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Date: 1/3/2004 11:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 14412
The christian religion has many things in it that I do not uphold. Some of the stuff they teach is actually hatred if you look at from a different perspective. I do not believe you can seperate a sin from a person and just hate the sin, for to hate what they have done, or who they are is still hating the person. There is so much contradiction in the bible that I find it very hard to believe this religion was founded by one person, the bible was written by many persons and for that matter it would eventually become too many people saying something and not only one thing being followed.  |
Date: 1/3/2004 11:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 50193
I'm sure the Jewish community of USM will appreciate this post...  |
Date: 1/3/2004 11:17:00 AM
From Authorid: 58334
Well, firstly I don't beleive in God. I once was a Christian but I never really felt it was right for me. I would go to Sunday school when I was smaller and then I started going to youth group with my friends and I felt uncomfortable. Then that's when I started to explore other religions. I found that I felt more comfortable with them then I did w/ Christianity. Then Ijust sort of started not beleiveing in God because for me, personally, I find it all a little hard to believe. I'm much more of a spiritual perosn then any other. I don't have one religion but I just go more with what I feel. And it's nice because when I was into the Christian thing I felt under pressure a lot and now I'm free  |
| Date: 1/3/2004 11:28:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 Thank you for all your posts, but rather than attempting to disprove Christianity, what is the one thing that made you a non-Christian? The one thing that really did if for you. What made you absolutely sure? |
Date: 1/3/2004 11:31:00 AM
From Authorid: 55386
I'm like, protestant..or...however you spell it, same thing tho....Sorta..Anyway..Umm...I actually am that religion, but I don't believe in religions. I believe there is a God, but there are so many fights with who's religion is correct, we never realize all religions have ONE God, and one significant power close to God's power. Just like God and Jesus, there is Zeus and Hercules, and many more. so yeah....  |
| Date: 1/3/2004 11:33:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 And what did it for you Gothic Angel? Why did you stop believing in religions? |
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Date: 1/3/2004 11:33:00 AM
From Authorid: 55386
I also don't believe in religions because you're supposed to "free yourself from sin" When really...when we look at it, everyone does a sin like, every...5 minutes or something. It's unlogical. |
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Date: 1/3/2004 11:35:00 AM
From Authorid: 14412
What did it in for me, is how they look at the gay community as all sinners. We are all people, and they will teach that it's all a sin. I find that rather to be just down right rude, not to mention wrong of a religion. |
| Date: 1/3/2004 11:38:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 That is understandable, that does it for a lot of people I think. At least I hear that a lot. But I think homosexuals are people and I'm a Christian. Once again I'm not going to start debating unless you ask, but just on a personal level I don't want you to think I see people that way. |
Date: 1/3/2004 11:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 59861
hey. i am a christian now, and have been since before i could remember. my gramma had a huge impact on my life, especially spiratually, and when i was just old enough to understand, she started telling me and my two brothers about god. she shared with us everything she knew, and was an avid christian. she read her bible every single day, she had to have read the entire thing a dozen times over! i remember when she started telling me what i could do to make jesus MY friend, and not just something i read about in sunday school. then she told me how i could pray to make jesus my god forever and ever. so i did, and sometimes i forget, but most times i try to stick to the right path. and good for you Jadd, for beleving in god after your prior "non belief". tell us how you came to know god. peace n luv.  |
Date: 1/3/2004 11:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 31841
The reason I converted to Christianity is because I wanted to have eternal life, if there was such a thing. I never wanted to believe there was a god because the world was so cruel to innocent children. The whole messaage that Jesus died on a cross for sinners never really made much sense to me. I thought if there was a god, why did he screw up so bad. Why didn't he get it right when He created Adam and Eve. My conversion was at a personal breakdown, at that point I directed all my questions toward a God, if there was a god, I wanted to believe in something.... Someone had given me a Bible, I never opened it up , until this moment I wanted answers. To my surprize, I opened my new Bible and it opend to the first chapter of John and I read the first three verses and everything made sense to me for the first time. It was like I had been deaf and blind and now I could suddenly see and hear! It was awesome, and that was the day I understood why Jesus came and died on a cross. One problem I had was that I never saw myself as a sinner. I was shown that I lied, stole, even hated, and God consider that like murder. I also saw that it wasn't God who screwed up, but humans did, and God knew it all along, but He gave us freedom to choose our own way. He knew , and that is why Jesus was in the begining of creation, to bring us redeemption and bring us back to God, through the perfect life Jesus lived. Because we were born to sin, because we our gene pool was infected by the sin of Adam and Eve, but Jesus brought delieverence from the curse of our sin which was spiritual and physical death.  |
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Date: 1/3/2004 11:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 59861
gothic angel, how the heck can you compare jesus to hercules?!?!?!? and you cant look at a person as a sin, but just the sin that they commit. it's really easy when you look at it that way, predictor. if you look from the buddhist (sp) perspective, there are many ways to reach perfection. it's impossible not to sin in god's eyes, but thats why you pray for forgiveness. all you have to do is ask, and its just like you never did it. god forgets it if you mean it. and as for me, i'm not claiming to be jesus here or anything, but once you take god as your own, then he's yours forever, and theres nothing you can do to take that back. the more you sin, the lesser reward you get when you reach heaven. at least thats the way i look at it. wow, my gramma would be proud of me for preachin to you all. lol. peace n luv |
| Date: 1/3/2004 11:45:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 I was a very odd case, you see I never really believed, but I always went to church. It was a horrible situation, I used to think of ways that Christianity was false while sitting in the choir loft (my mom put me in the choir when I was young and I got really mad at her). Then I would feel evil for "disbelieving in a church". I started to believe when I visited this church, and this guy (the pastor) started talking about proof and realistic approaches to things (this was completely foreign to me). You see I'm a lover of the truth, even when it hurts, it killed me to go to church and not believe. When I thought there might actually be a way to prove finally whether Christianity was true or false I got really excited (I assumed I'd be able to prove it false). But it didn't work out that way, in the end, after studying the evidence, I decided belief was more believable. Thanks for asking. |
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Date: 1/3/2004 11:48:00 AM
From Authorid: 59861
yo 34841, HOLLA!!!!! |
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Date: 1/3/2004 11:52:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62510
Yeah 31841 I know what you mean, it was hard for me to admit I wasn't a very nice person. Sometimes I tried to argue with God. But somebody once told me to pray that you would know how bad you really were and C.S.Lewis says to write out what a perfect person would be like, and then try to be it for a week. Now, sometimes when I look back at myself, I have to ask God NOT to let me see how bad I was (and am in many ways). |
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Date: 1/3/2004 11:54:00 AM
From Authorid: 58334
Also, I don't like the idea of be good go to heavan, sin go to hell. I never really felt all for it. yet again why I fell trapped, in a way. then I discovered reincarnation I was like "Wow, this is how I really feel." Because I've always believed in that sort of thing even through the Christian phase. And the whole concept of being free spiritually really did it for me. |
| Date: 1/3/2004 11:58:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 I don't mean to be pushy, I mean I really want to understand. If you want reincarnation because, well life sucks, why won't it suck next time. |
Date: 1/3/2004 11:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 1799
Christianity just isn't for me.. my attitude, my beliefs, go with the wiccan faith.. and i love being what i am.  |
| Date: 1/3/2004 12:00:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 I mean, won't your next life be just as messed up and bad and tiring. When I was an atheist I liked the idea of just nothing, sort of like mental suicide, so endless earth would be hell for me. |
| Date: 1/3/2004 12:01:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 Could you give me examples Emi? |
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Date: 1/3/2004 12:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 58334
Sure in reincarnation if you have really bad karma, like you are a true bad person, you'll come back in your next life as something lower then you were, a dog, insect maybe. But for me I see it as experince more for your life. You have many times to enjoy it, and more choices and you can always make it up. if you came back as a dog, but then in your life as a dog you changed your ways you could come back as a human. But for Christianity it's liek you can;t change it. Either you go to heaven or hell. Theres no changin it. |
Date: 1/3/2004 12:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 50678
I'm was Christian and I still believe in the Christian God and the Virgin Mary and heaven but I have my own religion. I become this way when I was sick of church, I went on a spiritual journey and this is where I am, but I'm still on that journey. I practice witchcraft, I don't believe in Satan. I believe in hell just not the hell Christians do, I believe in the astral plane, the lowest plane is hell with is the surface of earth and heaven is the highest plane. I believe in a Goddess. I believe there is only one God/Goddess we just all see him differently, like I see him as the Christian God, others may see him as a different God. There is much more but that is what I believe. I also know God doesn't care what religion you are, I know he loves me and is happy with me. You can all debate with my beliefs but they aren't going to change, my beliefs are from facts, history, but some are beliefs. The fact is we don't know the truth about God and heaven and hell until we die, so everything is really belief, unless you use history. I think that is all, lol. Long. Sorry. Blessed Be.  |
| Date: 1/3/2004 12:03:00 PM From Authorid: 54247 Always been a Christian. Rocky times over which faith always prevailed. My Mother died when I was born and her last wish was I be raised in the Episcopal Church. Sadly, we had the church building but no pastor. Catholic family raised me for a few years. Had unbroken chains of strong belief, but several years of never going to church. Now go regularly to one at an Air Force Base - am more comfortable with pastors from different Protestant backgrounds. BUT, no matter where, when, my faith was always very strong. I dearly love the Joan of Arcadia TV show (Friday nights) - actually, I believe God does speak to us regularly - we just don't listen. You see for years I felt responsible for my mother dying when I was born. Then, the day my grandmother got sick, she sent me to get help and then she died - I thought I had killed her when I crawled over her getting out of bed. Things are never what they appear to be - but faith has always pulled me through. RAT |
Date: 1/3/2004 12:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 6860
Why aren't you a Buddhist? Why doesn't Joe Bob believe in Taoism? I really don't think it matter what anyone believes, as long as they are happy and have found some type of inner-peace. To answer your question, I am not a Christian because I have many doubts with that religion (not just the only one though, there are doubts with other religions), and most of the Christian beliefs are not similar to my own. I am not going to be a part of any religion whose beliefs and teachings I don't agree with or I don't practice.  |
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Date: 1/3/2004 12:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 55386
Nimi, I believe in reincarnation too. I believe that yes, there might be a heaven and hell, but I think you can choose I guess, or something. I just like to believe what I want. |
Date: 1/3/2004 12:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 37843
I didn't grow up in church, but my mom did, my grandma has had a big impact on my church life. I had planned to start going to church when I got my license, but I didn't, but then that November there was a lock-in for the youth-group at my grandma's church, but it also happened to be where one of my good friends went to church.. so my cousin and I went to the lock in... its a small church... There were 14 teens there... four of them were members... we stayed up all night... most of us, I think 2 or threee girls went to sleep, but the rest of us stayed up, until we went home. it was a lot of fun and they invited us all back for sunday services the next day. My cousin, one of my other good friends and I went on Sunday and I felt God calling me to go forward at invitation, the sunday school teacher had told my grandma that I was asking how to become a member, so she prayed with me.. so thats how I got saved... the next week my best friend J.D. Got saved too!  |
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Date: 1/3/2004 12:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 37843
God has brought me through too many things for me not to believe. p.s. Smile, Jesus Loves U! ~~ |
Date: 1/3/2004 12:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 42792
ditto to what running wolf said...  |
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Date: 1/3/2004 12:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 6860
And being in a Christian Church, or with very religious people makes me uncomfortable. I think thats one of the things that did it for me. I'm uncomfortable with the Christian religion. There are just a lot of components that I do not agree with. Being religious is not important to me; being spiritual is, and I think that I am successful in that area. Emi said it nicely, Christianity just isn't for me. My attidudes and my morals and beliefs are not the same as with Christianity. I don't feel that that makes me a bad person in anyone's eyes, and if you think I'm a terrible rotten person and that I'm going to hell for not believing in God, then I sincerely apologize for your closed-mindedness. If anyone would care to know what I believe in, go ahead and message me with questions, I'll be sure to answer them for you. |
Date: 1/3/2004 12:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 12084
Why does the Christian God punish people for rules he sets and others do not follow? Who says you have to do someone elses rules? Freedom is freedom with no rules right? Just because he don't like what others do, is no reason to punish them right. All he wants is to make rules and war correct. So next time you invite guest into your house and they pick their noses, and eat the residue for dessert, don't make any rules against it. Just because you or others don't like it, aint no reason to try and force them to stop. Who ever said it was wrong to do so anyway. God? I think not! Why do we need rules, and hate, and discuss, for others who are different? So if you or anyone hates, or has discuss for people who are different, and for the things that go on in your own house. Then you are no different than the Christian God! Let your children be who they want to be. Let them do what they want to do. It is their un godly given right! Right? But in my Fathers house, their are many mansions, If it were not so he would have told me. There is also order in my fathers house, and rules that "all", must obey if they wish to enter. His rules are good in my Fathers house, and welcomed by me. The food and Dessert is very good indeed. And if anybody tries anything unruly in his house, Well...., lets just say, he'll getcha! Thats just plain and simple. So thats why I am a believer in Jesus Christ and a member of his household.  |
Date: 1/3/2004 12:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Jadd, I use to be an atheist also and like you, I had a strong desire for truth, whatever it was. My desire for the truth, if there was one, caused me to study all that was offered as truth. I eliminated all that I found to not be true. Really, To make a very long story short, I do firmly believe that God knew that I was seeking to find Him and He found me.  |
Date: 1/3/2004 12:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 28946
I am a Christian in the belief that I accept Jesus Christ as my savior and believe in His teachings. I don't believe He would be deliberately cruel or mean but loving and kind to everybody. I believe He gave the ultimate sacrifice in order to give the world a chance at eternal salvation. I believe Jesus is pure love and that He gives strength to those that are weak and call upon His name. This is my belief. I am not perfect and mess up often but I believe God and Jesus forgive me and everyone that asks for forgiveness.  |
| Date: 1/3/2004 12:33:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 12084, I said this in another post, but I'll repeat it. If some god just came along and started barking orders you are right he would be very mean and strict. The thing is he made us. So to argue with instructions that make you function better (happier, safer, complete) is like telling an instruction manual it is rather nervey for telling you to keep your CD player out of the rain. If the rules you've heard don't sound like they would make you happy, or safe but rather just nervous and irritable perhaps you should look them up, you know there are a lot of misconceptions about Christianity (mostly among Christians sadly). |
| Date: 1/3/2004 12:34:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 oh, whoops I commented before I finished reading (it was a rhetorical question, sorry 12084). |
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Date: 1/3/2004 12:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 28946
That's a good way to look at it haeema. |
Date: 1/3/2004 1:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 25756
I don't know.  |
Date: 1/3/2004 1:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 30747
I came from a family background that shunned religion. The mention of God was forbidden in our house. At the age of 15 I joined a church on my own. My parents put up with it for a while, figuring I had to find my own answers but eventually they stopped me from going back. They thought I had become self righteous. Maybe I had. Over the years I became more and more spiritual in a non sector way. I suppose faith was all I had to get me through some really tough times. I found that when my faith faultered the alternative was misery I couldn't deal with. Thinking back on it all, faith was a crutch. It wasn't until I was 32 years old and facing the toughest test of my life that I found God, or rather I should say, he found me. I had cancer and during one of the surgeries to remove tumors from my body, things went terribly wrong and I died. This happened at a time that I had serous questions of Gods existance and love. I was angry that after all I had gone througe and remained a loving, trusting believer in him that he would allow this to happen to me. I wish I could say that I remember details of my death and return but I don't. I do know that I came back a very different person. As I was coming out of the drug induced state and on life support after the surgery, I am told that I kept repeating "I have to right a wrong". To this day I don't remember that nor do I know what it means. People who knew me all my life saw the difference. I couldn't explain it but I felt that I had the answers to the questions I had about God. In particular...why bad things happen to good people. It was nothing I could put in to words if I tried. I had found some sort of peace in death. This is not to say that I'm sin free or live my life in fear of the Lords wrath. It's quite the opposite. What ever I saw, felt or heard when I died was enough to tell me not to fear, not to question, not to preach, not to condemn another, not to judge but to share and to love and to trust in the Lord. Jesus did die for our sins. That is all we have to remember. I don't belong to any organized religion and frankly the thought of going to church scares me a little. I know all I need to know in my heart. That is the true house of the Lord. Religion is a very personal learning experiance and all I can do is share my story but my thoughts don't make it right for someone else. Everyone must find there own way. (sorry so long)   |
Date: 1/3/2004 1:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 52337
I wuz born Christian. I love being Christian. It gives you sumthing to beleive in when the world is falling apart. Luv Alws, lizz  |
Date: 1/3/2004 1:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
Well you talk as if there are only two choices here... christian or atheist! I was christened when I was a baby (no choice). I went to church every sunday. In fact I actually wanted to be a missionary believe it or not. Yikes! I always had a knowing that christianity wasn't true and I ended my association with that falsehood at the age of 10. For a long time I couldn't voice my inner knowledge about religion so I kept it quiet. A number of things made me realise that I couldn't live a lie. I think probably the main one may have been that I couldn't take the hypocracy... the talking but not walkin their talk. Religions are too limiting, too restrictive, too prejudiced, incapable of expanding their minds to accept a larger truth that encompasses everything and the fact that we are all One.  |
Date: 1/3/2004 1:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 24704
Mostly because I was raised in a baptist family, went to babptist church, everything, as I got older, I started to realize that baptists are extreme hypocrites and do everything they preach against, the turn around and tell you that your going to hell for it.  |
Date: 1/3/2004 1:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
I grew up what I would term agnostic. We adhered to no religion, went to church as an oddity maybe half a dozen times growing up, and heard my dad occaisonally bash Catholicism (his boyhood religion) and my mom stating she wasn't at all sure that the Jesus story was real but that she enjoyed the story nonetheless. At age nine I had what I will only deem here a supernatural occurence happen to me, and again at age 17. These occurences gave me a bit of an insight into what I suppose I'll term a predestined life, which frankly just made me mad at God whenever I thought of the subject. At age 25, God Himself Let me know He Exists, and while I genuinely understood He Existed, there was still a lot of anger on my part for Him. I know I haven't answered your question . . . I am getting there, however. I am a Christian (a believer in Jesus and a person who strives to follow his example) because I finally came to the realization that to have peace in my life and with God, I needed to be like Jesus, who put aside his desire to do things his own way, in deference to doing Our Father's Will, regardless of the physcial pain, mental bashing, and emotional anguish he had to endure. God Bless.  |
Date: 1/3/2004 2:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
Was raised Catholic...and was a very devoted practising Catholic till late teens...then went my own way, had my own experiences which developed the beliefs and morals I have now. I have a strong belief in, and love for, that which I term God...as such, I try hard to show love to every person I meet, for there is God in all people...but I don't necessarily consider myself Christian, though do hold many Christian beliefs...instead I prefer to say I have a faith but not a religion...as my relationship with the Lord is on a personal level...between me and Him...it does not require a 'middle-man' at all. More power to you...I am glad you have found peace in the path you walk. Peace,  |
Date: 1/3/2004 2:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 36754
I don't see how one person made this world and i don't believe that there is one place that you go after you die. and i don't like how christianiy descriminates gays.. I respect other religions but idon't see how a book that was written so long ago can actually be followed today, and in this society. It's alot different. Science and technology has progressed amazingly. They use stem cells to make new hearts and livers.. almost anything... there are cell phones that are sergically placed in your hand so you don't have to carry anything around... Way different. I think that this world has evolved past believing in christianity just as we passed human sacerfice. This is why i am non-Christian  |
Date: 1/3/2004 2:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 35720
I'm not a big fan of religion. There are so many loopholes in the Bible, I can't even begin to count them all. To top it off, there are thousands of different religions and to be honest, they all confuse me. What bothers me the most is when a member of a certain religion speaks all high and mighty and matter-of-factly about their religion.. the truth is, no one.. NO ONE.. knows for sure.  |
Date: 1/3/2004 2:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 15675
I was raised as a lutheran but i mean my family wasnt really religious. I'm not a Christian because I am now a Wiccan and it suits me just fine . However I have no problem with the principals of Christianity just some of the corruption that has happened to it   |
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Date: 1/3/2004 4:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
examples? well... its hard to explain really, at least not without sounding rude, which i wouldn't try to be, because i believe that whatever religion someone chooses is probably right for them.. just my fascination with magic, reincarnation, the many gods, seeing it as being with nature, not believing in hell or the devil, or the jealous god thing. Christianity just doesn't suit me. |
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Date: 1/3/2004 4:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 1799
and yes, Kaja said that well.. nothing wrong with Christianity.. people interpret it wrong.. i don't like how people do that. |
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Date: 1/3/2004 4:33:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62510
I understand what you mean Agent Smith, but to me a religion is just a relationship with God. When "religions" or denominations get to proud of themselves nothing can come of it, because no one can get it perfect. That is why I'm a Presbyterian, there's still problems, some of them are still hypocrites (you'll find hypocrites anywhere you find people) but they realize that everyone has to find their own path to God and no one can use the map anyone else sets down for them. I know what you mean Koolade, when I was an atheist I lived a lie, I went to church every Sunday, even joined the choir. Yes, in my heart I believe there are only two kinds. Some like I used to be didn't believe but pretend, some don't believe publically (both are atheists at heart) and others know, but are wrong (the only type of Christian). Some are more wrong than others, but it's important to never put yourself above anyone else, because you never get it perfect. But there are of coarse, certain basics that I feel I must share. Jesus, and what he did and the proof of it...exc. But if you know that much then you'll have a drive to learn more without needing any silly grading system. |
| Date: 1/3/2004 4:35:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 Sparrowhawk, What if the way society should run itself is also depicted in the Bible, then Science and government and social change aren't really changing the situation, but only new ways of not doing what the Bible says. |
| Date: 1/3/2004 5:11:00 PM From Authorid: 54247 SoulDrifter - your response was so beautiful. My wonderful stepmon (Mother #4 in my life)didn't go to church - but, she believed and shared with me many years later about the time when she and Dad were first married and she lost the baby and almost died. Said she saw Jesus standing there with open arms. But, she did not die and stayed with us and had my little sister many years later. I was a horrible kid - had heard all the gossiping elderly ladies that my dad had only married her so I could live with him and have a Mom. Well, I didn't really needed one then and I was going to church and she was in the hospital and I prayed that she would die and the baby would live and Dad and I would raise it. Then, I saw Dad's face so pale and worried, and blurted out, "Dad do you really love her?" He was shocked, "Of course, I do!" So actually, I felt that God answered by taking the baby and leaving her. Probably not, but, wow - my messages always get to me loud and clear because I don't stop and read scripture all the time. We are loved. Thanks to all of you for sharing your moments. I could not have survived without all the angels God sent to help me. Of course I am a Christian, but was never perfect. RAT |
Date: 1/3/2004 5:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 58268
im not because i dont believe and refuse to believe that a god exists and can create such things out of thin air. Also, it talks about in the bible about how god and jesus did so many things and how so many phenomenons happened, but yet nothing like that happens now. It just doesnt sound believeable to me. 'sinning' doesnt either.  |
Date: 1/3/2004 5:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I"m a christian, wasnt one until I turned 35 and that was because that was the age I was when someone FINALLY explained salvation to me. What it was, what it meant. I thought I had to be this perfect person, before I could have God in my life, and I didnt know that God is alive!! Didn't know that at all and that made all the difference.  |
Date: 1/3/2004 5:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 61901
I was a christian but now I am a Pagan. Being a Pagan is more natural, I am drawn to it. Whole lot more simple and peaceful. I am not into Death,Distruction and Damnation anymore. Peace and Blessings  |
| Date: 1/3/2004 6:10:00 PM From Authorid: 62339 Is this a questions to athiests only or for all non-Christians, including people of different religions? Well my grandparents had three children and raised them as Catholics but two of the children are now athiests and the third didn't even finish high-school and says she is a believer of the Catholic religion but she has never even questioned it. My mom and uncle are the athiests. They both became athiests during college when they started to question the relgion and the idea of a God. Which was expected because my uncle spent his whole school life in Catholic school and my mom and aunt did up untill Middle school. They both decided the idea of a God existing was impossible and unrealistsic and that the bible left to many questions unanswered. I'm an athiest too. My favorite subjects in school are history and science. In history I see what religion has done to people. Hurt and oppress them. In science I see how everything needs to be proved in order to be consider real and theories need to be based on strong eveidence until they can be proven or disproven. I see that there needs to be expiriments to prove all things. All of this takes logical and rational thinking to do. To me the bible is made up of little stories and mythologies which cannot possibly be true because they can never be proven. Religion requires faith and I can't just go by faith and follow something so blindly. My mom told me that when she was a kid and would question the religion her response would always be "just have faith". For her and my uncle this wasn't enough. They needed real answers. Science offers these answers and backs them up so I believe in science. I'm just one of those skeptical people that need proof for everything. I cannot accept the idea of a God without any proof. In fact my question to you is, why do you beleive in God without proof? How can you just have faith like that? What about all of the other religions and the scientific theory on how we were created? I never understood this. My mom told me that religion was pushed on her and always "shoved down her throat" as a child and she didn't like the "believe this way or go to Hell rule". For me, when I was old enough to think about religion, I became even more skeptical when I would talk to strict Christian believers who seemed so judgemental and hypocritical. They could never answer my questions either and it all came back to faith, though they would preach that their religion was right and I would be better off finding Jesus. The other kind of Christians I know say they are Christian but never go to church, pray, or read the bible. I don't think they even really believe in God, they just don't questions it. So, this is why I don't beleive in a God. |
Date: 1/3/2004 6:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
I walked away from Christian religions to find truth, and did. I do believe in a supreme being, but believe modern religions are of man, and not of a supreme being. I have always believed that man should make his own decision concerning which path is right for him. The church did not accept that attitude, but believed it should mold man into the image it thought God intended for man. Like others, I saw not total love for all mankind, but hatred for those who were different. To me, organized religion is nothing more than organized thought, and that is a precept I do not adher to.  |
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Date: 1/3/2004 6:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 62339
Lizzard Princess, why can't you beleive in yourself and your own strength when your world is falling apart? I never needed religion or God when my world was falling apart so I never understand what people mean when they say this. 12084, I have wondered the same thing and I think you're right. |
Date: 1/3/2004 6:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
I was raised Christian and I couldn't stand to see the hypocrisy of the people who called themselves Christians. That's probably one of the first things that made me question the existence of God. Another was that no one could answer my questions, all these people who are supposedly good Christians and they can't even answer questions directed at the Bible. They spread and teach hate which is not a teaching of Jesus their Savior and Messiah. He taught love and acceptance. Most Christians have probably never even read the Bible from cover to cover and can only quote a few verses that were embedded into their brain in Church. In my opinion Christianity today is less about the Bible and more about Church dogma. True Christianity was lost when people in the Churches used it to gain power and money, it's now about controlling the masses and not about God or the Bible.  |
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Date: 1/3/2004 9:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Jadd, the number of respondants you have at the time I am typing this is 31. I was noticing a trend in a lot of the respondants so I did a small analysis. It seems over 40% of these people answer your question as to why they are not a Christian by answering that a Christian RELIGION basically turned them off. Four people (plus I added two more to this category where it wasn't really discernable but seemed plausible) have been lifelong Christians. Five of us had what I can only think to term "God-experiences". Four appeared somewhat confused, sorry to say. No offense meant there but, in at least one of those responses the commenter admits to being so. And three I felt described themselves as nuetral. I just think it is safe to say that in the majority of reasons, people are not Christian because a Christian RELIGION couldn't provide them with what they felt was THE TRUTH. God Bless. |
Date: 1/3/2004 9:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 17014
What made me absolutley sure.... let me see. When I was about 8 years old I lost both of my dads parents- my grand parents- in less than 8 months. Anyone to instill that kind of pain on a single person and his family is surely everything short of a god. And the way my grandpa died just 3 years ago confirmed my unbelief. Because if there truely was a god - in my eyes- he would not put any one person in the pain that comes with losing someone to a disease similiar to Alzheimers- just plain old old age- where he couldn't remember his wife of more than 54 years' name, the name of his four daughters or who his grandchildren and great grandchildren are. What kind of higher being would make people that he supposedly loves so much doesn't seem like much of a god to me, but rather more of a sinister being who enjoys suffering of 'his people'. My opinion, my thoughts. (Neither of which are up for debate).  |
Date: 1/3/2004 9:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 11528
I was a christian for many years. Im not anymore. The truth will set You free as it did me.  |
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Date: 1/3/2004 9:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 17014
And so by the way I wander through life believing in my own strength and I have found myself in many aspects and some of which I believe I have found in the Pagan and Wiccan religions. I need no gatheri8ng spot for my religion because you don't need to be part of a congregation to believe in something. I believe in what I do because I want to, not because some priest scared me into it with a threat of eternal damnation if I didn't and I'm not scared to take the path less traveled and be on my own. |
Date: 1/3/2004 9:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
I despise labels, groups and prefer to walk through life on my own.  |
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Date: 1/3/2004 9:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
"Man is that being who invented the gas chambers of Auschwitz; however, he is also that being who entered those chambers upright, with the Lord's Prayer or the Shema Yisrael on his lips." Victor Frankl... People and religion, or the lack of, there's a thought there^^^, the meaning is never the same for anyone. |
Date: 1/3/2004 10:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 15319
Lets see: Belief all Non-Christians including, but not limited to, Wiccans, Pagans, Athiests, Buddhishs, Jehovas Witness, Hindus, Muslims, etc. are not only evil, but corrupt and Hellbound. *Belief all homosexuals or bisexuals are evil and Hellbound. *Belief that EVERY SINGLE man,woman, or child is borned destined for Hell because of what two people supposedly did thousands of years ago, which we had NOTHING to do with. *Belief that God will reward only the believers of a certain religion, but everyone else burns in fire for all eternity without mercy. *Belief that other religions are wicked and that Christians should actively try and convert them to THEIR religion. I can keep going, but whats the point?  |
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Date: 1/3/2004 10:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 6860
Jadd, this isn't directed just towards you, this is directed to everyone that I will come into contact with during the course of my life, and to those whom I don't even know exist. Why is it ANY of YOUR business why I am NOT a certain way or believe in something? Why does it matter to YOU how I lead MY life? It shouldn't, and I get upset at people who tell me that I need to find God in order to be happy. And then to tell me that I'm going to hell because I don't believe in your god, that just pushes me off the edge. I don't see why it’s anybody's business why I believe what I do. Am I a serial killer? A rapist? A thief? No. I am me, and I believe in what I believe. And if that's wrong to all of you who think you have the God given right (no pun intended) to tell me what I NEED to believe in, then I'm sorry that you've been misinformed on how I operate. I think that I am going to start asking people why they're not Islam, and then proceed to tell them that Allah is going to sacrifice them and burn them all in hell. Why? Because MY RELIGION is BETTER than YOURS, and my religion is RIGHT. People wonder why I'm not Christian; it's the attitudes like the ones above that really turn me off. I do have respect for all religions, and I enjoy learning about them. But the minute you start preaching to me about what I need to believe in, then I get very angry, because no one can dictate to me which spiritual path is right for me, except me. Sorry for the rant, this is a sensitive subject for me. I know that not all Christians or religious people are pushy in their beliefs, so I didn’t mean this as anything offensive to anyone. And like I said, I didn't direct this at anyone specific and I'm sorry if I offended anyone in my rant. Again, if anyone cares to know what I believe in, feel free to ask me. Then you can decide whether or not I'm a good person or whether you think I should go to hell. |
Date: 1/3/2004 11:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 49539
Well, see, I was a Christian about 2 years ago. I became one because it helped me grieve when my mom died. Later as I felt emotionally stronger, one day I looked around at the church and at the people. It scared me because it looked like a cult. Also, I don't enjoy the personalities a lot of the pastors and/or leaders have. They have that kind of fake personality. I'm spiritual but not religious, only because I cannot have(and believe me, I have tried) the belief that there is a "God". I can't believe there is one thing ruling this entire universe and we should bow down to them. I believe in a higher being but never a "God".  |
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Date: 1/3/2004 11:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 49539
By the way, I agree strongly with Running Wolf. Anyone who should tell anyone what spiritual path they need to take is not one I'd care to befriend. |
Date: 1/4/2004 12:02:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
I'm not a Christian because Christianity is a contradiction to everything it stands for. Be good, don't hurt people, ... But God does some of the most harmful and hateful things, and yet people call him perfect and blameless. I once believed before I found out some of the twisted things this so-called "loving" being did.  |
Date: 1/4/2004 6:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 48809
I am not a Christian because there are so many contradictions in this religion and so much of it does not make sense to me, such as the virgin birth, the Trinity, and the belief that God and Jesus are the same Being . Some of the rites and rituals that they have such as the Eucharist, and the belief that Jesus died to save us from our sins etc. also put me off.  |
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Date: 1/4/2004 7:21:00 AM
From Authorid: 12084
Lets See: Belief that sitting at someones breakfast table as their guest, while you pick your nose and eat the residue for dessert is wrong & requires disiplinary action. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 7:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 12084
I too agree with running wolf and Chicka Offspring. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 9:21:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Do any of you who are not a Christian know what "perfect" is to God? I think I see alot of people upset because their expectations of HIM as taught by a religion they used to practice weren't fulfilled. And do you all see yourself as using the word "Christian" to mean "Christian religion"? A Christian religion is one that uses the Bible as the basis of their doctrine. Read that. THEIR doctrine. Christian religion has as its basis MAN'S thinking on what the Bible means, which is taught as doctrine. Being a Christian, to me, means that I believe in Jesus and strive to do God's Will for me. I believe in Jesus because I have seen him face to face. I do not equate him to Him, BTW, Posey. I don't feel that any of the above (not directing that at anyone in particular, Running Wolf) is trying to turn anybody off the path they are on, just to really get you to THINK about why they are on that path. You know, open your minds a bit. God Bless. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 10:07:00 AM
From Authorid: 6860
I believe that my mind is open, which is why I am trying different spiritual paths. There are so many more religions out there than Christianity, and that is just NOT something that I believe in. I don't believe that God is a being and the Creator of everything, and I definitely don't believe that I should spend my life serving Him. I have my own standards to live up to, and I'm not going to try and satisfy some higher beings expectations of me, when I can't say conclusively, for me personally, that he even exists. I also have a hard time relating to it because I have never had a God, or Jesus, or Angel experience. Does that mean that if I have one later on, I still won't be Christian? I don't know. But I do know that at this stage in my life, Christianity is NOT right for me. That's where I stand, and if I keep getting told (again, not meant at anyone on here, just a generalization) that I need the Christian God in my life to make me happy and fulfill my life, then I will be completely turned off from that faith. I think that I am a good, decent person, and I think that that should matter more than whether I believe in some religions' god or whether I'm religious. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 10:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 6860
Oh, and I think that some Christians (and other people practicing different religions no doubt) need to also open their mind, and realize that not EVERYONE is going to believe in what you do, and you are not always going to be successful in trying to persuade those people to believe in what you do. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 10:54:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
BASE SAID::In my opinion Christianity today is less about the Bible and more about Church dogma. True Christianity was lost when people in the Churches used it to gain power and money, it's now about controlling the masses and not about God or the Bible. """ That is very true, in many many churches. I find the little churches are still about God, but they are getting hard to find. THIS is why I think God said, ," Work out your own salvation." This is why I think God said, STUDY to shew YOURSELF approved, rightly dividing the truth. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 11:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
I find it strange to see some of these people saying, " I just can't beleive that Jesus died for our sins, or I just cant believe that there is only one creator. Or so many of their other reasons, for not checking God out for themselves. YET I see that some on here have no problem in believing that they have had other lives. They can believe in a " Spirit Guide" yet NOT the greatest spirit of all that guides which is God? Some on this post believe in magic and that they can invoke a spirits to do thier will. They will speak to ANY spirit that talks to them, yet they CAN not beleive their is a God that created all of this?? Nor his son that has delivered us from darkness? They believe in all these things, yet tell us to PROVE God?? I find that just crazy. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 11:37:00 AM
From Authorid: 6860
I'd like to add that I'm not just bashing Christianity because I have nothing better to do. I do respect that religion, as I do all religions. I was baptized a Lutheran, and went to a Lutheran Church up until I was about 11 or 12. During that time, I do remember feeling uncomfortable going to Church, and not fitting in with everyone else. In Sunday School, I felt like an outsider, and during the service, I felt like I didn't belong. For me to continue to put myself in a situation where I feel uncomfortable is out of the question. It'd be like asking some of you to walk down a dark alley late at night in a dangerous neighborhood. Also, some of the things that were being preached were difficult for me to understand. Firstborn, I do understand the point that you make about people believing in past lives, etc. but not believing in God. I do understand, and I think that's a good point. However, everyone is different, and each person can understand different concepts better than others. Some of these concepts have been backed up by personal experiences, which is no different than your personal experiences that support your belief in Christianity. It's like school; some people just don't understand the concept of math, no matter how hard they try to understand it. Others, math comes quickly to them, and they understand it very well. Each person is different, and to tell someone that it’s crazy because they don't believe in your God is crazy in itself. Let me believe in what I believe, and let me lead my life in the manner that makes me happy and brings me peace. |
Date: 1/4/2004 11:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 15070
*eye roll*.........  |
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Date: 1/4/2004 11:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 15070
I am rolling my eyes at the entire post......not Running Wolf<----wanted to clarify |
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Date: 1/4/2004 12:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Running wolf, I'm not saying they are crazy not to believe in God. I"m just saying and if you will read my words that I THINK that is crazy. Either way you look at it its a supernatural belief, neither that has been proven nor disproven. I guess what I'm saying is how can one have such a belief in one supernatural thing, yet not have eyes opened to other supernatural beliefs? As for being in church, I still dont feel like I belong there, I still feel very uncomfortable there. I don't go to church any longer, but then God is with me no matter where I'm at. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 12:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
LOL at LSG. I feel its a honest question and I think all have played nice on this and not bashed anyone for their answers. Questioned them perhaps but not bashed. It would be the same if someone put up a post and said, why arent you wiccan? I'm sure if I said why I wasnt, then others would question as to why I could believe in one thing and not the other. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 12:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 48809
Deb, what are you talking about? I never said that anyone was trying to turn anybody off the path they are on... explain please. You said to open our minds... mine is wide open and I am right where I believe it is right for me to be... just as I assume you are where you want to be. I too have seen Jesus ..as have many others.. and since this is so it serves to prove that Jesus does not go only to the Christian people, but to those of all faiths.I know you never said that Jesus was partial only to Christians... but just wanted to clarify that. |
Date: 1/4/2004 1:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 26733
I'm not a Christian because my common sense tells me otherwise. I do believe in a higher being, it doesnt make it your being - but something. Matt aka  |
Date: 1/4/2004 1:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 1225
I was raised a Baptist. I had the Ten Commandments pounded into my skull from the get-go. I guess what brought me over from the land of make-believe was the realization that since the dawn of humanity there have literally been thousands of religions around the world. Most of them have since lapsed. The modern religions have existed in some form or another for only about 5,000 years. Dinosaur bones are dated at 65 million+ years. Human ancestors have been dated to as mush as 1 million years ago. Why would any God create a universe and then take a multimillion-year vacation and then come back? Why would a being who is all powerful, who created the cosmos, and knows what the future will be create such flawed beings? Would this God not have known that humans when given free-will would rebel? Why put himself through the trouble of millions upon millions of rebelling peons when you can dispense with creating them in the first place? There are other reasons which first lead me to leave the church but still believe in God, but their more political. It was only after I got away from the religious element that I saw the world for what it was.  |
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Date: 1/4/2004 1:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Posey, sorry I didn't make myself clear. I was responding to your statement re: God and Jesus being the same being, and I was stating that I don't believe that, i.e., that Jesus is God. This post asked for a poll. People have responded, and the overwhelming response was that people are not Christian because a Christian religion/people turned them off. Certainly, people may be able to understand math while others' don't. I would take that analogy even further and ask: Would you decide you couldn't learn math or didn't like math because you hated the math teacher? My other point I was going to touch on in this comment has already been addressed by FB :0 God Bless. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 1:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
I am rolling my eyes because you cannot debate "faith". The tone of this post implies one faith (Christianity) is right, and one set of beliefs (non-Christian), is wrong. (Also-I would have no problem with a post about "Why Are You A Wiccan"-I might roll my eyes at that too.....:P). |
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Date: 1/4/2004 2:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 48809
Ok Deb... thank you for your answer! |
| Date: 1/4/2004 6:05:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 62339...I agree with your love for the truth, I would never uphold something that I was uncertain about. |
Date: 1/4/2004 6:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 20750
I am my own religion!  |
| Date: 1/4/2004 6:30:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 Lady Spirit Guide, how does it imply anything? I just want to know why people aren't Christian. I could ask why people don't believe in Santa and I definitly know he's not real. If you're talking about my tone, then yes I BELIEVE it is true, and can't help the unintentional tone, just as you're tone implied you believe in Wica. I'm not here to fight with anyone, I just like to talk about my beliefs and think everyone should. There's nothing wrong with the truth, ever. No matter what it is(atheism, Jeudaism, Christianity or even Wicca). "Why can't we all just get alone?" |
| Date: 1/4/2004 6:36:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 Cool Moon Girl, what are "you" like? |
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Date: 1/4/2004 7:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
No FirstBorn you find it crazy they don't follow your religion. |
Date: 1/4/2004 8:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 62146
I have been batized I was born in a christian family and I just found the religion had no many pardoxes I could not understand and what they said was evil I considered good and what they considered good i would consider evil. You see I am just not a christian no matter how many time you batize me. I don't hate it and I respect those who are christian it is their belife and their life they can belive what they want.  |
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Date: 1/4/2004 8:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 62146
But this is my life and althouygh I use to belive I can belive what I want I don't have to try and belive something I can't understand. But like everything christianity has it's good and bad moments I belive some things it says like "do onto other as you would like done to you" But alot of things I can't get. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 8:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
hello rod tod, and just when I thought you were through with attacking the person and sticking to the post. HUMMMMMMMMm guess I was wrong and of course your wrong as usual. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 8:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 15319
Could someone tell me why my reply was deleted, or do I need to re-post it? |
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Date: 1/4/2004 9:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Really, TDA, I agree. I read it and didn't see anything wrong with it. God Bless. |
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Date: 1/4/2004 9:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I didnt see it TDA, so I cant say why . |
| Date: 1/4/2004 9:17:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 It wasn't me, I don't remember exactly what you said but I don't remember it being offensive, go ahead and repost maybe there was an error. |
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Date: 1/5/2004 10:02:00 AM
From Authorid: 15070
o.k.-I'll answer. I was a life-long Christian. My Parents taught Sunday School, as an Adult I taught Sunday School, we were Fundamentalist Christians, and very firm Bible-believing people. I started to question some Christian teachings which were supposed to be absolute. I was met with resistance, because I was told it was "Satan" who was trying to "turn my eyes from God". Reader's Digest Version> I believe Our Creator gave us these incredible brains, to question, and I cannot accept that whole groups of people (Native Anericans, Buddists, Jews, ect) are doomed to an eternity of torment because Jesus is the only way to Heaven. Besdies, I started to see Religion as more of a political organization, with alterior motives, than a relationship with my Creator(s). I am still searching for my answers, and everyone will ultimately find their own truth. |
Date: 1/5/2004 11:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 13283
When I lost my faith for a couple of years , it was because of all the crap I had to put up with . I realized I was not as strong as I thought I was . It was a test and I failed . I am so much stronger now . Nothing phases me . This is kinda funny . Every time I ask God not put more burdens onto my shoulders (enough already ) . He adds more . I have learned to not complain and to keep my big mouth shut . Razzy aka  |
Date: 1/6/2004 1:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 61928
There are atheists who are just angry with god because he killed their puppy or didn't get them into the right prep school and then there are "atheists" who've weighed the evidence and found the entity commonly referred to as "god" as a ridiculous improbability.  |
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Date: 1/6/2004 1:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 61928
From the author: "The one thing that really did if for you" That's a huge part of the problem with your thinking. If one thing made you an atheist, you're not an atheist, you're a disillusioned theist. |
Date: 1/6/2004 2:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
What most don't stop and realize is, that the Bible was written by many different people over MANY years. It was NOT written by God, it was written by MAN, although it is "inspired" by God. That doen't necessarily mean that EVERYTHING that the author wrote, was God's true ideas. Man's fallicy probably came into it more then once. It should NOT be used as a "This is EXACTLY how it is, with no call to question". It should be use to guide you, and to help you understand. When Christians realize this, and accept it, then mybe they can loosen up, to an extent. But, I also feel that a person's religion should be between them, and their God, and allow other people the same courtesy.  |
| Date: 1/6/2004 7:02:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 I think that most Christians know that the Bible was written by multiple authors Crash, it would be silly to write the same story 4 times if there was only 1 author, plus they(for the most part) bear the names of their authors. And what do you mean by many years, I would call it very few, but until you use numbers it's pretty vague. The actual number is at most 30 and more likley 10 or 20 and it wasn't written across that time, but Mark first then Matthew and Luke at around the same time and then Jon's a little later. The others (between Jon and Revelations) are a little less concrete, but Revelations wasn't too far off, because it was written during Jon's excile which ended at the death of the King (who's name slips my mind at the moment), which can be dated. So the period of time is like me writing about the Vietnam War, that isn't much cause for doubt. If I did so and then passed it around veterans could verify that what I had said was accurate or not. Thank you for bringing up the issue though Crash, many Christians should really study up more on these things before they go around preaching. |
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Date: 1/6/2004 7:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
For the New Testament, yes. The Old Testament, it was written, theoretically, since the beginning of time. |
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Date: 1/6/2004 8:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 15319
My reply has been replaced in this post for some peculiar reason.... |
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Date: 1/7/2004 1:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Firstborn atleast some one believes it. |
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Date: 1/7/2004 5:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
That's a good point Slappy white! |
Date: 1/7/2004 10:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 62344
well if you look at the meaning of Christianity and what it stands for (to become Christlike) Then yes I do my best to be a Christian. But as a religion no I am not a Christian. I dont want to be part of a group that think that they are right and every other possibility is wrong. My heart doesnt work that way and I try my best to do what makes my heart happy.  |
Date: 1/7/2004 11:06:00 AM
From Authorid: 62060
The only problem I have with religion is when it is imposed upon others. Religion has been used as a means for control for centuries - just like belief in 'the Party' in communism. I would describe myself as a Christian, but with no denomination. My faith is between myself and God, and when I die I want to be judged by that, not what some supposed human 'church leader' dictates.  |
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Date: 1/7/2004 6:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
Applauds 62344 62040 |
Date: 1/7/2004 11:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 62512
I was raised as a christain but I was never intresred in it and couldn't relate to the beliefs. I'm a Wiccan because i share the beliefs not becaus emy parents did, if that makes any sense  |
Date: 1/8/2004 6:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 50435
Skipping the reading of the replies, as I could probably tell you what they all say just by looking at the name, I'll go directly to answering the question posed in the post: I'm not prone to having one pulled over on me, however elaborate the scheme might be.  |
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Date: 1/8/2004 10:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
If I may, thank you, 62344 and 62060, for your understanding of the question as asked and your honesty in answering. God Bless. |
| Date: 1/8/2004 11:59:00 AM From Authorid: 54247 Good points, Koolade and Deb about 62344 and 62060. Actually, I know that I am more comfortable attending a multi-Protestant church on a military base. I even volunteer and help the other services. I respect all churches - personally believe God had to send different perspectives in order to meet our needs. We are all sooo different. RAT |
Date: 1/8/2004 2:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 7830
well, im not athiest, but Im not Christian for a simple reason. The belief system that I have works fine for me. I feel no need to be a Christian.  |
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Date: 1/8/2004 7:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 36754
So are we supposed to stay ignorant? It's like the story of creation. Eve isn't supposed to go near the tree or how dare her eat fruit from it. She asks questions and they arent answered until a snakes says that she could find the answers to all her questions. She was ignorant. Have you heard of essay "The Cave", by the great philosopher, Plato. As a whole men are placed into a cave. They are chained and made to face only towards the back f the cae wall. Not allowed to look to the person beside them or towards the back of them. They don't realize it (becaus ethey can't) that there is a wall behind them and a fire is behind it. Other men are holding up objects, lets use a bird for example, over the top of the wall... All the chained men see is the shadow created from the bird on the back wall of the cave. The only see a ghost image of what a Real bird looks like... they don't see the real thing, just a shadow of it. Well, it was told that a man broke loose. He climbed ove rthe wall and saw all these object. I light from the fire hurt his eyes becuase he ws used to complete darkness. He realized that what he saw as a bird wasn't a bird at all. He sees what a Real bird looked like along with all the other objects he saw at the back of the cave. The loose man finally desides to venture out of the cave. the Sun light is so bright that he can barly open his eyes. For what he was seeing in the Cave wasn't the Real thing either... It was just what the men that were holding the objects over the wall portrayed them to be. When he stepped out of the Cave he saw the Real bird. A Real, Live, Flying bird. He wanted to share with his family and friend what he saw and experienced outside of the Cave. So he does back in the cave, his eyes have trouble getting used to the atmosphere made by the fire. It was darker then it used to be. Then the men climbed back over the wall to reach his family... He coudln't see. and his eyes never were able to adjust to the darkest back of the cave. Why can't we be like Cain... Why are we punished for knowledge. Eve was banished from the Garden of Eden because she had knowlege. You had to be ignorant and not want to know anything. To me this is wrong and degrating. |
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Date: 1/9/2004 9:07:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
Well said Sparrowhawk... very wise. That story is a fine example of how we can be chained to other people's ideas... other people's views of the world. Knowledge and the pursuit of it is our birthright and we should never be punished for seeking Truth. Only our personal knowledge and experience means anything. To me it is criminal to keep people chained in ignorance. |
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Date: 1/9/2004 10:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Sorry sparrow but that dont fly.""For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."" They weren't kicked out of the garden of eden because they wanted knowledge. As you can see by the above verse, God did not want them knowing EVIL. If what you say was true then why does God tell us, ""For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding."Wise men lay up knowledge: but the mouth of the foolish is near destruction.Proverbs 19  ¶Also, that the soul be without knowledge, it is not good;Proverbs 24:4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.IF GOD, didnt want them to have knowledge, then why was adam able to do this< ""Genesis 2 0 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field" Now thats alot of animals for a dumb man to name. God did not want adam and eve to know EVIL. For knowing evil man can turn to sin. The garden of eden was a place without SIN. And they had already sinned against God by going against what he asked them not to do. THEY had everything, perfect conditons but it wasnt enough apparently. So it just goes to prove that from the begining man has ALWAYS wanted what he isnt suppose to have. |
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Date: 1/9/2004 10:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Koolade on one hand you say,""we should never be punished for seeking Truth. "" and then on the other hand you say, ""To me it is criminal to keep people chained in ignorance. "" I have and do seek the truth, ,but because MY truth that I have found, isnt your truth, then its people being chained in ignorance? What happened to the other part of your comment that says," Only our personal knowledge and experience means anything." YET by your words you blast a christians personal knowledge and experience. I think koolade speak with forked tongue. |
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Date: 1/9/2004 10:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
One thought, why aren't you asking why we aren't Muslim or Hindu? And does geography have much to do with religion? |
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Date: 1/9/2004 10:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
FB! when I say..."we should never be punished for seeking Truth." and "To me it is criminal to keep people chained in ignorance." I am not contradicting myself. I stand by both statements. And! In the reply you are talking about (which was in reply to Sparrowhawk's) I did not mention Christianity. If you put that interpretation on it then that is your look out. Yes your personal knowledge is relevant to you... you say you have a personal relationship with your God.. fine! But it is YOUR experience... and not everyone's. Not to let people discover their own truth by their own experience is tantamount to keeping them in ignorance. As to your remark about my speaking with forked tongue I say look to your own words as they trip off yours. |
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Date: 1/9/2004 11:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
"The garden of eden was a place without SIN." - The tree was in the garden, the snake was in the garden. Sin was there, your claim does not hold. |
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Date: 1/10/2004 6:34:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
Good point 62118 |
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Date: 1/10/2004 8:54:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Sorry rod tod but it does hold, because up until then sin was not in the garden. So what if the snake was there? Through the snakes words he got eve to sin by eating of that tree. Koolade, in sparrowhawks reply by mere mention of eve being bandished, he is of course talking about Gods people and apparently God of the bible and the reason why they think that eve was banned. So your reply that you said was to sparrows comment was replying about the christian faith. The point is God had them leave because had they ate of the tree of life, then they would have lived forever, but lived for ever in sin. Thats why they were barred from the garden, not because of knowledge as they had knowledge. Contrary to popular belief, God tells us to study, he tells us search for truth. Only a hand full of religions today, have a tissy fit if you look outside of their so called handbook to the bible, and some even have a fit if you look to the bible too closely and not THEIR handbook that is suppose to explain the bible, but in fact many times discredits the bible for their own man made doctrin and thoughts. I could name a few of these denominations that do this, but then that would be putting them down wouldnt it? I mean even THOUGH they dont want you to have knowledge, we shouldnt use their name? WEll I have to go to work, then my daughter is coming down so this will have to wait until tonight or tomorrow. |
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Date: 1/10/2004 9:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
FB I was referring to Sparrowhawk's story of the people in the cave who weren't allowed to see reality, i.e. the truth. There are so many religions that can be inferred by that story, but I wasn't picking on Christianity. The same could apply to Islam or Judaism. |
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Date: 1/10/2004 9:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
... or even politics. |
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Date: 1/10/2004 11:20:00 AM
From Authorid: 36754
evil you don't experience evil, how do you knwo if you're sinning or not |
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Date: 1/10/2004 1:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
To sin is to go against God's Will FOR YOU. Only in the truthful, realistic discernment of your own soul can you realize if you are sinning. Good is that which is God's Will; Evil is that which is against it. I don't believe that that necessarily computes to what HUMAN BEINGS percieve as "good" or "evil". Ignorance is to not have knowledge. If one has knowledge that what was taught them that the Bible means is not right, then to step away from those teachings in a search for knowledge is certainly wise. But to step away from the whole Bible due to being taught the Bible in an unbelieveable way is IGNORING (disregarding) what one could find in it. And what a loss of knowledge that would be for one to totally disregard the Bible, not based on their desire to acquire knowledge, but due to a bias with the way it was taught them. God Bless. |
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Date: 1/10/2004 6:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Koolade, then forgive me, my bad. Deb I agree with you all the way. A lot of people will not touch the bible for the knowledge simply because Their friends laugh at anything that has to do with God. OR they take one scriputre and run with it, and because they dont like THAT scripture, they wont even try to see what else the bible has to say. So many reasons. |
Date: 1/10/2004 7:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 61912
Im willing to chance hell, because I have more faith that all religions are superstitious non-sense than anyone could ever have in god....  |
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Date: 1/11/2004 8:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Firstborn did the snake decieve Adam and Eve? Is deception a Sin? If so Sin existed in the garden, if not why did God curse the snake? |
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Date: 1/11/2004 9:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
62118... great point! |
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Date: 1/11/2004 10:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
In my way of thinking the "snake" is a metaphor which stands for something that, when looked at as something which, if used as God intended, is not at all sinful, but when that "snake" raised its head and said to Eve, "eat", and she did, gave rise to human beings deciding on their own what should be good or bad, i.e., gave rise to sin. God Bless. |
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Date: 1/11/2004 5:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
Did it give rise to free will? |
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Date: 1/11/2004 6:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Rod perhaps you need to LOOK at what I write, I said, UP UNTIL THEN, there had been no sin. But even then God didnt say they sinned, but because they NOW KNEW both good and evil instead of just good, the potential for sin was there, so they could not stay in the garden of eden, as they might have partaken of the tree of life and then they would have lived forever,which our spirtis do anyway but our bodies dont. Koolade it didnt give rise to freewill, if the didnt alread HAVE freewill, then they wouldnt have been FREE to chose to EAT of that tree. WE have always had free will. |
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Date: 1/11/2004 6:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
No, Koolade, having God give us a part of him, i.e., the soul, and two other pulling forces, i.e., the spirit (mind) and body, is "what" gave rise to free will. God Bless. |
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Date: 1/11/2004 7:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 36754
I think the snake was there to represent the temptation of sin. Like if someone where to say, Try robbing a bank, you'll get more money. It stinks that a snake represents deceit. And if we have free will, why are you tring to prove that Christianity is so much better. |
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Date: 1/11/2004 7:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
LOL hahahah this is crazy LOL |
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Date: 1/12/2004 10:33:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
no one is trying to prove that christianity is so much better sparrow, so why are you trying to prove so hard that its nothing? |
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Date: 1/12/2004 1:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
Actually, the Bible says "Serpent", not snake..it could very well have been a lizard. *shrugs* |
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Date: 1/12/2004 5:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 36754
Koolade is right. It's an endless discusion that will continue for forver. I'm done. |
Date: 1/12/2004 8:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 58809
I was never really given the choice of wanting to be a Christian or not, it was just sort of a given that I'd be one. My parents were one and I went to a Catholic school...so it was understood that I'd live this sort of life. But now that I realize that I have more of a say in my faith, I question WHY I remain a Christian, because there are some things that I can't seem to bring myself to believe in. The reasons for my being a Christian are still somewhat sketchy...  |
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Date: 1/12/2004 8:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
Sparrowhawk! Me too! Let's get outa here. There's a bar down the road... race yah! |
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Date: 1/13/2004 10:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Devils own being raised in a christain home, or attending christian schools doesnt MAKE one a christian. Believing in the Lord Jesus, as Gods son makes you a christian, or follower of Christ, IN YOUR OWN HEART. If you dont believe that, or believed that in your heart, you were never a christian, just a pew sitter. |
| Date: 1/15/2004 6:37:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62510 Sparrowhawk, (sorry to be away so long, I'm ill) in the story of Adam and Eve God does not want people to be ignorant. It says that God took man around and taught him about the animals and everything else, he wanted people to learn. The tree was called the tree of the knowledge of right and wrong. He didn't want them to judge eachother and know of evil. They were not ignorant beforehand, just happy. And yes I have read Plato's Cave. However Plato was refering to Socrates in that book. Socrates struck out against polytheism, when he proved it logically impossible for there to be more than one God. The Greeks sentanced him to death. So he was talking about ignorance, but not the ignorance OF religion, man's ignorance ABOUT religion, which I fully agree with. Thanks for you comments. |
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Date: 1/16/2004 7:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Sorry you have been ill, hope you feel better soon. |
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