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PILGER FILM REVEALS COLIN POWELL SAID IRAQ WAS NO THREAT

  Author:  48525  Category:(News) Created:(9/23/2003 7:10:00 PM)
This post has been Viewed (2569 times)

By John Pilger

EXACTLY one year ago, Tony Blair told Parliament: "Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction programme is active, detailed and growing.

"The policy of containment is not working. The weapons of mass destruction programme is not shut down. It is up and running now."

Not only was every word of this false, it was part of a big lie invented in Washington within hours of the attacks of September 11 2001 and used to hoodwink the American public and distract the media from the real reason for attacking Iraq. "It was 95 per cent charade," a former senior CIA analyst told me.

An investigation of files and archive film for my TV documentary Breaking The Silence, together with interviews with former intelligence officers and senior Bush officials have revealed that Bush and Blair knew all along that Saddam Hussein was effectively disarmed.

Both Colin Powell, US Secretary of State, and Condoleezza Rice, President Bush's closest adviser, made clear before September 11 2001 that Saddam Hussein was no threat - to America, Europe or the Middle East.

In Cairo, on February 24 2001, Powell said: "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours."

This is the very opposite of what Bush and Blair said in public.

Powell even boasted that it was the US policy of "containment" that had effectively disarmed the Iraqi dictator - again the very opposite of what Blair said time and again. On May 15 2001, Powell went further and said that Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years". America, he said, had been successful in keeping him "in a box".

Two months later, Condoleezza Rice also described a weak, divided and militarily defenceless Iraq. "Saddam does not control the northern part of the country," she said. "We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."

So here were two of Bush's most important officials putting the lie to their own propaganda, and the Blair government's propaganda that subsequently provided the justification for an unprovoked, illegal attack on Iraq. The result was the deaths of what reliable studies now put at 50,000 people, civilians and mostly conscript Iraqi soldiers, as well as British and American troops. There is no estimate of the countless thousands of wounded.

In a torrent of propaganda seeking to justify this violence before and during the invasion, there were occasional truths that never made headlines. In April last year, Condoleezza Rice described September 11 2001 as an"enormous opportunity" and said America "must move to take advantage of these new opportunities."

Taking over Iraq, the world's second biggest oil producer, was the first such opportunity.

At 2.40pm on September 11, according to confidential notes taken by his aides, Donald Rumsfeld, the Defense Secretary, said he wanted to "hit" Iraq - even though not a shred of evidence existed that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with the attacks on New York and Washington. "Go massive," the notes quote Rumsfeld as saying. "Sweep it all up. Things related and not." Iraq was given a brief reprieve when it was decided instead to attack Afghanistan. This was the "softest option" and easiest to explain to the American people - even though not a single September 11 hijacker came from Afghanistan. In the meantime, securing the "big prize", Iraq, became an obsession in both Washington and London.

An Office of Special Plans was hurriedly set up in the Pentagon for the sole purpose of converting "loose" or unsubstantiated intelligence into US policy. This was a source from which Downing Street received much of the "evidence" of weapons of mass destruction we now know to be phoney.

CONTRARY to Blair's denials at the time, the decision to attack Iraq was set in motion on September 17 2001, just six days after the attacks on New York and Washington.

On that day, Bush signed a top-secret directive, ordering the Pentagon to begin planning "military options" for an invasion of Iraq. In July 2002, Condoleezza Rice told another Bush official who had voiced doubts about invading Iraq: "A decision has been made. Don't waste your breath."

The ultimate cynicism of this cover-up was expressed by Rumsfeld himself only last week. When asked why he thought most Americans still believed Saddam Hussein was behind the attacks of September 11, he replied: "I've not seen any indication that would lead me to believe I could say that."

It is this that makes the Hutton inquiry in London virtually a sham. By setting up an inquiry solely into the death of the weapons expert David Kelly, Blair has ensured there will be no official public investigation into the real reasons he and Bush attacked Iraq and into when exactly they made that decision. He has ensured there will be no headlines about disclosures in email traffic between Downing Street and the White House, only secretive tittle-tattle from Whitehall and the smearing of the messenger of Blair's misdeeds.

The sheer scale of this cover-up makes almost laughable the forensic cross-examination of the BBC reporter Andrew Gilligan about "anomalies" in the notes of his interview with David Kelly - when the story Gilligan told of government hypocrisy and deception was basically true.

Those pontificating about Gilligan failed to ask one vital question - why has Lord Hutton not recalled Tony Blair for cross-examination? Why is Blair not being asked why British sovereignty has been handed over to a gang in Washington whose extremism is no longer doubted by even the most conservative observers? No one knows the Bush extremists better than Ray McGovern, a former senior CIA officer and personal friend of George Bush senior, the President's father. In Breaking The Silence, he tells me: "They were referred to in the circles in which I moved when I was briefing at the top policy levels as 'the crazies'."

"Who referred to them as 'the crazies'?" I asked.

"All of us... in policy circles as well as intelligence circles... There is plenty of documented evidence that they have been planning these attacks for a long time and that 9/11 accelerated their plan. (The weapons of mass destruction issue) was all contrived, so was the connection of Iraq with al Qaeda. It was all PR... Josef Goebbels had this dictum: If you say something often enough, the people will believe it." He added: "I think we ought to be all worried about fascism (in the United States)."

The "crazies" include John Bolton, Under Secretary of State, who has made a personal mission of tearing up missile treaties with the Russians and threatening North Korea, and Douglas Feith, an Under Secretary of Defence, who ran a secret propaganda unit "reworking" intelligence about Iraq's weapons. I interviewed them both in Washington.

BOLTON boasted to me that the killing of as many as 10,000 Iraqi civilians in the invasion was "quite low if you look at the size of the military operation."

For raising the question of civilian casualties and asking which country America might attack next, I was told: "You must be a member of the Communist Party."

Over at the Pentagon, Feith, No 3 to Rumsfeld, spoke about the "precision" of American weapons and denied that many civilians had been killed. When I pressed him, an army colonel ordered my cameraman: "Stop the tape!" In Washington, the wholesale deaths of Iraqis is unmentionable. They are non-people; the more they resist the Anglo-American occupation, the more they are dismissed as "terrorists".

It is this slaughter in Iraq, a crime by any interpretation of an international law, that makes the Hutton inquiry absurd. While his lordship and the barristers play their semantic games, the spectre of thousands of dead human beings is never mentioned, and witnesses to this great crime are not called.

Jo Wilding, a young law graduate, is one such witness. She was one of a group of human rights observers in Baghdad during the bombing. She and the others lived with Iraqi families as the missiles and cluster bombs exploded around them. Where possible, they would follow the explosions to scenes of civilian casualties and trace the victims to hospitals and mortuaries, interviewing the eyewitnesses and doctors. She kept meticulous notes.

She saw children cut to pieces by shrapnel and screaming because there were no anaesthetics or painkillers. She saw Fatima, a mother stained with the blood of her eight children. She saw streets, mosques and farmhouses bombed by marauding aircraft. "Nothing could explain them," she told me, "other than that it was a deliberate attack on civilians."

As these atrocities were carried out in our name, why are we not hearing such crucial evidence? And why is Blair allowed to make yet more self-serving speeches, and none of them from the dock?

***USMer Note: This pretty much sinks the claims of having been duped and fed "false intelligence" by fleeing Iraqi officials that the admins of both US and UK have claimed since no WMD's ever existed to surface, and also calls into question the competancy of our illustrious VP Dick "Halliburtonpaysmewell" Cheney, who, even within the last week was still crying wolf on WMD's. Time to wake up and smell the coffee burning...Peace!

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Replies:      
Date: 9/23/2003 7:30:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    No offense but if you got these actual quotes online somewhere, whomever wrote them obviously doesn't use spellchecker and that weakens their credibility quite a bit for me. Can you list your resources on the location of this info, just curious?  
Date: 9/23/2003 7:39:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    Just wanted to add that I in NO way believe that our military deliberately targeted civilians... and I never will believe that. I basically watched the entire war on CNN and saw no signs of that. There were however, a few missiles that missed their intended targets or hit a building thought to be Governmental which ended up being civilian. No one can expect for there to be absolutely no mistakes during a war, that's unrealistic.  
Date: 9/23/2003 7:53:00 PM  From Authorid: 36704    Oh yeah that really does it for me. The guy says he has footage that proves these quotes and documents to prove the invasion of Iraq was preplanned but instead of giving the supposed footage and documents to news media around the country some of whom would love to show it 24 hours a day or even putting it on the web himself he decides to just write an article about it and post it on the web instead. Watch out, I'm a believer now.  
Date: 9/23/2003 8:10:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    LOL@Base....   
Date: 9/23/2003 8:30:00 PM  From Authorid: 36704    lol You Choose, Pilger has written a few books, done a couple of documentaries, but he's been a reporter for the UK tabloid The Mirror for twenty years. He always has a conspiracy theory. He even involves Clinton and his administration in the Iraq war saying they were part of it. "Having lived and worked in the United States, I must add that I don't want to make too much of the distinction between the Bush regime and its predecessors. I don't see a great deal of difference. Clinton kept funding Star Wars. He routinely bombed Iraq, and he kept the barbaric sanctions in place. He's really played his part. The Bush gang has taken it just a little further." He likes the Bush administration better then Clinton's though because "We're grateful to them because they've made it very clear to other people just how dangerous they are. Before, Clinton persuaded some people that he was really a civilized character and his Administration had the best interests of humanity at heart. These days we don't have to put up with that nonsense." He doesn't just have conspiracy theories against the US, he has them for other countries as well so I just laugh when I read his stuff, if nothing else it's entertaining that someone can actually be that far out there.  
Date: 9/23/2003 8:37:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    So true Base, So true...   
Date: 9/23/2003 9:35:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 48525    Too bad you're not as big a stickler for truth from your gov't as you are for correct spelling, You choose. I guess as long as the gov't uses correct spelling, grammar and punctuation when they lie, everything's cool. You didn't see anything on CNN that wasn't scripted and approved by the prophaganda ministers. There are such things as slander, libel and defamation of character laws. John Pilger doesn't seem to fear any lawsuits being filed against him for his findings. As far as broadcasting this, it WAS broadcast in the UK. The American media lacks the intestinal fortitude to actually report on these facts. This is more than likely due to the fact that they have been complicit from the begining, and to do so now would only draw attention to the fact that thy've been AWOL during this whole charade. It's easier to try to denounce Mr. Pilger than to accept the fact that the gov't knowingly and purposely lied to start a war of conquest-for-oil. Try doing a search on the net for PNAC (Project for a New American Century). When you find their homepage, you can see for yourselves not only the names of those involved as well as their intentions. You two might want to contact a deprogrammer, as well.  
Date: 9/24/2003 6:39:00 AM  From Authorid: 15228    Here’s a George W. Bush quote addressing the issue of imminent threat that you won’t find in Pilger’s comical television epic: "Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option". And now it’s not a problem.

  
Date: 9/24/2003 6:44:00 AM  From Authorid: 15228    Oh, and here is the FULL quote from Powell in case you are interested (though probably not): Here’s the full quote from Powell: "We will always try to consult with our friends in the region so that they are not surprised and do everything we can to explain the purpose of our responses. We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions--the fact that the sanctions exist-- not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq, and these are policies that we are going to keep in place, but we are always willing to review them to make sure that they are being carried out in a way that does not affect the Iraqi people but does affect the Iraqi regime's ambitions and the ability to acquire weapons of mass destruction, and we had a good conversation on this issue"....Amazing what a little creative editing will do to make someones point, eh?

  
Date: 9/24/2003 6:52:00 AM  From Authorid: 15228    U.S. Rep. Jim Marshall (D-Ga.), a Vietnam combat veteran, said: "On Sept. 14, I flew from Baghdad to Kuwait with Sgt. Trevor A. Blumberg from Dearborn, Mich. He was in a body bag. He'd been ambushed and killed that afternoon. Sitting in the cargo bay of a C 130E, I found myself wondering whether the news media were somehow complicit in his death". Garbage like this article is empowering terrorists in Iraq....as far as I'm concerned you people can sit and whine all day when our service members are in harms way...don't worry you are safe and sound and can disect every single little sentence ever uttered about Iraq. Why not go back and find out what Clinton said about Iraq????????? He said EXACTLY the same thing about Iraq being a threat. But don't let that stop anyone from saying this was a trumped up war from the beginning.
  
Date: 9/24/2003 7:37:00 AM  From Authorid: 61897    I didn't even have to finish reading this article, this Pilger guy sounds delusional. You Choose-it's not that he mispelled, that's how the words are written in the UK-"programme, neighbours, etc. etc.....".  
Date: 9/24/2003 7:58:00 AM  From Authorid: 6358    I agree with Base. In addition, what good is dredging it up going to accomplish? It's not going to take back the war or everything that happened so I have no comments regarding any of this.  
Date: 9/24/2003 8:45:00 AM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 48525    How about holding gov't officials accountable, Kewl Girl? Sheeple never cease to amaze me  
Date: 9/24/2003 8:54:00 AM  From Authorid: 15228    From an article about the Huton inquiry...not many people know that Kelly was a suporter of the war: The BBC reporter Andrew Gilligan was left isolated at the Hutton inquiry yesterday when he was forced to retract key elements of his controversial Today programme report while the corporation's head of news denounced his journalistic standards. In tough cross-examination lasting 2 hours, Gilligan said he had made a "slip of the tongue" when he said Downing Street inserted a claim in the September dossier that Iraq could launch weapons of mass destruction within 45 minutes, knowing it was wrong. He also conceded it was a mistake, in one of his broadcasts, to describe the weapons expert David Kelly as an "intelligence service source". And he admitted failing to correct the Today presenter John Humphrys for making the same error. Richard Sambrook, the BBC's director of news, said Gilligan failed to appreciate the "nuances and subtleties" of broadcast journalism, casting his reports in "primary colours" rather than shades of grey. Both admitted it was a serious error of judgment for Gilligan to email members of the foreign affairs committee (FAC), suggesting questions they might ask of Dr Kelly and effectively outing him as the source for reports by the BBC Newsnight journalist Susan Watts. Dr Kelly's body was found three days after appearing before the FAC, apparently after taking his own life, leading to the setting up of Lord Hutton's inquiry.

  
Date: 9/24/2003 8:56:00 AM  From Authorid: 15228    Typical liberal. Call people names when you disagree. You can't even be honest enough to do full research but instead rely on half truths, half quotes and not the full story.  
Date: 9/24/2003 9:03:00 AM  From Authorid: 2030    I don't think I'll be swayed much by a "cut and paste" article from the UK version of the National Inquirer. I suppose it was right there between the articles on crop circles and the "Bat Boy".  
Date: 9/24/2003 11:08:00 AM  From Authorid: 36704    Conspiracy theories are as old as time, they have and always will exist. It wasn't until the second half of the twentieth century that businesses saw the money that could be made from them. Since the assisination of JFK media has exploited the conspiracy market. From TV shows, to movies, newspapers, books, magazines and now the web. The conspiracy theory industry generates billions of dollars a year in revenues. They rely on peoples' lack of knowledge to blur the lines between fact and fiction. They also rely on the fact that most people who fall in line with one conspiracy theory will fall for many more. They know the majority will not try to verify the facts because conspiracy theories are self serving and meet a deep emotional need in many people. Conspiracy books fly off shelves, tv shows and movies about conspiracies are also big sellers. People seek drama, they have an inherent need for it, to think that there's something more then meets the eye. When controversial articles are printed in newspapers and magazines they sell more copies. Most articles include a website where you can buy the person's book or at least the name of a book the author of the article has written, most websites also promote the author's works. Some people even rely on conspiracy theories to solicit donations from people, people who are duped out of millions of dollars a year for groups and causes that don't exist. Democrats and Republicans both exploit conspiracy theories not because they believe it but to try to get votes. Conspiracy theories are good for the economy and good for big business, and depending on the theory good for a political party.  
Date: 9/24/2003 3:18:00 PM  From Authorid: 13729    Heres 2 facts for everybody: In '98 everyone agreed, the UN, the US and the UK, that Iraq was 90 percent dis-armed of weapons.....Now all of a sudden they can have a missile pointed at us in 45 minutes?..(Britian).....Also dont question wheather or not we bomb indiscrimenently..... After the Gulf War, Bush Sr, Cheney, Quayle, Powell, and Schwartskoph amoung others were all found guilty of War Crimes by The International War Crimes Tribunal, and this kind of bombing was one of the many things they were found guilty of ....do some research, or read my post about War Crimes, I already did the research......To whoever said " I basically watched the entire war on CNN and saw no signs of that"....What a ridiculous statement!......  
Date: 9/24/2003 4:21:00 PM  From Authorid: 36704    Ritzbe, the US was never found guilty by any credible international court. Just like the media counts on you to not verify the facts you did exactly that. You obviously did no research or I don't think you would have made a fool of yourself by making a post on it. The US and all of the people you mentioned were never taken to any real international court. Ramsey Clark started the CITIZEN's International Tribunal Court. It is not a recognized legal system. The final hearing for the case against Bush and the rest was held at Martin Luther King, Jr, High School in New York, get a grip, real trials are held in these neat little places called courts. The UN's first tribunals for Rwanda and Yugoslavia led to the formation of the International Criminal Court here's the link to the real international court http://www.un.org/law/icc/ What? No Ramsey Clark on there. Keep spreading the conspiracy theories you're making someone a lot of money with your free advertisement.  
Date: 9/24/2003 6:28:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    Chi-Girl, thanks for pointing that out. I didn't know he was from the UK. It still doesn't change the fact that this guy has no credibility though, as far as I'm concerned.  
Date: 9/24/2003 6:43:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    I will say... It was VERY late when I read this, so I was about half awake. I should've made the connection between the quotes being from Blair, their Prime Minister and how some words were spelled. I will admit, that I had no idea who Pilger was though, before this post. Now that I know he's been a UK tabloid reporter for 20 yrs, that pretty much verifies his lack of reliability, in my opinion.  
Date: 9/25/2003 12:51:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 48525    "Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions...?" Well, Dubya did in March of this year, just before he invaded Iraq. there seems to be a common cry of "credibility" in these replies about Mr. Pilger's findings, something I find both amusing and disgusting at the same time...the US gov't has ZERO credibility, every bogus claim they've made has been shown to be just that, bogus and flat out lies, and yet there are those of you who still cling desperately to those lies, shouting down the "credibility" of any who have fact and verification, never questioning their own gov't's story or motives. There's a serious lack of credibility, and I'll leave you with a clsoing thought: Our Founding Fathers knew the dangers of a nation who does not question and hold acountable their gov't leaders. They imparted us, the American public with the privilage of freedom, but also the immense task of "policing" the gov't. A good number of us "patriotic Americans" have fallen down on the job, refusing to excersise not only our freedom to question the gov't, but our responsibility to do so as well. Good ol' Ben Franklin said "Those who would sacrefice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security." The Founding Fathers must be spinning in their graves right now.  
Date: 9/25/2003 6:05:00 PM  From Authorid: 36704    In September 1989, two British citizens went to Indochina to do some field research. A year later, Anthony De Normann and Christopher MacKenzie were shocked to learn that their pictures were being shown in a television program on Cambodia. In July 1991, they sued Pilger and the television station which aired the film for libel. Pilger's lawyer knew that his case was thin. Pilger was persuaded to quickly settle out of court for a financial sum that both sides agreed would not be publicly disclosed. This case reveals much about John Pilger and his brand of journalism. Pilger is now being sued, again for libel, by a British member of Parliament, Rupert Allason, whom Pilger falsely accused of complicity in peddling intelligence information in the case surrounding the death by hanging of a British journalist in Iraq. In November 1992 a strong complaint, this time from the United
Nations Border Relief Operation (UNBRO), was also lodged against Pilger to the Broadcasting Complaints Commission pertaining to Pilger's allegation that United Nations logistical facilities in Cambodia were being secretly rented to the Khmer Rouge as a munitions warehouse. To understand Pilger, one must fathom the depth of his contempt for government. In Pilger's world, governments are the source of all evil. His pen is a sword not to defend a cause but to bleed governments. He revels in saying "I have made enemies in Southeast Asia". Hence, it is controversy making rather than fact-finding that is the hallmark of Pilger's journalism. Hype takes a premium over accuracy; impact over balance. The astonishing thing about Pilger is really not the message, which is an old song in a flashy jukebox, but the fact that some uninformed or semi-informed circles are taking his propositions as truth. When Pilger charged UNBRO of commercial complicity with the Khmer Rouge, he conveniently attributed the information to "our sources" and left it at that. The Broadcasting Complaints Commission, after thoroughly examining the case, later stated that "The Commission are not persuaded that the program makers had sufficient - or indeed any evidence of UNBRO's involvement" in property dealings with the Khmer Rouge. What motivates Pilger? "That's really beyond me," Rupert Allason said. Some may point to an insatiable craving for personal fame. Which Pilger certainly has done a good job at. De Normann, however, is more straightforward: "Money. He simply loves money". Whatever the answer, what captured my attention was a curious sentence at the very end of what was supposed to be a news column: "Pilger's account is contained in _Distant Voices_, 7.99
pounds sterling."

  
Date: 9/25/2003 6:09:00 PM  From Authorid: 36704    "The customary rational socialist discourse that we have become so accustomed to from John Pilger: The truth, of course, as with virtually everything Pilger writes, is quite the reverse. You hardly ever see an expert from the IEA or the ASI (or press coverage of their research and reports) on television without them being described (usually inaccurately) as "right wing" or "conservative". Pilger, on the hand, peddles his socialist propaganda and apologetics for tyranny without any "warning labels" regarding his political orientation."
  
Date: 9/26/2003 10:20:00 AM  From Authorid: 34487    I'm sorry but those of us that you were referring to, do question our government but also DO NOT believe every conspiracy theory that's out there. There's a difference between being loyal to one's country, informed and inquisitive and being the cattle that you just described.
  
Date: 9/26/2003 8:35:00 PM  From Authorid: 62289    Date: 9/23/2003 7:30:00 PM From Authorid: 34487 No offense but if you got these actual quotes online somewhere, whomever wrote them obviously doesn't use spellchecker and that weakens their credibility quite a bit for me. Can you list your resources on the location of this info, just curious?
Date: 9/23/2003 7:39:00 PM From Authorid: 34487 Just wanted to add that I in NO way believe that our military deliberately targeted civilians... and I never will believe that. I basically watched the entire war on CNN and saw no signs of that. There were however, a few missiles that missed their intended targets or hit a building thought to be Governmental which ended up being civilian. No one can expect for there to be absolutely no mistakes during a war, that's unrealistic.
Date: 9/23/2003 7:53:00 PM From Authorid: 36704 Oh yeah that really does it for me. The guy says he has footage that proves these quotes and documents to prove the invasion of Iraq was preplanned but instead of giving the supposed footage and documents to news media around the country some of whom would love to show it 24 hours a day or even putting it on the web himself he decides to just write an article about it and post it on the web instead. Watch out, I'm a believer now.
Date: 9/23/2003 8:10:00 PM From Authorid: 34487 LOL@Base....
Date: 9/23/2003 8:30:00 PM From Authorid: 36704 lol You Choose, Pilger has written a few books, done a couple of documentaries, but he's been a reporter for the UK tabloid The Mirror for twenty years. He always has a conspiracy theory. He even involves Clinton and his administration in the Iraq war saying they were part of it. "Having lived and worked in the United States, I must add that I don't want to make too much of the distinction between the Bush regime and its predecessors. I don't see a great deal of difference. Clinton kept funding Star Wars. He routinely bombed Iraq, and he kept the barbaric sanctions in place. He's really played his part. The Bush gang has taken it just a little further." He likes the Bush administration better then Clinton's though because "We're grateful to them because they've made it very clear to other people just how dangerous they are. Before, Clinton persuaded some people that he was really a civilized character and his Administration had the best interests of humanity at heart. These days we don't have to put up with that nonsense." He doesn't just have conspiracy theories against the US, he has them for other countries as well so I just laugh when I read his stuff, if nothing else it's entertaining that someone can actually be that far out there.
Date: 9/23/2003 8:37:00 PM From Authorid: 34487 So true Base, So true...
Date: 9/23/2003 9:35:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 48525 Too bad you're not as big a stickler for truth from your gov't as you are for correct spelling, You choose. I guess as long as the gov't uses correct spelling, grammar and punctuation when they lie, everything's cool. You didn't see anything on CNN that wasn't scripted and approved by the prophaganda ministers. There are such things as slander, libel and defamation of character laws. John Pilger doesn't seem to fear any lawsuits being filed against him for his findings. As far as broadcasting this, it WAS broadcast in the UK. The American media lacks the intestinal fortitude to actually report on these facts. This is more than likely due to the fact that they have been complicit from the begining, and to do so now would only draw attention to the fact that thy've been AWOL during this whole charade. It's easier to try to denounce Mr. Pilger than to accept the fact that the gov't knowingly and purposely lied to start a war of conquest-for-oil. Try doing a search on the net for PNAC (Project for a New American Century). When you find their homepage, you can see for yourselves not only the names of those involved as well as their intentions. You two might want to contact a deprogrammer, as well.
Date: 9/24/2003 6:39:00 AM From Authorid: 15228 Here’s a George W. Bush quote addressing the issue of imminent threat that you won’t find in Pilger’s comical television epic: "Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option". And now it’s not a problem.
Date: 9/24/2003 6:44:00 AM From Authorid: 15228 Oh, and here is the FULL quote from Powell in case you are interested (though probably not): Here’s the full quote from Powell: "We will always try to consult with our friends in the region so that they are not surprised and do everything we can to explain the purpose of our responses. We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions--the fact that the sanctions exist-- not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq, and these are policies that we are going to keep in place, but we are always willing to review them to make sure that they are being carried out in a way that does not affect the Iraqi people but does affect the Iraqi regime's ambitions and the ability to acquire weapons of mass destruction, and we had a good conversation on this issue"....Amazing what a little creative editing will do to make someones point, eh?
Date: 9/24/2003 6:52:00 AM From Authorid: 15228 U.S. Rep. Jim Marshall (D-Ga.), a Vietnam combat veteran, said: "On Sept. 14, I flew from Baghdad to Kuwait with Sgt. Trevor A. Blumberg from Dearborn, Mich. He was in a body bag. He'd been ambushed and killed that afternoon. Sitting in the cargo bay of a C 130E, I found myself wondering whether the news media were somehow complicit in his death". Garbage like this article is empowering terrorists in Iraq....as far as I'm concerned you people can sit and whine all day when our service members are in harms way...don't worry you are safe and sound and can disect every single little sentence ever uttered about Iraq. Why not go back and find out what Clinton said about Iraq????????? He said EXACTLY the same thing about Iraq being a threat. But don't let that stop anyone from saying this was a trumped up war from the beginning.
Date: 9/24/2003 7:37:00 AM From Authorid: 61897 I didn't even have to finish reading this article, this Pilger guy sounds delusional. You Choose-it's not that he mispelled, that's how the words are written in the UK-"programme, neighbours, etc. etc.....".
Date: 9/24/2003 7:58:00 AM From Authorid: 6358 I agree with Base. In addition, what good is dredging it up going to accomplish? It's not going to take back the war or everything that happened so I have no comments regarding any of this.
Date: 9/24/2003 8:45:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 48525 How about holding gov't officials accountable, Kewl Girl? Sheeple never cease to amaze me
Date: 9/24/2003 8:54:00 AM From Authorid: 15228 From an article about the Huton inquiry...not many people know that Kelly was a suporter of the war: The BBC reporter Andrew Gilligan was left isolated at the Hutton inquiry yesterday when he was forced to retract key elements of his controversial Today programme report while the corporation's head of news denounced his journalistic standards. In tough cross-examination lasting 2 hours, Gilligan said he had made a "slip of the tongue" when he said Downing Street inserted a claim in the September dossier that Iraq could launch weapons of mass destruction within 45 minutes, knowing it was wrong. He also conceded it was a mistake, in one of his broadcasts, to describe the weapons expert David Kelly as an "intelligence service source". And he admitted failing to correct the Today presenter John Humphrys for making the same error. Richard Sambrook, the BBC's director of news, said Gilligan failed to appreciate the "nuances and subtleties" of broadcast journalism, casting his reports in "primary colours" rather than shades of grey. Both admitted it was a serious error of judgment for Gilligan to email members of the foreign affairs committee (FAC), suggesting questions they might ask of Dr Kelly and effectively outing him as the source for reports by the BBC Newsnight journalist Susan Watts. Dr Kelly's body was found three days after appearing before the FAC, apparently after taking his own life, leading to the setting up of Lord Hutton's inquiry.
Date: 9/24/2003 8:56:00 AM From Authorid: 15228 Typical liberal. Call people names when you disagree. You can't even be honest enough to do full research but instead rely on half truths, half quotes and not the full story.
Date: 9/24/2003 9:03:00 AM From Authorid: 2030 I don't think I'll be swayed much by a "cut and paste" article from the UK version of the National Inquirer. I suppose it was right there between the articles on crop circles and the "Bat Boy".
Date: 9/24/2003 11:08:00 AM From Authorid: 36704 Conspiracy theories are as old as time, they have and always will exist. It wasn't until the second half of the twentieth century that businesses saw the money that could be made from them. Since the assisination of JFK media has exploited the conspiracy market. From TV shows, to movies, newspapers, books, magazines and now the web. The conspiracy theory industry generates billions of dollars a year in revenues. They rely on peoples' lack of knowledge to blur the lines between fact and fiction. They also rely on the fact that most people who fall in line with one conspiracy theory will fall for many more. They know the majority will not try to verify the facts because conspiracy theories are self serving and meet a deep emotional need in many people. Conspiracy books fly off shelves, tv shows and movies about conspiracies are also big sellers. People seek drama, they have an inherent need for it, to think that there's something more then meets the eye. When controversial articles are printed in newspapers and magazines they sell more copies. Most articles include a website where you can buy the person's book or at least the name of a book the author of the article has written, most websites also promote the author's works. Some people even rely on conspiracy theories to solicit donations from people, people who are duped out of millions of dollars a year for groups and causes that don't exist. Democrats and Republicans both exploit conspiracy theories not because they believe it but to try to get votes. Conspiracy theories are good for the economy and good for big business, and depending on the theory good for a political party.
Date: 9/24/2003 3:18:00 PM From Authorid: 13729 Heres 2 facts for everybody: In '98 everyone agreed, the UN, the US and the UK, that Iraq was 90 percent dis-armed of weapons.....Now all of a sudden they can have a missile pointed at us in 45 minutes?..(Britian).....Also dont question wheather or not we bomb indiscrimenently..... After the Gulf War, Bush Sr, Cheney, Quayle, Powell, and Schwartskoph amoung others were all found guilty of War Crimes by The International War Crimes Tribunal, and this kind of bombing was one of the many things they were found guilty of ....do some research, or read my post about War Crimes, I already did the research......To whoever said " I basically watched the entire war on CNN and saw no signs of that"....What a ridiculous statement!......
Date: 9/24/2003 41:00 PM From Authorid: 36704 Ritzbe, the US was never found guilty by any credible international court. Just like the media counts on you to not verify the facts you did exactly that. You obviously did no research or I don't think you would have made a fool of yourself by making a post on it. The US and all of the people you mentioned were never taken to any real international court. Ramsey Clark started the CITIZEN's International Tribunal Court. It is not a recognized legal system. The final hearing for the case against Bush and the rest was held at Martin Luther King, Jr, High School in New York, get a grip, real trials are held in these neat little places called courts. The UN's first tribunals for Rwanda and Yugoslavia led to the formation of the International Criminal Court here's the link to the real international court http://www.un.org/law/icc/ What? No Ramsey Clark on there. Keep spreading the conspiracy theories you're making someone a lot of money with your free advertisement.
Date: 9/24/2003 68:00 PM From Authorid: 34487 Chi-Girl, thanks for pointing that out. I didn't know he was from the UK. It still doesn't change the fact that this guy has no credibility though, as far as I'm concerned.
Date: 9/24/2003 6:43:00 PM From Authorid: 34487 I will say... It was VERY late when I read this, so I was about half awake. I should've made the connection between the quotes being from Blair, their Prime Minister and how some words were spelled. I will admit, that I had no idea who Pilger was though, before this post. Now that I know he's been a UK tabloid reporter for 20 yrs, that pretty much verifies his lack of reliability, in my opinion.
Date: 9/25/2003 12:51:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 48525 "Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions...?" Well, Dubya did in March of this year, just before he invaded Iraq. there seems to be a common cry of "credibility" in these replies about Mr. Pilger's findings, something I find both amusing and disgusting at the same time...the US gov't has ZERO credibility, every bogus claim they've made has been shown to be just that, bogus and flat out lies, and yet there are those of you who still cling desperately to those lies, shouting down the "credibility" of any who have fact and verification, never questioning their own gov't's story or motives. There's a serious lack of credibility, and I'll leave you with a clsoing thought: Our Founding Fathers knew the dangers of a nation who does not question and hold acountable their gov't leaders. They imparted us, the American public with the privilage of freedom, but also the immense task of "policing" the gov't. A good number of us "patriotic Americans" have fallen down on the job, refusing to excersise not only our freedom to question the gov't, but our responsibility to do so as well. Good ol' Ben Franklin said "Those who would sacrefice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security." The Founding Fathers must be spinning in their graves right now.
Date: 9/25/2003 6:05:00 PM From Authorid: 36704 In September 1989, two British citizens went to Indochina to do some field research. A year later, Anthony De Normann and Christopher MacKenzie were shocked to learn that their pictures were being shown in a television program on Cambodia. In July 1991, they sued Pilger and the television station which aired the film for libel. Pilger's lawyer knew that his case was thin. Pilger was persuaded to quickly settle out of court for a financial sum that both sides agreed would not be publicly disclosed. This case reveals much about John Pilger and his brand of journalism. Pilger is now being sued, again for libel, by a British member of Parliament, Rupert Allason, whom Pilger falsely accused of complicity in peddling intelligence information in the case surrounding the death by hanging of a British journalist in Iraq. In November 1992 a strong complaint, this time from the United Nations Border Relief Operation (UNBRO), was also lodged against Pilger to the Broadcasting Complaints Commission pertaining to Pilger's allegation that United Nations logistical facilities in Cambodia were being secretly rented to the Khmer Rouge as a munitions warehouse. To understand Pilger, one must fathom the depth of his contempt for government. In Pilger's world, governments are the source of all evil. His pen is a sword not to defend a cause but to bleed governments. He revels in saying "I have made enemies in Southeast Asia". Hence, it is controversy making rather than fact-finding that is the hallmark of Pilger's journalism. Hype takes a premium over accuracy; impact over balance. The astonishing thing about Pilger is really not the message, which is an old song in a flashy jukebox, but the fact that some uninformed or semi-informed circles are taking his propositions as truth. When Pilger charged UNBRO of commercial complicity with the Khmer Rouge, he conveniently attributed the information to "our sources" and left it at that. The Broadcasting Complaints Commission, after thoroughly examining the case, later stated that "The Commission are not persuaded that the program makers had sufficient - or indeed any evidence of UNBRO's involvement" in property dealings with the Khmer Rouge. What motivates Pilger? "That's really beyond me," Rupert Allason said. Some may point to an insatiable craving for personal fame. Which Pilger certainly has done a good job at. De Normann, however, is more straightforward: "Money. He simply loves money". Whatever the answer, what captured my attention was a curious sentence at the very end of what was supposed to be a news column: "Pilger's account is contained in _Distant Voices_, 7.99 pounds sterling."
Date: 9/25/2003 6:09:00 PM From Authorid: 36704 "The customary rational socialist discourse that we have become so accustomed to from John Pilger: The truth, of course, as with virtually everything Pilger writes, is quite the reverse. You hardly ever see an expert from the IEA or the ASI (or press coverage of their research and reports) on television without them being described (usually inaccurately) as "right wing" or "conservative". Pilger, on the hand, peddles his socialist propaganda and apologetics for tyranny without any "warning labels" regarding his political orientation."
Date: 9/26/2003 100:00 AM From Authorid: 34487 I'm sorry but those of us that you were referring to, do question our government but also DO NOT believe every conspiracy theory that's out there. There's a difference between being loyal to one's country, informed and inquisitive and being the cattle that you just described.
  
Date: 9/26/2003 8:57:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    Ummmm, what's that all about?  

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