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Date: 12/29/2003 8:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 42259
I think it would be all right for a preacher to have a job outside of the church, because lots of times they really don't get paid too much.As in how much they should get I have no idea.  |
Date: 12/29/2003 9:02:00 AM
From Authorid: 13729
I think they should make next to nothing as a preacher.....An outside job would be fine.....  |
Date: 12/29/2003 9:16:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Ok this is my first and last reply until I get home from work. Praier Dawn, I think if they choose to work outside the church that is up to them. Ritzbe, why should they make nothing? Isnt any laborer, worthy of a wage?  |
Date: 12/29/2003 9:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 13283
I think a preacher should live and lead a humble life . I dont like it when a charity / church has a preacher/ executive driving expensive cars and wearing outlandish suits . I think they should keep it simple and make enough money to live comfy . Razzy aka  |
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Date: 12/29/2003 9:25:00 AM
From Authorid: 13283
I hated it when Jim and Tammy Faye Baker had multiple costly cars , a mansion and an air conditioned dog house for the family pet . They got greedy and out of hand . They got thrown in jail and people stopped giving their money to a bad cause . Any charity or church should strive to have over 90 percent of the donations going to actually help people . Preacher and Admin costs (salary ) should be kept around to like 1 to 3 percent of expenses . Razzy aka |
Date: 12/29/2003 9:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 17275
I think they should live comfortably. I agree with Razz the Bakers were way over compensated. They chose to serve God and went way overboard.  |
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Date: 12/29/2003 10:28:00 AM
From Authorid: 53961
Firstborn you know my beliefs on this on. I think that being a preacher, just like any postion in a church, should be a "calling" and a person should be called by the Lord to fulfill this calling for a certain period of time. This includes organist, teachers or anyone. The only ones who should get paid are custodians and their job need to have help from the members as well. Other paid positions would include administration in the main office of the church and then there should be callings issued there as well. Think of the good the Lord's money could do in the communities if it wasn't all used up for salaries and benefits, etc. Not to be bragging, but I have four callings in my church and I receive no monetary returns for any of them. I love being able to serve in whatever capacity I can.  |
Date: 12/29/2003 10:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 62249
Well, I dunno bout u guys, but my old priest (in fact, the reason we left the church), he was whacko. Half his sermon was about how we don't give enough money tot he church. And that was bull. We were giving more than required in the first place, or else the church wouldn't have the nice stuff it does. And second, about HIS money. IDK what he does with his share, lol but one time he tokt he money out of the missions collection and bought superbowl tickets.  |
Date: 12/29/2003 11:01:00 AM
From Authorid: 62310
I totally agree with Paula. I also have a calling in my church and don't get a salary. But I get rewarded in ways that are better than a paycheck, blessings. Princess Rhiannon  |
Date: 12/29/2003 11:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 16845
My great grandfather (Here's a shocker ya'll  ) was a preacher...and dude...they had their house freaking paid for and he made a nice salary..lol (Danny's laughing at my 'and dude' comment)  |
Date: 12/29/2003 12:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 61893
Yep, I agree 100% with Paula. I am even gonna go on to say that there are alot of crooked preachers out there also. I know of one situation were they said they were rasing money for a new born that was very pre-mature. People opened their hearts and wallets up 2-3 times a week for 3 months, to find that the preachers was sticking the money in his own wallet. How about those preachers that preach on Wed., Sundays..etc and drinking alcohol, cheating, beating on their wives and cussing on the weekend. yep, I know a few of those also. I know that there are honest and truely great preachers out there, and God will take care of them. Great post!  |
Date: 12/29/2003 1:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 62478
 ive seen many preachers drive mersadies and I have heard the stories of my grandfather (he was a misionary on an island off of Austriala, no running water or electricy). My feelins on the matter at hand are this....All effort should be rewarded what kind of reward should be up to the person in question, if a preacher does a good job and helps people then he should be rewareded with what he thinks is a good "prize". If its money, then so be it, he should make what he deserives. But money isn't everything ....deathletgo  |
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Date: 12/29/2003 5:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Ice queen, yes they did and its a shame. |
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Date: 12/29/2003 5:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
RAzzy, yes comfortable, I wonder how much the popes robes cost? Jim and tammy did get greedy, they did spend money that could have been spent for Gods work. |
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Date: 12/29/2003 5:38:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Hey paula, now the churches I've went to so far have been small home town country churches that are basically run by the preacher. I feel that if its a BIG big church, ya know thousands of people, and they need several men/women to do certain jobs, if these jobs take up more than eight hours a day of their time, I beleive that should be compensated for it. However there are things in the church as helps, ya know little things here or there that the congregation should vollenteer for. I think the preacher should use part of the tithes to of course pay for the building, the lights, water and a monthly or week salary for them. In the churches I've been to, as I said they were small. The preacher had an income, not out of bounds, he left a paper tacked up on the board at the back of the church each week, with a list of how much came in, what the money went for ect. |
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Date: 12/29/2003 5:39:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Mc Bacon, taking it out of the collection that is ear marked for other things is wrong. But to take it out of his part of the salary he earns, then it isnt wrong. |
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Date: 12/29/2003 5:41:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Princess Rhiannon, I'm sure all agree that the preacher and others should be called of God to do what they are doing. And bless anyone that vollenters their time. Yes its a blessing. |
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Date: 12/29/2003 5:42:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Becky, yes, in the little town in texas where I lived there was always a house either attached to the church or by the church that was provided for the preacher. |
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Date: 12/29/2003 5:44:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Spoiled baby, yep there are all kinds of preachers. And to God will those that are not doing right, will answer to. |
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Date: 12/29/2003 5:44:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Death let go, no, money isnt everything, but we have to have it to pay bills, medical, household, ect. |
Date: 12/29/2003 5:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
I'm gonna start my own cultcoughreligion so I can have billions of dollars.  |
Date: 12/29/2003 8:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
LOL@Base. FB-I cannot answer this accept to say, I think a Minster can work until the chirch finances are such that he can afford not to work, and devote her/his entire time to the ministry. Now, as to a Pastor's wages. I cannot say, because I think it would depend on a number of factors. Whatever wage would be significant to cover a decent lifestyle & allow the Pastor to study & teach full time, while providing for their family, I guess.  |
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Date: 12/29/2003 8:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
BTW-I meant "Church", not "chirch" Shheeze..........:P |
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Date: 12/29/2003 9:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Ordinary people have to work hard each day to survive. Ordinary people have to struggle to make ends meet and pay their bills. So to reach ordinary working people, God uses ordinary working people to do His work. Working people like Jesus. Like Paul. Because the average person doesn’t drive the latest model car, or wear fine suits, or stay in good hotels. And God’s messenger to ordinary people must be an ordinary person themselves. According to the Bible, God asks for our hearts and souls, not money. However, most people give with a more generous spirit if they believe that donation is being used to help feed and clothe the needy, not line the pockets of anyone, the robes and trappings of the Catholic Church are indeed an excellent example. All those treasures would feed many children in third world countries. How dare they "store treasures on earth", made me rethink and redefine what I believe in and know to be true. It's stealing and that's all there is to that. A modest income, perhaps, but nothing more than that.  |
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Date: 12/29/2003 9:50:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Base, LOL, ya think? LOL LSG, Exactly, take not more than you need to live, as I beleive that a pastor that is really going to feed their church needs to be in the word all the time and not be hindered by a nine to five job. Now some small churches dont really generate enough money so that the pastor can stop working, but some do but I think once they take advantage as did the bakers and as do so many more of the pastors, then God needs to shut them down. |
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Date: 12/29/2003 9:55:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Brenda, ,exactly a modest income. Not gold bathroom fixtures, not lemmo's , not rolexs and fine robes. I can see the bigger churches, those with thousands of people in, I can see the televanglist, needing money to reach people via tv or radio, but IF they are not also feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, helping to find houses for the homeless and visting those in prison and taking care of the orphans like God said to do, I think their ministry is not a well one. Yes, God said preach the gospel, but he didn't say neglect the other things. Any preacher worth his oats, will teach his/her congreation what God says about prosperity and tithe, but then will do like my preacher did, he left a basket by the back door, with envelopes so that people could tithe if they could and not feel bad if the collection plate came around and they had nothing to give that week. I think that was the right way to do it. |
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Date: 12/29/2003 10:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
I think so too. The giving is being questioned simply because of the past abuses. We have to see and know that others are being helped. The world is suffering, for compassion. For that old time generous spirit where people fed others, no one "set stores" on earth. People are starving for religion and a ministry that truely reaches out to the world, all the people, with no definition other than giving and knowing that their gift has done what gives them most meaning. I remember giving a nickel or dime, whatever I could, and I remember the time I forgot my nickel, and the pastor, knowing, pulled it from his pocket, and gave it back to the community. Such a small token, but where is the compassion and "knowing" those you minister God's word to. Seems like it has become to cold, to big and maybe there is the answer. Touch the soul of each individual. People are starving, for want of real truth, and knowing that their ministry is truely "heeding the call". Seems so simple. And yet it is unfulfilled. I know it can happen again, it has before. Why is there so much deceit and abuse that people leave churches, have little hope left that God "can only be bought" for a price. And "anything" can be forgiven over and over and over... |
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Date: 12/29/2003 10:42:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Brenda, I think so many do start with compassion but then things start going so good they say, "I can reach many people by doing this or that" But then pride gets in the way, then they allow themselves to THINK they need expensive suits, cars, houses, fixtures to look good for the media, and then they fall. Sure there are many churches today that are still going strong, but I'm thinking that some of them are still going because they ARE feeding and taking care of the people. I also dis like churches that say, oh you need to be a member. Jesus didnt ask if people were members, nor did he ever say, go out and make members and then you can help them. I know my daughter was once in a bind, and we didnt have extra to spare and we were in a different state, so knowing God , she went to a church in utah for help. She was told because she was NOT a member or bapstied in their religion that they could not help her. She just flat told them, "so my kids go hungry tonight and cold tonight because I'm not a member? I think you need to talk to Jesus and see what he would say about it." Jesus talked alot about showing favortism, he even ate with what the world calls sinners. When he fed the five thousand he didnt ask if they were members. Many that are seeking God and or help from so called Godly people are turning away from God simply because HIS people are not acting like Jesus would. Jesus said, if you see a brother in need and you can meet that need and you do not, then whoa to you. I personally don't want to hear that whoa. |
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Date: 12/30/2003 6:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
I am incensed at the idea of a Woman reaching out, and being told that because she is not a member of THAT religion, or THAT congregation, the church cannot help feed her family. *sigh* that is hateful. I remember when BAND-AID (a collection of famous recording artists, gathered by Bob Geoff to raise money for the starving in Ethopia) were busy raising money for the starving, and a very famous tele-preacher said that Jesus would disapprove because these Africans were not Christian (that is a Muslim country, I guess), and they were paying for "their sins" of "disbelief", and so the "money being raised by the Godless musicans" were feeding people who "serve Satan". I was a practicing Christian at the time, and I was MORTIFIED! |
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Date: 12/30/2003 9:19:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
LSG, it makes me angry that people do that. And what you tell about the televanglist doing that, when those people were trying to feed a starving country is just plain awful. God said the rain and the sun fall on both the ungodly and the righteouse. God said that we are not to show favortism, especially when someone is in need. I don't see how people can do that, I dont care what race or creed a person is. So what if they did not know or want to know God? They were trying to do a good thing and as Jesus told the disiples when they complained that people that WERE not followers of Jesus were casting out demons in Jesus name, Jesus said he that is not against us is with us. OR basically something such as that. God said feed the people, clothe the people, love the people, he didnt say just *our own*. Some times I wonder at the ignorance of man kind dont you? We dont agree on lots of things LSG but I see we do agree that people should not behave this way. |
Date: 1/7/2004 9:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 160
My daughter worked at an office where the manager (male) had put in for an assignemnt in a church. He told my daughter that the money he would make as a minister was far better than he could make in a secular job, although I cannot be sure I think she said that it was in the $70,000 a year area. There has also been a wide area of misuse by people that are in a trusted position. My sister remembers a minister in MIAMI LAKES, FL who had been embezzeling contributions for a long time before he was caught and by that time he was caught he had stolen quite a large sum from his congregation.  |
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Date: 1/8/2004 8:25:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Pammy jo, in a very large congregation, say over 1,000 people I can see where a postion might take a lot of work and therefore be paid a health wage, but seventy thousand?? Wow thats a lot of money by my standards at least. And then that guy taking money, thats just sad. They will of course answer to God for these things. |
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Date: 1/8/2004 9:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 160
Unfortuantly so will a lot of people that are associating themselves with false religion. That is why the scriptures say to "Get out of Babylon and quit touching the unclean things so as not to share in her plagues and destruction" |
Date: 1/9/2004 11:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 30742
The Bible teaches that the body of believers should take care of their teachers ( Preachers). Some Pastors struggle to make ends meat and some don't. Paul and the disciples certainly did not get rich spreading the gospel. Paul was a tent maker for his income. But the Bible is clear, we should take care of our spiritual leaders, a true teacher ( preacher) of the Lord IS NOT in it for the money. Gal 6:6, 1Cor 9 -12 and 1 Tim 5:17-18.  |
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Date: 1/9/2004 11:56:00 AM
From Authorid: 30742
The Bible is also clear that there will be those who are in it for the money and they are false teachers, as before Christ returns, false prophets, teachers, doctrines will be in abundance.1 Tim 3, 1 Tim 4, 1 Tim 6, 2 Tim 3 ( ect). |
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Date: 1/9/2004 8:44:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Pammy that is true, However, I guess false religion is basically in the eye of the beholder? I mean take for instance that are those that I think are false religions and I'm not going to name them here, but to them, what I believe in is a false religion. Now I believe that Jesus died for my sins, that he was the ONLY begotton son of God and that when I die I WILL go to be with the Lord. YET as far as doctrin goes, in some of the things I believe and that I believe are scriptural, there are other denominations that JUST dont see it. So the dilemma *SP* here is, which are false and which just havent been enlightened by the whole bible? Could be why Jesus said, ""John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." MS morality: That is very true, preachers that are of true heart are not in it for the money as many struggle just to make ends meet. YET there are some that profit hardy that are teaching false doctrin. Thanks for stopping by. Hope all is well with you and yours. |
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Date: 1/12/2004 9:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 160
No, it isn't in the eye of the beholder. Jesus himself set the standard for pure worship, if we deviate from this course then we are in line for destruction. Remember the scripture "The blind leading the blind" And Jesus said that many would come to him claiming that they did many powerful works in his name yet he tells them to get away from him that he never knew them. So back to the basics, Jesus told us what to look for and set righteous standards as to how we are to worship. |
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Date: 1/12/2004 10:44:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Pammy yes, its in the eye of the beholder simply because on one hand you say we cant diviate from the course, that basically what is in the bible is the word of God and I believe that, however, take us for instance. Lets go to those scriptures about the 144,000 I see what it says, I know what it says, yet its of your belief that only 144,000 will go to heaven and thats not what it says at all. To me people that preach that only 144,000 are going to heaven, are teaching a false doctrin as its not biblically supported. |
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Date: 1/12/2004 12:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 30742
While this post is not on doctrine, but the subject was addressed I would like to comment . Doctrine is discussed through out scripture and while Jesus told us, many would choose the easy way that leads to destruction, we see this in all the various " religions" where people like to pick and choose what they like and don't like. For example the New age movement likes to pick out certain things they like that the bible teaches, such as, Judge not and love others as yourself, but they reject the part that Jesus is the only way to God. Which is what Jesus himself said, or that most recently I had a young girl tell me she likes to sleep with women, and if the bible called it sin, then she would just have to find some other religion that taught what she liked.....The same comes into play with the body of believers. There is an apostasy in the body of Christ, Christians who pick and choose which "doctrines" they believe are important and reject that " doctrine" is important. This goes against the very word of God that emphasizes we watch our doctrine, that in the last days there would be much false doctrine ( in the body of Christ). So, yes doctrine is highly important for we can not pick and choose. Because of the rampant false teachings in the church, many are not following the word of God but doctrines of men. Any teacher who is teaching false doctrine will be punished most severely than those who are not teaching. False doctrines blinds the true saving message of the one and true gospel. The one and only true Jesus Christ. I lost one dear friend due to a false gospel. The gospel is faith in Christ Jesus alone and our good deeds or commandment keeping, which is what is taught in false groups. Good deeds and commandments keeping and wealth and the health and prosperity message are leading other straight to the gates of hell. Why? Because this is false doctrine and people like to believe what their itches ears want to hear. Jesus said: many will say to me, I prophesy, cast out demons, feed the poor and yet Christ will say: away I never knew you." Hell is real and not every one who professing Christ will enter God's kingdom. Relativism is most rampant in the body of Christ, but Jesus Christ told us that the tares would be among the wheat, but not to remove them, but at the end, the angels will gather the wheat and will throw the tares into the fire. So, fb I disagree with your teaching that doctrine is not important, for that goes against the very word of God. Of course I have seen many leave the faith as hardened atheist because they thought the christian life they would " prosper" and found only trials, presecution and abandonment, just as the Bbile promises will happen for anyone who lives for Christ Jesus. "Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persever in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers". 1Tim 4:16. |
Date: 1/12/2004 1:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 160
I didn't look, are we in religion or debate? Here goes, When Jesus was on earth he spoke of a "Little flock" Luke 2:32 Have no fear, little flock, because YOUR Father has approved of giving YOU the kingdom. 3 Ancient men of faith like Job had only a partial understanding of the resurrection. It was Jesus Christ who shed full light on this wonderful hope. He showed the key role that he himself plays when he said: “He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life.” (John 3:36) Where will that life be enjoyed? For the vast majority of those who exercise faith, it will be on earth. (Psalm 37:11) However, Jesus told his disciples: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.” (Luke 12:32) God’s Kingdom is heavenly. Hence, this promise means that a “little flock” would have to be with Jesus in heaven as spirit creatures. (John 14 , 3; 1 Peter 1:3, 4) What a glorious prospect! Jesus further revealed to the apostle John that this “little flock” would number just 144,000.—Revelation 14:1.The book of Revelation also speaks of a "Great Crowd of people, which no man could number" coming out of th Great Tribulation. Two sets of people. One has the hope of life in heaven and the other has the hope of life on the earth. And those that go to heaven will go there in the instant they die as it was said "In the twinkling of an eye" |
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Date: 1/12/2004 1:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 160
And to borrow a comment that Base made recently. In a political campaign one candidate does not smear himself with lies, the opposer does that. Insert Jehovah as the good candidate and Satan as the opposer and his way of doing this is to thoroughly deceive people with false accusations through false doctrines. Pretty good at it I might add because the majority of people even when shown evidence that there doctrines are false continue to cling to them as if they were a lifesaver in a stormy ocean. And the reality is they are the thing that drags them under and drowns them. |
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Date: 1/15/2004 7:51:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Certainly ms morality, that not everyone that says did I not cast out demons in your name, or professes christ will make heaven but too many times people mis interpert those scriputres. Even in that day, people were casting out demons in Jesus name, one can do anything in the name of JESUS, but IF Jesus is NOT in their hearts, they are none of HIS. The name Jesus is higher than any name and by spiritual law anyone, born again or not can USE that name and apply that spirtual law and it will work. MANS doctrin is NOT important ms. morality, ONLY that of GOD is Important and only GOD can impart to us, the interpertation of HIs doctrin, only to GOD will we stand or fall. |
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Date: 1/15/2004 8:23:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Pammy JO, not so, see there you go again, grabbing at a little scripture here or there and attempting to put them together in a false manner. When interpreting any passage, it is important to understand its historical background. Jesus knew a major issue the apostolic Church would have to deal with would be the relationship of Jews and Gentiles within the Church (see Acts 10; 15). In John 10:16, Jesus is preparing his disciples for this problem by declaring "there will be one flock." So the sense of the passage is that Gentiles (the "other sheep" must unite with the faithful Jews (the "little flock" of Luke 12:32) to form the ONE people of God. As for the "great crowd" - Revelation 19:1 specifically declares that they are in heaven! So how can this phrase refer to those who will live forever on earth?Finally, all the redeemed will "reign" in the sense of having our dominion over nature restored that was lost at the Fall (Gen 1 6f; 3:17-19; Rev 5 f). We are all "priests" since we have direct access to God (1Pet 2f; Heb 4:14-16). Further, the New Testament teaches there is only ONE people of God. The idea of two distinct classes of Christians with two different destinies is simply not Biblical (see Mark 9:38-40; Rom 1; 12:4-8; Gal 3-9,26-29).Moreover, only one thing is needed to become a part of this ONE people of God - faith in Jesus Christ (John 6 8f). All genuine believers can look forward to spending eternity in loving fellowship with the Father and the Son (Rev 21:1-4; 22:1-5).In both Revelation chapters 7 and 14, a clear distinction is made between the 144,000 sealed Israelites and "every nation." If we take "every nation" to be literal, we should also take Israel to be literal.Also the location of the great crowd is in His temple (7:15). The location of the temple is clearly in heaven (11:19; 14:17). Pammy I agree with your statement, "Pretty good at it I might add because the majority of people even when shown evidence that there doctrines are false continue to cling to them as if they were a lifesaver in a stormy ocean. And the reality is they are the thing that drags them under and drowns them. "" Does this mean your not really here? ARe we all part of those living on earth now because wasnt this suppose to happen in 1975? The Watchtower's "prophet" claims to speak as God's "channel of communication." If this is true, we would expect that their message which they claim to be communicated from Jehovah, would always be the exact truth. Would a perfect God who doesn't change (Malachi 3:6) choose a channel which constantly has to change and update predictions - all in Jehovah's name? Ezekiel 13: 3,5,8 "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing! Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD." |
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Date: 1/15/2004 1:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 160
No, Jehovah does not change. His ways are the same unlike humans who change their minds constantly. But the light does shine brighter as time moves forward and as we see the outworking of the prophesies. You are entitled to your opinion/understanding. But Jesus did say, "have no fear little flock, the Father has approved of giving you the kingdom" Luke 12:32 |
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Date: 1/15/2004 1:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 160
Wait, I'll get back with this. I have a nail customer. |
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Date: 1/15/2004 7:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 160
sorry, I haven't stopped all day. Debbie, if you wish to believe that you have the truth then anything that I say will not change your mind so I am going to give up and move on. However having said that I want to tell you that I have respect for you because you are doing what you can to help people, you have a good heart. So when we bump into each other like ships in the night, I'll blow my horn and friendly helllllooooooo and you do the same, we can remain civil despite our differences. |
Date: 1/15/2004 8:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
I know my grandfather was a preaher, in Florida. The church had a houes, that he got to live in, rent free, and I THINK they paid the electric, but I'm not sure. Other than that, my grandfather worked, and provided their needs.  |
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Date: 1/16/2004 9:25:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Pammyjo, yes I think we all have a little doctrin differences and its been enlightening debating them, as always I count you as my friend and know that we both Love the Lord Jesus , so all is good. I'm not saying your not going to be with the LORD as I know you will. Hugs my friend. Crash, yes I know many that worked as well as preached, sometimes they just have to |
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Date: 1/26/2004 7:48:00 AM
From Authorid: 30742
Yes, FirstBorn man made doctrine is " False", that is why the Bible stresses to Watch your doctrine and life closley because may will show loyality to their favorite teachers ( pastor) or particular group.."Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persever in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers". 1Tim 4:16. I do not believe that you or I can be the judge if someone is going to be " saved". To the contrary, the Bible teaches much about those who are " decieved" into thinking they are going to spend in eternity with God, in relatiy they are damed to hell. There will be many who do not teach the Bible correctly, as the Bible is black and white, your either going to hell or your going to heaven. Those who deny Christ deity (Father Son and the Holy Spirit), those who teach another way to God, those who teach another Gospel, another Jesus will NOT enter the Kingdom of God, but only those who have recieved the gift of God. You can not have faith in any thing other than Christ. We are not even to discuss such issues with a " false apostle". No matter how much we love them, if they are leading others to hell, we are to sseperate from them, tell them the truth, if they refuse to listen, then we are to " have nothing to do with them". We must love the Lord so much that we abandon those who do not teach the " truth". " If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine [is disloyal to what Jesus Christ taught], do not receive him [do not accept him, do not welcome or admit him] into [your] house or bid him Godspeed or give him any encouragement. 2 John 10. Pam Jo, I believe you are a false apostle, as you deny the trinty and the gospel of Christ. You are as the Bible describes " A servant of satan's". I am not as "open minded as Debbie", your fate is in the Bible. Not my words or Debbie words, but the word of God. You do not use the same Word of God , for Charles Taze Russell, your founder added to the word of God and took away the " True" word to fit his man made doctrine. " And the Father leaves ALL judgement to His son ( Jesus), so that everyone will honor the Son, just as they Honor the Father ( Jehovah, But if you refure to honor the Son, then you are certainly not honoring the father who sent him". John 5 2-23. " And if anyone removes any of the words of this prohetic book, God will remove that person's share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book." Rev 22:19 |
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Date: 1/26/2004 11:10:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Yes I'm very opened minded to the scriputual teachings of the bible, I see nothing wrong with that. |
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