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Date: 12/6/2003 5:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
??????I think the Nazi's would be very proud of selective reproduction. I also think people like Dave Thomas,(as in Wendy's restraunt), was an orphan, and a foster child, who got his GED in the army. He died a very wealthy man, who was generous & loving in the community, and gave back Millions of $$$$ to help "poor kids" have a future. I think there are more success stories, than failures in our world.  |
| Date: 12/6/2003 5:16:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 I agree. I am one of those "success stories". I am in no way rich monitarily, but I am far from the poverty I grew up in. So what if I didn't have material growing up... so what if my parents "deliberately" brought me up in poverty -- I grew out of it... and now I help others who are homeless/improverished/etc. |
Date: 12/6/2003 5:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 23948
I think if you are going to have children, the main things you need are love and affection, kindness, patience, and wisdom. For the money that you don't have, you make up for with love  |
Date: 12/6/2003 5:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 58334
Was does that have to do with having kids? Sure its gonna be hard not to have anything but its th elove that counts  |
| Date: 12/6/2003 6:04:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 I agree Little Brat and Nimiwae: but what often happens in poverty too, due to the parent's frustration by their lack of being able to perform financially, a lot of parents in that circumstance [not all] take their frustrations out on their kids [like my parents did]. There was a lot of violence in my house due to my father's frustrations. He isn't violent now - his aggressions towards us were based on not being able to live up to what the world expected of him and his own feelings of inadequacy. Poverty has its pitfalls and in some families the feelings of love and caring etc. are as much a "pipe dream" as world peace because of the outside pressures. |
Date: 12/6/2003 6:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 1225
Suggesting that the poor shouldn't be "allowed" to breed smacks of eugenics and elitism. I'm with you, author, on this.  |
| Date: 12/6/2003 6:09:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 I agree Neptune. Even though my childhood was a real sob story due to the poverty and the precipitous fall out therefrom - I overcame it and no "elitist" should tell anyone else that their parents shouldn't have "deliberately" brought them into the world based on their financials. |
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Date: 12/6/2003 6:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 51649
As long as the partners to reproduce don't have weak genes than they should reproduce. But whatever, the human race has messed up the laws of natural selection with our benevolence and our technology. |
Date: 12/6/2003 6:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 60052
I took that statement a little differently than you did, I think. I took it to mean that poverty is just a matter of circumstance, not who you are. No matter how much money your parents make or don't make doesn't mean that they shouldn't breed, but I think they should really put a lot of thought into how much harder they will have to work to make ends meet with children and low income. Granted, money doesn't bring happiness. I was brought up in a low-income family also. I never had toys as a child, and many times my mother and I stole food from the grocery store in order to eat. That doesn't mean that she shouldn't have had me. When I was born, my parents were in quite a good middle-class situation. After my father left my mother and I, we had nowhere to go, no money or anything. She did what she could at the time. I didn't always have a roof over my head, or food in my stomach, but those circumstances turned me into the person that I am today, a person that appreciates all te things that I have and the hard work that it took to get them.  |
Date: 12/6/2003 6:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 37872
No, poor people are okay; but they shouldn't let stupid people breed.  |
Date: 12/6/2003 7:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 50435
Why not? If you're not responsible enough to take care of yourself, you certainly aren't qualified to raise a child. However, you could be wealthy and still not pass Gallytuck's Parental Qualification Evaluation. It's rather rigid. There is a difference between a professional going through an occupational slump and a generational welfare lifer. Instead of getting fat at home and raising increasingly obese children (it's genetic, yeah, right...) they should be penalized in some fashion. It's bad enough that they suck the system dry all the while not paying into it, but we don't need them to teach their spawns the ins and outs of scamming the welfare system.  |
| Date: 12/6/2003 7:22:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 To Die For: she said: "and that your parents didn't deliberately bring you into the world that way [impoverished]." By saying "deliberately bing you into the world that way" suggests they should have. They DID indeed bring me into the world deliberately (I was no accident). She defined the difference between "circumstance" and "deliberance". I'm glad we're both here no matter our harsh beginnings. |
| Date: 12/6/2003 7:24:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Ra Xoas: re: "but they shouldn't let stupid people breed." Where do people go for a smartness test before they breed??? Your statement shows your own ignorance. |
| Date: 12/6/2003 7:28:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Gallytuck: my parents weren't "professionals going through an occupational slump", they were two people with limited education and income potential... raising 3 kids. We were never on welfare either as my dad would rather have us starve than go on welfare... hence our sorry existence. I think your opinion is unintelligible. |
| Date: 12/6/2003 7:30:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 To Die For: correction: that should have been "should NOT have brought us into the world" sorry for the typo |
Date: 12/6/2003 8:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 4144
i don't think that anybody has the right to tell someone else that they shouldn't breed. I do think that people should be able to feed the kid or not have one. Example: my neice had a baby last year. she married the baby's daddy about 10 months later. she still lived at home when she got pregnant, had the baby at 17 and got married at 18. She has never had a job except for a part time job at mcdonalds or burger king that lasted 3 weeks. the baby's daddy had dropped out of school, couldn't even drive a car and had no job. After she got pregnant he got a job and they got a one bedroom apartment. the apartment wasn't big enough to suit her so they got a two bedroom that was more expensive. The boy does not make enough money to cover all the bills so the baby's grandmother is constantly buying diapers, clothes, paying co-payments at the doctor and buying medicine, not to mention a thousand other little things. then there's me and i buy whatever i think the baby might need. the baby's grandfather pays approx. 100.00 a month on the rent because they can't afford the bigger apartment. about two weeks ago my niece bought a pregnancy test and she was hoping that she was pregnant. i couldn't believe it. they can barely take care of the kid they got and she's wanting another one. i told her i hoped she wasn't pregnant again cause her parents couldn't afford another baby. they still have a 15 year old still in high school and i think we all know how much it costs to go to high school especially if you are involved in any sports or clubs. the older niece gets mad when the younger one gets anything from thier parents or anybody else. and she don't think her sister should have a newer car than the one her parents bought her. and she still expects her dad to take care of anything that goes wrong with the car wheather it's new brakes, tires, oil changes, whatever. now, i know a lot of people have it rough after having a baby. my husband and i did without a lot of luxury items when we had ours. but, once i actually saw how much this kid was costing us and i did not want to work until she started school, we decided not to have any more. things are better now and we could afford one or two but after 19 years it aint gonna happen! i'll wait for grandchildren! so no, i don't think anyone has the right to tell someone else not to breed. i just think you shouldn't have more than you can take care of and in her case, she don't take care of the one she's got.  |
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Date: 12/6/2003 8:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 4144
OMG! i didn't realize my reply was sooooo long! sorry. i hope i didn't offend. you just hit on a touchy subject for me! |
| Date: 12/6/2003 8:32:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 It's okay Mama Bug.... you have an experience to share and I love to hear all perspectives (no matter how long). I think things were different (back in the 60's) when my parents were having kids. Not to mention the factor of youthful opptomism... they think things will get better, even if they don't. Either way, I turned out okay...and have done much better for myself than my parents did for themselves. |
Date: 12/6/2003 9:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 30229
If the VAST majority of people waited until they could afford it to have a baby, then there would be NO problems with over-population. lol. I had 3 kids, worked and raised them by myself. Could I afford it? Hmmmmm, well not exactly, but we made it and made ends meet as well... and never used food stamps or welfare of any kind. But to say someone shouldnt have kids at all because they have no money is playing God in people's lives... no one has that right.  |
Date: 12/6/2003 10:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
Well, I don't agree with that comment taken as is but I will say that people have a responsibility to use contraceptive methods if they don't have the desire or are totally incapable of providing for more children. I'm not saying they shouldn't ever have a child, I'm speaking more about those people that can't afford the ones they currently have, don't take care of them but are too ignorant and or lazy to prevent further pregnancies. I can say that I have never been wealthy, according to societie's standards and didn't grow up having many materialistic things. I feel I'm "richer" in the end, since I know the true value of what's most important in life and that those things can't be bought with money.  |
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Date: 12/6/2003 10:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
ooops...should be ^^^^"society's^^^^^ |
| Date: 12/6/2003 10:30:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Agreed LadyLuck ;-) |
| Date: 12/6/2003 10:32:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 You Choose: my parents had "dreams" of having 2-3 children. They didn't think about how much money it takes to raise them. And as it turned out, I turned out okay in spite of them and my improverished upbringing. |
Date: 12/6/2003 10:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 10722
Aha, you were mistaken yet again Gail for being LadyLuck..LOL!  |
| Date: 12/6/2003 10:36:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Not to mention that getting free birth control was a lot harded back then when they were young. If you're already improverished, how are you going to afford birth control, pills or condoms, (if your community isn't developed enuf to provide it to you at no cost to you?) |
Date: 12/6/2003 10:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Most of us wouldn't be here and SOME of might not have worked so hard at two and three jobs, cramming an education in between without having a family. And not all single moms are on welfare. But those who are, sure there are scammers and then there are kids who actually get a meal every so often. But that's so wrong....right?  |
Date: 12/6/2003 10:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 11251
#51649...can I ask what you mean by "weak genes"?  |
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Date: 12/6/2003 10:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
I can't wait to hear an answer to that Raven. Just what are "weak genes"? |
| Date: 12/6/2003 10:52:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Shadow Ghost: I don't think there is anything wrong with people breeding... whatever their circumstance... we do what we do... then we deal with the fall out... |
| Date: 12/6/2003 10:56:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 I agree that the statement by this person: "As long as the partners to reproduce don't have weak genes than they should reproduce" is completely ignorant. Where do we get "tested" to find out if we have "weak genes" before we breed. That statement is ignorant and facsist. |
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Date: 12/6/2003 10:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 11251
I could not agree more |
Date: 12/6/2003 11:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 59876
let's see, that would be me that made that comment. would you like clarification? if someone can not take care of their kids physically, emotionally, or mentally, no, i don't think they should have kids. i believe you knew the context i meant this in but took it and ran with it. shows me what kind of person you are. if you can't afford to feed yourself, let alone children, then what would be the point in having children? your own personal wants and needs? because you love them you are willing to watch them suffer on purpose from your own bad decision? if you can not provide a stable home, do not have the mental capacity or emotional capability to take care of a child, what would be the point in having one? if you have anger control problems and have a tendancy to strike out physically and physically take out your anger on those close to you, then is it okay then to have a child and beat that child, because you love them, you just can't control yourself? if you cannoty take care of or provide for your child FROM THE GET GO, what would be the point in having a child? i am tired of adults that put themselves before their children. give me a break already scall. what an opprotunist you are. have fun.  |
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Date: 12/6/2003 11:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 59876
deal with the fall out, ie; have a child you can't provide for, on purpose, then turn it over to a friend, family, or cps to take care of. or, watch them suffer because you deliberately made the decision to have child (ren) you couldn't take care of. |
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Date: 12/6/2003 11:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 59876
and i don't think it is anyone's place to instruct someone on whether to reproduce or not, but i would hope that they wouldn't be stupid enough to deliberately have kids they couldn't take care of. nor do i think anyone should instuct someone else's child in their religious beliefs or holiday celebrations. like it or lump it. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 12:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 12341
I do not believe the majority of children are born to parents who intend to starve or neglect them. Some do, the majority don't. I do think lots of folks take on the mentality of "you made you bed, now lay in it", which is despisable in my opionion. It seems like even families sometime take on this attitude, instead of lending a helping hand it has become easier to "stick a foot on someone's back and hold them down" all the while of course, in the best interest of our welfare system, which some believe that their tax dollars would disappear immediately if there were no more needy children. Poverty sucks and so do people who begrudge a kid a meal. How absurd to believe the welfare system would end if no more needy children are born when we have a president pledging 87 billion dollars to rebuild a country we blow up. How utterly absurd! |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:22:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Doheny: I'm an "opportunist" for being an improverished child???? I don't think so. I can't believe you would call me "opportunist" for discussing the circumstances of my childhood. I'm sorry you can't handle the reality of what I went through, but to call me names on top of it... well... I think you need to rethink your perspective. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:25:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Doheney: re: "if someone can not take care of their kids physically, emotionally, or mentally, no, i don't think they should have kids." my parents weren't able to perform to the standards of society, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have procreated or I shouldn't have been born. You obviously have ideas about human beings that are outside of reality. Get real. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:31:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Doheny: my parents failed at being model parents who could "take care" of their kids to the level that "normal" families consider adequate, but we SURVIVED. I am here regardless. For you to verbalize that my parents shouldn't have bred, and to further say that I am an "opportunist" to speak about shows your own "elitism" and "ignorance." I can't believe you would attack someone that had it so bad. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 12:34:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
wah wah wah i was a poor kid. everything is not about you being a poor kid for god's sake. got ego much? you are an opprotunist for trying to make me look bad for disagreeing with you. the whole world doesn't see things your way. got ego much? do you always make things up as you go along? i never said a word about the standards of society, what i said was you shoule be able to take care of your kids. can you feed them? can you clothe them? can get them help in an emergency? can you give them the correct dosage of medication? and if you can't do any of that can you and are you willing to learn? because it is necessary knowlege to take care of your kid. i think it is pretty obvios who is living in fantasyland here. did i mention the quality of the clothes, the origin of the clothes blah blah blah etc. i am not going to argue with blatant stupidity. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 12:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
i never said your parents shouldn't have bred and you never should have been born scall, what i said was i would hope people don't deliberately bring kids into the world that they cannot or will not take care of ie which i have made perfectly clear to you over and over. it isn't my fault you are incapable of understanding. go play with someone else, you annoy me. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 12:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
your full of it scall. i got hash brown sanwiches and cold showers. povert, been there. yep, it sucked. yep, i'm a bit phobic about having too litlle goods in the house now. it has it's effect, some last, some don't. that in no way tells me why i should have a lackidasical attitude about people having kids they can't or won't take care of. you were poor all right but it sounds to me like your parents tried therein lies the difference. there is plenty that can be done with a positive attitude and a willingness to ask for help. sitting back and whining accomplishes nothing. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 12:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
and i still don't see any reason on god's green earth why people in general in regards to their own lifes should be that way abouty bringing kids into the world either. we're not talking christmas gifts and candy bars for breakfast here, we are talking not having food to put in your own mouth but being careless or disregardful and having a kid anyway. oh well, we'll make it somehow? so they can grow up to be bitter about their poorness and their parent's poor attitude? |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:47:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 "there is plenty that can be done with a positive attitude and a willingness to ask for help. sitting back and whining accomplishes nothing" You are implying that you know how I grew up. You KNOW NOTHING about how I grew up besides what I mentioned here. My father wasn't willing to ask for help... that happens, as even poor people can be too proud to ask for help. For you to slam me for my experience is not only malicious but it is ignorant. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 12:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
and you didn't mention what you went through, you shamelessly exploited what you went through to strengthen your position. and so what? it was valid either way. you used it to emphisize a point you thought was valid as did i. if you are thinking you are going to make me feel bad or make me worry about what other people think of what i said, you'd be thinking wrong. the people i care about here know exactly how i feel about these things and they know i'm not afraid to say it. go pooh pooh someone else. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 12:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
it wasn't in reference to you scall it was in general. one more time, it isn't all about you. want to try to tell me one more time how you aren't bitter? your bitterness is showing in spades. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:51:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 I'm glad you think you can speak for all poor people all over the world Doheny... maybe we should elect you "world proctreator general"? |
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Date: 12/7/2003 12:54:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
maybe you should tell it to someone that is willing to listen to you continue to whine. you take things so personally scall. you really ought not get so riled up about things out of control. i'm not going to change my opinion just because you think i should lol. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:55:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Do you think that 3 children who live in a 1 room shack with their parents and eat only creamed corn for dinner are "exploiting" what they went through? I did say what I went through... you chose to look past it. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 12:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
you aren't a child any longer scall. you are an adult supposedly carrying on an intelligent conversation. my mom was one of six kids in a two room chalkboard shack. so what? their parents took care of them. who said creamed corn isn't dinner. sounds like you already have your own bitter preconcieved ideas of what is acceptable. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:01:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
i have to go refill my coffe. if you want to keep this going, by all means *bows* after you m'dear. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 1:04:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 A portion of creamed corn is not an adequate balanced meal for a growing child. No one would agree with that. If you read my post, I'm okay with how I grew up... This post was not about "boo-hooing". Sure my childhood wasn't peaches, but we survived... and my point was no one should say that my parents shouldn't have "deliberately" reproduced because they didn't have the means to care for us properly, i.e., proper meals, with protein included, etc.. YOU are the one aplifying this out of control. Good night. |
Date: 12/7/2003 1:04:00 AM
From Authorid: 12581
Personally, I cannot relate (finacially) with this post due to the fact that my Grandmama raised me (for the most part) & lemme tell ya, you get spoiled when your grandma is your mama. But, I do have an opinion on when someone should have kids. Although, I was not finacially poor as a child (but, as a teenager I was homeless so I know what it is to go without) I had a horrible emotional & physical upbringing concerning my biological parents, in the end, my grandparents were my only saving grace. I was a result of puppy love, between two kids, that truly weren't ready to have children. Yes, I am thankful that I was born, but I strongly feel that people that aren't ready finacially or emotionally, really shouldn't bring a child into the world. If you cannot feed yourself, why bring a child into the world to starve along with you? My parents made a mistake, which could have been prevented if they had been responsible, which I paid for. I was determined not to do this to my children, I was never careless, so I've never experienced an unwanted pregnancy. I personally wanted to wait until I was more mature, had more of an emotional grasp of who I am, wanted to wait until I was finacially stable enough that I didn't have to let other people & welfare take care of my child (my responsiblity), so I could give them toys & not let them go without. I wanted to do this, because I want my offspring to have the best I can offer, because I know what can really go wrong when some things are lacking & I adore children & my biological instinct is in high gear but I've worked hard towards this goal. To me, new life is a gift, not a toy. Next year, I hope to start trying to have a baby, I hope I will be able to have two children in all. I am not rich, but they will have food in their tummy's & toys & they will not have to experience the crippling horrors I experienced because my parents were irrisponsible, emotionally immature people with nothing to offer me but heartache. Instead, someone else had to raise me for them & try to reverse the damage. I guess to make a bunch of babble short (To Late, I know...LOL sorry) If you cannot take care of yourself, then you should be a kind (& responsible) enough person to not bring another being into the world to suffer along side with you. If you bring a child into the world, just because you want kids although you might not have the means, then that person is being selfish, not considerate & responsible. If someone is poor & wants children, then go to school, get a better job, work HARD towards the goal, this is what I've done, because parenting isn't going to be as easy as getting pregnant, it's a hard job that carries alot of responsiblity. I didn't mean to go on so long...this is merely how I feel & not meant to offend anyone, having children is a very passionate subject to me. Thanks for listening & sharing & Take Care!  |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:06:00 AM
From Authorid: 12341
I'm sorry, but I agree with Doheney. I grew up pretty much in similar circumstances. I don't tell my entire life story, but can we say it was poor? I know what an outhouse is, I know what it means to live without running water in the house. Going outside in the dead of winter just to go pottie. Eating things that today I wouldn't! Can we say, get over it? I had a rotten childhood, poorer than dirt, but I'm glad I was born. Sink or swim. That's life. I can exchange poor stories with anyone here, in the end, does it matter? We are alive and living. The choice of living a good or bad life is our own, not our parents. Woe is me doesn't cut it. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 1:15:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Shadow Ghost: Go read the post again. I'm not crying about my upbringing, I'm saying that as poor and bad as it was, my parents had a right to breed, and I have a right to be here. Doheny suggested that because my parents "couldn't take care of me properly" they shouldn't have had children. This whole thing has been blown waaaay out of proportion. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 1:16:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 She claimed to have grown up poor in this post but in another post she said: "you'd be amazed how many of those poor families had more than my family, and we were far from poor." |
| Date: 12/7/2003 1:18:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 THIS IS ABOLUTELY NOT A "WOE IS ME" POST... IT IS A POST ABOUT REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
food is food scall. after you're here, you do what you can to make it, good for you, and good for your family. i feel you completely and deliberately twisted what i said and i think i've made that obvious. (didn't appreciate my ao eh? lol) i feel like you are so embittered and blinded by what happened to you, that you are incapable of seeing beyond that. children are helpless until they are old enough and smart enough, or clever enough to fend for themselves. let me state this as clearly as possible for you as i can, IT IS WRONG FOR A PERSON TO BRING A CHILD INTO THE WORLD, ON PURPOSE, IF THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF TAKING CARE OF, OR TRYING TO TAKE CARE OF THAT CHILD, OR, THEY SHOULD GIVE THAT CHILD UP TO SOMEONE THAT IS WILLLING AND CAPABLE OF TAKING CARE OF IT. it makes me sick to think of my daughters having nothing to eat while their mother splurged whatever money she could get on booze, it makes me sick to think of them being raped in foster care, it makes me sick to think of them eating coffee creamer , trying to make it into soup, because there was no food. people that do stuff like that to little kids on purpose MAKE ME SICK. you keep bringing up your own personal situatuion and turning everything i say into a personal comment to you, so what is it you are trying to tell me? |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 12341
Then I apoligize Scall, because somewhere I lost track of who was saying what. I hate the abuse and neglect of some parents. Others, who do the best they can and still fall short, they are not guilty of anything other than doing what they hoped would work out. I did eat lots of things I won't eat today, lived like I hope I never have to live again. I'm still glad to be here, I can't say a lot for my Dad, back in the 50's, he wasn't Ozzie and my Mom wasn't Harriet. But I survived and changed my life. Moved on and I still have a heart for those who need it most. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
it is okay in your mind morally to have kids you can't take care of, and have no intention of taking care of. and, "breeding happens" is that due to unfinished education, no knowledge of birth control, religious beliefs, what? because i am dying of curiousity. breeding doesn't "just happen" three times, four times, whatever lol. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
first of all scall, i said i did my stint at poor as an older child, able to understand the circumstances and luckily help out. then i said my orgasnization gathered donations and you'd be suprized at how many of those people had more than we did. organization- where i worked- as an adult- in a childcare program. lol. you are a bad one arent't you? i'm going to go get that link now for that post to keep you honest call. by no means did i claim to grow up poor. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:30:00 AM
From Authorid: 12341
IF it is entirely about reproductive rights, then WHO do you want to make that decision for you? Where does it stop? Reproductive rights, religious rights. No rights at all. Just let someone else make the best descisions for us based on their opinion? I hope not. That sucks. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:35:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
shadowghost, no one ever said someone else should choose for people. scall got her undies in a twist because someone told her there was no santa claus when she was a child and the conversation escalated from there. i hbelieve you already replied, but here it is. http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm365054.html. as i've said, i have clarified over and over for scall what my meaning was and not only does she continue to twist what i've said, she has now flat out lied about what i've said. i'd suggest reading where we left off on the previous post. scall decided to take my views personally as she is apparently (at least to me) still bitter over her circumstances. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 12341
YOU asked and I told you what I believe. Being poor should not be decided by anyone based on income level. And I think that's exactly what you stated up there^^^. So why cry and moan about what we had to eat as kids to survive? We survived and went on with life. And NO one stopped our lives based on income levels. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
i did say this " i'm really sorry you were an impoverished child scall. i would hope that it was a matter of circumstances and that your parents didn't deliberately bring you into the world that way" and then claified my meaning adequately, clearly, and over and over again.. if anyone wants to disagree with that, go for it. i will stand by it and say it one more time for the sake of clarity. i think it is wrong for people to deliberately have kids they cannot or will not take care of. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 12341
I agree with that Doheney, that was what I tried to convey. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:44:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO BREED SCALL, that doesn't mean everyone should. some people are stupid. i have a perfect example. my girl's mother has had eight kids and four abortions. she didn't raise ANY Of those kids. she tried to kill one of those kids. she tried to make one of the other kids kill that same kid. she is pregnant right now and drinking like a fish. in my honest opinion, no, she shouldn't breed. she's an idiot who is incapable of taking care of anyone. that is my opinion scall and i stand by it. it doesn't change a thing. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 1:45:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 RE: "then WHO do you want to make that decision for you?" I'm not asking anyone to make a decision for me. I'm saying it's up to each individual to decide for themselves to decide to breed or not regardless of financial circumstances... sure we all hope people who don't have the means to care for their children would have the sense not to breed, but the fact is they do... and it's their choice. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
DO YOU GET THAT SCALL? IT DOESN'T CHANGE A THING! NO ONE SAID "BY GOD! WE BETTER GIVE THAT WOMAN A HYSTERECTOMY AGAINST HER WILL!" NO ONE SAID "SHE NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN BORN" AND NO ONE SAID THOSE THINGS ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY. THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN SCALL AND SCALL'S FAMILY. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
DUH! IT TOOK YOU LONG ENOUGH! |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:48:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
i think i used the term common sense like four hours ago |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 12341
Good post and debate Scall. Lots of opinions and I honestly hope nothing personal, I'm too tired to continue, but this was a great post and I'm glad I had a chance to state my own opinions and read others as well. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
fine. i'm sorry i was rude. god but that was taxing. can we be done now? |
Date: 12/7/2003 1:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
good night shadowghost, sweet dreams  |
| Date: 12/7/2003 2:00:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Doheny: you are the most insulting person I ever met. First you say "I hope they didn't deliberately bring you into the world that way" then you attack me for them doing that. Whatever. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 2:01:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 And this post IS about ME... sorry it's the only example I knew first hand. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 2:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
hard core ain'tcha lol. whatever scall. anyone that reads this can see exactly what you did and exactly what we each said. what i am scall is honest. like it or lump it. if i wanted to insult you, i would have. they don't call me grumpy for nothing. i quite enjoyed this. it made my day. i had a good time. you ought not stew so about it, it isn't as if you had to make the post and it isn't as if you didn't sit here all night just waiting for me to respond to it knowing i would because you based it on what i said. was it fun for you too? |
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Date: 12/7/2003 2:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
lmao! |
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Date: 12/7/2003 2:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
good night scall, sweet dreams |
Date: 12/7/2003 6:28:00 AM
From Authorid: 42792
Firstly, kudos to your parents for not being on welfare. Secondly, I don't think that impoverished people should PLAN on having a family that they fully know they are unable to support however, if they do, then that is their business. Being that it is their business and no one else's, the general public should not have to carry the burden of supporting their family. The government has no place in the bedrooms of America. If people want to breed; that is their choice. I'm not cruel and I would never wish for any child to starve but it makes me extremely angry when some people decide to breed; knowing their only income will be from publc assistance. It breaks my heart when people have children and they are financially unable to give their children the things I am able to give mine but if they are hard working and are honestly attempting to provide for them; it does make things a heck of a lot different than people who suck the system dry. My father passed away when I was very young; leaving my mother, who was previously a homemaker, to take care of me. My mother went out and got a job and we barely survived but we did survive. I had my two oldest children at a very young age and was by no means ready to care for them but I got two jobs, finished high school, went to college (3 times), and now have a decent paying job. I didn't want my kids to grow up the way that I did. Should I have had children at such a young age? Absolutely not but I did and I faced the consequences and lived up to the responsibility. Even if I didn't, the government has no right to tell me whether or not I am able to bare children.  |
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Date: 12/7/2003 6:31:00 AM
From Authorid: 42792
One more thing, if other people think that impoverished people shouldn't breed, no matter what the reason for their thinking is, they are entitled to think that way because it is their right. Just like having as many children as one wants to have, regardless of income, is their right. |
Date: 12/7/2003 6:56:00 AM
From Authorid: 22080
9 times out of 10 people on welfare have a massive amount of kids but not enough money to feed them. i dont think they shouldnt breed but they should be educated in some way to help make money and feed their kids  |
Date: 12/7/2003 7:56:00 AM
From Authorid: 47218
what a crock of....you know. My boyfriend's parents came from Mexico to a small agricultural community in the south (dad illegally at first). Neither had more than a grade school education. The mom didn't work, and dad didn't make very hard wages, so things were sometimes a great struggle, but his dad was very hard working and thrifty and he ran businesses on the side so, even the though the kids didn't get nice, brand new things, they always had enough to eat and plenty of love and attention, and their father disciplined them well and really pushed them to do well in school, so they are all now successful, college-educated, hard-working adults. So, the moral of the story is, good parenting and income level don't go hand in hand. Witness the wealthy parents who neglect and spoil their children, then the kids grow into lazy, good-for-nothings.  |
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Date: 12/7/2003 8:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 47218
Upon consideration, I think the statement should be revised: neglectful, irresponsible people shouldn't breed. Unfortunately, it's exactly because of their irresponsibility that these people don't realize they'll make bad parents. |
Date: 12/7/2003 9:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 15228
I agree. Income should have nothing to do with having babies. It is an individual decision. My mother was divorced and struggled financially, yet she did it in a way that we kids didn't even know we were doing without. I might add she refused to go on welfare even though we qualified, she had 3 kids and worked just a little above minamum wage for the police department (she was lucky and got regular child support from dad...about $90.00 every two weeks). We are a Free society, that means making individal choices whether others agree or not.  |
| Date: 12/7/2003 11:06:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Kelly: For once I agree with you ;-) re: "We are a Free society, that means making individal choices whether others agree or not." |
| Date: 12/7/2003 11:09:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 NKA: I agree - they shouldn't PLAN on having kids if they can't afford them. Due to the condition I grew up in I chose to stop having kids after 1. I personally, would not bring a child into this world that I couldn't take care of, i.e., proper nutrition, housing etc. But my point of this debate is that there are those who do (like my parents) and like my two sibs... who only knew they wanted "x" amount of children... they had great amounts of youthful opptomism and maybe were a little light in the smarts dept. But those kids are there and my family (as an example) is in no way unique. America's "dirty little secret" is its poverty (I think). When other countries think about America, they don't think about poverty -- they think we have it all. |
Date: 12/7/2003 11:13:00 AM
From Authorid: 23101
Yes, I think they should! I once saw an E-Mail my mom got, and its the moral is "Things aren't always what they are cracked up to be." It goes something like this: This woman is pregnant with 5 children blind and 6 deaf (these numbers I can't remember but she does have a lot of children) and they asked you.. Would you kill this child? And if you said yes........ You killed Beethoven. So what I am saying is that you could be killing the person who cures cancer for good..  |
| Date: 12/7/2003 11:14:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Jester: I dont think people who can't afford to take care of their kids should breed either... but I think a lot of it has to do with intelligence. The average IQ is 90... some folks fall below that. I think IQ is a factor in determining how well a person will be able get the education in order to get the good job that pays adequately to support children. But we can't go around telling people with low IQ's that they shouldn't have kids either because their $5.00/hr. won't cut it. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 11:16:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Nice point Little Jung, but we weren't talking about killing a child - only whether people should reproduce based on income. But I see your point, if my parents had decided not to have me because they didn't have money - then I wouldn't be here and who knows... maybe I'll come up with the cure for cancer someday ;-) |
| Date: 12/7/2003 11:18:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Mollycat: re: "they always had enough to eat and plenty of love and attention,"... sounds like your BF's father was a smarter and kinder man than mine. We received very little love and the attention we got was physical and mental abuse. I think poverty also breeds those things, but obviously not in all cases. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 11:20:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Even though I think some folks just shouldn't breed - I also believe that no one has the right to take that choice away from them. It's my opinion and only that. |
Date: 12/7/2003 11:33:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
No one has the right to tell someone they are not financially fit to have a child. Where there is a will there is a way. My dad was one of nine kids, he was kicked out of the house and sent to live with an uncle at 13. Black sheep I guess as he would not conform to his family Mormon ways. Anyway, dad didnt have much schooling but he did anything and everything to take care of us. *five of us* Sure we may not have been raised with all the NEAT things in life, but we had a roof over our heads, food on the table and love. I see some posts on here about my dad wont pay for college, he bought me this and that and blah blah blah, and I think why you spoiled rotten kid. Dad gives ya EVERYTHING, but the first time he doesnt do what they want they come unglued. Sorry didnt mean to get off the subject.  |
| Date: 12/7/2003 11:40:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Doheny: Yes, I did enjoy it as much as you ;-) Nothing like a good debate to get your blood pumping and make you know you're alive.... I don't think I've ever initiated a debate that had bigger legs. Thanks for giving me the material to "run" with. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 11:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
gally contrary to popular belief everyone that is poor doesnt SCAM the welfare system. THEY MAKE ends meet, even if it means working two jobs. YEP scall that statment about weak genes is pretty sorry. LOL Right lets spend thousands that we cant afford to get our genes tested to see if they are weak. LOL""Poverty sucks and so do people who begrudge a kid a meal. How absurd to believe the welfare system would end if no more needy children are born when we have a president pledging 87 billion dollars to rebuild a country we blow up. How utterly absurd!"" I"LL say a big amen to that shadow ghost. LET feed kids across the nation, *which I'm not downing* but I think we need to make sure the kids at home are taken care of too. The thing is, even people that are WELL off can fall into the poverty level because of down sizing at work , so they may have been able to afford their 2.1 kids, but now they face the welfare lines. And there is NOTHING wrong with asking for help. I'd rather ask for help that see a kid starve because the parents are too proud to ask. I mean there are times when you CANT find work, and your money that you do have keeps getting less and less while looking for work. SO then you end up with NOT enough money to go to a differnt town and look for work. But then that presents another problem as IF you DO have enough to get to the town, that does not mean you have enough for shelter, food while waiting for the next pay check. I think people that look down on people for doing what ever it takes, to get by , accepting HELP when needed, have a major problem and I"D love to see some of those that have born with said silver spoon have to rough it for about six months. Maybe then they would learn a little compassion. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 11:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Doheney you are right as far as people that bring kids in the world with NO thought of taking care of them. But thats not what this post is about. Its about bringing a child in the world, before you have enough money to do it. I'm against the person that brings a child in this world, just to give it to someone else to take care of because they dont want to do it. IF they have NO intention of taking care of the child, yes DONT bring it into the world. But I'm sure scall as well as myself and others on here, our parents had good intentions, and did the best they could. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 11:52:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
OK sorry for so many replies but this is a good post and I had to work fourteen hours yesterday and missed it. GEEZE scall, ya need to check my work times before you post really good stuff so I dont miss it. LOL |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:12:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Firstborn: I didn't know this debate was going to have these kind of legs (or I would have waited for ya ;-) |
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Date: 12/7/2003 12:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 51649
Ok I shall clarify my statement about "weak genes". I am going to start off with the fact that none of us our perfect, and all our genes are inherently weak to some degree. However The peoples with poor genes, such as people with lets say a genetically transferred problem, should not breed. It may sound fascist, it may sound like I'm Hitler. But it is not ignorant. And I have no admiration for Hitler. He was too extreme in his ideologies. However If we let go of our humanity and realized that we are animals and in order for our species to evolve to a stronger, more capable of suriving species than it is clear that we need to be careful of who breeds. I could elaborate more, but I know I am going to attacked continually about this comment already. So I will just end in a quote from Nietzsche's book "The Antichrist" "The weak and the botched shall perish: first principle of our charity. And one should help them to it." |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:31:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Ki Lan: I understand the point you are trying to make but it is unrealistic in the world we live in. Who is to say who has weak genes and who doesn't.... some could feel that a low IQ is "weak genes".... and don't you think that process could be abused? |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:36:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Oh and DOHENY: for the record... I retract my statement that you are the most insulting person I've ever met. We both obviously feel very strongly about this subject and perhaps I did take your argument a little to personally. *peace* |
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Date: 12/7/2003 12:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 51649
Of course it could be abused. And of course I am speaking idealistically. It could be however introduced rather slowly. We can start by putting more emphasis on physical attraction, I know that that is shallow and insensitive but attractiveness is a factor that demonstrates the persons survival ability's. It shows if they are sickly, weak, etc. Survival of the Fittest. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:53:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Ki Lan: So what do you suggest we do with all the "ugly" people? I also disagree with you. Physical attractiveness is not only in the "eye of the beholder" but it is only one factor in survival as a species and a very weak one. I know plenty of ugly people that are waaay smart and have what it takes to survive. I also know a lot of beautiful people that could fight their way out of wet paper sack. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:55:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 err.. that's "couldn't fight their way out of a..." |
| Date: 12/7/2003 12:58:00 PM From Authorid: 51649 animals choose mates based on the physical attributes they posses in order to ensure that their offspring will be capable of survival. We have stepped away from this natural act and replaced it with a sickening amount of benevolence. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
LOL that is kind of you to say. But its after one here and I'm still sitting in my p.j.s and need to get up and get something done. I have the next four days off, and unless I have to run to Utah I might make a post soon. OR I'm suppose to have them off. never know. Have a good one, be back to see what is going on later. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 1:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Nietzsche's book "The Antichrist" "The weak and the botched shall perish: first principle of our charity. And one should help them to it." OH I COULD SO RUN WITH THAT STATEMENT. BUT I'M GOING TO TRY AND LEAVE IT ALONE. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 1:10:00 PM From Authorid: 51649 Run with the statement then. I am curious as to how you interpreted it. |
| Date: 12/7/2003 1:59:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Ki Lan: "animals choose mates based on the physical attributes they posses in order to ensure that their offspring will be capable of survival." Have you ever known a beautiful woman who married an ugly man based on his career and income? I have. I think she is following the animalistic order to insure her offspring's survival. Survival has to do with money and brains moreso than physical attractiveness. Also, like I said "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". You never did give us a solution of what to do with all the "ugly" people - I supposed you would like to be the only one who gets to say who is or is not beautiful based on your own perception of what beauty is??? |
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Date: 12/7/2003 3:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 47218
big mistake there 52469. Evolutionism is a scientific theory intended to describe things in nature, not to prescribe. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 3:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 47218
by the way, scall, I do believe that the average IQ is and should be 100. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 4:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 4144
HEY! It's me again. You really started something here! I have another view on this subject. My husband's neice is about 25-26 years old. Six years ago she had a baby. When the baby was about four months old she took the baby to my mother-in-law (the baby's great grandmother) and six years later the kid is still there. The "mother" went to North Carolina then to Florida to work in strip bars and only visits the kid about once a year. My mother-in-law is 70+ years old and really has no business raising a little kid. What i'm getting at is I know what I said in my other reply about nobody having the right to tell someone not to breed..........but in this girl's case I would love to take her and have her tubes tied. I know as soon as she gets knocked up again she will bring the baby here after a few months and dump it off on somebody else. Another thing, she refuses to give my mother-in-law legal custody of the kid because of her taxes. I am not kidding! That's the only reason. So she can claim her on her income tax. So in my opinion she should never be allowed to breed again. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 6:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 37872
LOL, I was kidding. |
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Date: 12/7/2003 10:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Ki Lan I dont know how you can put Jesus in your profile and then quote something out of a book about the antichrist. NOT only quote it but apparently believe in it. Who are you or any other person to dictate, what should be left alive, or to breed . So what does this mean we should slaughter the old, the mentally handicapped, those that are physically un-able to do things? Those that had limbs blown off in viet nam as they cant do things that others do? |
Date: 12/8/2003 7:06:00 AM
From Authorid: 25438
I pay taxes. Anyone on any kind of goverment assistance is wrong for bringing kids into the world. Kids that I have to pay for. If you can't afford to dress them, feed them, and send them to school....you shouldn't be having them.  |
Date: 12/8/2003 8:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 35455
Well, one thing is for sure...breeding will happen no matter what the opinion of others. Personally, I don't think that "breeding" should be a priority before finishing high school because I think parents need to be a large part of their childs life, and that includes teaching them or even helping them learn. Education is important and If two people who are educated but lack finances are in love and want to raise a family, I think they would be okay. But I think it is irresponsible for a man and a woman who haven't even finished high school to have that many kids, especially if the father cannot hold down a job for whatever reason. It's not really about the money to me, because two very wealthy people who haven't finish high school should no more start a family than the poor people. It's more of a responsibility issue to me.  |
Date: 12/8/2003 10:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 28989
I think of people like J. Paul Getty--a slimy and incredibly wealthy person--who had children. And then I think of my own kind, generous, loving, and very poor parents (who had a lot of problems related to poverty, such as alcohol abuse, mental illness, etc.). And I turned out all right, having escaped the cycle of poverty, alcoholism, and so on, mostly because I saw the problems that my parents had as great lessons to learn from, great obstacles to overcome. I would never trade my upbringing for anyone else's. I don't think I would have learned as much growing up in a wealthy or even "normal" middle-class family. I definitely agree with you, author. The world is a better place with COIP's in it (Children of Impoverished Parents). Thanks for the post!  |
| Date: 12/8/2003 1:02:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Mollycat: I've heard diffent numbers for the average IQ varying between 90-98. |
| Date: 12/8/2003 1:07:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Moma Bug: I understand you feelings that you think she shouldn't be allowed to reproduce but the point I think we're all coming to here is that 1) there are no laws that say she can't reproduce, 2) it would be fascist if we enact such laws and 3) even if she did have another child and dump that child off on someone, while it is a burden to those that know her, that child might turn out to be the next wonder of the world. |
| Date: 12/8/2003 1:11:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Thanks Canoe, I also escaped the poverty cycle but unfortunately not enough learn from their parent's mistakes (like my 2 sibs), they just go on repeating "the sins of the father". |
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Date: 12/8/2003 8:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Some ugly comments here, delete mine if it is offensive. I don't care. I too pay taxes, lots, in my opinion. I won't go into details, that would ignorant and I don't plan on exposing my income level but the taxes I pay and the charities I give to are foremost with kids in my mind. I participate, my entire family participates in Make a Wish for kids with terminal or life threatening illness. Kids will always have my support and regardless of income or laying blame on unconcerned parents, I would rather give them everything I could than any other organization. Some seem to think there taxes only support children with little income and obviously resent that, my what a pretty world we live in. |
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Date: 12/8/2003 9:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 50435
I never said that all lower/no income families were all on welfare. You stated that your father wouldn't hear of going on welfare, therefore, my previous comments don't apply to you. No need to get nippety. |
| Date: 12/9/2003 12:09:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 Galleytuck: I wasn't getting nippity - it's just that you laid out only 2 examples of a multidimentional problem, which I felt was a limited perspective, as my personal situation doesn't fall into either of your examples and there are far more examples than just those three. |
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Date: 12/9/2003 8:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
I still don't agree with you, that anyone and everyone should just "have kids" without thinking of the consequences or end result. That's just called irresponsible. Children cost money...that's a reality and if they aren't provided for by those that CREATED them, someone else has to. This unfortunately, isn't the happy ending for all kids, many (not all) that weren't "planned" are abused, malnourished or totally neglected. These aren't perceptions...they're REALITIES. As for what you mentioned about some not being able to get free contraceptives.... then perhaps they shouldn't be having sex in the first place? I guess that's TOO complicated for people that continually and ACCIDENTALLY reproduce, since they're too selfish to be responsible and lack a "proactive" thought process. |
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Date: 12/9/2003 8:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
I wasn't quoting you in my above reply by the way...just stating that I don't agree that everyone regardless of their financial situation should have children. It's ultimately unfair to the child in MANY situations. |
| Date: 12/9/2003 9:45:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 62410 You Choose: I agree with you that it IS irresponsible. However the point I'm trying to make is that IT DOES happen... regardless of "responsibilty" and there is no WAY we can stop it from happening... so the REALITY is that we all have to deal with what happens. |
Date: 12/10/2003 7:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 53836
well, money doesn't make the person, it's all in their giving and loving capacity...and the poorest on earth are still capable of love...I am a mother of 4...no job, and separated from my husband (until January, as we have reconciled)...I couldn't imagine taking back all the laughter and smiles my children have given others...for that matter, my childhood menu often repeated things like spam, lima beans and chicken...  |
Date: 12/11/2003 3:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 10754
No. No real parental sense in bringing a child into the world if you cannot care for it. Now, if you want to place the child into adoptive services, that's one thing. Having and keeping kids when you know you cannot properly provide for them is downright stupid.  |
Date: 12/11/2003 3:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
I agree with Doheney. If you can't provide food, clothes, medical, and housing for a child, then you shouldn't make plans to have kids until you are able to.  |
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Date: 12/12/2003 7:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
Actually there are things that the government could do and there are things that each person can do. They can take responsibility for their body and their ability to produce children that will not be provided for and stop expecting everyone else to pick up their tab. |
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