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Date: 7/20/2003 11:33:00 PM From Authorid: 57404 Well, I am not sure, I have never been "Slain in the Spirit" before. However, not to long ago, I watched a thing on tv about Benny Hinn. How a woman who was dying of cancer went up too him and felt she had been healed, only to wait it out believing God had healed her. A few weeks or months later she died of cancer. She was never healed. And Benny Hinn didn't want to talk about it. They also showed how they used props too.. like a number of wheelchairs in front to make it look like they healed a bunch of people, only to find out that a few people had been wheeled up and were perfectly capable of walking on their own. The people who were brought in, laying in hospital beds because they were truely sick and dying they showed where they were put.. way back in the audience. These people were never spoken too, or the laying of hands was never performed on these people. They were placed out of the view of the camera's. Not to mention a ton of other stuff they showed about Benny Hinn. I lost any respect I might have had for him. It may be possible that the Slaying of the spirit is real. But like everything else, unless I experience it first hand, I won't believe it. :-)I think it is more of a group thing. The energy in the room and the want for something wonderful to happen. God Bless |
Date: 7/21/2003 12:24:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15070 thank you for your excellent answer. I had before been at services with people "speaking in tongues", and wailing about, some vomiting....*shiver*. Thinking back, it was really scary. |
Date: 7/21/2003 1:01:00 AM From Authorid: 3125 LSG..There is no place in God's Word where this teaching nor practice can be found. Christians are said to have 'slain the old ways of sinfulness' by putting on the righteousness of the Spirit. Their old sinful ways are destroyed as long as they remain in God's righteousness. People as the ones you have mentioned gives Christianity such a bad name. It is a shame what some will do in the name of God. |
Date: 7/21/2003 9:52:00 AM
From Authorid: 27950
Q. What biblical basis exists for being ‘slain in the spirit' ('going out under the power')? Some ministers lay hands on people and they fall to the ground? Genesis 15:12 "...A DEEP SLEEP FELL upon Abram... And God said to Abram..." Genesis 17:1, 3 "The Lord appeared to Abraham... and Abraham FELL ON HIS FACE, and God talked with him..." 2 Chronicles 5:13, 14 "... then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord; so that the priests COULD NOT STAND to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God." Daniel 8:17 "And it came about when I, Daniel, had seen the vision... I heard the voice... So he came near... I was frightened and FELL ON MY FACE... Now while he was talking with me, I sank into a deep sleep with MY FACE TO THE GROUND..." Daniel 10, 9 "So I was left ALONE and saw this great vision; yet no strength was left in me, for my natural color turned to a deathly pallor, and I retained no strength. But I heard the sound of his words; and... I fell into a deep sleep ON MY FACE, with MY FACE TO THE GROUND." Ezekiel 18 "...the likeness of the glory of the Lord. When I saw it, I FELL FACEDOWN, and I heard the voice of one speaking." Ezekiel 32, 23 "The hand of the Lord was upon me there, and he said to me, '...I will speak to you.' ...And the glory of the Lord was standing there..., and I FELL FACEDOWN." Ezekiel 43:1-7, esp. 3 "...behold, the glory of the God of Israel... His voice... and the earth shone with his glory... like the vision which I saw by the river Chebar; and I FELL ON MY FACE..." Ezekiel 44:4, 5 "...behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord, and I FELL ON MY FACE. And the Lord said to me..." Revelation 1:17 "When I saw him, I FELL AT HIS FEET AS THOUGH DEAD.... [Note: This is probably the source of the phrase 'slain in the spirit.'] Close examination of the FEW times in Scripture (see table) in which this phenomenon occurred, indicate: 1) It was not a sought-after experience. (Today many go forward after a meeting for the very purpose of being slain; the altar call is often even presented as such.) 2) It was not a common experience. (Today many stand in line – expecting to fall.) It occurred only rarely, i.e, when an individual saw the glory of God. 3) No human administered/imparted it. (It was not received during a "laying on of hands" session by anyone!) 4) The individual FELL ON HIS FACE – not fell backwards. (There were no "catchers"!) 5) The experience occurred when the person was ALONE with God – not in front of a group of people. 6) When they were "down" (or "out", they received either visions of the last days, prophecies, or SAW GOD God face to face. *****KL***** |
Date: 7/21/2003 12:04:00 PM From Authorid: 16671 CherokeeWolf, I dont know anything about what benny hinn may or may not have did. I know I'm not fond of alot of his teaching. But you said ""I think it is more of a group thing. The energy in the room and the want for something wonderful to happen" and while many times it does happen because God tells us where two or more are gathered together in my name I'm in the midst of them, It has also happened to me, when alone and praying. Being slain in the spirit is when the power of God around you is so strong that it effects you like that. I'll tell you I have never felt such a blessing and communion with God so much in my life. The experience is wonderful. I didnt believe that this stuff happened until it happened to me. So just wanted to let you know that it can also be a private thing. Which is what I prefer. |
Date: 7/21/2003 12:06:00 PM From Authorid: 16671 rusure, this is one thing that I do disagree on you with. I know that some churches preach that this is not of God but it is biblically sound. Just as some churches preach that healing is not for today. Or casting out demons, and so many other things they say died with the prophets, but God tells us there are still prophets today, and the things that He gave to them, he has given to us. |
Date: 7/21/2003 1:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
The reference in Chronicles (2 Chronicles 5:14) is about when the Ark was brought to the completed Temple. During the service, right before Solomon spoke, "the Lord's house was filled with a cloud, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud". The Acts reference (Acts 9:4-8) is to Paul's Damascus Road experience, where Saul was blinded (v.8) by light from heaven (v.3) and fell to the ground The Revelations reference (Revelations 1:17 John fell at His feet "like a dead man". If we are to find a Biblical foundation for the manifestations of the Holy Spirit, we must understand that their nature is almost always physical and represents the physical presence of the Holy Spirit. Abram "feel into a deep sleep, "King Saul "lay down naked all that day and all that night," the prophet Ezekiel "fell on his face," Saul of Tarsus "feel to the earth and heard a voice..., Certain theologians, pastors, and Christians believe that the gifts of the Spirit and manifestations appeared only in the first generation church. They even go so far as to say the gifts and manifestations were instrumental in the growth of the early church. However, they stop short of accepting gifts and manifestations in today’s church. There is irony in this reaction.There are many who witness the manifestation and gifts of the Holy Spirit and yet reject them as being "not of God." An individual’s desire to exercise the gifts of the Spirit deposited in their life or one’s yielding to a manifestation of the Holy Spirit is as personal a decision as praying the prayer of faith. For many, the Christian walk is simply one of accepting Christ as Savior. For others, living only at that level is unacceptable, They realize there is more. The issue for them is how they can live and practice their faith on a daily basis and at a more personal and interactive level with the Holy Spirit. For them it is the realization that when Paul states in Ephesians 30 that God is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, it is according to the power that worketh in us. In my opinion, the true revival and renewal can only take place when Christians are willing to abandon their traditional notions of "appropriate behavior" and allow the power to work in us. Even the term "appropriate behavior" implies pride and sets a standard for judgment and condescension. |
Date: 7/21/2003 1:25:00 PM From Authorid: 16671 One thing also LSG, while I know that being slain in the spirit is a real thing, there are also many people in many churches, that DO it all out of emotion, I mean they do things that just are not right, such as the vomiting? There are lots of seekers of attention out there, and it seems that even some of the church people are trying to SHOW that GEE, they must be spiritual, more so then the other guy cause Look how many times I've gone out in the spirit. That kind of behavior is just plain wrong as far as I'm concerned. |
Date: 7/21/2003 5:25:00 PM From Authorid: 59876 i pretty much believe as rusure does on this subject. i was just curious firstborn, ( and i mean no disrespect, i just want to know) how does one know that a vomiter is putting on an act? vomiting at will isn't that common. could it be emotional turbulence or perhaps one person's personal manifestation of the spirit? because when people that are not believers or have a different belief system study the bible, quite often they are shocked at some of the things written because of violence, or because they see god as cruel, or unusual in his methods, and so on. anyway, as i said, just curious. personally i don't disbelieve that people brought together under such circumstances might be feeling a powerful emotional high, but i don't believe they are being slain in the spirit or that it is scripturally acurate. same with speaking in tounges. i mean no offense to anyone, only stating my position. |
Date: 7/21/2003 5:26:00 PM From Authorid: 59876 and, in addition to what i said above, i do believe there are people that would do it for attention. i know plenty of people like that already not necessarily in regards to religion lol. |
Date: 7/21/2003 9:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Doheney, the only time I have seen someone vomit was when a demon was cast out of them. This happens often. Vomiting at will is very common, look at all the people with bulmia *sp* and those with anorexia, they are all binge and pukers. God tells us that the spirit of the Lord will not send confusion, and if you or when you do feel the presense of the lord in this manner you will see what I'm talking about. Sure, It COULD happen because of emotional stuff in that person, but I've not seen it in the 15 years or so that I've been born again. I've seen them have total peace, I've seen and even had happen to me, so much joy that laughter just came out because of the joy. LSG was talking about people in church doing this, I doubt her word on this, as I"VE never heard of it from anyone at anytime concerning the presense of God. Most people that are in the church setting dont feel that God is cruel, and even if they did, all they would feel is peace. In the old testament, ,yes some of them got scared at the presence of God because of the supernatualness of it all. But nowhere did I read in the bible that they vomitted. I cant make you believe in being slain in the spirit. I've only had it happen a couple of times in all the years that I've been born again and I often wonder about those that have it happen so many times in a night and so on. As I said, many of them are playing a game. As far as speaking in tounges, I do that to and it is scriptual. Hey I didnt believe in any of it either, until I gave my heart to the lord, believed that He died for my sins. I cant convince you or anyone and I'm not going to try. To me its a blessing from God. ""1Cor:14:39: Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 1Cor:14:40: Let all things be done decently and in order."" Oh and I dont think that vomitting is in line with the part here that says, IN order. Nice to see you hon. |
Date: 7/22/2003 9:34:00 AM From Authorid: 47162 I think it can be all of the above. I was raised as a Pentecostal and this stuff was as familiar as milk is to a dairy farmer. I've seen grown adults standing, and then fall over backwards onto the floor, without any catchers. They did not get hurt in anyway. In those cases, you have to think there is something to it. I mean here you have people just standing there praying, no one is touching them, no one behind to catch them, then they fall on the floor backwards and don't get hurt or bruised. That's pretty supernatural to me. On the other hand there can be a sense of "group think" with this activity. There maybe social pressure to be an object of this falling out. So as people feel pressured to fall out, they may just fake as they fall back into someone's arms. This could also be a form of hypnosis. The human mind can be trained to react in a certain way to certain things. When I see a snake I tend to cringe, just out of reflex. It's possible when people are being prayed over, they get so used to the falling thing, that their mind just relfexes/reacts to the occasion and they black out or fall back. It's also possible this is demonic activity. I think we need to look past the manifestation and look at the fruit of it. If it makes people recognize that Jesus is Lord or if it makes them change their life to live for God, then how can it be a bad thing? On the other hand if the fruit of it is to only fit into the group, or exalt your ego, then it's no good. |
Date: 7/22/2003 9:33:00 PM From Authorid: 16671 R1 for a change I agree with you whole heartly. |
Date: 7/22/2003 11:31:00 PM From Authorid: 47162 first born..see what the fruits of trying to be unbiased and fair can yield?:P eventually it gets agreement from even a far right winger like you....jk |
Date: 7/23/2003 12:09:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15070 tonight I was watching a show on the Sci-Fi channel. They were featuring old films from the 1950's? I think showing a VooDoo priest under possession from a spirit. A "God". Then they showed some snake-handlers from West Virginia. The man narrating, (Jay Wallace I think?) Said the similarities were "speaking in tongues", immunity to pain, violent jerking", ect. Now, I am not saying people cannot have deep religious experiences. I have. But, I went to one service that scared me silly. And, this was AS a Christian! #57404-I am not being mean, but I do not like, or trust Benny Hinn. Anyone who claims to travel back & forth to Heaven....kinda goofy, you know? |
Date: 7/23/2003 6:26:00 AM From Authorid: 59876 my point was firstborn is that other than knowing about yourself, there is no way to know what others or experiencing or how it may manifest. i do not for once second beleve people are being slain in the spirit and vomiting lol. as for who experiences what, i have given my heart to the lord and never at any time have i personally experienced such as this. i have attended a few revivals though at my uncle's church though and have seen people experiencing being slain in the spirit. the atmosphere was extremely emotionally charged with people running up and down in the aisles waving banners, and falling all over the place in their tracks. it was interesting. unfortunately we had to leave early as my naughty daughter and her friend laughed so hard that my daughter peed on the newly upolstered pew. (cringe) tell me though, why would people that had accepted the lord not be witness to this phenomenea themselves in these types of situations? at that time i and those who went with me (other than naughty daughter lol) were much less decisive about what was scriptural and what was not. |
Date: 7/23/2003 6:31:00 AM From Authorid: 59876 cherokee wolf, a friend and i discussed the situation of people that have died anyway after being healed by benny hinn and her argument was that it was no lie because he gave them the ultimate healing by sending them home to the lord. on this we disagreed. |
Date: 7/23/2003 8:03:00 AM From Authorid: 16671 R1 LOL |
Date: 7/23/2003 8:03:00 AM From Authorid: 16671 LSG, some people have had strange things and scary things happen in some of the churches. Strange because they dont understand what is going on, OR the people involved are doing things just not biblical. Benny Hinn does turn lots of people toward the Lord Jesus, so I won't judge him in that area, I dont care for some of the other things that happen with the man, but its not up to me to Judge him or his ministry, God will take care of it. I know that I've seen many ministers that when they go off into error, that suddenly you dont hear from them anymore as God has a way of exposing them for what they are. Take Jim Baker for example. Sure he brought lots of people to the Lord, but then I'm sure many more , instead of looking to Jesus, looked to jim baker and fell when he did. That is why we are to look to Jesus, not man. As man seems to fail one ever time. |
Date: 7/23/2003 8:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Doheney, No one never knows how things may manifest, but if things dont line up with what God has said, then its not of Him. You have to remember that not all churches believe in being filled with the Holy Spriit of God, which in its self is a different thing that being born again. Its a seperate experience. Take this for example :::Lk:11:13: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?'' and then this, ""Acts:15: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: Acts:16: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Acts:17: Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."" See, they had already been born again by being baptized in the name of Jesus, and asking Him into their hearts^^^^^^Then God goes on to say,Acts:1: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: "" So its a seperate experience and the bible tells us that we recieve the gift of tongues, AFTER recieving the Holy Spirit. So many churchs believe that this stuff went out with the apostles and refuse to recieve what God has so freely given. Thats why this stuff does not happen in their churches as the Holy spirit is not with them there. How can he be, they dont believe. I'm not going to condemn those that run around in the church, as David danced before the Lord, as he was so filled with Joy, whom knows what another person will do when they are filled with joy? But one has to be carefull in some of these churches as some have admitted that they JUST put on because it shows they are spiritual. If God is doing it thats one thing, but to do things like this in the flesh and pretend God is doing it is another. Not saying that all are pretending, as that would be false. You should look on the web and search for the Azusa street revial, its awesome. However as I said in all my years in this kind of charasmatic churches, i've never seen anyone that has been filled with the presense of God throw UP unless a demon was leaving them. Lots of people dont believe that demons can oppress and possess but they can. LOL LOL about your daughter , LOL I wont put God in a box about what HE will do or what he can do, ,but we are to judge these things not only by His word, but by the Holy Spirit of God within us that will show us where error is. |
Date: 7/24/2003 7:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 62243
alrighty - this won't be very long: Now i've been to many countries and seen this exact same thing, where ministers may just press their hand so hard against your head that you HAVE to fall, or they might just push you down! I've seen ministers and people where this is really all they are looking for when they go to a service! However, I KNOW that being "SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT" is a real thing. I'll explain: remember in the book of Daniel, when the angel came to him and he fell on the ground and couldn't move? Remember in the book of John, when Jesus said "I am He" to the men that had come to crucify him, they all fell down on the ground. Also - the book of Acts, where Paul falls off his ride on the way to Damascus? Sometimes, when the supernatural comes in contact with the natural, the natural gives way. This is seen in the above three examples from the bible and in being "slain in the spirit." I DO believe that some people act it out - but this is not necessary. But keep in mind i've seen a young man fly many feet back after being TOUCHED on the belly (and he didn't jump back - it was real). What had was the boy had been filled with the holy spirit of God, and the power that comes with it. In conclusion, being "slain in the spirit" is real - when it's real (only when someone cannot physically stand). So don't mind actors that think that they are responsible in someway other that mearly "the laying on of hands" (2 timothy) and feel it necessary to help God along by using physical force. Don't let them keep you from experiencing God's holy spirit. |
Date: 7/24/2003 9:45:00 PM From Authorid: 24924 Religious QUACKERY; boastful scams and shams. It is: SHOW BIZ! Benny Hinn won't allow anyone to bring camera's or recording devices to his what I call Circus "side shows". He isn't about to get busted like that one preacher "Popoff"? who was busted for having planted persons in his audience to electronically relay information about people to him, which he would then proclaim it came from "God". I've seen some of the most dispicable people (out of church) swoon, sway, speak gibberish and fall to the ground when they were in the presence of an audience, or someone they wished to impress. Also, I'd like to point out that MOST ALL of the believers in such silliness, are those who are poor, and with little or no education; thus they can very easily be mislead, brainwashed and scammed by the fraudulent religious $$$$scammers$$$. |
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