Date: 12/28/2003 1:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
I've been saying that for years.  |
Date: 12/28/2003 1:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 59940
I'd have to say I agree ^-^ FE  |
Date: 12/28/2003 1:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 50864
Each of us a totally responsible for what we chose to do or not do. We are the ones who decide. Putting the blame on music, books, video games and the like is utter nonsense  |
Date: 12/28/2003 2:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 60395
I think there are alot of reasons for suicide/murder , like mental disabilities.  |
Date: 12/28/2003 2:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 32133
i think its the parents fault and kids gettin bullied at school thats why they kill people and bring guns to school.but im sure a kid or 2 has decided he wants to be like Emenem and kill people or wants attention from there favorite music artist but thats very rare. i think parents like to think that there kids didnt have problems so they say "its not us its the music".  |
Date: 12/28/2003 3:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 62146
This is a very good point marilyn manson always has good points and this is defently one of them.  |
Date: 12/28/2003 3:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 42945
I agree with what you say about this hun...hugs  |
Date: 12/28/2003 4:13:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22080
Cosmic: I agree, he makes a good point in like every paragraph in his book, its insane  |
Date: 12/28/2003 5:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
Hi JestR-good post. I did not read MM's book (I do not care for MM the man. That is just my preference), but I agree, he is very intelligent. Now as to music contributing to a death (be it suicide, or murder). I remember when the parents of a teenage boy who commited suicide while listening to SUICIDE SOLUTION by Ozzy Ozbourne. At the time I thought it was the music. That some demon who had attached themself to the song had influenced the young man to kill himself. I also remember when the song I AM THE WARRIOR, was played over & over while a looney tune killed people in a McDonalds in California. Bottom line? I think if an artist targets a certain age group, and verbally blasts them with violent ideas & words, than yeah, there is a certain responsibility on the part of the artist. HOWEVER, the responsibility ultimately lies with the parent.  |
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Date: 12/28/2003 5:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
Now, I decided I didn't like MM after I listened his music myself. Since I am an old Metal-head, when my daughter brought home MM's first two CD's. I am the type of Mom who listens to the music her kids bring home. Just like I watch the movies they bring home. Aside from a few songs, he just wasn't my cup of tea. And, yeah, that one song "--------Frankie", really put me off of him for good. |
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Date: 12/28/2003 5:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
BTW-very good analogy to compare Romeo & Juliet. If I remember correctly, Romeo & Juliet were only, like, 12 years old, weren't they? Good post, JestR |
Date: 12/28/2003 5:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 35720
Romeo was 17 and Juliet was 13.  |
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Date: 12/28/2003 5:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 35720
I totally agree with Mr. Manson. If someone shoots up a school because they're made fun of, it's not because of the music they listen to.. it's because they had some serious mental problems. |
Date: 12/28/2003 5:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
thank you Rika. I haven't read Romeo & Juliet since Junior High.  |
Date: 12/28/2003 6:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 53900
I agree I have been saying this for years also...people should be responsible for their own actions and I believe it has become to easy for people to use outside sources such as music and movies for what they do wrong  |
Date: 12/28/2003 7:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 6860
I agree with you completely, Jstr. I have been saying this for years. Though an artist has to assume some responsibility, because whether they choose it or not, they are a role model and an influence on some people. However, is someone is so easily influenced by music, writing, the arts, or what have you, their mental state and outside environment need to be examined. People need to have a sense between reality and things that people say out of emotion. It seems that too many younger people especially don't know the difference between that. They need to know that just because someone they admire says one thing, it doesn't mean that it has to be their opinion/thought also. People need to have their own personality, and know that they are an individual, and THIS is definitly not the responsibility of an artist, or any other influence than the parents and themselves. Also, people are so quick to push the blame onto someone else. This is a very serious issue in this country. Ex.) My kid harassed another student but it's NOT his fault that the kid he was harassing beat him up. Again, it is not the responsibility of the artist to show that people need to take the blame for their actions. It all stems from the parents/upbringing. Very good post.  |
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Date: 12/28/2003 7:21:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22080
but manson is a whole heap nicer than some of the bands i listen to and yet they dont get any slack, same with rap artist who literally present themselves as "thugs" and put the idea of sexism on a pedistool. for the most part mansons lyrics arent as bad as people make them out to be, his lyrics if read properly are basically a mirror of himself and society, of course its a mirror that shows the dark side of it all but apparently people dont like it. if you ever get the chance to get his book you should, its very good reading and even my girlfriends dad who is a minister said it was a very enlightening book. |
Date: 12/28/2003 8:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 62100
I feel almost the same way..everything interpreted as wrong in society has been blamed on music almost since the advent of rock-n-roll..it has been blamed for teen sex, drug use, suicide..in reality, people take what they want from everything in life..if someone is feeling down enough about themselves and their life in general..sure, the words to a song could possibly lead them to that final step..but only because they relate to something within it..this could just as easily be done by hearing a speech, or words someone spoke to them earlier that day or week. It's all about someone's state of mind..THAT is the real problem..and Manson is right, if noone is there to listen or doesn't see the signs..that is the real catalyst.  |
Date: 12/28/2003 10:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 17204
I completely agree with you. Manson makes a great point with Romeo and Juliet, I'll have to check out the book. I have gained much more respect for him after I watched Bowling for Columbine. I thought he handled the interview beautifully. But yeah, blaming the music is an excuse.  |
Date: 12/29/2003 10:28:00 AM
From Authorid: 62060
A couple of years ago there was a case where a few teenagers went on a killing spree, and then got off because they said they were 'influenced' by a horror movie... I felt like screaming. We're all responsible for our own actions.  |
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Date: 12/29/2003 3:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 49436
Woah, good post, it's interesting to think about it |
Date: 12/29/2003 5:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 28989
When I was going through a lot of emotional stuff, and I was pretty angry at the world, I listened to a lot of heavy metal and punk, because it reflected how I was feeling, and it actually seemed to calm me down. Because I knew I wasn't alone, and it expressed what I was feeling in a way that I couldn't. It didn't fuel my anger, but had the opposite effect. But the music wasn't violence-oriented, encouraging me to kill someone or destroy something. Instead it basically said, "I'm mad, and this is why I'm mad." Kind of cathartic. The only thing I object to is when the lyrics say, "I'm mad, so I'm gonna hurt someone." That's teaching the wrong solution for expressing the anger. Of course, it's always up to us to choose to be violent or not.  |
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Date: 12/29/2003 5:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 28989
I also like Manson's answer to Moore's question in "Bowling for Columbine." Moore asked Manson, "What would you have said to those kids who murdered the highschool students at Columbine, and Manson said, "I wouldn't have said anything to them; I would have listened to them." |
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Date: 12/29/2003 7:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
People want to let lack of parenting cause so many problems, and then blame it on other things, instead of taking responsibilities for their own actions. |
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Date: 12/29/2003 7:20:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22080
canoe you have a point, music has helped me through everything almost in life, i play guitar now and that alone helps a whole lot, the thing about music that these "misfits" cling to is that they come home from school where they are picked on and 9 times out of 10 either their parents treat em like crap or they arent there when they get home so they cling to music. not to get off topic but the thing that irks me the most is when kids that listen to pop-punk,hip-hop or some other upbeat music and say the songs are like screaming about suicide when in reality alot of the music i listen to is either political, about taking action or defending yourself and proving those who mistreat you wrong by making them realise how retarded and immature they really are. |
Date: 12/30/2003 9:42:00 AM
From Authorid: 27046
People need to remember that children are impressionable. Millions of kids didn't bust out with a leather coat and sparkly white glove to do the moonwalk for nothing you know. Millions of teenage girls (you know the ones that we would THINK would know better) didn't sport teased out hair, a hundred jelly bracelets, big floppy bows and torn up fish net clothing for nothing either. When someone can tell me WHY all these young, immature, impressionable kids thought it was the greatest thing in the world to immitate and allow a music artist to influence THAT much of the people they were at that time, then I will conceed and say that none of what our kids hear or see in the media has any effect on them whatsoever. Past history PROVES that public figures, their actions, and their music effects the youth of our society GREATLY.  |
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Date: 12/30/2003 11:41:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 22080
and thats where people come in and blame artist for thier bad parenting |
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Date: 12/30/2003 4:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Jestr and as you say that do you realize that you can make the same claim about every generation of young children and teens going back through the years? EVERY generations had parents then. In the 60's the whole concept of music was about peace and what did the teenagers do? They dressed like hippies and sat around smoking dope. In the 70's through the disco era everything was sparkly and you had the platform shoes. In the 80's it was the Madonna's and Michael Jacksons and it goes on and on. What exactly is plastered ALL over the television, radio, billboards, and magazines these days? Violence and sex. What do the children of today emulate? Violence and sex. You can shelter your kids all you want but it's everywhere which leaves a parent with the cards pretty much stacked against them. |
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Date: 12/30/2003 4:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
That should have said every generation had parents then. |
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Date: 12/30/2003 4:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
For the record, I am not stating that the parents have no bearing or that their skills are not lacking in anyway. What I am saying is to state that music or television has no bearing on the emotional state of an impressionable child is very uneducated. |
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Date: 12/30/2003 6:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 60395
i EXTREMLY dislike manson, there is no ONE REASON for suicide or murder, some things can't be controlled, and actually i kinda lost respect for him when he started kissing ozzie at his renewing wedding with sharon. Lose alot of respect for people when they do stuff like that. |
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Date: 12/30/2003 6:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 60395
and sometimes suicide cannot be controlled if some has for instance, untreated or undiagnosed depression. |
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Date: 12/30/2003 7:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
OK, Azairyia..how do you explain all of the gun fights, in the old West, when there WAS no tv, or radio? It was happening WELL before tv and radio. Somehow they just decided to blame them for their parenting mistakes. |
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Date: 12/30/2003 9:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Crash you are trying to compare a time in history in a territory that was unsettled, unexpanded, and poor to say the least. The outlaws of the old west started their mayhem mostly for the sake of survival. Totally HUGE difference from the kind of violence we see today. |
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Date: 12/30/2003 10:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
Uh no...there were still a lot of trouble makers abck then, as there are today. They just couldn't blame it on tv, or radio. And history must be looked at,so as to not make the same mistakes again. Transferring blame to an inanimate object, just shows that people don't want to take responsibilities for their own lack of parenting. Kinda sad, really. |
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Date: 12/30/2003 10:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Once again I never said that parenting WASN'T a factor. What I did say was the media plays it's part and to say that it doesn't is stupidity, without question. |
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Date: 12/30/2003 10:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
No, people who listen to a song, and decide to blow their brains out, or to kill people because of it, are stupid. Music and tv, just happens to be a convenient scapegoat. |
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Date: 12/30/2003 10:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Oh I know the travesity of the whole thing. |
Date: 12/30/2003 10:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 12133
I'm sorry, I've listened to most of the songs that "make" people do all of these things. Maybe I just have good parents, or something. I don't know
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Date: 1/2/2004 4:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 62100
Yeah, but AZ, I don't think it's the music that starts the fashion trends..it's the media and how they portray it..if there was no MTV, would we all have emulated Madonna or Michael Jackson's images?? If there was no television to show us over and over again what they were wearing?? Just ;istening to the music doesn't impact the people..it's what the music is associated with..the media says "Marilyn Manson is bad..if you listen to him..you are bad" therefore, these kids think they are bad..so who is to blame? The artist or the media?? I say the media.. |
Date: 1/9/2004 5:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 4144
i don't think music has anything to do with killing people. that seems stupid to me.  |
Date: 1/14/2004 7:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 177
We are all 100% responsible for our actions, regardless of what we read or the music we listen to.  |
