Date: 10/19/2003 10:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
It was changed, not because of any allegiance to a God but for political reasons. I don't think it would be a danger to christians or any other religion to have it removed. People will always believe in their God of choice. The flag is supposed to unite us as citizens of our country. If we were to keep 'God' in it it would be making out that God is only on the side of America which, of course, would be preposterous. I agree with putting it back to its original state and leave it be not to be tampered with again. |
Date: 10/19/2003 10:54:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 60080
it was changed? you make it sound like it already happened? |
Date: 10/19/2003 11:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
I don't believe in forcing religion on anyone. I don't belive Jesus would do the samething. |
Date: 10/19/2003 11:54:00 AM
From Authorid: 61941
I say if you want to say it say it, if you don't then don't, respet everyone for there own beliefs. Just like when takeing the oath of enlistment, at the end you can either say" so help me, God." or "so help me.". I say leave it up to the kids to decide what they want to say. |
Date: 10/19/2003 12:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 49150
D.D. is right. It would be a slap in the face to our founding Father's. They are the one's who insured our freedom of religion, and this was written by them. These men were deeply religious, if it wasn't for that one fact, our country might not even exist. |
Date: 10/19/2003 2:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 61977
I do not have to read the post in its entirity to say that it should be put to vote by all people of this nation and then decide the democratic way. I know how I feel, but others shall be heard as well just as God has intended it. HUGS, |
Date: 10/19/2003 6:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
Crystal... the founding fathers didn't put 'God' in the pledge. They deliberately kept it out so that everyone could have freedom. It was put in in the 50s when there was a big fear of communists. They wanted people to think that communists were 'godless' people. Just another propaganda exercise. |
Date: 10/19/2003 7:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Francis Scott Key wrote the Star Spangled Banner in 1814. Though we usually sing the first verse, the fourth verse says, "O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand, Between their lov'd home and war's desolation. Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n-rescued land. Praise the pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation.Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, And this be our motto, "In God is our Trust." And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave, O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."
Though Francis Scott Key wrote additional poetry in the years following the battle at Fort McHenry, none ever came close to the popularity of his Star Spangled Banner. He never knew that his poem would be our National Anthem. It was not officially recognized as such until 1931. However, it was immensely popular and no one objected to the words then. I can understand why some do not want a reference to God in any of our future documents, etc. There are many who are citizens of America who do not believe in God and this is their country as well as the ones who do believe. Those of us who do believe should not push a God belief upon those who do not believe. We choose God as an individual, and since this nation has many different beliefs, we must take every individual into consideration. We all have our rights. I am sure there are non believers who fight for this nation's freedom as well as believers. This is the land of the free, not the land with a God concept which it was built upon. There were many documents signed with a God concept in the days of our forefathers. Today, things have changed and I do believe things need to be changed accordingly to the growth of our nation. I don't have to like what is fair, but fair is fair regardless. |
Date: 10/19/2003 10:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 52155
During the last 30 years we have removed God from the schools, and look where they are today. Are we really willing to remove God from the rest of the country? |
Date: 10/20/2003 6:00:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
Eddo, I see where you are coming from and I am not saying to remove God from any place. I am saying that we all must be fair and to consider all. What would be the problem if we would feel free to discuss any or all possibilities in our schools when it comes to evolution or creation instead of promoting one or the other? I am saying that we should make the necessary changes to include all. This is what freedom is about. |
Date: 10/20/2003 8:54:00 AM
From Authorid: 52155
My comment wasn't directed at you, Rusure, just a comment to all. |
Date: 10/20/2003 9:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 13974
No muffin man what koolade is talking about is the change in which "under God" was added to the pledge. The origional text did not contain this line. In one of my favorite books on my shelf (printed in 1942) the words under God are nowhere to be seen in the pledge. This is because they were added in 1954. It has been stated by the family members of Bellamy (the author of the pledge) that he would not have agreed with this addition to the pledge. Although he had written many things discussing "divine providence" he was a staunch supporter of the seperation of church and state. His son even wrote to congress to make them aware of his fathers views on the pledge whenit wa revised. This would not be the first or last revission if "under God" were to be removed. As for my personal views, I believe it should be removed. It has no place in the pledge. I completly agree with it's removal. I hear people going on about their freedoms of religion all the time, and how it is being taken away.This is foolishness. And Eddo, we have removed asbestos too, do you have any proof that the removal of religion from schools holds any more bearing on the state of our schools? You might as well sight the introduction of teflon into school cafaterias, it can be proven just as well. Besides, prayer was removed fourty years ago (at least that is when it really got rolling.) |
Date: 10/20/2003 10:05:00 AM
From Authorid: 52155
Does asbestos tell us not to kill each other? Does teflon let us know that stealing is wrong? Does either teach us to respect our parents and those in authority above us? sorry, no. Gone along with God are the morality teachings that came with him. |
Date: 10/20/2003 10:07:00 AM
From Authorid: 52155
and my alologies on getting the number of years wrong. You are right about the 1962 comment. |
Date: 10/20/2003 10:13:00 AM
From Authorid: 13974
Does a lack of Christianity equate to a loss of reason, and ethical behavior Eddo? Do people not know that they should not kill, steal, or harm other people? Is it impossible for a person who has never studied Christianity to embrace such beliefs? Without Christ, would people still know you shouldn't kill someone? I believe so, and even with "The Word of God" for others it just doesn't matter, so where is the correlation? How would removing the word God from the pledge (considering it wasn’t supposed to be part of it in the first place) supposed to have an adverse affect on the nation? |
Date: 10/20/2003 11:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 52155
lack of ethical teachings leads to lack of ethical behavior. Without the teachings of God, students do not get a dose of morality. Instead they get sex education at 10 years old. Without a higher authority, there is no need to follow what your teachers, parents, cops, etc. tell you. Who cares if you don't listen? Who cares if you do whatever you want, whenever you want? Who cares if you kill someone? Yeah, your parents say it is bad, but big deal, they are only people like you....... |
Date: 10/20/2003 3:10:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 60080
A simple quote that fits in here, :"There's no justice, there's just us |
Date: 10/21/2003 7:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 13974
Again Eddo, you claim the only way people can be ethical and good, is through God. Where as if God weren't watching, people would do anything they liked, regarless of if it hurt anyone? That is foolish, and dead wrong. Just because you would run around like a lunatic if God werent there to punish you for it, does not mean the rest of us would. I see christians every day doing bad things, and people of all other sorts being fantastic people. Just because you are incapable of self control without your particular deity to keep you under control has nothing to do with the rest of us. Lack of Christianity DOES NOT equal lack of morals. |
Date: 10/21/2003 8:33:00 AM
From Authorid: 52155
YOu make a good argument Phydeux, but unfortunately society shows us just the opposite. As our country (The USA) moves father away from God and his morals, society steadily declines- crime, welfare, suicide, drug use, hate crimes, have all been on the rise in the last 10-20 years. Society proves you wrong Phydeux. |
Date: 10/21/2003 8:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 13974
How does society prove me wrong. I could just as easily blame this decline on the invention of the color television, or audio cassets. You have no evidence that this so called decline is in any way related to a move from christianity. In what way can you show the two subjects are related? And how does this show that without christianity people cannot be moral and ethical? |
Date: 10/21/2003 8:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 13974
You give no evidence, no proof, just rhetoric. |
Date: 10/21/2003 9:06:00 AM
From Authorid: 52155
Phyeux, we are going in circles now. There is no moral lessons to be learned from color television or audio cassettes. There are moral lessons that can be learned from God. Remove God and remove the lessons that come from Him, that have always come from Him, and yes, morality will decline. Once again, Society is proving that, if you will take an honest look at it. |
Date: 10/21/2003 9:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 13974
Society is not proving anything. You see two socially moral trends, and show no relation between the two. As far as God giving us morality, that is up to interpritation, and perspective. You still have yet to answer my questions Eddo, THAT is why we are going in circles. You cannot show that loss of Christianity is to blame any more than anything else in the world. It is rhetoric, not evidence. Just because you think so means nothing. You can think the moon was made of cheese, it doesn't make it so. No, about how lack of Christianity equals lack of morals, are you going to answer this or not? |
Date: 10/21/2003 9:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 52155
I have answered it Phydeux. I have shown proof in moral decay of society. You chose not to see it. |
Date: 10/21/2003 10:07:00 AM
From Authorid: 13974
WHAT PROOF?! You showed two social trends, you never showed a corolation between the two, or how a person is not capable of being moral, and ethical without Christianity. |
Date: 10/21/2003 10:28:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
I'd like to see good citizenship classes in schools. Classes based on the book and televsion series 'Chicken Soup For The Soul' would go a long way to improving. Morality is not, and should not be dependent on religion. And it can be taught without reference to a religion. If you beleive in God, then nothing can take God away from anything. |
Date: 10/21/2003 11:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
Eddo, Just something to think about. The US claims to be a Christian nation, but do we see the ethical teachings of God? Watch how many in the political world, in the entertainment fields, etc., etc., will proudly use God's name and claim that this nation is of God, but then notice the very unholy things they do. My point is, Why mock God? Why use His name? Why fight about removing God's name from any place? Why call on God and do not the things He says? This nation is not of God, though it started with a God belief. God let go of the Israelites because the people were doing the same things America is doing today. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for the same things America is doing today. Was it pleasing to God then because some used His name? No, He called it mockery and hypocritical. |
Date: 10/21/2003 11:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
America is about the citizens of America. This includes believers and non believers, etc..America claims to be the land who fights for the rights of all. Do not the non believers have the same rights as the believers? The non believers fight alongside the believers in wars to ensure America us our freedoms and rights. Why would the non believers want to fight for a nation that holds up a sign which states "One nation under God" when they don't even believe in a God? America should represent and stand for ALL of it's citizens, not just some. |
Date: 10/21/2003 6:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
Way to go Rusure!!! Way to go.... as to your last reply. |