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Date: 1/30/2004 2:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 57579
hmmm never really thought of that but it does make since but it is possible for a virgin to give birth. I dont want to push the g-rating so I'll just say not actual penetration is needed. So the virgin thing could technically be true... remember this is just my opinion *hugs*  |
Date: 1/30/2004 2:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 32133
what so its pretty much saying that when something that you never had happen before like blood flow to the brain it creats a dillusion of religion?  |
Date: 1/30/2004 2:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 12835
First of all, you would have to prove that a religion was not true, and we know that can't be done.  |
Date: 1/30/2004 2:21:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
And we can't prove religion IS true either, so this is just another theory...  |
Date: 1/30/2004 2:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 62060
Religious delusion dates back to Sigmund Freud 100 years ago? Er, call me deluded, but I thought religions dated back 1000's of years? IMO I think some forms of fanatacism are delusions - hence sucide bombers, kamakazi pilots, etc.  |
Date: 1/30/2004 2:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
Alien posted a link a while ago that discussed this in length. It was about people who had seizures and during their seizures had intense religious experiences to the point that they did not even want to be medicated for the seizures because they enjoyed the feelings they got from them. That's what leads scientists to believe that there is an area in the brain that has to do with religion. I don't think though that people who follow mainstream religions can be compared to people with psychiatric delusions.  |
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Date: 1/30/2004 2:45:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Well, I posted this on my site months ago, I just reposted it here now since I have been gone. I am SO SORRY that it was posted here in the past... |
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Date: 1/30/2004 2:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
no she didn't post this, she posted a link to a story that talked about the same subject, I don't think anything like this has been posted here before |
Date: 1/30/2004 2:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 10915
I recalled reading something like this in one of the popular magazines a couple of years ago. Religion was suppose to be all in the mind and that God is nothing more than some kind of psychological blissful mind state. All I can say is nice research.  |
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Date: 1/30/2004 3:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 12835
That's my point Dizzy. So could there be a pill to make people believe ? It's a circular argument... |
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Date: 1/30/2004 3:50:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Actually some psychedelic drugs can induce you to think you can see God... |
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Date: 1/30/2004 3:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 12835
I don't know, I've drank alot of booze and prayed to God that I would live the next day. Disclaimer....That was a long time ago. |
Date: 1/30/2004 4:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 46091
St. Paul (formerly Saul, I devout Jew) was said to have had a seizure on a journey to protest Jesus as a messiah... as he fell from the path he said God spoke to him and told him not to forsake his son. Maybe it was an hallucination or a spiritual conection to the creator. Either way... I don't think these occurances should be dismissed as a mental defect.  |
Date: 1/30/2004 4:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 62100
I think that anything is possible, and it is a fact that decreased oxygen to the brain can cause confusion and delirium..But, we have many people who are devoutly religous without having had any experiences like this..interesting debate though.  |
Date: 1/30/2004 4:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 24732
Here is the link again to a transcript to a show I watched about people who had seizures that caused them to become religious http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2812mind.html It's about 3/5 down that page. The doctor on that show mentioned how he wasn't sure if it was a good thing or a bad thing to treat the seizures, because the people that had them enjoyed the religious experiences that were caused by them.  |
Date: 1/30/2004 7:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
An interesting idea. However, if it is true that religion is a delusion and that it can be cured by a pill, I doubt that many religious people would want to be 'cured'. Religious belief is very important to some people. It is their life... their reason for being and coping. To take away their belief would be catastrophic and I would protest it vehemently. Spirituality is part of what makes us human, what makes us individual and what keeps most of us attached to this physical world. There are worse things than religious devotion. As long as it does no one harm and remains a personal committment it is fine. Who knows? Non belief may indeed also be a delusion. Without my belief in a universal intelligence I would find it hard to see a point in life except, of course, life itself. I wouldn't want to be cured of my delusion. As for buddhist meditation. Yes that is true because the physical counterpart is working together with the non-physical counterpart and the blood flow is decreased in order to enter a different state of being. It's almost like moving slightly out of the body in a kind of unattached way. I don't believe that spiritual experience is a delusion at all, but the real state of existence. It has been said that this earth plane is the delusion.  |
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Date: 1/30/2004 8:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
Or I should say illusion. |
Date: 1/30/2004 9:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 52155
Pete, Thursday was not all that long ago...  |
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Date: 1/30/2004 9:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Zorba looked at the sky with open mouth in a sort of ecstasy, as though he were seeing it for the first time.... "Can you tell me, boss," he said, and his voice sounded deep and earnest in the warm night, "what all these things mean? Who made them all? And why? And, above all" -- here Zorba's voice trembled with anger and fear -- "why do people die?" "I don't know, Zorba," I replied, ashamed, as if I had been asked the simplest thing, the most essential thing, and was unable to explain it. "You don't know!" said Zorba in round-eyed astonishment, just like his expression the night I had confessed that I could not dance.... "Well, all those damned books you read -- what good are they? Why do you read them? If they don't tell you that, what do they tell you?" "They tell me about the perplexity of mankind, who can give no answer to the question you've just put to me, Zorba." (p. 269) ------ Burly Zorba and his egghead "boss" observed absurd religious superstitions of the villagers surrounding them. They laughed at the pretense of priests and the gullibility of believers. Zorba scoffed: "God makes them deaf or blind, and they say: 'God be praised.'" (p. 62) "But we have no God to nourish us, Zorba," the employer observed. (p. 184) And Zorba commented: "Would God bother to sit over the earthworms and keep count of everything they do? And get angry and storm and fret himself silly because one went astray with the female earthworm next door or swallowed a mouthful of meat on Good Friday? Bah! Get away with you, all you soup-swilling priests! Bah!" (p. 234) Yet they returned, again and again, to the enigma that haunted them. -------- "When a man dies, can he come to life again?" he asked abruptly. "I don't think so, Zorba." "Neither do I...." (p. 106) Like Zorba, I have no clue.  |
Date: 1/30/2004 9:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
This is the old "Whom Created Whom" discussion. I post a story here at USM a few years ago on the "God"-part of the brain. The actual physiological part of the brain that "experiences" religious phenomena. Now-having practiced both Mindful Meditation & Hoth Yoga, I can tell you, there are actual physical changes that take place (changes in breathing, heart rate, etc). And we know that there is a connection between prayer & healing. Is there a God? We will not know until we leave this word. Except those who have in fact communicated with the Spiritual World. psychiatric DELUSIONS? It depends......one person "delusion", is another persons truth. And, as we see, it certainly seems to benefit the body & the mind to believe in a God. Just my imput.....  |
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Date: 1/30/2004 10:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
90 percent of humanity, the religious believers, don't need to ask the meaning of life. The church tells them the answer. Priests and scriptures say a magical, invisible god created the universe, and put people here to be tested, and set behavior rules for us to follow, and created a heaven to reward the rule followers, after they die, and a hell to torture the rule breakers, etc. This supernatural explanation, or some other mystical version, is accepted by the vast preponderance of the human species. But some of us can't swallow it, because there's no evidence. Nobody can prove that people continue living after death. Nobody can prove that people are tortured or rewarded in an afterlife, or that there are any invisible spirits to do the torturing and rewarding. I don't just think. I seek. We unsure people are doomed to be seekers, always searching for a meaning to life, but never quite finding one. I've been going through it for half a century. Now, I think I can say that there are two clear answers: (1) Life has no meaning. (2) Life has a thousand meanings. Take your pick, make your choice, and don't rely on anyone else for the answer. |
Date: 1/31/2004 10:21:00 AM
From Authorid: 51173
I was the one who posted this earlier - and the same criticism stands. "Disprove the written accounts of the virgin birth by common historiographic means, then bring your $%!@# theory out. Since by said common means the virgin birth story proves true, they have got no legs to stand on. Read the 6th chapter of "Darwin On Trial" by Phillip Johnson and you can see this is nothing more than attempt to discredit Christianity in favor of a new, "scientific" religion based on naturalism and natural selection.  |
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Date: 1/31/2004 10:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
I don't believe one should be "quick" to make the call that Christianty is being discredited, As I said, I am a seeker of truth, provide the proof. There is no "natural selection" but religion is based on culture and geography, that is a given. |
Date: 2/1/2004 10:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 28989
I read something similar written by a Harvard doctor called "The Breakout Principle." He noted similar studies of people praying, meditating, etc., that showed that parts of the brain we don't use very often in ordinary life are suddenly stimulated, producing endorphins. But he said that scientists couldn't see a cause-and-effect thing going on. These religious experiences seemed to be happening spontaneously, without an apparent trigger, as if something outside the people was doing it.  |
Date: 2/1/2004 11:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 7830
Well it does make sense. Anyone could have a delusion and call it a religious belief and then be committed by someone whodoesnt believe the same way. Any of today's religious beliefs would qualify as delusional to some people. Delusions are all in how you look at it.  |
Date: 2/3/2004 9:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
"Psychosis" is defined as being a loss of touch with reality. If in "reality" all any one looks to is that which can be "factually proven", then, of course, any SPIRITUAL experiences are going to be deemed non-reality by those who don't have any evidence that such a "thing" exists. Until or unless a person has an actual spiritual experience, those things are going to remain unreal because there is no physical proof to offer. Speaking from experience . . . God Bless.  |
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