Date: 9/3/2004 5:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 18928
im sending ((hugs)) & love your way  |
Date: 9/3/2004 6:06:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62675
Thanks Vadia!!  |
Date: 9/3/2004 6:48:00 AM
From Authorid: 36704
In your posts you act like the school is singling out your child which I really doubt they're doing. They wouldn't go through all the trouble if they didn't feel he needed the help. A young boy kissing other boys and girls his age and talking about the bathroom a lot is not normal behavior for that age group, that would be defined as sexually perverse or sexually inappropriate behavior. You say over your dead body would he be bussed out. Do you really have the best interests of your child in mind when you say that or are you do you not like the "negative" connotations that carries and so you automatically dismiss it as an option. Keeping your child in a classroom where the teacher becomes frustrated, other parents become frustrated, your child becomes known as the "bad" kid in class and the other parents don't want their children around him and as he gets older the children themselves start to become annoyed by the behavior, the disruptions in class, etc. isn't going to do much for his learning or self esteem. It's hard to be a teacher of a child with behavioral and emotional problems and most teachers in regular schools don't have the training or resources that teachers in special education schools do to help children with emotional or physical disabilities. Good luck  |
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Date: 9/3/2004 6:56:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62675
BaseI understand what you are saying. They are wanting to bus him out right away. The problem with that is that according to state laws that have to try everything that is least restrictive first. They don't want to do that. Of course I want what is best for him. But they need to try all the other options first. As to talking about the potty, that is not sexually perverse. It is a normal human function. And yes it is normal for boys his age to talk about it. The pyschologist even said that (the verbage was not in her report). As to kissing people, well I have an affectionite family and have explained to him that he should only kiss family. These were all comments made about him last year when he was 5. He has not done anything along these lines this year. |
Date: 9/3/2004 7:13:00 AM
From Authorid: 23796
Have your Child Evaluated for PDD with an OT eval. Often children with Pervassive development disorder are overlooked. I also Highly recommend it be done by someone Not employed by your school. My son does have emotional issues as well, but the school looked over things that should have been looked at. And They handled my meeting very unprofessional as well. You can contact your state school board to talk about what happened and see their point of view as well as getting a hold of your State attourny general. The Attourney general handles Civil Right and Disability issues.  |
Date: 9/3/2004 7:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 19772
I'm also the mother of a six year old little boy who is in first grade this year too. I had to go to quite a few "meetings" at the school last year also for my "problem child" I wish I had some advice to give you but I don't, lol. But I do want you to know that you're not alone. I know when they first told me about my son I felt like such a bad parent, like maybe I did something wrong. But the more I've spoken to people about it the more I hear about schools just trying to push children who are a little more difficult out of the schools. I admitt my son is no angel either, but he can be, it just takes a little time and patience and most teachers don't want to have to deal with that. They only want their jobs to be easier. And I'm sorry Base, but I guess my Six year old son is a pervert too because he talks about the potty constantly and always tries to kiss the girls. ~Gabrielle~  |
Date: 9/3/2004 7:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 27534
The psych. eval yeilded emotionally disturbed and sexually perverse? What psychologist do they use? I would get a second opinion... In all my years ...I have not seen an evaluation like that as clinical in the educational setting. I am not challenging your veracity...but I would like more information on their data collection and who does that before I form an opinion.  |
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Date: 9/3/2004 7:16:00 AM
From Authorid: 23796
Not saying that you child would Have PDD....But there are other disabilities other than ADHD that children have that the school overlooks. It sounds like your child isn't aware of certain social boundries. That is why I suggested the PDD eval. |
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Date: 9/3/2004 7:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 36704
I didn't say her son was a pervert jynx, pervert and perverse are two different things. Perverse in this case probably means improper or incorrect which she herself said "I am not saying it is right." If it's not right then it's improper or incorrect is it not? That doesn't make him a sexually deviant. And talking about it occasionally and talking about it a lot are two different things and I still say talking about it a lot is not normal behavior for that age group. And Sunni as far as the IEP goes, IDEA and federal law, least restrictive applies to the educational setting the IEP can be implemented in. If the IEP cannot be implemented in a regular classroom even with an aide and the school can show that, then they are breaking no laws by going to a more restrictive environment. So if you really don't want him bussed out to another school make sure that the IEP can be implemented in a regular classroom. |
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Date: 9/3/2004 7:48:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62675
Jynx you comment means alot to me. I don't think that is perverted at all. |
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Date: 9/3/2004 7:49:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62675
Lady, I will look that up. Thank you for the information. No one thinks he is ADD/ADHD. Under the label emotionally disturbed, low attention is one of the things too. |
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Date: 9/3/2004 7:53:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62675
Wise, it was not the pyschologist who said sexually perverse. It was in the socail workers report from comments from the teacher. But yes the pysch. did come up with the ED. She works for the district. I talked to his private counciler last night and we discussed the syptoms (for lack of a better term) for being emotionally disturbed. He does display mildly all of them. We are trying to get another evaluation at public expense because of the way the tests were done and because they did not test for any learning disabilities or auditory sensory disabilities. |
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Date: 9/3/2004 7:56:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62675
Thank you for clarifing Base. We don't know if it can be implimented in the regular classroom because they have never tried any of it. That is my point. At least try adding time with the social worker and behavioral counciler and in a class with an aide before taking him out. Trust me if that stuff doesn't work I have no other choice but to allow it, because I do want what is best for him. My issue is they are not trying other things first. |
Date: 9/3/2004 8:30:00 AM
From Authorid: 46527
The right person acting as an aide in the class can often make a HUGE difference. In my opinion ALL kids of his age go through as stage where they could be labelled 'sexually perverse', it's just a normal part of growing up. If your son receives social work at school (social skills training) the teachers will soon realise whether or not he truly HAS got a problem or whether it is just a stage heis going through. 'Emotionally disturbed' well, that's OK, a lot of kids fit that label and can be turned around with the right support and help in the classroom and at their school. The IEP (individual education plan) iscommon to ALL kids with any special needs, it can range from a one sheet document to many trees worth of paper! It's an important document to have in schoold though as it enables ALL adults that come into contact with your son in school to know exactly WHAT the agreed plan of action is and be able to offer consistant help where needed. I do feel that the people dealing with your sons case could be a little more feeling in their meetings with you as upsetting the mother is NOT the right way to go about things, parental support is essential in any child's education. Let's hopethat the meeting to discuss his IEP goes a little more smoothly for you and your son. Keep us updated! Hugggsss  |
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Date: 9/3/2004 8:33:00 AM
From Authorid: 46527
P.S....I'm not dyslexic, my spacebar just doesn't like me! |
Date: 9/3/2004 10:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
just for your own comfort, i want to point out that i ran a childcare program for eight years and the gross and disgusting were big topics. bathroom humor is hilarious to the five to seven crowd. also, even though the ones doing it were kindergarteners, the boyfriend/girlfriend thing was pretty big and although boys wern't kissy at each other, they were huggy. i wouldn't worry about that stuff too much just yet. i do think the title sexually perverse is an awfully heavy and adult sounding title to hang on a kid and i would try to get that changed at least to something less deviant sounding. his records will follow him all through school and no matter how much he changes the words will be there. take whatever the school can offer you to help your son best and to help him be happy at school. misery at school can be a kid's worst thing because you have to be there every day. i'm sure your son is a great kid and a little hellp is all he needs. i had a child in my program that was emotionally disturbed but one of the greatest little kids i ever had. they ran the gamut for him and he ended up on meds for adhd even though they wern't sure if he was. he was like a completely different kid. it was awesome for him and he was finally doing well at school, playing well with other kids, and best of all, he was happy. try every thing you need to and don't let anyone give you a hard time. things are going to work out, you'll see. and i know what you've meant here, the schools can get pushy once a decision has been made on their part. stand your ground but think of your son first always.  i know you will  |
Date: 9/3/2004 11:06:00 AM
From Authorid: 47218
"sexually perverse"? how is that possible for a 6 year old? I doubt he knows what sex is. Since when was a little kid talking about the potty and showing affection for people considered sexual? I think these people are perverse.  |
Date: 9/3/2004 11:16:00 AM
From Authorid: 10245
I second what Lady Shaman said. Get a medical opinion, don't rely on the schools to make a mis-diagnosis that could impact the rest of his life. PDD-NOS (pervasive developmet disorder-not otherwise specified) is another term used to identify high-functioning autistics as well as other developmetal delays and disorders. It covers a lot of things that don't properly fit into other categories as kind of an umbrella term... one that's a lot less damaging that "sexually perverse". My 4 year old talks of nothing but bathroom humor... it drives me nuts, but I know it will pass. Prepare yourself for some fights with the schools. All of our IEPs have gone very smoothly and I've come out of them quite confident in the direction we're headed, but I've heard many, many horror stories. I also suggest you review the Americans with Disabilities Act to learn exactly what his rights are as far his education is concerned. Our schools inform us of this, but it sounds like you might need to do the research yourself. Good Luck.  |
Date: 9/3/2004 11:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 62880
Well my broth and my parents went through the same thing. But when they diagnosed him emotionally diturbed, we later found out that he in fact had ADD. But, I hope it all works out for you, my brother was a hand full and now hes 21 and doing great. MUCH LOVE *Joseph_3*  |
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Date: 9/3/2004 12:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 59876
merc is giving you some good advice there, she has alot of experience. |
Date: 9/3/2004 1:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 42259
I think that is sick that they can call a 5 year old "sexually perverse"! If he gets kisses from his family at home, then he probably thinks it's okay to kiss a friend. Some kids just take longer to learn socially acceptable behavior.What's wrong with people nowdays?Keep fighting Sunni.I hope everything works out!  |
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Date: 9/3/2004 1:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 42259
And I don't understand how they can label a child that young as having behavioral problems.It is so hard for a little kid to sit still in school all day, especially boys.I read in Readers Digest about how boys were the weaker sex- physically, they get sicker more often, but most of the article was about school.It said that boys aren't ready for school as early as girls, and that sometimes they should be held back a year (do kindergarten twice) not becuase they aren't smart but because they aren't ready emotionally. They show thier frustration by acting out.The article also mentioned what you said about the teachers- they try to get rid of any kids who cause trouble( mostly boys),or they reccomend Ritalin. All to make thier job easier. Lol,sorry for the long rant but I'm angry for your son.This isn't right. |
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Date: 9/3/2004 1:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 10245
His attention span doesn't sound all that out of line to me, either. I've never known a 6 year old who's attention could be held for a full 30 minutes unless there was intense interaction... let alone anything near 90 minutes. None of my kids can even make it through a movie that they're very interested in. My oldest is 8, and has pretty good concentration skills, but even she gets distracted about 1/2 way through. Heck... I can't even stay on task for 90 minutes without a break or two tossed in. |
Date: 9/3/2004 2:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 33925
First of all I have to say this..Base at 4, 5, and 6 years old potty humour is VERY normal with children..especially little boys. I am raising four kids, three of them boys and all three of my boys went through the fart, burp, poo and underwear stage..Its NORMAL. Sunni schools seem to want to take the easy way out where our children are concerned..I look back to MY childhood and back then we didnt have all these labels placed on us. Today children are ADD, ADHD, SAD, emotionally disturbed, learning disabilities..you name it, its there now..quite frustrating when you really think about it. Stand your ground hon and make the school do their job properly.  |
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Date: 9/3/2004 2:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
Not once during my student teaching, doing my practicums or subbing in a kindergarten, first grade or second grade classes have I ever heard a child talk "potty" talk. I'm sure the teacher is well aware of what is normal for students and what is not. I'm one of seven boys, have a son and have a 3 and a 5 year old nephew, LL and while they may talk about burps and farts occasionally and laugh about it, they don't do it in public and they don't do it a lot. The only children I've come across that have a tendency to be obsessed with things like that are ones that were sexually abused and that was for observations for psychology classes not education. Where I come from that's not normal classroom behavior. |
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Date: 9/3/2004 3:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 47218
Sunni, here's another article I thought might interest you. Hope things work at the best for your son! http://www.enc.org/topics/equity/articles/document.shtm?input=ACQ-111389-1389 |
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Date: 9/3/2004 9:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 59876
two words - captain underpants |
Date: 9/3/2004 9:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
The author of the Captain Underpants series was himself a problem child with a behavioral disorder "Pilkey was diagnosed with A.D.D., and suffers from it to such an extent that he avoids face-to-face and telephone interviews. He will answer questions only via e-mail. As a second-grader, Pilkey was so disruptive in class that his exasperated teacher put his desk out in the hallway. (Pilkey says he stayed there pretty much throughout elementary school, moving his desk down the hall outside a new classroom each year)." There seems to be a reoccuring theme here between people who think it's normal and people who have kids with behavioral problems or were children with behavioral problems. I'm not exactly sure how that's proving the point that it's normal behavior.
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Date: 9/3/2004 10:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Dohency summed it up. For me. My grandsons are five and seven, so shy they would never talk to you, but at home, they are quite different. As a professional myself, perhaps not in child development but with some common sense and eduacation, I see lots of "problems" that some educators would love to "hone" in on, but today's society has such huge problems that I doubt they with their "bathroom humor" will ever be a problem. My five year old loves to call his enemies a "piece of poop". I hope thats the worst we need to worry about. They love the word "poop". LOL, who cares?  |
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Date: 9/3/2004 10:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
And they refuse to kiss anyone! Male or female, so what? I give them kisses anyway, even though they "wipe" them off. Leave kids alone and them develop their own identity. |
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Date: 9/3/2004 11:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 59876
i worked with kids from 4.5 years old to 17 years old almost every day for over eight years. my point is this, potty obsession would be over the top, yes, but in my experiences, bathroom humor and gross jokes, the grosser the better, are fairly normal for the kindergarten to second grade crowd. booger jokes and grossology books were always a big winner. nickelodeon does foul facts, then there is grossology, and let's not forget captain underpants. these things are appealing to kids of that age. why? i don't know. kissing and hugging were common. the boyfriend girlfriend thing was a bit shocking because it seemed more serious than what i remember kids doing and at a younger age than when i was a child. these wen't kids that were labeled or having problems, but they participate anyway. morbidity? why? don't know. one of the kid's favorite books was "mathilda who told such dreadful lies" look it up sometime. terribly morbid that book and i'm not at all sure it was appropriate but it was allowed. it was fashioned i guess after all the older fairy tales with heavy lessons in them, but still, it seemed a bit over the top. the kids laugh their butts off at that book and others like it. go figure. the environment i was in was alot less formal than the classroom. that may have something to do with my experiences as i see them by the time kids got to me, they were blowing off alot of steam and ready to play. |
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Date: 9/3/2004 11:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 59876
i might also add i'm not totally talking out my butt here. i did have to attend college and more for my job and these types of behaviors for that age group were described as normal behavior for that age group. having had no experience at that point, i wouldn't have had a clue, and it sure sounded bizarre, but i learned lol. that has been many years ago now though, perhaps i am antiquated lol. |
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Date: 9/3/2004 11:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 59876
i might add that i quite often hugged and/or kissed kids as they came in from school. some kids get to be like family. that is how i got to raise my girls and almost named my firstborn son mitchell after a favorite little guy that was in my program |
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Date: 9/4/2004 12:06:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
i was just discussing this with someone else and this thought occured. a child of that age could still be behaving in a manner consistent with their age group but not in an appropriate place and may possibly not have a firm grasp of where those behaviors are allowed. we allowed our kids to indulge, but of course they wern't supposed to in the classroom. |
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Date: 9/4/2004 12:17:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
i found this on a page i was reading and thought it might help in the future although in our school district, they never hesitated to place kids outside the district if needed. we had one little boy that came to after school by taxi every day for awhile. |
Date: 9/4/2004 12:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
examine the IEP and each of its academic, communication, social/emotional goals (as well as any others), and see if (a) the goals are able to be addressed via the current setting and (b), if they are, in actuality are they being met. Each IEP must be reviewed on an annual basis for exactly that purpose. If you are able to document, via your son's specific accomplishments and the content of the curriculum, that the goals are not able to be met, then consideration of alternative settings is appropriate. When a school district is unable to meet a child's needs via their own programs, it is incumbent on the district to seek out-of-district placement. Such settings are often rather expensive, and many districts are wary of referring children due to the significant tuition and transportation costs. But the special education regulations, including appeals procedures, give you the foundation on which you can proceed. If necessary, obtain the services of an advocate, but be careful if you proceed down that road. Advocates can be costly, and you'll want to be sure that the advocate is capable. In some areas, advocates are available through voluntary agencies, and it's well worth exploring the options.
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Date: 9/4/2004 3:40:00 AM
From Authorid: 10245
And also remember it's your right to have his IEP reviewed and updated whenever you feel it's necessary. You aren't limited to one/year... they're required to do at least one per year. |
