Date: 3/3/2004 12:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 49374
I personally agree with you, me being bi myself..., but it's an issue that needs to be addressed I'm afraid in that everyone has their opinions on many different issues, whether it be gay marriage, censorship, education, environmental issues, you name it. Just another thing that'll be brought down by an authority figure, just as Iraq has started losing its edge in the U.S...interesting post   |
Date: 3/3/2004 12:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 45684
I am in full agreement with you. If you love someone..you should be able to express that love in anyway. Same sex relationships are not the makings of second class citizens. People who think so are, IN MY OPINION, small minded.  |
Date: 3/3/2004 1:00:00 AM
From Authorid: 53052
i dont see how someone can tell another how to live without walking a mile in thier shoes! it's always ends up being the same people in the debates and i'm a touch frustrated with them, i commented on one of them that if the law passes or doesnt the gay community isnt going to just toss thier arms up in the air and give up and go straight they will still be there  |
Date: 3/3/2004 2:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 7672
Come over to our country ! Gay people can be wed for the law under the same circumstances as straight people. Good post !  |
Date: 3/3/2004 3:30:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Belgian, unfortunately America will have to go through it's dark ages, just as Europe did some centuries ago. We are already so far behind other countries in so many ways, and this issue is just one of them.  |
Date: 3/3/2004 3:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 1799
i completely agree with you... i think people are just being cruel..  |
Date: 3/3/2004 4:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 32133
hahaha.....i havent seen many anti-gay replies to this post. this is nothing but a pitty post.....incase you didnt realize it most people are on your side anyway so stop trying to get them to feel sorry for you. just because your gay doesnt make you anyless perverted and it doesnt make you any less human. people have put these posts up before complaining about how there gay and there tired of getting bashed.....well you know what as long as people keep putting up these completely worthless posts to make people feel sorry for them im not changing my mind about marrige being defined as a man and a women.  |
Date: 3/3/2004 4:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 61811
Well, the way I look at it, people are just stupid. We are all so stuborn, or we're the people who change their minds because someone doesn't agree with you. If you wanna go marry your woman, go ahead! Guess what? It's against either the Constitution or Bill of Rights or Ammendments to not allow same sex marriages. I forget which but it IS AGAINST IT! I just had to read about it. Wait, i think it's a state law. Yeah. The gov. can't do anything to the nation.  |
Date: 3/3/2004 4:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 44960
Its amazing just how closed-minded society can be. I'm a transsexual, and I deal with society on a daily basis. I am always in aww at thier judgemental an ignorant ways. Society is one huge peanut gallery. Their stomach's are not full of peanuts, they are full of pre-conceived beliefs and find it necessary to force their judgemental ways on others. Little do they know, when they pass judgement on others, then they have just judged themselves. You want to call me a pervert? Step over to the nearest mirror and take a good look yourself when you say it. If we are all created in His image, then that mirror does'nt lie, does it? Have a nice day.  |
Date: 3/3/2004 5:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 60052
I say to you, Rock On! Stand up, fight for yourself, and don't listen to the other idiots who think they need to bring others down to make themselves feel superior. I think a person's sexual orientation should not be brought into a discussion of legal marriages.  |
Date: 3/3/2004 6:28:00 AM
From Authorid: 1432
I'm tired of them.. and also seeing stuff on that Christ movie lol.  |
Date: 3/3/2004 6:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Just be thankful you're not a christian.  |
Date: 3/3/2004 7:10:00 AM
From Authorid: 43807
YAY. you go Girl!!!  |
Date: 3/3/2004 7:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 37449
Yup, Everyone has their own opinion, and some people here think they can change other peoples. Some other USMers think will harp down the throat of anyone who has a different opinion. I am sick of it, everyone has their own opinion, just leave it like that!  |
Date: 3/3/2004 7:36:00 AM
From Authorid: 15228
I'm pretty much sick of it to..being lectured on being "prejudiced" gets a little annoying and actually, it is gays who have brought this all out (no pun intended)..so if you are wondering why in the world G.W. is weighing in on it..might be because Gays have decided to shove it done everyone's throats. And Kerry is against gay marriage to by the by. There are so many more important things going on in the world..this cartoon pretty much sums it all up for me http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000290.html  |
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Date: 3/3/2004 7:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 15228
I would like to add...I'm back and forth on the issue myself..one day I think what's the problem with it?? Next day I think the opposite. |
Date: 3/3/2004 8:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 22370
I agree with you...why can't people leave other people alone and just let them be happy? Why is it so important for people to make other ones live by THEIR standards?! Its their life, let them live it the way they want and let them be happy. You don't see homosexual couples trying to interfere with straight couples, do you? NO! That's because they want the same rights, rights that they were entitled to when they were born!  |
Date: 3/3/2004 9:37:00 AM
From Authorid: 19613
I am probably one of the more vocal people in these debates, but must admit i am tired of them also. nobody will ever change their mind (and i think i've made an enemy in Melodious).  |
Date: 3/3/2004 10:34:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 51635
Systym44, I didn't make this post to get people to "feel sorry" for me, I posted this in response to all of the debates on this subject lately... I personally don't care what others think of me, thats why I'm not sitting a closet some where... I'm just tired of the same old arguments with the same old reasoning...  |
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Date: 3/3/2004 10:40:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 51635
Also I think the lack of negitive responses is due to the fact that I said "Now, if you have something to say that doesn't involve God or animals or people with blood realations, have at it"... without bringing those things in to it, people don't have much to say against it... |
Date: 3/3/2004 1:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 27558
I am just plane tired of hearing about Gay Marriages, I'm not gay, but I'm not gonna say hey they are gay they shouldn't be allowed to marry, its everyones free will to be the way they want to be, gay marriages aren't unconstitutional if you read between they lines in the Amendments as well as the Constitution I see nothing that says "Gay marriages are bad and shouldn't be allowed" Good Post Live the way you want to. With all do respect,  |
Date: 3/3/2004 1:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 13729
LOL.....Great post!....I say live and let live....If your with someone you love or like, and your not hurting anyone else,....who should care.......  |
Date: 3/3/2004 2:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
IMZP, I did respond to your post but my comment was deleted, so I will try again.. There are many posts going up on the subject of gay marraiges, but this is to be expected since the gay marriage issue has become so publicized. Regardless, Not ALL of us believe the reports of some researchers and some psychologists. There are many researchers who do not agree with those who report that homosexuals are born that way. As long as there is doubt, we ALL have the right to choose whom we believe, those who are for or those who are against. If I choose to believe those who are against, then I am simply exercising my rights and by doing so, it does not indicate that I am being ignorant, stupid, a bigot, a discriminator, nor intolerant. Unless/Until there is absolute proof, I still find the word "sodomy" listed in my dictionary and sodomy is defined as "Any of various forms of sexual intercourse held to be unnatural or abnormal, especially anal intercourse or bestiality" and those who participate in such things do not deserve equal rights to marry. Perhaps those who are homosexuals should start at point one and fight to change the definition of sodomy as it is listed in our dictionaries.  |
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Date: 3/3/2004 2:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
we write the definitions Rusure, definitions define how some people about things, not necessarily how things really are. As for homosexuality beiong a choice or not, you are right in everything you say. i still believe though, that logic would indicate homosexuality is not a choice, as i have never met one who said it was. just my opinion |
Date: 3/3/2004 3:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Dark Phoenix, So what you are saying is that we can change what words mean to accomodate a society. In other words, in the future, the word incest may not mean "Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom" if enough people do not want that word to be defined as so? I could get use to that 'logic' of.."If the existing definition hit's home then change the definition of the word" ..You choose to believe that homosexuality is not a choice, and I choose to believe the opposite. That IS our right. Attempting to force an issue on others when there is no absolute proof, that IS going beyond our rights
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Date: 3/3/2004 3:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 58078
Great post...well said. Unfortunately people are still going to be critical towards things. This will never be a perfect world and people will always complain or not agree with something. System, this is far from a pity post. If people were constantly coming down on something you are or something you believe, you two just might do a post to set some things right from your point of view being you are in that situation thats constantly discussed.  |
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Date: 3/3/2004 4:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Kelly, if you will check a little further into Kerry, you will find he does favor civil unions, and is totally against the FMA. Rusure, the number of professionals who say homosexuality is not a born trait are few. Why not go out and ask 100 gays if they chose to be gay? Most will tell you why in the world would anyone choose to be gay when they are faced with the prejudice and bias that society puts on them. |
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Date: 3/3/2004 4:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 32133
people are not born gay! so are you going to say tom hanks was born an actor? or jimi hendrix was born a guitar player? no they got that way over time just like you did. |
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Date: 3/3/2004 4:39:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 51635
So Systym44 were you born straight or did you just get that way over time?... |
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Date: 3/3/2004 6:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
System44, your ignorance is showing. As anyone will tell you, I am not gay. However, I do gather research information for several LGBT groups, and also write articles based on that research. |
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Date: 3/3/2004 8:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
TS, You stated, "why in the world would anyone choose to be gay when they are faced with the prejudice and bias that society puts on them." ..Tell me this..Why would a serial killer, a thief, a child molester, etc, choose to be who they are when they all know very well that they must face the consequences that society puts on them?" They all are very aware that society will not accept them but that doesn't stop them..And, NO, I am not saying that homosexuals are criminals. TS, Because I do not agree that homosexuals are born that way, according to you, does that mean that I am prejudice and bias because of what I believe? It does appear that if anyone disagrees with the cause of homosexuality, then they are accused of being prejudice, ignorant, and intolerant. I am not ignorant of the subject, and I am not guilty of having adverse judgments nor opinions which are formed without examining the facts. I have looked into the subject of homosexuality, but as I said before, I simply do not agree with what some has put forth as facts. However, I am in a sense, intolerant, in that I fight against homosexuality and I believe it to be a detriment to mankind and society. Regardless, What makes your case more right than mine? |
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Date: 3/4/2004 4:05:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Rusure, it is often said that a person will not understand until they have a walked a mile in another person's shoes. For those of us who are LGBT, that statement is very true. You know, there are still people here in America that believe we never walked on the moon, that it was all a conspiracy. Human sexuality is not exactly a cutting edge field of study. Therefore, there is not a lot of funding out there that goes into it. You choose to believe what the desenters doing the studies say, while I choose to believe what the proponents say. Why do I do that? Because I have talked to enough gays and lesbians in my life to understand that these people had these feelings for almost there whole life. Also, being transgender, I have looked into a lot of studies that most people do not even consider being tied to homosexuality, but actually are. In a court of law, a person is found guilty or innocent based on a preponderance of the evidence. Based on all the evidence that I have seen, especially in the past 5 to 8 years, then the evidence weighs extremely heavy that gays are indeed born that way. To state otherwise would be like sentencing a man to the death penalty, even though evidence shows he never comitted a crime. I will make one comment, and it may tick some people off, but it is probably the truth. I see a lot of people who say they are ant-gay that also say they have studied the research that has been done on the subject. The truth is that they usually have not, but only read an occasional article on the subject. Religous conservative wewbsites are full of such articles, including biased research information, and even information that is an outright lie. I know, because I am a member on many of those sites, and read every research article they print. I also read the research that has been done not only here in America, but elsewhere in the world. Rusure, to be honest, yes, you are prejudiced, as are many others, because you refuse to accept what the preponderance of the evidence shows. |
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Date: 3/4/2004 7:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 19613
my only point rusure was that definitions work both ways. you gave an example of the incest thing, but you could have cases at the opposite end of the spectrum, for instance, i know that many dictionaries had racist definitions before it became politically incorrect in the last century. |
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Date: 3/5/2004 3:10:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
TS, You stated "I see a lot of people who say they are anti-gay that also say they have studied the research that has been done on the subject. The truth is that they usually have not, but only read an occasional article on the subject." ..I would like to say that since you are on the other side of a computer and do not know me personally, you are in no position to assume that I may be one of those people who say they have studied a subject but only have read an occasional article on the subject. There would be no way you could know what I have or have not done unless I made it know to you. Though I have read a few articles on a religious website, I do not base my conclusions on such sites. TS, I do think you assume too much..You also stated " yes, you are prejudiced, as are many others, because you refuse to accept what the preponderance of the evidence shows."..Again you are assuming too much. You claim there is an overwhelming amount of evidence for the cause of homosexuality. I would like to share the following with you... |
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Date: 3/5/2004 3:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
In July of 1993, gay gene researcher Dean Hamer was asked by Scientific American if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology. He replied, "Absolutely not. From twin studies, we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited. Our studies try to pinpoint the genetic factors..not negate the psychosocial factors.".. Time and time again, scientists have claimed that particular genes or chromosomal regions are associated with behavioral traits, only to withdraw their findings when they were not repeated. Yale's Dr. Joel Gelernter, says "Unfortunately, it's hard to come up with many findings linking specific genes to complex human behaviors that have been replicated."...TS, these gay gene researchers whom I mentioned are a couple of the top in their field..I do believe that we both understand that we cannot come to an accurate conclusion if we study the genetic factors only and not consider the psychosocial factors. |
Date: 3/5/2004 3:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
There is much to be considered as to the cause of homosexuality and I have read much of what the researchers have come up with, and I have had discussions with some very close family members and close aquaintances, and friends, but I simply disagree with what some claim. I am especially cautious as to what the news reporters have to say. The media reports are not always accurate in what they report..For example, On October 23, 2003 a new study conducted at the UCLA School of Medicine on the developmental differences between the male and female brains of mice was published by news reporters as evidence that sexual orientation is hard-wired into the human brain before birth. A reporter from Reuters titled his article, "Sexual identity Hard-Wired by Genetics." The reporter opened his article with the following statement, "Sexual identity is wired into the genes, which discounts the concept that homosexuality and transgender sexuality are a choice, California researchers said on Monday." ..Warren Throckmorton, Director of College Counseling and an Associate Professor of Psychology at Grove City College disagreed. He stated, "All this study really suggests is that genes may play a role in creating the differences in male and female brains. This is not news; researchers have known this for a long time. However, the study has nothing to do with the formation of sexual orientation. He also expressed his frustration at the misleading and inacccurate news reports. "No wonder the public is confused about this issue. The reporting has made inferences that are not at all warranted by the study itself. The actual claims of the researchers were considerably more modest than the newswriters' headlines suggested."...Lead researcher Dr. Eric Vilain stated, "This was not about finding the gay gene. The team was actually studying the factors that cause the masculinization and feminization of the brain, and did not look for factors that influence sexual orientation."..Vilain went on to say "The study's findings will have their most immediate impact upon understanding transsexualism, not homosexuality. However, it is possible that some of these genes, with more research, could explain homosexual behavior." ..Dr Vilain added, "IF such a homosexual gene someday be found, homosexuals should have all the rights to be integrated into society and have the same rights as heterosexuals in terms of marriage and the rights to inheritance."..TS, As you can see..Not all researchers claim to have found absolute proof as to the cause of homosexuality. Unless/Until they do then there is no preponderance of evidence.
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Date: 3/5/2004 4:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Rusure, I have a file drawer full of research information. A lot of that information was gathered by me. It was added to research information that was gathered by several people before me over a period 24 years. Much of it deals with transsexualism, but a lot of it also deals with homosexualism. Some of the research on transsexualism also gives further insight into homosexualism. Everyone keeps asking for specific genes, yet the research into transsexualism has shown that it goes even further than that. Genetically, I am a male. Yet psychological testing has proven that I do have the mental faculties of a female. That may be one reason I am able to do things that a man could normally do, not with brute force but with the finesse and precision that only a woman can do it. Also, even though I worked out regularly while in the military, I never developed the muscle mass common to most men. I was told that this is possibly due to the hormonal effect on my body during my mother's pregnancy. The answer does not necessarily lay fully in the brain,but have a lot to do with what goes on the womb. Until medical science has a full grasp of genetics and chromosonal influence, there will be no definite answers. Once they do that, there may also be a lot fewer terminal diseases that people have to deal with. |
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Date: 3/5/2004 9:56:00 AM
From Authorid: 19613
i saw an interesting program on discovery where they messed around with some baby mice in the womb, and when they were born, they basically behaved as homosexuals. not that this is conclusive proof of anything, just interesting. To turn to the religion side of it, i can see that if it were proven that one is born with a sexual orientation, this would surely create a conflict with those who believe it is a sin, unless you believe in predestinaiton i suppose. |
Date: 3/13/2004 7:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 53961
IMNSHO - I am SO tired of ALL the debates and there's way too many to list! People, in general, just need to take care of their own "backyards" and let everyone get on with there perspective lives - HOWEVER they chooses to live it - as long as it doesn't hurt children. Their tiny voices are the ones who are least heard in most debates, be it abortion or spraying the crops. We need to listen to our future generation, and pray to God we still have one that can laugh and play without the worry of condemnation or abuse by ANY means!  |
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Date: 3/13/2004 7:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 53961
And a word about being shunned - I understand it perfectly well, as I have lived it the majority of my life. When I was young as a child of an active duty military father who was just doing his job while being criticized by the anti-war groups, to my adult life when I made the choice to become a Mormon. You would be amazed at the number of people that avoid you like the plague if you "come out" that you are a Mormon. All I can say is, it was the best decison I ever made for myself and my children and it did not hurt them one bit. If nothing else, it gave them a sense of emphathy for the plights of others who feel rejected by the norm of society. |
Date: 8/8/2005 7:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 16376
I believe in live and let live. I feel that in the future gay marriages will be just as common as straight ones, I feel it should be that way now though but it looks like we have a ways to go.  |
