Date: 3/2/2004 6:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
The problem is that there are those who feel they have a moral right to tell others how to live. Some can not keep their own lives in order, yet they wish to force their ideals on others in the belief it will make their life better. One day this country will wake up and realize that it is no longer the guide by which the world turns, and it is years behind other countries on many things, including civil rights.  |
Date: 3/2/2004 6:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 55386
It isn't our business...but people try to make it. It really is none of our business who anyone marries, who anyone loves...it's not our life. I'm for gay marriages. If it makes them happy, I'm happy for them! I just hate how religion and bias opions and racism are starting to rule the US. I myself am a Canadian, but the way the US is, it's just scaring me to think that Canada might turn out like that too.  |
Date: 3/2/2004 6:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 6860
It's none of my business to judge who people love. I know that I'd be angry if someone questioned and judged me because of the person that I loved. We all need to stop putting our noses into places that it doesn't belong.  |
Date: 3/2/2004 6:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
Pursuit of happiness can be defined in lots of ways. Are you saying EVERYONE should be allowed the pursuit of happiness, regardless of who that makes unhappy? Some peoples happiness causes other unhappiness. Just WHERE do we draw the line?  |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Moonpriestess, if someone is not happy because of what someone else does in their own home, or because of who someone else loves and wants to live their life with, then maybe that person should look at their own life instead of the life of others. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
This has gone beyond peoples "own home" and into EVERYONES home. |
Date: 3/2/2004 6:29:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 55009
if you have so much free time to be concerned with others personal affairs maybe you should look over your own life a couple times because i am sure there are some things people are unhappy about what you do yet they hold their tongues  |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 55009
it has only gone out of their homes because of people who made it their business without permission... |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
Where and when did I say that I was unhappy? You people assume alot. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
No Joshie, sorry you are misinformed, it was brought into everyones home, willingly. You need to have your facts straight. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 55386
How is getting married to someone you love apart of everyone's home? |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
I couldnt give a flip less about homosexual relationships a month ago. Now that it is everywhere I turn, I feel like I HAVE to choose sides and that wasnt because I went looking for the topic. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
Because I am sitting here talking about something that doesnt concern me for the most part because it has been shoved down my throat, GA. |
Date: 3/2/2004 6:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
Posting on the news, which is shown in all of our homes, posting it on here brings it into our homes, reading about it in newspapers brings it into our homes. There's no way around it, it is being shoved into our faces, whether we like it our not.
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:34:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 55009
it was just a general statement not focused specifically on you Moonpriestess sorry for any missunderstanding about that... |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Moonpriestess, it was in fact unfair laws ad practices against gays and lesbians that caused most to come out and openly admit who they were. Who were the people who practiced theseunfair practices and passed biased laws? The conservative right. If you look closely at your televison, there is far more violence and sex involving heterosexuals on televison and in the news than there will ever be such for gays and lesbians, and this has been the trend for years. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
Well, I don't watch tv. I don't read the newspapers, and I avoid most posts about gays on here. Why? Because I'm homophobic? No, because its something I REALLY don't care to hear about, nor have around my son. BUT, as Gina said, its getting to the point where you CAN'T avoid the topic, because its getting shoved in our faces, no matter which way you turn, sorta reminds me of the O.J. trial. You were GONNA hear what happened that day, whether you wanted to, or not. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Well Crash, if you don't like it, change the channel. I am sure that is what your parents did when something came on they felt you shouldn;t see. Other than that, what any of us do is none of your business. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Answer me one question Crash. What are you going to do if your son comes up one day and tells you he is gay. Don't pretend it cannot happen, because I have seen it happen twice in my mother's family, when everyone thought it would never happen. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
Well, last time I checked, since I don't watch tv, I wouldn't have a channel to change. What any of us do is none of your business? Well, when its shoved into my face every time I turn around, its not ME who's making it my business! I know several gay people, and what they do when I'm not around, doesn't concern me in the slightest, but when its shoved into my face, then I have the right to my opinion, just like everyone is ranting that they should have. So, make up your mind, do we have "Freedom of Speech" or does that only apply if I agree with the loudest "repressed minority" at the time? |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
If my son came up, and told me he was gay, then I would love him in the future just as much as I love him now (he's 4) BUT, that does NOT mean, that I expect people to look at him and say "well, he's gay, let's give him special considerations that we aren't giving other people" |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
I have a four year old son as well and I have thought "what would I do if he was gay". My conclusion is that I would feel terrible that he had decided to live such a hard life, because being gay in our society isnt easy. Would I love him? Yes. Would I tell him that he "chose" that path and he would have to take the hardships along with it? Yes, I would. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
That's right, we do have freedom of speech. Therefore, the gays and lesbians do have every right to put on television, billboards, radio, and any other public place, what they will. The fact is though, nothing comes into your home that you do not wish to come there. And what gays and lesbians wish to do together is no one business. The fact is, I see more disgusting things from heterosexual couples on the streets than I have ever seen from gays and lesbians. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
You obviously havent been to Bourbon Street on Halloween....... |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
But, another point is, every person in this country has the same rights. There is NOWHERE in the Constitution, nor in any other document, that says "if any part of your race, creed, color, or lifestyle is different from anyone elses, we will give you special rights and privileges above others" NOWHERE. ANd when the vast majority of the country chooses NOT to, then a minority wants to scream that their "rights" are being repressed. So tell me, what "right" is being suppressed, that everyone else in the country has? NONE. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
No, when I can't turn on any form of mass media, without hearing about it, then it is infringing on MY right, to have the freedom NOT to hear about it. I should not have to avoid tv, internet, newspapers, magazines, or any other form of mass media, to get away from it. When it gets to that point, it is infringing on MY rights. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 55386
I don't see what special rights are given out. To me I just think that they should marry who they want, regarding what they look like, feel like, or believe in. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
Well, this is somewhat parallel to "God" being removed from everything, other than churches. Some people did not want something they did not believe in/accept, whatever, pushed in their faces. They fought for the right to NOT to have to see a reference to God. Well, we are fighting for the right NOT to have to hear about gay marriages. If 2 men, or 2 women want to live together, more power to them. I just don't want to hear about it. Keep what goes on behind closed doors off of my tv, out of my newspapers, and off of my internet. Will it all go away? No. I don't expect it to. BUT, I should be able to live my life, without it brought up every where I turn. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
The television, computer, and radio may be yours, but the media transmitted across it is for public use, therefore it is not yours. I didn't like reading and hearing about Judge Roy Moore and all his supporters who made themselves at home in my hometown during his 10 Commandments battle. I tolerated it though. Maybe you should look up the word tolerance, and try practicing it sometime. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
As for everyone having the same rights, that is not so. When was the last time you were kicked out of housing because it was found out you were heterosexual? When was the last time you were refused employment because someone came up and said you were heterosexual? For you that is not a worry. For gays and lesbians it is, but that is a whole other deabte in itself. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
Well, I bet in the south if I went up to people and said that I practiced Shamanism, I would be discriminated against as well. Guess what, I am VERY selective in who I tell that to, because I KNOW how people are. Thats just life. People will draw their own conclusions and you will not change that. |
Date: 3/2/2004 7:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
Roy Moore? Never heard of him. And you want to talk about disriminating? Try being one of the only guys within a 200 mile radius, that has long hair. I've lost my fair share of jobs due to my hair. However, I choose to have my hair the length I have, and cannot blame other people for not liking it. I don't scream, rant, rave, and start a big political debate because of it, I accept it, and move on. Try it sometimes.
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Crash, a lot of the guys I work with have long hair, and are all within 200 miles of you. Maybe it is not the long hair that is the reason they don't hire you. Heck, I get job offers all the time and my hair is halfway down my back. Moonpriestess, here in the South, we do not care what religion a person practices, as long as it is legal. I know wiccans, native spiritualists, aetheists, agnostics, and devil woreshippers. As long as they keep it legal, most do not care. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
By the way, if you do not know who Judge Roy Moore is, then you are several years behind the times. He is the Ten Commandments judge from Alabama, and the one who wrote in a decison that homosexuals should be locked in prison, and even put to death. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
Tell that to the people I work with who pray to Jesus everyday before work, TS. I KNOW better, maybe in the larger areas, but not in the small towns. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
MP, they don't get much smaller than where I live. Trust me, folks down here don't care what your religous practices. It bothered some of them a little when they learned MsPriss was transsexual, but they got over it. Shammanism is nothing new on these parts. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
TS, I have lived here for a year and I KNOW the reactions of people and its not "oh, really? How neat." It is "Does that mean you worship satan?" |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
well, where *I* live at, I am one of about 5 guys, if that, that have long hair. And no, I am more than qualified for 99% of the jobs I apply for. Funny how when, after I talk to the one in charge, and they get past the hair, I generally get the job. Again, oh well. My hair is my choice, and its not going to change around here, any time soon. Wishful thinking? Perhaps, but I also know that somethings people don't want to change, and shouldn't be shoved down their throat, whether they like it or not. *shrugs* |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Nobody is asking you to change your mind concerning gays and lesbians. All they are asking is to be treated equeally. Every time I turn on the television, I see drugs, sex, violence, killing, and other criminal activity, and this is just in the news. I don't like, but I live with it. Too bad others can't learn to live with it. MP, people will question what they do not understand wherever you go. People have questioned me about transgenderism. Often times it is because they do not understand it, or have misconceptions about it. Don't think of it as them being against you, but take it as a chance to educate them. |
Date: 3/2/2004 7:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 19092
Right now, what bugs me the most about this, is that City Hall in San Francisco has disrespected State Law. They have sent a message that if you do not agree with the law, ignore it and violate it, at will, without consequence. And the many couples that have participated in this action have placed themselves "above" the law without consequence. Instead of honoring the law and using proper channels to "change" the law, they have all decided to violate the law. What kind of a message does this send?? So, if there are laws I do not agree with, can I freely violate them without consequence?? Maybe....if I were gay. But I'm not, and I'll bet I'd find myself behind bars...  |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
The point is, around here, I choose to be "different". In other cities, other places, people wouldn't look at me twice. Around here, they do. But, since *I* choose to be "different" and not to conform what other people want, I have to epect people not to like it. However, that does not mean that because of 5 guys in this area, that they should welcome every guy with long hair in, and accept them. The world cannot expect everyone to take into consideration every group that decides to be different, and to make special rules and laws concerning them, especially if being in that group is a conscious choice. I chose to have my hair long, I deal with the consequences. People choose to be gay, they deal with the consequences. And no, I'm not referring to people beating the crap out of them for it, or anything like that, by any means. But people are going to be prejudiced, and unfortuntely, that will probably never change. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Crash, understand something, you having long hair is a choice, but people do not wake up one morning and say, "Hey, I think I will be gay". They are born that way. Who should know better than those who know for a fact that they have been gay their whole lives. |
Date: 3/2/2004 7:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 10344
I think i'll start spaming the board with my hetrosexual beliefs and how everyone should agree with them. I'm also sick of the term "alternative lifestyle"...beastiality would also be an "alternative lifestyle".....this doesn't mean anyone should have to except it because you wish to practice it. But frankly, I don't care what gay's do, as long as I don't have to hear about it 65 times a day. Homosexuals are starting to sound just like the religious groups who try to cram thier point of view down your throat at every turn.  |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
I agree, RT. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
KC, San Francisco has in fact gone deeper into that state's constitution and found laws that say not to allow marriage to gays is illegal. A lot of states have catch alls in their constitutions, and the people of San Francisco found one, and now are using it. |
Date: 3/2/2004 8:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
Sure, why not? Lawyers have been using loopholes to better our society for years..look at O.J. and many other criminals walking around today. |
Date: 3/2/2004 8:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 30477
I absolutely agree. I'm totally okay with those darn blacks living in our country, just as long as they know their place. But when they start trying to go to our schools and live in our neighborhoods - well that just makes me all uncomfortable! They don't have to shove their viewpoints in our faces all the time; I don't want my children to be exposed to that. And if they're unhappy with being marginalized and denied equal rights, well then it's their own fault for choosing to be black!  |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
Nope, black is just a color, homosexuality is a bedroom activity. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 30477
If laws written into the California state constitution predate a recently added precedent that restricts a civil right, it's not a loophole. It's a precedent. |
Date: 3/2/2004 8:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 62100
The point is though, that had homosexuals been treated with equal rights to begin with, and had they not been told that they CAN'T get married..chances are that you wouldn't be hearing about it everywhere you turn..but that couldn't be because people can't just be tolerant of differences and live and let live, they have to challenge the rights of people difeerent than themselves, and use religion to justify it. Don't throw out the old.."pastors/priests shouldn't be required to perform ceremonies they don't agree with due to their religious beliefs" hoopla either..it's not REQUIRED that one marry in a church for the marriage to be legal..  |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 30477
Calling homosexuality a "bedroom activity" is almost as disgusting and misinformed as calling it an "alternative lifestlye." It is a life. Why are heterosexuals so unwilling to accept the notion that sexual orientation determines the gender of the person you LOVE, not just the type of people you like to sleep with. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
That argument doesnt work on me Xylanthia, I dont rely on religion to back me up. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 30477
Why do you oppose gay marriage then, MP? |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Thank you Xylanthia. MP, there are homosexuals out there that are sexually abstinent. A person is born homosexual, just as I was born transsexual. A person does not choose to be homosexual. They do choose to act based on who they truly are. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
Because I DONT go around telling people that I am HETEROSEXUAL, because that means I am telling them what my BEDROOM ACTIVITIES are. Why do homosexuals feel SUCH an overpowering NEED to tell everyone their bedroom activities??? Most people DONT CARE! Fine, you want to love and be happy with the opposite sex, go for it, I dont want to hear about it. You want to love and be happy with the same sex, go for it but I dont want to hear about that either. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 30477
Besides the fact that you've completely ignored Two Spirit's very important point, you're missing the bigger picture entirely, MP. I would greatly prefer to take gay marriage debates off the front page and stop making all the poor heterosexuals squirm. I would greatly prefer to coexist in equality, but until we are granted the rights we deserve, we're not simply going to shut up and step back into the shadows (or closets) and accept the position of second-class citezens. |
Date: 3/2/2004 8:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Jeff, your comments made me think back to the Civil Rights battles of the 60s. Such were the thoughts of many where I lived in Montgomery. Today, many of those who once spoke that way now live in mixed neighborhoods, their kids attend schools with kids of various races and national origins, and they even attend church together. The civil rights battles are still being fought though. Only today, the battlegorund is a new one. One day, the words of Martin Luther King will ring true; "And when we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and hamlet, from every state and city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children - black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Catholics and Protestants - will be able to join hands and to sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last, free at last; thank God Almighty, we are free at last."
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
LMAO!! You mean until everyone tells you that its okay with them if your gay, dont you. You dont want to be treated differently except by those who have a problem with the lifestyle. That isnt going to happen.
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
I dont think the good MLK was talking about homosexuality.... |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
MP, when was the last time you heard a homosexual tell you what they did in their bedroom? I know quite a few gays, lesbians, and transgendered people. In fact, I run a discussion website for the LGBT in Alabama. Few, if any, ever talk about what goes on in their bedrooms. They are more concerned with issues than they are with bedroom activities. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 16442
You know I wondered what people meant when they said that they were being called everything under the sun on USM for opposing this issue, now I understand. I have lost my composure and it is time for me to step away for the night. I may be back to this post, I may not. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
MP, having heard MLK speak, he spoke of freedom for all people. I, myself, am not homosexual, but transsexual. Personally, I could care less if anyone is OK with it. They don't have to be. I will not be treated as a second rate citizen or outcast because of who or what I am though. I will not stand idly by and let someone threaten my freedoms or rights. If people don't like who I am, then they need to see someone about their problem. Many gays and lesbians feel the same way. |
Date: 3/2/2004 8:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 30477
MP - Again, you've ignored my very clear opinion and perverted my statement to serve your own purpose. I do not expect or want special rights or validation. I want EQUAL rights. I want the legal right to marry - the legal right to pursue my happiness, just like everyone else. Beyond that, I don't care a bit whether or not anyone thinks my life (again, not "lifestyle," but LIFE) is moral.
Two Spirits - It is encouraging to think that, in several decades, people will look back on the gay marriage debate and lament that we were so behind the times. Thanks for the King quote - a true inspiration |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
MP, no one had called you anything. You decided to step into the debate, no one forced you. For you, this may be just be an issue on how you feel. For some of us, this is an issue that can effect our very lives and the way we live them. Myself, I will fight for any person's right to be the person they are, and do what they wish, as long as it brings no harm to another. More than that, I will fight for my own rights, and have been doing so for some time now, and will continue to do so. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 8:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 19092
And another thing, it's not "The Government" invading the bedrooms of gay people. They've taken their bedrooms and invaded the public square. I've yet to see a Heterosexual Pride March... |
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Date: 3/2/2004 9:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 30477
Caspian, at the risk of coming off as a typical, self-victimizing minority, I submit that every day is heterosexual pride day. Heterosexuals won't disappoint their parents simply by bringing home a boyfriend or girlfriend. They don't need reassurance that others like themselves exist. And, in relevance to the topic of this debate, they are legally allowed to marry a person suited for them. Holding a heterosexual pride parade would be like sending a "get well soon" card to a person in perfect health. However, in the interest of equality (which is the most important issue here), I would gladly support your organizing of a heterosexual pride parade if you felt that one was necessary for the empowerment and reassurance of straight people. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 9:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
KC, have you ever been to a pride parade? I have. Most of them are no different than any other march or parade. There are the exceptions. The media is quick to jump on the ones where you have a few who take it to the extreme. They are not the norm though. In fact, the last parade I attended, the people were told that any rude or conduct of a sexual natire would not be tolerated, and that the police were on hand to take care of any who felt they so needed to express themselves. Those rules were passed down by the pride committee that put the parade on. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 9:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Jeff, I have found that there is a double standard which we are expected to follow. The moral majority feels they can dictate to us how we should live, express ourselves, and what we can or cannot do. I learned something long ago about people who wish to control others, they have a major problem controlling themselves. Since then, I have taken full control of my life, and will never allow another to try and control it. I probably write more letters to politicians in one month than most people write to their families in one year. They cover every issue from the FMA, to equeality of rights, to economics and domestic issues. I am an activist, not just for LGBT issues, but for any and all issues which may have a bearing on my life. I may be only one voice, but there are others on several sites that I frequent that share the same issues, and we all voice our opinions to those in political power. The people here are nothing more than ordinary people like you and myself. They are no better than we are, and no worse. Their opinions are not the opinions of thousands of others out there, but only their own personal opinions. If you really wish to make your voice heard, do like those I have aligned myself with, and begin writing letters to every politician you possibly can. |
Date: 3/2/2004 9:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 51635
KC the day you see a heterosexual pride parade is the same day you'll see a white student union on a college campus... Yes this issue has been everywhere everyone turns these days, but I think thats because it's an election year and "W" has made it his personal goal to try and shove gays back in to the closet and some gay people (a few famous ones) are pushing the issue because they are tired of being treated like second class citizens...its all about perspective... just before women got the right to vote, that issue was in all the papers...before schools were integrated, that issue was in the news... it has to come to a head and I think that it'll burst any time now... someone with the power to do so will have to make a decission soon...what that decission will be, I don't know, but I do hope that freedom will prevail...freedom of religion, freedom of choice, the freedoms that allow two consenting adults to do what they please behind closed doors (well in some states anyway)... and it's not just marraige, gays want not to be discriminated against when it comes to employment and housing as well... I live in a state where I could leagally be fired or be evicted because of my sexual orientation...if it were because of my race or religion there would be outrage, but since it's only because I'm gay, well then I must be wrong...  |
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Date: 3/2/2004 9:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 30477
Two Spirit - I absolutely would love to do my part! Send me links and anything you think would be useful, my e-mail address is [email protected]. I've been meaning to sit down and write some letters to my state government here in Georgia, where a referrendum on the (very recently, very narrowly) defeated attempt to amend the state constitution will be taking place in the near future. I just need to find the darn time - these days, being in high school is a WAY bigger challenge than being gay! |
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Date: 3/2/2004 10:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 62100
LOL..MP, someone stating that they are a homosexual is not an announcement of their bedroom activity any more than by me ststing that I am a heterosexual. All it tells you is that "Sally" may choose to share a life with another female and that I share mine with a male. People like you see or hear the word and conjure the images..and THAT is what you can't handle. I myself have no problem with anyone "different" than I, we are all people, we have the same components underneath our skin- we all have blood flowing through our veins as well as a brain and a heart..it's just a shame that everyone doesn't use those organs in the same way. |
Date: 3/3/2004 12:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 57653
I'm all for gay marriage, we all should have equal rights. As for it being shoved into peoples faces on the news...it is not the fault of the gay community that this is on the news! They have a right to fight back and the news chooses to cover it! Like someone else said in this post...someday we will look back at this and wonder why this was even an issue.  |
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Date: 3/3/2004 5:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Crash, looking back at your comments on your long hair, like I said, I too have long hair that goes well down my back. I also wear ear rings in both ears. My ponytail is like a trademark for me, and people I have worked with in construction know me by it. I am well respected for the work I have done, and still do part time, and several companies have tried to hire me from the company I work for now. In atique circles, I am also known for my choice in high quality glass, pottery and porcelain, and some of the top shops and shows in the South have tried to get me as a vendor. Maybe it's not the long hair they see when they look at you. Maybe it is the attitude or the way you carry yourself. Some day you will find that reputation goes a lot further than looks in the job market. First though you have to build that reputation, and once it is built, you have to maintain it. |
Date: 3/3/2004 7:31:00 AM
From Authorid: 52140
I don't support the lifestyle or the gay marriages, but NO ONE has the right to interfere with who someone else wants to marry. The government might recognize it and people, but, since you refered to God at the end of your post, I don't think that God recognizes it because he didnt create humans to be homosexual but to be man and woman. So, I guess it just comes back to who you want to recognize your union. But, from my studies, God wouldn't recognize it because he doesn't accept homosexuality.  |
Date: 3/3/2004 9:25:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
VERY INSIGHTFUL, Jesus Freak. The way I am reading this argument is that somehow the government issuing two people a marriage license is like waving a magic wand over them and telling them they can now be happy. As if you needed the government to tell you that. And, if that is what you need, then tell me you're not looking for approval from a Higher Power? Maybe it's just that you look to the government as your Higher Power . . . God Bless.  |
Date: 3/3/2004 11:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 62060
So, if there is no reason for two people not to form a union with who they choose, why are gays not allowed to marry? MARRIAGE IS NOT LIMITED TO CHRISTIANITY - Jews marry, Hindus marry, atheists marry, heck, some barnyard animals are even married. Marriage has nothing to do with a higher power, just your own knowledge that you are with someone. To define marriage by recognition is just ignorance.  |
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Date: 3/3/2004 11:31:00 AM
From Authorid: 62060
And for those on other posts who have criticised me for using the definition 'homophobic', here's the Mirriam-Webster Dictionary of Law's definiton of prejudice, '2.To OBSTRUCT or injure by prejudices, or by previous bias of the mind; hence generally to hurt, to damage, to injure, to IMPAIR... a cause'. To prevent gay marriage is an act of prejudice, whether it is hidden behind the law or notions about the 'sanctity of marriage' *cough Britney Spears*. |
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Date: 3/3/2004 12:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
"Marriage has nothing to do with a higher power, just your own knowledge that you are with someone." If you honestly believe that, then why do you need the government to sanction your marriage? In order for them to tell you how to think? God Bless. |
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Date: 3/3/2004 3:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Deb, the answer is simple, so you will have the same rights and privileges as heterosexual couples. A heterosexual couple in many states do not even need a license or ceremony to be considered man and wife. There are still common law marriages. |
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Date: 3/3/2004 5:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
And once again, Two Spirit, WHY DON'T WE EXTEND THOSE RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES TO ALL PEOPLE? You say that is what "your group" is advocating yet your continued arguments on this issue don't always include that. Why not? You, above all people on this site, have it within your grasp to end all of this strife by just telling all the gay marriage proponents that, over and over again, rather than have Melodious and I (most noticeably, although others concur) continue to be called names because of our position. If equal rights are what you're after, then rightfully you should be getting called those same names, huh? God Bless. |
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Date: 3/3/2004 6:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Deb, the difference is that I do not try and use my religion to get what I want. I practice what my religion teaches, and that is that all are equeal. Honestly, I do not necessarily support gay marriages. However, when ammendments like the FMA come up, it is nothing more than a cornerstone upon which the government can build more discriminatory laws. Now, if the FMA were to have in it some kind of statute to allow for the states to decide the issue of civil unions, or if a law were enacted that the FMA could not override allowing for he same, then I would support the FMA, and for now, a hold on gay marriages. The fact is though, being transsexual, the issue of gay marriage has a tremendous impact on my life. If the FMA were to ratify, and I could complete transition, based on my birth gender, I could not marry a man I fell in love with. At the same time, I could not marry a woman, because it would give the illusion of a lesbian marriage. So, as you can see, I have a lot at stake in this issue. |
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Date: 3/4/2004 8:16:00 AM
From Authorid: 52140
Deb God is my higher power. If Im reading what you said right, then there are people who are united in marriage all the time who aren't married under Christianity. They get married under many other religions or at a courthouse (forgot what that's called). Anyway, there are many views on marriage. Yes, I believe in the Bible and that God created marriage, but we live in a free country and you can't say marriage is JUST what the Bible says it is because too many people view it differently. |
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Date: 3/4/2004 8:16:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Two Spirit if you are insinuating that Melodious and I based our argument on "religious beliefs" then you need to go read what transpired here on this site at the beginning of all this brouhaha. There was a CHALLENGE issued in a debate post to argue against "gay marriage" on something OTHER THAN "religious reasons". When the whole EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL PEOPLE stance was repeatedly explained to the proponents of "gay marriage" all that came back at us were insults and attacks on our arguments that included attacks on our stance on faith. Why? All I can figure out is that that is the only way these proponents are able to DEFEND "gay marriage", i.e., by attacking the person, no matter what their faith. I understand what you are saying is based on the NATIONAL perspective, but what I am saying is based on the LOCAL (i.e., USM community) perspective. God Bless. |
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Date: 3/4/2004 4:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
ok, I just reread that and it didn't specify exactly what I meant. Since the government is trying to keep the rights of all people, they have to make laws that might go against some religions. Im not happy with certain things like abortion or pornography, but I can't ask the government to make a law prohibiting those. As long as people are the legal age and have given their consent, then I have no right to intrude upon their business. As for abortion, I am prolife, BUT I understand the argument of a pro-choicer who believes her body is her own, no matter how much I might disagree with it... So, ya see, if the government continued to supress the right of ... just say my friend who is a gay Wiccan (and the ones I know support homosexual marriages), than the government would be just as tyrannical as the British government before and during the Revolution. |
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Date: 3/4/2004 7:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Deb, I can understand the USM perspective, but the fact is that I do not act on a local level, but on national level. I am very much involved in civil rights, civil liberties, and domestic issues. I am a business owner, and there are a lot of things that are important to me. I work with others of a like mind from all over the country on issues that are important not only to us, but to all people. Personally, I wish the national issue on gay marriage could be put aside for a few months, because there are more pressing problems in this country that are not being addressed because of it. While Washington tells us the economy is picking up, the fact is that on the level of the average person it is a shambles, and not gettting much better. There are also other domestic issues that have been put on the back burner, that need to be addressed. Jesus Freak, you mentioned the tyranny of the British government during this countries infancy. One reason people first came to this country was not necessarily the government's tyranny, but the tyranny of the church. The church of England at that time held as much weight if not more than the government. If the church accused a person of heresy, they could well be put to death. |
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Date: 3/5/2004 7:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 52140
I know that TS, the tyranny I was mentioning was the taxes with which the British government expected the colonists to pay because the French and Indian War-I think it was that war. Also, they had no representation in Parliament and they were required to house British soldiers, among other things. So, the point is, that homosexuals are granted a constitutional right to their happiness. |
Date: 3/6/2004 12:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 15319
All of you people shut up!!! ..... Good, now that thats over with, wether two gay people decide to marry affects you NONE, not even a miniscule amount. If Marriage was a religion-only type thing, the Justice of the Peace could not legally marry people. One day, 50, 100, or maybe even more years from now, when gay marriage is legal in all 50 states, people are going to (hopefully) look back on this day and see just how utterly ignorant and/or STUPID they acted about the whole deal.  |
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Date: 3/6/2004 7:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
TDA, if you define stupidity in advocating EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL PEOPLE, then I'll accept your label. Otherwise, get aquainted with EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL PEOPLE means before you come into these debates with such "enlightened" pronouncements. God Bless. |
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Date: 3/6/2004 8:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 62131
I got into this discussion in my home yesterday with my parents and one of my sisters. I think there is too much crap going on around the USA about this same sex thing. I'm not gay or anything but do believe that couples of the same sex have just as much of a right to marry and be happy too. I think all is fuss is just so stupid. How would you feel if the way things in the world were that same sex people could marry and a man and a woman were told it was illegal for them to marry. Would you want to fight for the same rights as same sex couples are fighting for right now??? I know that I would. All people were created equally and I think that should be meant for everything in life. |
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Date: 3/6/2004 8:42:00 AM
From Authorid: 62131
By the way, I'm 51 and my name is Judi. I truely believe that things have to change for all. Judi |
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Date: 3/7/2004 9:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 62060
Deb, you said, 'to sanction YOUR marriage'. FYI I am 16, STRAIGHT, and have no plans of marriage. Maybe you should think before pronouncing your enlightened judgements. The reason gay marriages will NEVER be on a par with 'equal rights for everyone' is because, shockingly enough, GAY PEOPLE DO NOT GET MARRIED FOR FINANCIAL BENEFITS. My aunt is gay, she is in love. If she choses to marry, it will not be for financial benefit, or legal recognition. It will be because she is in love with someone. On NO LEVEL can that be the same as two straight, same sex people who have been living together. You say you advocate equal rights, but, correct me if I'm wrong, I think you interpret the situations unequally. |
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Date: 3/12/2004 3:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Firestorm, I am against a LEGAL (aka, governmental sanction) desgination of "married" for homosexual couples. I am not against two people of whatever sex, sexuality, or whatever other category you can think of to have any kind of ceremony and calling it a wedding. That, simply put, is none of my business. Nor should it be the government's business, IMHO. God bless. |
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Date: 3/12/2004 3:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Deb, if marriage is not the business of the government, then who's business is it? I agree the government should have no hand in it, therefore any tax breaks for married people should be dome away with(which will help the defecit), social security survivor benefits should be done away (Which will mean more money is SS for those who have yet to retire), insurance cost should be the same regardless of whether one is married or single, and any other benefit the government gives married people should be done away with. THEN, we would all be equeal. |
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Date: 3/12/2004 6:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
TS, are we even talking about the same thing, ever? I keep seeing you refer to something as "equeal" rights. I am all for equal rights and if that means doing away with the "married" designation, I don't have one bit of a problem with that. I know I'm married, my husband knows we're married, our kids know we're married, and, I believe, God Knows we're married. I don't need the government to "know" I'm married in order for me to be married. God Bless. |
