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Date: 8/24/2004 4:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 37101
Suddenly we're shocked that uncivilized acts still occur? -  |
Date: 8/24/2004 4:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 62771
thats horrible....they have bad rules in iraq i think they are way to harsh...take care*cherokee gemini* |
Date: 8/24/2004 4:17:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
Smooth Criminal, aren't YOU shocked and or outraged by such barbaric actions? Do you not agree that such things should be brought to world attention? THIS is just one horrific example of what DOES go on when there is a theocracy, and or rule by the "majority" religion.  |
Date: 8/24/2004 4:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 46530
You live in a country that puts its own rules over other people and kill them for it. I doubt that some families in Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, Vietnam and many more places would think that the US way of dealing with people it considers "less than themselves" is good. Yes your laws, and mine, differ from those in places like Iran, but our own laws used to allow for such attrocities in the past, and hopefully the middle east will learn to treat all life, not just that with power, equally  |
Date: 8/24/2004 4:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 50434
What happened wasnt fair seeing her age was lied about, the guy did not have equal punishment and she never had a lawyer, but also I cannot comdem a country for there way of punishment who are we to say what they believe and how they do thing are right or wrong. Our court system and our way of lifes are totally opposite. I am not in any way agreeing with what was done.  |
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Date: 8/24/2004 4:38:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
quote: "I cannot comdem a country for there way of punishment who are we to say what they believe and how they do thing are right or wrong". Then why go after the Taliban in Afghanistan? WHY try to set up a democracy there and in Iraq? Why is there world-wide outrage at many of the practices in these countries? Why do people (when Bush & Co pushed to topple Saddam) wish to ignore the reason given (WMD) and make comments like "well, Saddam was a brutal dictator that needed to be eliminated"? Why stop at Saddam? Why not a whole bunch of other murderous regimes that are in other countries? |
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Date: 8/24/2004 4:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 46530
the taliban were nasty, banning music, girls in school, cinema etc. Saddam and his baathists were nasty. The civilians were, and are ok. The US is only installing a democracy in afghanistans capital, not the country. The rest has basically been handed back to the war-lords when the US left for Iraq. Yes Islamic law is absolute and in many ways unfair but which countries have more non-familial rape, more guncrime, more armed robbery. Islamic or western? |
Date: 8/24/2004 4:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 46527
Treating human beings with compassion SHOULD be accepted behaviour the world over, unfortunately it is not and probably never will be. Sadly this kind of barbaric behviour is also rife the world over, even in countries where we call ourselves 'civilised'.  |
Date: 8/24/2004 5:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 62753
I have nothing to say to this... there are no words to express what a human being feels when they hear of such things..... People are cruel, and yes my dear friends here at USM the world is a very cruel place, and it seems that things are becomming worse..... TAKE care of yourselves, and those you love.  |
Date: 8/24/2004 6:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 38406
OMG! That's terrible!! I'm so happy I live where I live! I could never go into another country!  |
Date: 8/24/2004 6:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 53909
That's just awful to hear   |
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Date: 8/24/2004 7:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 37101
Thinker: Is it a catastrophe but I refuse to be shocked by it. Especially because it happens all over the world. You want action done it against it, yet I've seen you bash the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, where such otricities were brought to an end. There is no pleasing some people. That's why I'm not engaging too much into this post. And the reality of it is, this happens all the time all over the world. I don't think specific attention should be brought to a specific case. - |
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Date: 8/24/2004 8:22:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
Excuuuse me, but I didn't bash the war in Afghanistan. To go into Afghanistan WAS the right thing to do; I mean: HELLOOOO! That is where bin Laden, Al Quada were, and I believe that that is where the biggest effort SHOULD have been utilized, and all our resources available in order to find him and the terrorists who were responsible for 9/11. Bush and his co-horts had a plan to invade Iraq, and 9/11 just gave them the excuse; and they built up this humongous story about connections to Saddam, and the WMD bull, and set out to convince the American people that it was Saddam that was the "imminent threat", and everyone swallowed it hook line and sinker. I have not bashed anyone but BUSH and the crooks that did what they did in LYING and lying some more to justify the invasion. Carp and moan and groan all you want; defend Bush, and trash anyone who disagrees, but the FACTS are available to ALL to WANT to know them. Now, the reason for THIS post is to show what CAN, and DOES happen when there is a rule of the majority religion; when there is a theocracy. You may not see the connection; as many did not see it on 9/11 (all those terrorists were BELIEVERS in Islam, and were trained and taught that anyone who does not believe THEIR way is to be destroyed) , and quite possibly you can't see anyway that such things could happen here? Need I go and post scriptures from both the Bible and the Koran as to what is to be done with the infidels and non-believers? |
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Date: 8/24/2004 8:27:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
President Bush and the Republicans in the Senate have failed — (for the moment anyway) — to bring the Constitution into conformity with Judeo-Christian teachings. Now, even if they had passed a bill calling for a constitutional ban on gay marriage, that would have been only just a beginning. Leviticus 20:13 and the New Testament book of Romans reveal that the God of the Bible doesn't merely disapprove of homosexuality; he specifically says homosexuals should be killed: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death.". |
Date: 8/24/2004 8:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
I simply wonder at the lack of conscience. And all in the name of "religion" and "culture", makes me sick to my stomach, and I have a strong one. Good post Catherine. We must always raise "the conscience level" of others, TO the acts committed without any.  |
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Date: 8/24/2004 8:36:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
Whatever their importance to people of faith, ancient religious texts shouldn't form the basis of social policy and laws in the 21st century. Are the ancient mandates and teachings of the Bible and the Koran applicable to the challenges we now face as a global civilization? NO! The Koran 9:123 tells us it is the duty of every Muslim man to "make war on the infidels who dwell around you." Osama bin Laden may be despicable, but it is hard to argue that he isn't acting in accord with at least some of the teachings of the Koran. It is true that most Muslims seem inclined to ignore the Koran's solicitations to martyrdom and jihad, but we cannot overlook the fact that some are not so inclined and that some of them murder innocent people for religious reasons. The phrase "the war on terrorism" is a dangerous euphemism that obscures the true cause of our troubles, because we are currently at war with precisely a vision of life presented to Muslims in the Koran. |
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Date: 8/24/2004 8:42:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
I am sick of people saying "NOT ALL Christians" or "Not all Muslims".....yes, that is correct, but that is as far as these people will go in their thinking. They STOP right there; refusing to acknowledge that when ONE religion is allowed to dominate, rule, and call the shots......WE ALL LOSE! ALL of us lose our freedom, when goverment and religion (of any stripe) becomes enmeshed and when there are no checks; and no one is allowed to dissent; no one is allowed to criticise, and or hold leaders accoutable. |
Date: 8/24/2004 8:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 28767
That's sad. Peace Out..  |
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Date: 8/24/2004 8:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Humans do many things and use lots of excuses, but lack of conscience remains at the top of the list. Simply killing another human or hurting them, without any feeling, has only one name. HEARTLESS comes to mind. |
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Date: 8/24/2004 8:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Hurting someone, in any way, to further one's own agenda, is always the "human way". Man seems bent on never attempting or trying to understand or even "like" his or her fellow man. Makes me sick, because we all have to die, but dying because of someone's twisted way of thinking or lack of human caring is beyond me. Ideals are great, so long as they stay within a normal, educated, and structured society. The world is huge and we have grown here in America, and the freedoms we have, are so good. |
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Date: 8/25/2004 5:37:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
Brenda, you make some very good points as always. LACK of conscience is at the top of the list. I live in a state that voters came out in droves in the recent primary. What caused such a grand turnout? The gay marriage issue. A whopping 70.4 % of the people voted for a constitutional ban on gay marriage. 70.4 % !! The masses of people who tune into FOX "fair and balanced" TV for their daily lurid gossip fix and or wallow in chatter about the sex lives of candidates and everyone else, simply do not know that the bulk of Goverment functions AT ITS BEST when it provides the fundamentals of public well being in a quiet, efficient way, getting the job done by focusing on the unglamorous, non-glitzy, the often boring and tedious but utterly indispensable tasks, such as for example: making sure all of us have a clean, safe enviroment. Good police and fire protection; well maintained streets and infrastructure; and well-paid teachers and adequate teaching materials, supplies and all for our nations schools; as well as a ton of other MORE important and pressing issues as opposed to the lurid and salacious, the prejudicial and discriminatory. The current administration is counting on us, the voters, to be uninformed, in the dark and without conscience.....they are counting on us to be to darn stupid to figure out what is REALLY going on. |
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Date: 8/25/2004 7:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 62753
I was going to stay out of this, and not argue- because the real point here is that a a 16 year old girl has died, and we should all take a moment to think of her, and be happy that we live in a country where things like this do not happen! It does not mean we are right, and they are wrong, it is a difference in society, and we just happen to be lucky enough to have been born in a country like this one. It's sad, and it will continue..... but do we really have a right to tell another country what is right or wrong in thier country??? We don't take tips from other countries how to run ours but yet we are always in thier business..... I DONT SEE any of us going over to another country and rioting in the heat, and protesting, but yet we all sit over here in our air conditioned homes and complain about the actions other coutnries take ---- I for ONE will not sit here and try to comprehend why something like this was done, because my brain can not understand it ...... but I will say I am sorry that the 16 year old girl was not born into a country like mine, and that she suffered such a cruel death! |
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Date: 8/25/2004 9:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Thinker, I just want to say that I know how much this affects you SIMPLY because you care so much about Human Rights. I did a post similar a couple of years ago, and I won't forget that girl or her story either. She got 100 lashes and the three men who "used" her got nothing but their own gratification. I still wonder how well they sleep. What a good post! We can NOT ever NOT be affected by human rights or atrocities, in this country or any other. We simply can't. |
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Date: 8/25/2004 9:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Your voice, and your post bring these atrocities committed against other human beings even more into our society. Many countries want our aid, our money, and our alliance, only a strong voice sends a message they cannot ignore. Keep posting, because it DOES send a message and leads to other links where we can vote against or send a message to leaders of countries who continue to allow this. |
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Date: 8/25/2004 11:08:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
There's so many horrible stories and images over all the years that have been permanently, indelibly imprinted on my brain; that I will never forget. Remember that picture of that naked little Viet Namese girl running down the road with napalm burning her flesh off? The pictures of the massacre at Mai Lai? the women with burqua's on being executed in the soccer stadium in Afghanistan? And, you know what MANY of us find so darn IRONIC?: That many Americans would insist that dogmatic religious doctrine be such a critical part of a politician's belief system while other American's are dying while fighting other religious fanatics in Afghanistan and Iraq. It is so painful, so sickening, as to what is going on in Iraq. With even the best will; the most optimism in the world, one simply cannot pull a positive outlook out of this tragedy. WHAT. A. MESS. |
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Date: 8/26/2004 9:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
I still have a picture of an Iraqi child, in her mother's arms, very young. Extreme fear in her face and black smoke from our bombs billowing up around them. I keep it to remind why I hate this war so much, and it WAS printed on the front page of the Toledo Blade. That child's face will stay in my memeory for as long as I live. She was as young as my babies or younger. |
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Date: 8/26/2004 9:19:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
A humane perspective subordinates righteousness to human life. ‘A bad peace is better than a good war.’ Politics and morality are willing to sacrifice human life to nationalism and righteousness; they are warrior modes, fixed on winning. Bin Laden says Bush is the great deceiver; Bush says Bin Laden is the incarnation of terrorist evil. Both bomb. Both assert the same justification: we were attacked by the evil other, we are righteous in vengeance. Blood demands blood. Bin Laden’s appeal is “stop spilling our blood so we can stop spilling your blood.” Sharon’s is the same. This casts the moral hand against first blood. Who spilled first? Vengeance is seen as righteous self-defense or retribution. Bin Laden’s message is carefully crafted. He says all his attacks are reactions to others’ actions and so are just: Russians are killed for invading Afghanistan and Chechyna, Europeans are killed for invading Iraq and Afghanistan, Americans are killed for supporting Jews in Palestine and invading the Arab peninsula, and in Somalia they were killed after invading in a peacekeeping mission. The recurrent US linking of the Iraq invasion to 9/11 is the same argument: we were invaded and so are righteously vengeful. Invasion attack, not religious ideology, is the key, and religious ideology foments the righteousness. Bush first proudly argued we were on a Crusade; the Spanish terrorists spitefully referenced Spain’s old Crusading position. In the Islamic and Jewish views, the Christians are the bad guys in the Crusades. Muslims and Jews were invaded and slaughtered, a point the present Christian warriors don’t get. The political responses to Bin Laden’s message have been pro forma: ‘we don’t negotiate with terrorists.’ Leaders have sneered that he’s naively trying to drive a wedge between American and European allies. Leaders perform their bizarre public ballets making friendship over hatred of the common terrorist enemy, ignoring their serious disagreements over the Iraq invasion. When the Spanish electorate blamed their leaders for the Madrid attack and voted them out, other elected leaders reproached them for giving in to terrorism. But Europe popularly opposed the war in Iraq, even in the coalition countries Britain and Spain and Italy. Bin Laden is asserting he isn’t a mad dog killer but a righteous Muslim redresser of wrongs and if he’s left alone he’ll leave alone. He’s arguing he’s rational, a servant of Islamic vengeance. When the first bombs fell on Afghanistan in October 2001 he vowed “I swear to God that America will not live in peace before peace reigns in Palestine and before all the army of infidels depart the land of Muhammed, peace be upon him.” Osama bin Laden is of course a stateless mass murderer and he may not long be able to make offers people can’t refuse. But he poses real questions. “In which religion are your killed innocent and our specks of dust? In which sect is your blood (real) blood and ours, water? It is justice to be treated in the same way, and he who initiates injustice is more unjust.” He argues they are human and religious beings. He scapegoats war profiteers who benefit from war and bloodshed. He says they are ‘war traders and vampires who administer world politics from behind the curtain.’ Bin Laden is our enemy because he hates us (there’s no three month truce door for the US) and killed us. We have said he’s a mad dog cowardly monster, killing innocents and loving killing for the sake of killing. We have said he isn’t a real peace-loving Muslim but a jihadist war-loving fanatic. We have said he’s vicious because he doesn’t care if he kills innocents. We have also killed many innocents but we say we’re sorry and didn’t mean to where he says "see what it feels like". Bin Laden may not be hypocritical or sentimental like Sharon and Bush but he speaks the same language of righteous violence and vengeance: “Our actions are reactions to your actions that destroy and kill our people. . . .” INSANE. INSANE. WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER. WAR ONLY CAUSES MORE WAR, MORE HATRED, AND MORE TERRORISTS. |
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Date: 8/26/2004 9:22:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
^^^EXERPT from: http://www.counterpunch.com/christian05012004.html |
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Date: 8/26/2004 9:29:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
quote: "It is high time for us to cease imagining that we are merely "defending" ourselves against ubiquitous - and convenient - "barbarians at our gates." Let us instead open our eyes, and look upon those charred, mangled gates of Chile, Nicaragua, Indonesia, Vietnam, Palestine and now Iraq with an honest gaze. Let us angle away from the homes and bodies of the racial Other those torches we have been wielding so violently for decades, and instead aim them towards our own very real demons of racism and oppression to set them aflame; in their burning fires we may yet illuminate our own humanity and rediscover our innate connection with peoples abroad". http://www.counterpunch.com/alam04282004.html |
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Date: 8/27/2004 3:38:00 PM ( Admin-DNL )
This is really, really sad |
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Date: 8/27/2004 6:01:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
Brenda, All people seemly want to see, think about, or even want to KNOW about, are those few faces of children being given a chocolate bar by a passing Marine. Their minds shut down, and their voices are quick to dispel any presentation of the images of the bodies of children, women and or even the pictures of our own precious and brave young men who have died. Every single day, those faces OUGHT TO BE splattered across every single newspaper and television station.......every SINGLE DAY, but instead all we see are lying, twisted, nasty images of some scandal or slander about an opponent on the political scene. The sad, sickening fact is that even then, there are those who would make excuses, shrug it off, and would never stop believing in Bush. Some say only they would stop if a scandal broke that Bush had an affair with an intern; but I'm not so sure even of that. But it is easier to deal with those kinds of things than those much more deeper and weightier issues which require investigation and much more thought. I go to sites such as this one and stare at the FACE OF WAR. Slowly scroll down and let your self linger on EACH face.....each name......and imagine if it were your son....your husband...brother...father: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/ |
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Date: 8/27/2004 6:09:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
And FOR WHAT have all these people died!? FOR WHAT? And as far as ongoing deaths and dying.....Depleted Uranium seriously pollutes land and water and air, and causes genetic defomities in fetus' and has also been linked to 'Gulf War Syndrome'.....And yet Washington warhawks go on about Weapons of Mass Destruction? Such utterly insane hypocrisy. LOOK AT WHAT DEPLETED URANIUM HAS DONE! http://www.irak.pl/Stop/EXTREME%20BIRTH.html |
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