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Date: 9/25/2003 9:46:00 AM From Authorid: 27534 Our original sin was the failure to follow God's command and eating fruit of the tree of knowledge to vainly think we are as smart as God. And then an Angel was sent to cut down the tree of Life which would have given eternal life.....so to answer your question ....do we play God....yes....we do....and we do it poorly. |
Date: 9/25/2003 9:58:00 AM From Authorid: 62118 If the Biblical God you're talking about then yes, hopefully we do a better job, most the time our definition of justice and fairness are far superior to that of God. |
Date: 9/25/2003 9:59:00 AM From Authorid: 30747 Forgive me for not reading all of your post as it is long and I'm sneaking in from work. It is an interesting post though and from what I did read I have to wonder if maybe God is speaking metaphorically. As for us playing God, I have to agree with Wise. We do and we don't do such a great job of it. Are we smarter than God? Not by any stretch of the imagination. |
Date: 9/25/2003 10:15:00 AM From Authorid: 18527 I think a lot of it is metaphorical |
Date: 9/25/2003 10:44:00 AM From Authorid: 54987 I think it points more to a deist God than a biblical God. Like God is in all nature... in everything. But it is explained in metaphorical terms (as Kethria said). Most of us can only think in terms of metaphores for concepts that are hard to grasp. And a universal intelligence, to primitive intellects, would be hard to grasp. |
Date: 9/25/2003 11:22:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
Wise, HOW has man done it "poorly"? Looking back on just the little time that *I* have been on this planet, I can come up with a gadzillion different inventions that has unburdened and made life much better, safer and easier for all of us. WHAT has this "god" done for mankind, but to hold back, enslave, and deny and suppress any and all progress and drive man to madness and do all kinds of horrible things in his name??Mankind has access to better and better techniques of genetic engineering. It seems unavoidable (which is not meant in any negatively moral sense) that one day we will be able to make human beings; in fact, improve human beings. It seems only logical to assume that, within the near future, we will be able to create beings more intelligent and wise than we are, by means of genetic engineering. When this is possible, this will happen. No-one has ever stopped the use of knowledge, and it seems to asume no-one ever will. So, there will come into existence a population of beings who are more intelligent and more wise than we. It seems unavoidable that after a time these beings will take power. As inferior beings, mankind will gradually make place for these higher beings, who most probably will be succeeded by even more successfully engineered beings who are even wiser and more intelligent. A race of beings more capable of finding reality, more capable of intelligence and wisdom, maybe more capable of strong emotions... a race that is higher than Man, whose most inferior individuals still can laugh about the foolishness of Man just as WE DO TODAY in looking back at the ignorance and silly beliefs and practices of the Stone Age and biblical times. 2000 years is NOT but a mere second on the pages of TIME that this Earth has been here, and even less than that, when compared to the time of the UINIVERSE as a whole. And, we , MAN has come a LONG WAY, baby.....in such a short time. Religion and the clergy has fought , clawed, scratched and screamed....fighting every inch of the way AGAINST science and against knowledge, and against any progress. |
Date: 9/25/2003 11:35:00 AM From Authorid: 27534 My ownly reply is this......that when it is all said and done......there is love.......and to know God is to know love.......in the end when the body is gone and all that is left is spirit....is it a spirit of love.....and Thinker....forgive me......my statement is based on my own experiences.....beliefs.....and knowledge......and right now....this very moment.....as smart as I thought I was.....as smart as I am......I can only seek God's love and hope he will as creator of the universe handle things I find that I am powerless to do that presently threaten my heart and the heart of someone I love.....so there was no great debate meant in my reply.....it was my own cry....my own acknowledgement....that God is always the answer and does it better. |
Date: 9/25/2003 11:39:00 AM From Authorid: 27534 So....if you will excuse me......my ownly request is....if you cannot pray on my behalf at this moment.....then send your best thoughts and wishes....as I said.....I am dealing with alot that I can only say my hope is in God. |
Date: 9/25/2003 12:54:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924 IF one can only feel and know love if we have a god belief; and IF "God is love" as is explained by the existence of a god, then why are so many people who DO believe in a god so utterly devoid of any tendencies that we would even call humane? The ancient Jews were butchers, as were the Christians and the Muslims. These three warring sects still account for much of today's bloodshed. If a god is, he or she is not having much impact on the masses. I USED TO THINK I knew what love was; I used to think that one could not know "true" love unless they ahd a god belief. I NOW know that love is a very real, very HUMAN feeling/emotion, and is just as real as real can get, maybe more so, because I realize that THIS life is the only shot we get at life; and thus it is so much more sweeter, more intense, and more important to me. When someone says (when they THINK I am a christian) that they "love" me, or "love" anyone, but then if they find out one is an atheist, or homosexual, or someone of another religion; then that "love" changes drastically. This is what I have seen so many times. Wise, I do understand when you say you have overwhelming events in your life that you find comfort in calling upon your God; as that is very much what I did for so many years. That holds true for many; and I'm certain that is the way it will always be for many. I DO send out good thoughts and wishes for you, for wisdom, for strength, and for comfort, in any way that you can get through this. |
Date: 9/25/2003 5:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
God asks Job, "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?" God said in Gen 1-12 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep, etc. God laid the foundations of the earth, the basis on which it stands, is founded, and is supported. When God speaks of laying 'the foundations of the earth', He is saying that He created those irreversible laws by which all its motions are governed, its annual and daily rotation, its centrifugal and centripetal forces; the great velocity of its motion round its own axis. These are, properly speaking, the foundations of the earth; the principles on which it is constructed, and the laws by which it is governed. God is speaking to Job according to man's way of building. "Who marked off its dimensions?" Who stretched a measuring line across it? (Who decided what measurements it will have?)On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone? An architect will mark of dimensions with a ruler (measuring tape or line) and they will lay it's footings and will continue to build and lay the cornerstones which connects each intersected corner. Man is limited in his ability to understand and God knows this and often speaks to man in ways he will understand. God gave man a brain in which to seek knowledge but man cannot created a universe, an earth, life as we know it, etc. Man can only make use of what has been given unto him by God and take it from there, but he cannot do anything without the necessary materials which God has supplied unto him. Man only thinks he is great in his own mind. |
Date: 9/25/2003 7:02:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
"God thinks that the Earth has a "cornerstone" and "footings", whereas we know today that it is spherical with NO cornerstone or "footings", and that under the crust lies molten mantle, not a "foundation". The "solid" Earth is but a skin floating atop a liquid mass. He also makes a second preposterous claim, saying that he stretched a "measuring line" across the Earth. Such a line would give slightly different measurements depending on where he put it (the Earth is not quite a perfect sphere). Moreover, all materials have finite elasticity, which would create a large measurement error in a line of sufficient length to encircle the planet. Our own measurements of the Earth's dimensions are superior to whatever he might have achieved with a "measuring line". MY point is that a "ALL KNOWING Supreme God" (all knowing would mean that HE KNEW the shape of the Earth, the crust; the underlying CORE to be molten) would most certainly NOT use terms such as "foundation" "marked off" "footings" "measuring line" and "cornerstone". Those words are written by MAN who believed the earth, the world, to be FLAT with corners; MAN who was ignorant of science, math, and physics. MAN has EVOLVED over millions of years; MAN has struggled and crawled and walked this planet; MAN has survived using his natural senses, instincts and his brain; and MAN has brought us to this currrent level of existence, and MAN will , by HIS OWN efforts, will progress. The entire biblical creation story makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever, WHEN one realistically; logically, with a reasoning mind, THINKS it through. I mean..... Imagine for a moment a solid steel ball the size of the universe today, then imagine a bird that flys by once every million years to give it a single peck, by the time this massive steel ball has been withered down to nothing, Eternity will have only only begun!! Our teeny, tiny...itty-bitty little ole less-than-a-pea-sized planet (in comparison to billions and billions of other stars in the Universe) was formed out of an explosion; and cooled, and because of its position in the Universe, the conditions were such as to generate plants and other organisms which evolved. Evolution is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO slow; very slow, and after millions upon millions of years......we are here, as we are now. MAN is the one that is impatient; MAN is the one who just gotta-have-answers-right now. So, MAN, in his ignorance, slapped a god label on everything he knew nothing about, that he wondered about, pondered, and or feared. |
Date: 9/25/2003 7:10:00 PM From Authorid: 62357 1 Corinthians 8....And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.... You know, youre doing EXACTLY what Lucifer did that got him cast into Hell. hell was created for him and his followers, because he wanted supreme rule over God. Have you not realized that the smarter the worlds population becomes, always seeking knowledge of this and that, the more corrupt we all become? We are quickly becoming our OWN GOD, worshipping creation instead of Creator. Not me, pal. I'm just a sinner saved by grace, and claim to know NOTHING save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Satan has already tested your theory, and failed bitterly.----1 Corinthians 1:17-19....For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with WISDOM of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross to them that PERISH foolishness; but unto us who are saved, the power of GOD. For ti is written, I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE, AND WILL BRING TO NOTHING THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE PRUDENT........Verse 27....But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to CONFOUND the wise;and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to CONFOUND the things which are mighty.....' I would recommend that you read also the second chapter of 1 Corinthians in it's entirety before you type another letter of the alphabet comparing human knowledge to the Almighty God. Darlene |
Date: 9/25/2003 7:54:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924 Darlene, You assume way to much. You assume that I am this dummy; this blinded and ignorant soul, looking to "rule supreme over god". NOT! 1st of all, IF that were so, then I would be acknowleging that there IS a god to even "rule" over. The same applies for any "Lucifer" that YOU believe in. Please, do not assume that YOU know MY mind; MY thoughts; MY reasoning or anything else for that matter. ALL of that "destroy wisdom of the wise" "the ways of the world is foolish" "Fool hath said" kind of scripture WAS created and written by MAN, to control, and to enslave. Ok, so YOU bought it; YOU believe it; and it makes sense to YOU.....but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with reality and truthfulness. And, I HAVE read 1 Corinthians. It doesn't make one iota of sense that this alleged "loving" god would give us a brain, and ALL the wonders of the Earth; but then tell us NOT to use that brain in learning about all these things, for all " wisdom Of the world is foolish". It is utterly ridiculous when you THINK about it. IF man had believed all that; and had ONLY relied upon a mythical god for answers, we would ALL still be roaming around in animal skins, living in a cave, and "glorifying" gods. |
Date: 9/25/2003 8:07:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
"The smarter the world's population becomes, always seeking knowlege of this and that, the more corrupt we all become".....COME ON! What does that mean? Sounds like something you heard the preacher preaching. Man's quest for knowlege "of this and that" IS what took us out of the Dark Ages, and enabled man to enjoy a much longer life span than his predecessors , and EDUCATION is what dispels belief in ghosts, gods, demons and things that "go bump in the night". Hey, Darlene, go take a look at a post I did: http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm341849.html |
Date: 9/25/2003 8:12:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
George Gaylord Simpson Paleontologist of Harvard.... "Man stands alone in the universe, a unique product of a long, unconscious, impersonal, material process with unique understanding and potentialities. These he owes to no one but himself, and it is to himself that he is responsible. He is not the creature of uncontrollable and undeterminable forces, but is his own master. He can and must decide and manage his own destiny"= -- George Gaylord Simpson, Life of the Past (1953), p. 155 |
Date: 9/26/2003 12:12:00 AM From Authorid: 48250 I am Simply Stating How I feel.., in my Own Personal Experiences, these past 3 years.. When I Lost my Husband...I Felt as Though I had been Dropped Out at The Deep End of The Ocean So to Speak....When No One was There For Me....In The Stillness and Silence of A Night That Seemed Endless...When I Felt....I Could No Longer Go On...Endure The Devastating Loss of My Beloved.....I Felt The Presence of The Heavenly Father... and Felt Him ...Whispering to me... In A Still Small Voice.., Whispering To My Heart To My Soul....I Am Here, Just Reach Out.....I Will Never Leave, Neither Forsake You.....I Am Here Always....When No One Else is....I Am Here....I Thank God For His Love and His Marvellous Grace....Once Again I am Going Through a Very Difficult time with a man whom has been Stalking me...making death threats, etc.....my attorney says a piece of paper cannot stop bullets.., this is true... and when I am alone at night...I know Someone is Watching Over me....Ever Present.....Have a Great weekend, every one....Take/Care..... |
Date: 9/26/2003 6:22:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
"Every time we say that God is the author of some phenomenon, that signifies that we are ignorant of how such a phenomenon was able to operate by the aid of forces or causes that we know in nature. It is thus that the generality of mankind, whose lot is ignorance, attributes to the Divinity, not only the unusual effects which strike them, but moreover the most simple events, of which the causes are the most simple to understand by whomever is able to study them. In a word, man has always respected unknown causes, surprising effects that his ignorance kept him from unraveling. It was on this debris of nature that man raised the imaginary colossus of the Divinity. If ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature is made for their destruction. In proportion as man taught himself, his strength and his resources augmented with his knowledge; science, the arts, industry, furnished him assistance; experience reassured him or procured for him means of resistance to the efforts of many causes which ceased to alarm as soon as they became understood. In a word, his terrors dissipated in the same proportion as his mind became enlightened. The educated man ceases to be superstitious"==Shelley |
Date: 9/26/2003 7:20:00 AM From Authorid: 54987 Thinker... I think it is not so much that a God exists but that people use it to take away our personal responsibility for our own actions. If people believe in God then that is fine and gives comfort to them. I agree with you that as man becomes more educated, he relies less and less on superstition. However, a believe in God is not synonomous with ignorance. Many educated and prominent men and women believe that there is a universal intelligence that underpins our existence. Though maybe not seeing this God as an individualized entity, many do recognize that there is more to the universe than physical matter. Our mistake, perhaps, is not to see this as a part of ourselves, but external from ourselves. To summarize and answer your question: I believe that, indeed, we do 'play' at being God because we are a part of that God. And, in our everyday lives we are constantly creating as individuals, but as we view our world from a larger perspective we can see how we are acting as a much larger entity in creating the environment around us and, in turn, the universe. Phew! I don't know where that came from... hope I haven't offended in any way. Hugs. |
Date: 9/26/2003 10:06:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
I think that for many people, in times of hardships and death of loved ones, people cling more tightly to their religion rather than to question its validity. It's as if, stranded in the seas of uncertainty, people hold tightly to what they believe is a life preserver. The problem is that clinging to that "life preserver" may keep people from taking the necessary actions, such as trying to "swim" if that is what is warranted. Ultimately, it is all about fear and uncertainty, and wanting to find some source of control where there is none beyond controlling our own actions, and to find comfort where there seems to be little or none. In times like that, I have myself often wished that I could find solace in prayer and the belief in some greater good or overriding order of the universe that would make things alright. It is just a normal, HUMAN need. But I am very aware of what it is that I am feeling, and WHY, and since I prefer REALITY and truthfulness over comforting myths or wishes, that is what gives me strength. There MAY BE "more to the Universe" than the material, the physical; but until something is provable, verifiable and self-evident, then I refuse to slap a Divine label of sorts onto an unknown or unseen phenomena and call it a day. (or go out and proclaim it as a truth). Thank you, and all of you guys for your replies. |
Date: 9/26/2003 11:28:00 AM From Authorid: 62357 Well this is SIMPLE as dirt, Thinker... If you dont believe in God at all, why would you seek out opinions of His Knowledge compared to humankind? I did not write the Bible, but, I DO believe every word printed on every page, on every chapter of each Book of the Bible. Funny how the Truth brings about such disdain, and I'm not saying I can read your mind, but HE can. The number of hairs on your head are numbered, and He knew that before we took time to count them. It is amazing how much Knowledge we have obtained in the last century, and it's even more amazing that we can look upon creation now and say 'there is no GOD'. It's not MY words that make you so upset, but the words of God, His son Jesus Christ, and The Holy Ghost that witnesses through the Christian believers. I am no better than you, but I do not own myself anymore, and owe all respect to the God of the whole Universe, Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. And, yes He gave us all an intelligent brain, able to make decisions for ourselves, but the reality is there's only two major ones that count here. Belief or unbelief. Picture this..... In a world that teaches Darwinism, evolution as creator, and our knowledge being so magnificent in OUR eyes and minds......What if He set it up that way to test our Faith in His Word? What if He knew from the beginning that our Knowledge would become so great, and we found ways to explain life that sounds Better than what He has already done? What if He seeks the pure of heart, who come humble as little lambs saying "You are the God I believe in despite worldly opinion and knowledge of mankind"? This may not have occurred to you before, but if I die, believing in christ, and He is not real, then what have I lost? But, what if you die, believing in NOTHING, and Christ IS real, what have you lost? What have you if you gain the whole world and lose your soul? Not my words, Thinker. Whether or not YOU believe is not my goal in this correspondence, but the defense of the Truth. No one will ever make you believe and trying is pointless, but dont insult our intelligence with these ideas, because if you had no interest in the Bible, you wouldnt have went so painstakingly out of your way to disprove it. Please dont try to tell me that some professor at Harvard has some 'inside' knowledge about what 'we're doing here on earth', because he is a mere mortal, once born and has an appointment with death, the same as you and I. Has he died yet? How does he know? Christ was crucified, rose from the dead to save the whole world, If they believed, and no Harvard man has ever done that for you, or me, or millions more. Death is just a doorway into eternity, and who here will escape it? But the 'Second Death', I will not suffer, because Christ has the keys, and He holds my soul. That, I do KNOW, and will never forsake. Darlene |
Date: 9/26/2003 11:58:00 AM From Authorid: 3125 I personally know, or have heard of, or have studied the works of many very educated intelligent people who have studied both sides of the coin and still come to the conclusion that this universe was created by a great intellect. When those who do not believe in a God states "The educated man ceases to be superstitious" they are coming to a close minded conclusion. Let's put it this way. I do not believe that you nor I are uneducated though we have different beliefs. I do believe that I am more open minded to both claims, that of evolution and that of a Creator. I have studied extensively both sides of the coin with an open mind and a williness to let the evidence that each presents to influence my conclusion. I refuse to be influenced by one more than the other but I let the evidence be my guide. As I studied, I did not look for something to support my preconceived ideas but I considered both sides with a open mind. In my studies, I came to the conclusion of God 100% and Man 0%. I am very aware that man can deceive himself and are capable of believing myths or things that seem to be, but the logic conclusion is that either this universe came about by a Great accident or there is a Great intellect behind it all. After studying what evolution has put forth, it is much more logical for me (and many others) to believe that a Great intellect created this complex masterpiece. The intricate design of male and female proves to me that there is a purpose and a plan behind all this. |
Date: 9/26/2003 11:59:00 AM From Authorid: 3125 The human body is made up of trillions of cells. A cell is composed of a number of specialized parts of which are the nucleus, cytoplasm and the cell membrane. These are the most important parts of a cell. Each cell is to perform specialized functions. Now the tissues of the body are not thrown together in a haphazard fashion as if there is no orderly plan, but are organized into groups to form organs. These organs are the skin, stomach, liver, lungs, brain, heart, and kidneys. These organs are associated with other organs to make up systems. The major systems of our body are the digestive system, circulatory system, respiratory system, endocrine system, reproductive system, excretory system, skeletal system, muscular system and nervous system. The activities of each of these systems are essential, each one depending on the other. The chances for all this coming together in such a complex, orderly, working fashion would be very, very slim, whether given a few million years or a few trillion years. This complexed universe and all that is in it, which all works together, all relying on each other in order to exist could not be old enough to just to have come together accidently in such an awesome way. So you see..People use logic to come to their conclusions of a Great powerful intellect rather than hiding their heads in the sand and choosing to believe in myths. People can call the God concept a myth if they choose, but to me and many others, the evolution concept would fit more into the myth category. You tell me just how such a wonderful made product such as the human can come about as the result of an accident. The structure and functions of the human body are downright remarkable. NOTHING in this universe has EVER prove to have come about by an accident, so why is it so hard to comprehend a great intellect behind all this? As I said many other times, After studying all that has been put forth, it is more logical to believe in a Great intellectual Creator who had a working design, a working plan, and a working purpose for it all. I believe it is close minded and a cop out for those who conclude that all who believe in a Great Intellect are uneducated myth believing people. |
Date: 9/26/2003 12:12:00 PM From Authorid: 62357 P.S.....I found the scripture I was looking for, if you please.....II Timothy 3:1-17....This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. (2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters,proud,blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,..(3) Without natural affection, turcebreakers, false accusers,incontienent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,...(4) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God; (5) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power of: from such turn away. (6) For of this sort are thet which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sin, led away with divers lusts, (7) Ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. (8) Now as Jan'-nes and Jam'-bres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. (9) But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be made manifest unto ALL men, as their's also was. (10) But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, and patience, (11) Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra, what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. (12) Yea, and all that will live Godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. (13) But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. (14) But continue in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, Knowing OF WHOM thou hast learned them; (15) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee WISE unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (16) All scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works....... That's in reference to preachers. God knew many would turn away from Him, and if you read the Fourth chapter, you'll understand why we DONT turn away, and why we do listen to preachers, who preach undefiled truth. Timothy was a true man of God, and I'll take his word over your professor, who serves himself. Sounds like something Anton LeVey would say. Familiar with him? Darlene |
Date: 9/26/2003 12:32:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 24924
I don't seek out opinions of "his knowledge". I seek out HUMANS opinions on what, how, and why, THEY think or believe the way they do. As for the WHY I do this, is because RELIGION, whether I like it or not, DOES affect greatly the entire world, and it affects ME, insofar as the Christian far religious right insistence on EVERYONE believing THEIR way and the blatant intrusive measures taken to MAKE me go along with and or profess allegience to their god , i.e., the "In God We Trust" on our money; "Under God" placed in the pledge replacing the ORIGINAL "INDIVISIBLE", and a whole laundry list that DOES affect, does bother me very much. Also, I have studied our history; world histories; the church histories, religions, origins of religions, mythologies of all kinds, etc, etc., and the Christian religion in particular has a history of destruction in world history. YOU SAID: "Funny how the truth brings about such disdain"<<<<<<<Wrong! It is NOT truth that brings MY disdain, but people who INSIST on slandering and misrepresenting; revising and reconstucting; and preaching and insisting that THEIR way is THE ONLY way, and everyone else is going to burn in hell. THAT.....is what is "simple as dirt", Darlene. Think about it: according to the Jesus myth, I will experience more pain than the whole history of the world combined, simply because every Christian I have met, who has tried to set me straight and help me see the light, has made no more sense than you have. No. I don't buy it. Even if it were true, I wouldn't want anything to do with one who would invent such a contraption as the Christian Hell. But it isn't true, there is no Christian Hell, and for that we can ALL rejoice. For example, the crusades, the witch hunts, the fighting in Ireland, and many other wars that were said to occur in the name of Christ; These would never have happened if they actually followed what Christ had commanded them to do. They all thought they were doing Christ's will: Christ: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (Jn. xv. 6. -- the passage which was used, for centuries, to justify burning my forebears at the stake for disbelieving the myth of Christ) Christ (if his claims to having been God were true): "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." (Ex. xxii. 18.) Christ: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Mt. x. 34-37ff.) You see? The witch burners and the Irish are simply following orders from the "Revealed Word" and are placing the "love" of Christ above their own human emotions. I find it hard to believe that people can do this to their minds, but they do. And they all think they are doing the will of a god, which has been revealed in some kind of bible. I've seen the gleam in the eyes of those who despise me, when they tell me "If I'm right I will go to heaven, but if YOU are wrong you will go to hell". OOOOOKay....whatever. If that makes someone happy to believe in such craziness.....so be it. |
Date: 9/26/2003 9:00:00 PM From Authorid: 62357 ....And, God knew that many atrocities would be committed in his name, such as the witch hunts, slavery, ect,ect, ect,.... That's why 'Thou shalt not kill' should be on the courthouses, because God will judge rightfully to every person accordingly. Many have died as a result of pure nonsense, because WE HUMANS are not God, nor know the mind of GOD, and only have the Bible to get to know Him, although once born-again through Jesus, the Holy Spirit communes with us through prayer and worship. He even said many will come saying "Lord we have cast out Devils in your name," and the Lord will say "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never KNEW you". He knows who serves Him, and He knows all the wolves in sheeps clothing, and He will not be Mocked. The Bible is true. Mankind deceives itself, and It's not faith in God that does it. It's that old thinking that we're somehow so righteous in our own conceits that brings us down. God does not send people to Hell. People choose to go, and it is a choice, a personal choice, although they do not realize what awaits them. To experience the love of God is the greatest feeling on this earth,and to understand what Christ did for us all is the finest example. No, a human mind cannot comprehend there being a Hell, but we can neither understand sending our son to die for the whole world. If I let my child die in order to save YOU, and you rejected that, the Greatest sacrifice one could make, what would justice for you then be? Hell was created for Satan and his followers, not for humans. We were created to worship God, not to suffer damnation. But, the very act of rejecting the Son sends us trodding after Satan, whether we see that or not. Christians dont pass judgement on you ,Thinker. We dont have that power, and DONT want it. You pass judgement on yourself,by denying there is a God. You dont have to believe in Him for Him to actually be real. My belief in Him doesnt make Him real. Churches and preachers and choirs that sing like angels do not make Him real. John 52....For the father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgement to the Son: (23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the father which hath sent Him. (24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life...... That is the hope of the world, and the world does not HAVE to except it, and may go on as she wishes, but all is in vain if the greatest promise ever made is missed due to the 'mighty' thoughts of mankind. He is Real because He IS. Not was, or could have been at one time, or maybe... IS. And, all of the immoral acts that have been done in His name will be rightfully judged, if forgiveness was never sought. We are frail in ourselves, and all have come short of the glory of God, but through the blood of Christ and a truly repentant heart, none HAVE to perish. And, none are worthy of that, but by the grace of God, it has been done for us all. That is LOVE. Not hatred. Love. Hatred is what WE do. Evil is our covenant with Satan, even if we dont believe in Satan. But, there's a better way, and I'll stick to that, because I'm not taking a chance with Forever. Darlene |
Date: 9/27/2003 5:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
"And, God knew that many atrocities would be committed in his name, such as the witch hunts, slavery, ect,ect, ect,...." - God COMMANDED these atrocities, the later ones in the middle ages were lead by the Church. "The Bible is true. Mankind deceives itself, and It's not faith in God that does it." - The Bible is the deception, throughout history people have believed wrong ideas because of the Bible, only through question the Bible have we found the truth. "God does not send people to Hell. People choose to go, and it is a choice, a personal choice, although they do not realize what awaits them." - Revelations say it is God who decides and has people thrown into the lake of fire. "If I let my child die in order to save YOU, and you rejected that, the Greatest sacrifice one could make, what would justice for you then be?" - You want someone to accept a child killer? Too many times God punshes children for the parents sins, show me the justice in that. "He is Real because He IS. Not was, or could have been at one time, or maybe... IS." - Thats a poor argument, hes real because he IS, you can say that about ANYTHING. |
Date: 9/27/2003 5:44:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924 Darlene, no offense meant here at all, but IF I wanted to listen to sermons (one's that I've heard a zillion times) I'd go down the street to any number of churches which are on every corner where I live; or turn on one of the many christian broadcast evangelists on television. There simply isn't any of what you've said that I haven't heard over and over again. It STILL makes no sense. Thank you for your efforts anyway. |
Date: 9/27/2003 3:06:00 PM From Authorid: 62357 The child killer comment was uncalled for, and has nothing to do with what Jesus did on Calvary. I was speaking from how I believe God wants us to understand why He allowed Jesus to come and die. Twisting things up to make your point falls on deaf ears/ eyes, and any christian would understand that POV. I do not condone anything of the like, and take offense to ANY suggestion of the sort, but on the other hand, I knew my comment would not make sense to those who do not believe. God does have final say on who enters into the Kingdom, but make NO mistake, a plan of escape has been layed at our feet, and WE decide if we will be accepted or rejected. He loves us all, but do we love Him? Believe what you will. I have no control over that, only you do. But, if ye seek ye shall FIND... Darlene |
Date: 9/27/2003 3:11:00 PM From Authorid: 62357 I leave it there, Thinker, because if you have heard and still do not believe, it's all up to you now. But if you are going to criticize the Lord and scoff at Him, we who DO believe will stand up and say it. I hope you understand that someday, and also know that I do Appreciate your response anyway. Take care, Darlene |
Date: 9/28/2003 2:31:00 AM From Authorid: 62118 Was it uncalled for? Thats what it boils down to, you can sugar coat it all you want but its not going to change. Much of what you're saying is falling on deaf ears, but yet you continue. |
Date: 9/28/2003 8:01:00 AM From Authorid: 18527 Wow... great job Darlene! As for HOW we are doing it poorly, I work with cloned animals at my job, and I can tell you we do it VERY poorly! |
Date: 9/28/2003 9:27:00 AM From Authorid: 54987 You work with cloned animals Kethria? Wow what are you doing? Do you experiment or something on the animals? Have they cloned any humans yet? Do you experiment with the mixing of animal and human? |
Date: 9/28/2003 2:17:00 PM From Authorid: 62357 Well, there's one sure way we'll know the answers to the questions posed here, right? I'm satisfied with my resolve, and am Sure of my calling. Everyone will know at the end. God Bless you, and thats all I have to offer now....Darlene ( p.s. I PREFER the unsweetened version, KJV) |
Date: 9/28/2003 6:21:00 PM From Authorid: 54987 Well that's nice Darlene. And you're right... everyone will know at the end. I thought KJV was the sweetened version... oh well! I prefer the one with the choclatey caramel taste myself. |
Date: 9/29/2003 3:46:00 AM From Authorid: 62118 All the Bibles make Gods actions seem good in some way, even when they are far from fair or loving. |
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