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Date: 7/22/2004 7:54:00 AM
From Authorid: 62401
"something the military says helps surgeons practice their skills." so when they go in for this stuff they know that they are practice...It is for practice... would you rather not have a doctor or officer in training NOT know what they are doing and screw up someones face? It is for practice. Think of all the stuff that the military does for your country. -Lindsay |
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Date: 7/22/2004 7:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 62401
RESEARCH MORE CHEST OUT, STOMACH IN ALL THAT YOU CAN BE Issue of 2004-07-26 Posted 2004-07-19 There has been a great deal of speculation recently that the government might reinstate the draft at some point, in order to replenish the nation’s armed forces. Military and government officials have, for the most part, dismissed such talk. As Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said in an interview the other day, “We’re perfectly capable of increasing the incentives and the inducements to attract people into the armed services.” For years, the military has offered its recruits free tuition, specialized training, and a host of other benefits to compensate for the tremendous sacrifices they are called upon to make. Lately, many of them have been taking advantage of another perk: free cosmetic surgery. “Anyone wearing a uniform is eligible,” Dr. Bob Lyons, the chief of plastic surgery at Brooke Army Medical Center, said recently, in his office in San Antonio. It is true: personnel in all four branches of the military and members of their immediate families can get face-lifts, nose jobs, breast enlargements, liposuction, or any other kind of elective cosmetic alteration, at taxpayer expense. (For breast enlargements, patients must supply their own implants.) There is no limit on the number of cosmetic surgeries one soldier can have, although, Lyons said, “we don’t do extreme makeovers in the military.” The commanding officer has to approve the time off for any soldier who is having surgery. For most procedures, there’s at least a ten-day recovery period, and while soldiers are recuperating they’re on paid medical leave rather than vacation. A Defense Department spokeswoman confirmed the existence of the plastic-surgery benefit. According to the Army, between 2000 and 2003 its doctors performed four hundred and ninety-six breast enlargements and a thousand three hundred and sixty-one liposuction surgeries on soldiers and their dependents. In the first three months of 2004, it performed sixty breast enhancements and two hundred and thirty-one liposuctions. Mario Moncada, an Army private who was recently treated for losing the vision in one eye in Iraq, said that he knows several female soldiers who have received free breast enlargements: “We’re out there risking our lives. We deserve benefits like that.” Janis Garcia, a former lieutenant commander and jag attorney in the Navy, who is married to a retired Navy fighter pilot, says she grew up hating the way she looked. “I wouldn’t even smile in my own wedding pictures.” She checked in to the Naval Medical Center in San Diego for a nose job, a chin realignment, and a jaw reconstruction, free of charge. She also had her teeth straightened. “It changed my appearance drastically, and I became a more confident person,” she said. “It literally changed the direction of my life.” The doctors told her the work she had done would have cost her nearly a hundred thousand dollars. It is hard to begrudge young servicemen and women access to free medical care or quick self-improvement, considering the acts of heroism they perform every day. Nonetheless, some taxpayers and members of the armed forces may feel that there are better uses for the nation’s resources. “I’m appalled the military would support liposuction,” Bill Fay, a captain in the Arizona Army National Guard, who is now serving in Nasiriyah, wrote in an e-mail. “This is a purely functional organization that does not exist for their livelihood or enjoyment.” The Army’s rationale is that, as a spokeswoman said, “the surgeons have to have someone to practice on.” “The benefit of offering elective cosmetic surgery to soldiers is more for the surgeon than for the patient,” Lyons said. “If there’s a happy soldier or sailor at the end of that operation, that’s an added benefit, but that’s not the reason we do it. We do it to maintain our skills”—skills that are critical, he added, when it comes to doing reconstructive surgery on soldiers who have been wounded. Some plastic surgeons question this logic. Dr. Shaun Parson, a prominent cosmetic surgeon in Arizona, says that cosmetic surgery and reconstructive surgery are two separate specialties. “If the Army is doing breast augmentations, it’s doing it to practice breast augmentations, period.” There has been talk lately among soldiers that this benefit is indeed being used as a recruiting tool, but there is no mention of it in any of the recruiting literature. “The Army does not offer elective cosmetic surgery to entice anyone,” Dr. Lyons said. “I would be disappointed with the maturity of the young women in this country if they’re joining the service with the thought of getting breast augmentations.” — Karen Schaler http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/?040726ta_talk_schaler |
Date: 7/22/2004 8:03:00 AM
From Authorid: 23796
I have mixed feelings about this...Yes, it may be tax payers money...but I don't see those tax payers willing to die for thier country either.  |
Date: 7/22/2004 8:03:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 6358
Yes I see your point but why should my taxpayer money pay for someone's nose job when there are people who medically need services but fall through the loop holes? Practice or not, if the surgeon is a qualified MD, they're still getting free nose jobs courtesy of you and me that are medically not necessary.  |
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Date: 7/22/2004 8:05:00 AM
From Authorid: 23796
BTW...Military men & women are Tax Payers too. |
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Date: 7/22/2004 8:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 62401
Well i hate that people fall through the "loop holes" Military insurance is different i suppose. So yo want to deprive everyone else of cosmetic surgery because some people cant get it? So, if someone isnt happy noone is happy? One line in that article stuck out... they are out there defending your country, putting their lives on the line, dont you think they deserve something? The doctors have to practice someway dont they? They have to have experience. I suppose that if this were civilian and a doctor in Hollywood was giving out free plastic surgery for "PRACTICE" this wouldnt be a problem? I love hearing people tell my husband that they appreciate everything that the military does for the country, that is great, but sometimes something more than a pat on the back is needed for moral building. -Lindsay |
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Date: 7/22/2004 8:24:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 6358
I'm not saying I don't appreciate what the military does for this country, but they joined it by choice, no one made them. By the way, I work in the medical industry and work with patients that are dying of organ failure, and leukemia and lymphoma that need bone marrow. Do you know what it's like to tell a patient they were denied funding for their transplant that will save their life because of government guidelines that are too strict and force them to fall through the loop holes and tell them they have to come up with a way to "find" $150,000 or else they will die, but Uncle Sam will pay for their neighbors nose job? So in a nutshell our government will willingly pay for a nose job that is not necessary but will deny someone an organ transplant that is desperately needed to save a life? |
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Date: 7/22/2004 8:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 62401
Do you know what its like to have your spouse tell you that they are going half way around the world for a year and they will only see you once in the entire year? I really do hate that people dont get the medical attention and stuff that they need, that sucks big time. And you are correct, no one made them join the military. but if they hadnt, where would be be? No freedom, no freedom of speech... we would be just as bad off as third world countries that we are trying to help. I assure you, there isnt someone sitting behind a desk somewhere saying "oh Sally doesnt need a new lung, Cindy really needs a new nose though!" The military isnt keeping those people from getting new lungs, hearts, whatever. Once again, this is practice surgery. It has to be done somehow and on someone... why not let it be beneficial? Why not make someones life better by helping them feel better about themself while they are in full chem gear in the middle of a desert somewhere? I agree it sucks about the people you see dying and there being nothing to do... but if someone CAN feel better, why not? -Lindsay |
Date: 7/22/2004 8:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 3835
Imagine a functional government (-:  |
Date: 7/22/2004 9:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 62401
I admit the military has its problems... i could go on and on about them  -Lindsay |
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Date: 7/22/2004 9:53:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 6358
I see your points but still don't agree, never will. The spouse going half-way around the world for the military was a choice, no one chooses to die of an organ transplant or leukemia and get denied by the government. Secondly, plastic surgery that is not necessary never HAS to be done. I can understand in cases of accidents or disfigurements, but I don't see someone getting their teeth bleached, a nose job, or a tummy tuck really worth tax-payer money when there are people that are much more in need on their death bed. |
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Date: 7/22/2004 9:56:00 AM
From Authorid: 62401
It is practice surgery! |
Date: 7/22/2004 10:35:00 AM
From Authorid: 13897
hmm.. this makes me think of the priorites of the gov't... or even of our culture! it's not just about money, either. i think it's sad that changing your body so drastically can be so easily obtained. can we not learn to love ourselves despite a large nose or small breasts? practice or not, it still costs money for someone. i wonder how much that costs and who is really paying for it. and you know what the irony is? plastic surgery in america started in WWI with the military.. for people who were in battle and lost a nose, part of their face, or some other piece of their body- of course they got that because it was the military's fault for their loses.. i doubt someone could pin it on the military for their big nose.. good post. this really made me think about the subject.  |
Date: 7/22/2004 10:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 10722
If they must serve with fake breasts then they should be payed with fake money.  |
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Date: 7/22/2004 10:42:00 AM
From Authorid: 13897
AND i think it is absolutely absurd that people should be asked to pay for a surgery to save their life! if another country was coming into USA fighting a war with us, does the gov't knock on our doors and tell us that if we just come up with $150,000 then they'll protect our home? no! that would be utterly ridiculous! we are supposed to be protected. that's why we pay taxes and obey laws and contribute to society. the gov't has funding for protecting us from outside dangers, but what about the dangers in our own bodies or in our environments? dangers that we can not take care of ourselves? that's how i see it. so to me, it makes no sense that we don't have more funding for health care. |
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Date: 7/22/2004 10:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 13897
haha Anomaly.. think they'd take Monopoly money? it comes in all kinds of colors! =) |
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Date: 7/22/2004 10:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 62401
whatever |
Date: 7/22/2004 11:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 15228
Lets stop and think about this. It says it is being done to keep up the surgeons skills. Why would a surgeon need those skills in the military? How many soldiers do you think need some kind of reconstruction surgery due to bombs going off near them? Plus, if it helps keep a surgeon from leaving the service, than I'm all for it. They need to keep their skills up in order to make it in the civillan sector. I don't think it is anything more complicated than that.  |
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Date: 7/22/2004 11:56:00 AM
From Authorid: 15228
Plus, I've been associated with the military for almost 20 years. I've known two woman who have had breast reduction surgery, and they had to go to civillan doctors for that, but I know of no one else who has had plastic surgery, so I don't think this is all that wide-spread. |
Date: 7/22/2004 12:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 62752
lol well the millitary will tell u any thing to get u in there liars, not that i dont respect my troops but 99% of ppl in there will tell u that KK  |
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Date: 7/22/2004 12:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 62752
oops military* |
Date: 7/22/2004 2:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 62367
I am against unnecessary plastic surgery as a military perk for either the service member or their dependents. There are times that plastic surgery is necessary but breast enlargements, no! Considering medical services to veterans, many of whom are elderly are being cut back, makes this reprehensible. Medical care should be provided for true medical problems, not this. Provide more funding for veterans services/hospitals before allowing this kind of elective surgery.  |
Date: 7/22/2004 2:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
It's a perk, an incentive to get people to join and to have the surgeons practice their skills. I don't know, free plastic surgery for putting your life on the line hmmm yeah I see the unfairness in that. They can always take this incentive and others away and just reinstate the draft, of course then you whiners won't be happy either.  |
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