America and Americans.

If you share my conviction that we can not go on as we are that we can make America stronger and safer than it is then November 2 is your chance to speak and to be heard. It is not a question of staying the course, but of changing the course.

I'm convinced that with the right leadership, we can create a fresh start and move more effectively to accomplish our goals. Our troops have served with extraordinary courage and commitment. For their sake, and America's sake, we must get this right. We must do everything in our power to complete the mission and make America stronger at home and respected again in the world.

Thank you, God bless you, and God bless the United States of America.



John Kerry

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Replies:      
Date: 9/21/2004 6:08:00 AM  From Authorid: 25390    I just thought I would throw a log on the fire. I was listening to the radio this morning. One of the DJs ran into an Iraqi man that immigrated to the United States after the Gulf War. Most of his family, including his mother, still live in Iraq. Last month, he went back to Iraq for the first time in 15 years. He told the DJ that Iraq is getting better. He also stated that most of the terrorists and militants fighting the US in Iraq are not Iraqi, but people from over Iraqi borders. Mostly Siryia and Pakistani men looking to put a price on Bush's head. He also stated to "vote for Bush." I just thought that was interesting. The voice of one man, yes. But the voice of a man who has lived under Sadaam.  
Date: 9/21/2004 6:46:00 AM  From Authorid: 15228    So now he's against the war in Iraq? Guess the wind must be blowing from the south today.  
Date: 9/21/2004 6:52:00 AM  From Authorid: 25390    LOL Kelly. I was thinking the same thing.  
Date: 9/21/2004 6:53:00 AM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 29532    Kelly, he's not against it in this letter, he's not exactly for it, but what he is trying to say is, we have made mistakes over there that cost us alot. It's time to un do the mistakes and make it right and free those people asap.  
Date: 9/21/2004 7:06:00 AM  From Authorid: 61977    Interesting!! Thanks for sharing this with us. (-:  
Date: 9/21/2004 7:39:00 AM  From Authorid: 13119    It doesn't matter what you post and how good it seems there is always rabid bush fanatics who will not listen. I enjoyed reading this and think that there is some very valid points being made. thank you for sharing it.  
Date: 9/21/2004 8:11:00 AM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 29532    Magoo, I agree. No one will ever just shush when it comes to their oppinion, but isn't that a great thing? I encourage those who oppose Kerry to speak, but will never sway my vote. I adore Kerry's campaign and I am part of it.  
Date: 9/21/2004 10:44:00 AM  From Authorid: 53284    I heard a radio interview with two women from Iraq this weekend. They both think that things are getting better. They talked about schools and jobs. Both said that they thanked the american people for sending their sons and daughters to Iraq to help the Iraq people. It was significantly different than what I see on TV on the nightly news. But I guess with the recent developments of CBS sending info to the democratic party and using forged documents for a story slamming Bush give perspective on what at least CBS chooses to report. Perhaps their is a different version of reality that we are not seeing on the news  
Date: 9/21/2004 11:17:00 AM  From Authorid: 16671    Kerry says, ""In fighting the war on terrorism, my principles are straight forward. The terrorists are beyond reason. We must destroy them. As president, I will do whatever it takes, as long as it takes, to defeat our enemies. But billions of people around the world yearning for a better life are open to America's ideals. We must reach them. """

So what does this take for us to reach them? Doing as bush is doing and fighting this terroism war in other countries instead of on america soil or Kerry like he did in the past, during the days of the vietnam war, sitting at a anti war ralley where Jane fonda was at and come against the war vets?
  
Date: 9/21/2004 11:42:00 AM  From Authorid: 17081    Good point Kelly. At least I know where Bush stands. I know Bush will not fight a "sensitive" war. He will go after the bad guy. Kerry will let them attack us and do nothing about it.  
Date: 9/21/2004 11:54:00 AM  From Authorid: 48812    So those who are willing to listen to the truth about what's going on, are rabid fanatics who don't listen at all? Fascinating, how that apparently works. Yes, let us bow down to the anti-war propoganda shown on TV, and let us stare at the black dot on the white paper. O.O  
Date: 9/21/2004 12:37:00 PM  From Authorid: 58308    Kerry is an IDIOT!!! I am a Bush fan ALL THE WAY!!! RABID AS I AM! Argh! *takes a bite out of Kerry's butt*  
Date: 9/21/2004 12:49:00 PM  From Authorid: 2030    Kerry also said just 3 days ago that he wants to bring in our "allies" France and Germany into the war effort and allow them to "participate" in re-developeing Iraq's oil and gas industry. Hmmmm? Sounds like blood for oil to me.  
Date: 9/21/2004 1:18:00 PM  From Authorid: 2030    Also having actually read all of that I offer a few insights. Much of what he said are self evident truths. Some are half truths, some are just conjecture or spin. What I see much of here is "Bush did this, Bush didn't do this, Bush should do this". I ask, What will John Kerry do? Bush is wrong, Bush is dumb, Bush is a liar are all very poor campaign slogans. Where is Kerry right? Why will he be better and how is he going to do better? For 4 years since the day Bush won the 2000 election it has been attack, attack, attack. Show ME, That's right Show Me a better alternative, a proven better alternative. I'll be waiting.  
Date: 9/21/2004 2:25:00 PM  From Authorid: 35720    Both candidates are idiots in my opinion.. I don't even know who to vote for.. I guess I'll pick the one I end up hating the least in the end.  
Date: 9/21/2004 2:54:00 PM  From Authorid: 16671    LOL at Zeebs. LOL, Yep bcar, kerry suddenly wants to do what bush is already doing, and calling it a *new * Idea. LOL yep kerry is all for calling bush a liar, dumb ect ect bcar, and he keeps telling how he WOULD have did it differnt, WOULD do it better, But Gee he reminds me a lot of my dad, always saying he has the key to humanities woes, but NEVER coming up with that key of explanation.  
Date: 9/21/2004 2:58:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    Hmmm...I can't wait for what he sends out next week because I just KNOW it will say the total OPPOSITE of what this does. This guy makes me laugh. I'm sorry but the guy is a JOKE.  
Date: 9/21/2004 3:03:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    There's a scene from the movie "The Grinch" where he's in his cave and he's yelling at himself to hear his echo. I don't know why but everytime I watch that and he yells "I'm an idiot" and his echo replies "you're an idiot"...I always think of John Kerry.  
Date: 9/21/2004 3:13:00 PM  From Authorid: 16671    LOL you choose.  
Date: 9/21/2004 4:01:00 PM  From Authorid: 47296    Regardless of what either party says, Bush has screwed up in the war on terror, as well as the war in Iraq. Afghanistan was an early success because we used the right troops for the job, troops trained to fight a guerilla type war on the same terms as those they were fighting. Iraq has turned into a different story. While we used massive troop deployment to gain initial success, many of those same troops are not properly trained for the type of mission they must face now. It is true that many of the insurgents are not Iraqi. A lot of them are Syrian. Syria has been a major thorn in our side for years. In fact, Syria was a safe haven for terrorist as far back as our time in Lebanon, and in fact, Syria wa suppoerting those militants who wre against us then. It is time someone woke up and took a good hard look at our real enemies, and did something about them. Unfortunately, it will never happen with Bush.  
Date: 9/21/2004 7:19:00 PM  From Authorid: 58308    . . . and it sure as crap won't happen with Kerry.  
Date: 9/21/2004 9:50:00 PM  From Authorid: 12341    Bcar and some others are right. What is his plan, how would he do it better and at what cost and to whom. Lip service is cheap. I think if we look back at our planes flying into our buildings, our landmarks, we might have a clue why. Fighting terror isn't the same as fighting World Wars. We are fighting AGAINST against almost medievil ways of thinking, we can accept it and be slaughtered in some way or realize that while we were caught up in eight years of a Presidency that will be remembered more for dress stains, cigars, and lies we must now face some truth and realize the world isn't just about the US and some people hate us, a lot.  
Date: 9/21/2004 9:54:00 PM  From Authorid: 15157    John Kerry is a joke....a wishy washy sort. Do we really want a man like this as our new President?  
Date: 9/21/2004 9:58:00 PM  From Authorid: 12341    And WHEN is he going to tell us how he will 'bring the troops home, and will that be the answer? Will be any safer than that time when our planes flew into landmarks and killed thousands of US citizens on this soil, and how are now NOT a greater target of future attacks here in the US and can we depend on "leaving Iraq" as being enough to end this war with terrorists. And WHY did they want the war and where would THEY have it end? Considering they don't mind dying for their cause and I don't have one, I just can't help but depend on on those who have taken an extreme stand against terror in the US.  
Date: 9/21/2004 10:02:00 PM  From Authorid: 12341    Countries run by dictators or military insurgents are rarely Free people, we need to look at the larger more global aspect, not just the US, but the entire Middle East, and where we will take our place and what stand we take against government based entirely on religion or the atrocities being committed against people that are just slaughter of the human race.  
Date: 9/21/2004 10:52:00 PM  From Authorid: 16671    LOL once again at ZEEBS, yep your right hon, it SURE wont happen with kerry. *knods head* at kiki, yep wishy washy.  
Date: 9/21/2004 10:54:00 PM  From Authorid: 37900    If Senator Kerry wants to become the next President of the United States, he needs to become more proactive in his campaigning. Waiting for President Bush to make a statement so the Senator can tell us why it is wrong is not enough to convince undecided voters that Mr. Kerry should be the next leader of the free world. [How many people are going to buy a Ford simply because Ford management criticizes all other automotive brands?] The Senator needs to confront the tough questions without worrying how much of his support is going to erode. For example, how does he propose to build an alliance of countries that have already stated their objection this war? What would he do if such a coalition could not be formed? If the war in Iraq is wrong, does he support the reinstatement of Saddam to power? I suspect that there will be 30% of voters that will vote for either candidate regardless; Senator Kerry needs to define himself as a leader to win the confidence of the remaining 40%. By reacting to the President instead of making the case for his own leadership ability, the Senator risks being defined by the GOP as an indecisive liberal. If that happens, Mr. Kerry cannot win.  
Date: 9/22/2004 4:50:00 AM  From Authorid: 47296    Well, I guess the Bush people believe sending thousands of troops to Iraq for God knows how long is the answer. It is not. Alright retention is dropping in the military. In other words, people are getting out as they are able to. A sure sign that moral is not good. Once again, it is time to use the right troops for the task at hand, troops trained to do the job in a certain way. Bush believes in using masive numbers of troops. At least Kerry knows there are troops who are trained for the task.  
Date: 9/23/2004 10:26:00 AM  From Authorid: 15157    Ok so when Kerry comes into office (God FOBID!) Whats is his first directive?...Bring back ALL the US troops? I think not!  
Date: 9/23/2004 4:56:00 PM  From Authorid: 47296    Kiki, one does not use a sledge hammer to perform brain surgery, and you do not use a massive number of troops to defeat terrorists. There are quite a few units I can think of that are trained for the task of counter terrorism. The war in Iraq i days gone by would have been called partisan warfare. Today we call it terrorist warfare. The fact is we are being fought by people who can attack us at will, and then blend back into the area they are in wihtout anyone ever being the wiser. In every war that has ever been fought where the occupiers remained, there has been this type of warfare, and the occupiers have never managed to defeat those who were attacking them. There is nothing Bush or Kerry can do to make it any different this time. The only difference is that at least Kerry knows that fact.  
Date: 9/27/2004 10:03:00 AM  From Authorid: 23959    I cannot stand Kerry! He just tells us what we want to hear. If he gets elected as president, we are honestly considering moving out of this country. He scares me, on his views about the war in Iraq. I feel safe with Bush as our president, and think he is doing a wonderful job!  
Date: 9/27/2004 12:54:00 PM  From Authorid: 24924    quote: "I just can't help but depend on on those who have taken an extreme stand against terror in the US"..... EVEN IF that "extreme stand" is WRONG? Even if it makes us LESS secure? Even IF it only creates MORE terrorists, and incites and inflames even more hatred and determination ?  
Date: 9/27/2004 1:01:00 PM  From Authorid: 24924    BUSH got us sidetracked into a costly and dangerous war with a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11. Remember Bush shouting out: "Mission Accomplished!"? Yeah,,,,,sure; we're gonna be there for years to come.

The people we are fighting in Sadr City, Fallujah and elsewhere had nothing to do with either 9/11, weapons of mass destruction, or terrorism.

We are creating far more new terrorists than we are killing. Bush's unjustified invasion of Iraq is a very valuable recruitment tool for Al Qaeda.
How can this possibly make America safer?

We're C R E A T I N G NEW terrorists!!

Iraq has turned into into a haven and recruiting center for them. Pouring into Iraq from many countries, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia......

The loss of over 1,000 American lives; over 8,000 Iraqi's; Amerrica is alienated , hated, and laughed by the world. By cutting short, depleting and cutting badly needed $$$ resources for our own welfare here at home, instead of strengthening and fortifying our nations borders, intelligence gathering and cooperation/sharing methods, Bush is doing a bang-up job of destroying any credibility we ever had on the whole World stage.

The Bush administration can repeat a lie over and over and over times a thousand and and turn it into the accepted "truth" by using SCARE and SMEAR. He is very good at it; some say the best. I tend to agree. Yeah, Shimmer, BUSH is the one who tells people what he KNOWS you want to hear.....and you lap it up....swallow it hook, line and sinker. Here, would you like another cup of the People's Temple...er, BUSH Co Kool-aid now?
  
Date: 9/27/2004 1:08:00 PM  From Authorid: 24924    quote: "Once again, it is time to use the right troops for the task at hand, troops trained to do the job in a certain way. Bush believes in using massive numbers of troops. At least Kerry knows there are troops who are trained for the task." TwoSpirit, even I, being a non-military person understands what you are saying. Unfortunately, the Bush supporters don't get it; neither do they even want to understand it. Thank you anyway for saying it.  
Date: 9/27/2004 6:21:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    Oh yah...that's it Thinker...we all just "don't get it" and you do. LOL...that's funny and quite an arrogant opinion might I add. No offense but if I were you. I wouldn't be so SURE you always know what the truth is, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment.  
Date: 9/27/2004 9:30:00 PM  From Authorid: 12341    This statement and what he said and what he wrote is enormous. I'm still not sure myself. I've gone beyond my own limits and watched the vidios of or parts of the "beheadings", I can't imagine that unthinkable "terror", goes beyond my imagination. Even beyond what happened on September 11, 2001. Civilians reduced to slaughter likes pigs, for what cause? And how weak or how mighty will we meet that challenge. For sure, it won't end in Iraq. Too much lives lost and too much going on in the world arena. Get ready, the unspeakable is upon us and the man who leads us now will have more responsibility than ever to atone for. His credibility will have to stand before the world and he will have no defense, only a passion for a world not held back by age old religion and terrorists who hack off heads by extremists in back rooms with camcorders televising their monster deeds, so be careful, and choose wisely, for we all have a huge stake now at what happens in our world and the descision we make will be mean more than it ever has in any of our lifetimes. Regardless of our election, terrorism will never go away in our lifetime, we must worry now about countries and ties that combine explosives with nuclear technology.  
Date: 9/27/2004 10:09:00 PM  From Authorid: 12341    Thinker, I have young grandsons who will someday be called to fight for this country, and I see this war going further, much further than we have any realization for at this point. We can't bury our head and hope that discontent in the world will go away. This enemy is here to stay. When you watch a man having his head sawed off in the name of religion and personal conviction and hear his screams and then when his vocal cords are severed and you only hear his blood screams, all else becomes less political, they each have many lives weighing upon them and whichever one is elected will be called upon to make descisions that will be more global, and that is now our call. We can sit and wait for more and different acts of terror on our own people or fight back. The US is a very young country, I can trace my ancestors back to the earliest war, who fought with Washington for freedom in this country. I don't see how this is any different today, except for time and place. We either recognize the global reality or not. It isn't eleventh century believers I worry about and their abilities "to win the war" against "the Great Satan" as much as those who rally to their cause and have alliance to their beliefs.  
Date: 9/27/2004 10:13:00 PM  From Authorid: 12341    I don't believe "terror" is being created in the US, these countries do a fine job "defining" hatred on their own.  
Date: 9/28/2004 6:57:00 AM  From Authorid: 2030    Insults and Caps.. Thinker is back.  
Date: 9/28/2004 8:09:00 AM  From Authorid: 24924    What hypocrisy! All over the place I see insults hurled , claiming Kerry suporters are Dumb---'s but hey, that is speaking the "truth".

As expected, you are always back with the same ole same old garbage.

You need to go back up there on this post and look at several of your buddies who also use caps and insults. Perhaps you don't notice when it is a Bush supporter. Oh Whatever, this same crap has been said to me before; and the same things have been said in reply, same charges been explained and been refuted, yada yada yada. Nothing changes around here. Kinda like the whole BUSH gang thang goin' on..... Anyone who dares throw it back; they are labeled and told that they are "arrogant". These peeps need to turn off the FOX news.
  
Date: 9/28/2004 8:28:00 AM  From Authorid: 34487    I don't EVER recall seeing anyone that's posted here calling anyone that is a Kerry supporter "dumb."  
Date: 9/28/2004 8:34:00 AM  From Authorid: 34487    I watch NBC and CNN primarily but yes, I also watch Fox. I listen to well-rounded and objective resources and they substantiate my opinions.  
Date: 9/28/2004 3:21:00 PM  From Authorid: 47296    There is a trend I see that is somewhat surprising. I see people who take their freddoms and liberties seriously willing to vote for the man most likely to take those freedoms and liberties away, all in the name of national security. If people believe their security is worth giving up what so many have fought and died for, then they do not deserve either freedom or security.  
Date: 9/28/2004 3:47:00 PM  From Authorid: 24924    I agree, TrueSpirit. Brenda,

"do nothing" is not what ANYONE is proposing. There are many many other things that could and should have been done. What has been said is that Bush is totally wrong. And may I remind you Bush ignored warnings long before 9/11. There was absolutely no urgency to go to War.

It wasn't like we suddenly discovered some new information that led us to think Saddam was going to do something horrible in the next few months or even years. (Did you read the Commission's report?) We had the time, we had the leverage, and we had UN inspectors in the country (with much more free access than ever before), and we even controlled the skys above about 1/2 of Iraq (protecting then friendly populations in the Northern and Southern "no-fly" zones).

Many people sat in a war cabinet with Bush. Civilian casualties were discussed, estimated. Then chosen over other alternatives.



The notion of 'pre-emptive military action' based solely on the possibility that one day a country MIGHT have the capability to potentially pose a threat to the US is ludicrous.
Intentionally killing civilians is the terrorists calling card.

The USA Intentionally killing thousands of civilians, and then calling it "collateral damage" is what we do. Fancy wordsmithing to gloss over and hornswoggle the American public.

  
Date: 9/29/2004 9:09:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    TwoSpirit...I have no idea why you would make a comment like that. SO let me get this right, because someone supports Bush...they deserve no freedom or rights? LOL...okay, let's all vote for a guy (who I call, SCARY KERRY), who is TOTALLY CLUELESS because if we do that shows we deserve our freedom? UH, I don't think so. OUR freedom, entitles EVERYONE to vote for whom EVER they choose. It means they're utilizing and respecting their rights by voting for the candidate of THEIR choice, not yours.  
Date: 9/29/2004 9:15:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    Thinker, so Bush had SO much time to prevent the attacks on 9-11? LOL...yah, he was in office for a measely 9 MONTHS prior to them. And let's SEE....Oh, Clinton was in office for how many years BEFORE BUSH?? OH, 8 YEARS...and he sat on his duff & chased interns along the way while IGNORING the information provided to him. I guess because he's a democrat and liberal, he holds no responsibility in the matter huh? Interesting.  

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