Date: 6/20/2003 8:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 45630
Now call me ignorant but maybe they have to be able to help out with theoretical looks at this dort of thing. Also it is easier to avoid incrimination if everyone is the same religion. I'm not saying this is acceptable but think about it if every professor is teaching from the same wavelength the guidelines and university focus came be made easier!  |
Date: 6/20/2003 8:08:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
Understandable, but do our laws about discrimation in the work force allow for these things?  |
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Date: 6/20/2003 8:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 45630
I suppose its the same with men not being able to work at some womens clothing stores. Many female customers are not comfortable asking a man for advice on a particular garment. |
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Date: 6/20/2003 8:21:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
Yeah, but women's clothing stores can't not hire a man because of his gender. |
Date: 6/20/2003 8:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
It clearly states that it is a Christian college, so why in the world would a non Christian desire employment at such a place? I see no wrong done because some Christians got together and formed a Christian college and require that anyone who teaches there must be one who teaches Christianity.  |
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Date: 6/20/2003 8:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
Sorry Kurt, I am afraid I am going to have to leave you. I have to get ready to go to a Harry Potter Release Part..lol. Thanks for you replies...I always enjoy discussions with you. :-) |
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Date: 6/20/2003 8:33:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
Rusure, the job clearly states that is for a Professor of British Literature of the 1800s...this is not teaching Christianity, it's teaching literature. Now, what I was asking is...is this in violation of our laws? |
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Date: 6/20/2003 9:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
THG..You stated it was a listing for a 'Christian College' in California. If a Christian college requires that one MUST be an evangelical Christian, then I do not see a problem. Why wouldn't a Christian college have the right to exist and to have special requirements? And again..Why would anyone who is not a Christian seek employment at a Christian college? |
Date: 6/20/2003 9:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 3321
They are allowed to require this because the vested interest of the University is a Christian education, and it is centered around the religion. If a person is not of that religion or doesn't believe that it is difficult to really give any credibility to that professor as far as their spiritual life goes. It is a private university with a religious focus. Just compare it to a Catholic school-do you see nuns who aren't Catholic teaching at Catholic schools? Would a Christian teach at a Wiccan or Pagan college? Its not appropriate for their standards.  |
Date: 6/20/2003 10:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
He has to be Christian otherwise he'd be teaching those Christians books that no decent Christian should be reading. Those books that they burn at their rituals. They couldn't teach Lolita or Lady Chatterly's Lover, even it it was written by a well respected author and now classic literature. Not only has he to be Christian, but he has to be EVANGELICAL Christian... meaning fundamentalist. They still cover piano legs don't they.  |
Date: 6/20/2003 10:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Nekkid piano legs is a sin? Koolade, maybe that is in the job description of the position: "Must be a Christian AND required to insure that all piano legs are covered".   |
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Date: 6/20/2003 10:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
LOL [snort] Yeah m'dear git those pianna legs covered. We can't have them nekkid now can we? |
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Date: 6/20/2003 11:38:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
Ok, Rusure, you are still not understanding whay I asked...I am not asking if it is right or wrong in your opinion (although I appreciate what you think) I am asking if it is in violation of current US laws. Persephone, I have seen non-Catholics teaching at Catholic schools...but they are restricted on what they can teach. Koolade, a basic restricted reading list or requiring the Prof to have reading material approved would keep he from teaching undesired material. |
Date: 6/20/2003 11:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
well it's a PRIVATE school... and unforunately with the teachings are tied into religion... the schooling is based in religion and the closely tied in with it.. unfortunately i think they can technically ask for those requirements... it's sort of these "expected" things... like a flight attendant has to meet a certian height and weight requirements and a you would not have a large person working in the gap...  |
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Date: 6/20/2003 11:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
i've been seeing alot of teaching jobs in the area around here in the paper recently... but i don't think you guys want to uproot yourself |
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Date: 6/21/2003 12:57:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
Thanks Midnightly, it will be a while before we start the real job hunt...he is still working on his doctorate. We just browse the available positions from time to time to see how the markey is. When the time comes, we will have to go anywhere he can get a job. That's they way it works with Profs. lol. |
Date: 6/21/2003 7:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 46515
I think they have every right as a Christian college to set thier own standards. If a person is against the teachings of Christianity, they need not apply.  |
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Date: 6/21/2003 9:45:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
It's interesting that so many of you assume that just because someone doesn't have the same exact beliefs as the school, that they would teach against it... |
Date: 6/21/2003 9:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
TarHeel, It's the old "If you're not with us, you're against us" mindset. Get used to it.  |
Date: 6/21/2003 10:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 35720
I don't think they legally CAN say you "have" to be Christian in order to teach there. Most people applying for the job would probably BE Christian because it's a Christian SCHOOL, but I don't see how they get off saying you MUST be Christian to apply.  |
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Date: 6/21/2003 10:12:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
Thinker, I know..it's the same mindset that has started many a religious war....lol |
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Date: 6/21/2003 10:17:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
Thank you Rika, That's what I was trying to ask everyone. I really don't think a non-Christian would want to teach there either, but I thought this would make for a good discussion. |
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Date: 6/21/2003 10:22:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
My point was, how can private schools require this, but not private companies? |
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Date: 6/21/2003 11:13:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
You might want to look up the 1993 Supreme Court's rejection of the RFTA (Religious Freedom Restoration Act), which had tried to legislate "special rights" for religious groups, private religious schools and believers and had one set of laws for them and another for private individuals, businesses, public sectors/secular society and non-believers; on selective, discriminatory basis. IF the Christian college in question receives FEDERAL funding; then yes, they would be in violation and discriminatory in requiring that a person be a Christian in order to be hired as an employee. |
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Date: 6/21/2003 11:23:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
Ok, Thinker, that makes sense. I will check that out. Thanks for adding to this discussion. |
Date: 6/21/2003 11:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 28946
Hon, I am not really sure about how privately run schools are able to be exempt from the Federal guidelines but they are. If certain requirements are a part of the job package then that is what exempts the school teaching position. Same is true with a doctors office not being handicapped accessible. They are exempt from having accessability if they don't except federal or state insurance monies. Doesn't seem right but there are loop-holes in almost everything.  |
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Date: 6/21/2003 2:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
THG..I clearly understand what you are asking. You stated, we came across one listing for a 'Christian' College in California. The listing was for an Associate Professor in English focusing on British literature of the 1800s. 'the requirements' for this position was that the applicant 'MUST be' an evangelical Christian. In this Christian college it is required that in order to be a teacher one must hold to evangelical principles or be in agreement with the Christian gospel. If one does not agree with the Christian doctrine in a Christian school, then the Christian school has the legal right to turn the person away if he did not met this requirement. Really, What if this teacher was an atheist? Would this teacher be willing to go against his beliefs in evolution, or whatever, and teach a belief in creationism in a Christian college? I don't think so! Your question sort of reminds me of a woman who came into a church building and demanded that she be made an elder on the grounds that she has several degrees in theology and it is her right. One of the requirements of the church was that in order to apply for the position was that the person must be a married male. Naturally this woman lost the case in court. She did not met their requirements. To make a long story short, this woman was told to apply for the position of an elder in a religious organization which has no such requirements. You also stated "An English Professor's religious beliefs would not interfere with their duties as a teacher." His beliefs could very well interfere with his duties. Suppose he was an atheist? Suppose while teaching British literature of the 1800s, a discussion comes up regarding poets like Wordsworth and Byron and this discussion turns into one regarding the religious beliefs of these poets? A student then ask the atheist Professor,"What are your views as to what these poets believed?" An atheist Professor would not be able to teach from a Christian's point of view. |
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Date: 6/21/2003 3:22:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 53689
Ok, first of all, an ENGLISH professor wouldn't be teaching evolution or the creation myth. Secondly, any good Prof would not push their personal beliefs on the students. The reason I said you did not understand my question was because I was not asking you what you opinion of it is...I was asking if it was illegal. These are two very different things. |
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Date: 6/21/2003 7:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 3321
Ok, what I said probably didn't come out correctly-it IS legal. It is NOT a violation of civil liberties because the school has an interest in using that policy. |
