Date: 6/13/2003 11:00:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
The Hippocratic oath is what doctors are supposed to live by. That being the case, anyone needing treatment should recieve it.  |
Date: 6/13/2003 11:10:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62060
the hippocratic oath has been made a mockery of many times re. passive euthanasia, etc... i dont think you can quote that as being entirely black and white...(if u understand what im saying)  |
Date: 6/13/2003 11:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 53284
In principal I agree with Warrior Spirit but in practice, there is not enough money to fund all health care options. For instance, I think that people who have damaged their own organs through drug abuse should be lower on a transplant list than someone who wasn't a drug/alchol user. I also think that taxes on cigarretts and alchol should reflect the cost to the health care system and the tax money should go to cover the costs associated with the respective health related problems from drinking and smoking.  |
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Date: 6/13/2003 11:16:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62060
exactly |
Date: 6/13/2003 11:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 36704
Smokers pay for their health care and more with the taxes on their cigarettes. Alcohol also has a tax to help defer some of the costs. The biggest burder on the health care industry is overweight people. Type II diabetes caused by being overweight is becoming an epidemic and costs billions of dollars a year. Being overweight also leads to heart problems, is associated with a higher risk of some cancers, respiratory problems(asthma), and the list goes on and on. I think overweight people should have to help pay for their burden on the health care industry, but I would never deny them the right to be treated.  |
Date: 6/13/2003 11:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 51027
i tryed to kill myself quite a few times i was lost i didint kno what i wanted out of life i use to slash my wrists evreynight put my head through mirriors try to hang myself and they SAVED my life evreytime and now im over all that cause i finnaly found myself and if they did not help me i would be dead so think about it in my point of view  |
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Date: 6/13/2003 11:31:00 AM
From Authorid: 53284
I recently read that the tax on a pack of cigarretts would have to be over $5 to pay for smoking related illness. So no they do not pay enough to cover the cost of smoking. I read another article that said if everyone in the US gave up smoking today that the Social Security system would be bankrupt do the the increased health and longitivity of the population. So I guess I should thank the smokers for leaving SS for the rest of us when they check out early. |
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Date: 6/13/2003 11:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 36704
I've read both sides that say that they do and they don't but their seems to be more evidence that smokers pay for their health care and a lot of other things like social security. I don't smoke either, so thanks smokers. Here's an interesting article http://www.azcentral.com/health/news/articles/0521obesitycost-CR.html |
Date: 6/13/2003 2:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 35720
James, that really has nothing to do with the post.  |
Date: 6/13/2003 2:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
Thank you Base. Yes...in most countries Smokers are taxed at a rate that actually generates MORE revenue from their habit than they 'on average' cost the Health System. I say again MORE revenue, then they COST the Health System. Actually...the highest group of Health Costs with least 'put in' to cover the cost are in fact SPORTS PEOPLE...yes...those nice healthy joggers who slip over and injure themselves...the wieghtlifter who pulls a muscle...the Football player who dislocates something...the gymnist who sprains something. So how about talk about those Sports People...those fitness fanatics that KNOW THE RISKS but DO NOT CARE *snicker* Peace,  |
Date: 6/13/2003 4:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
It IS unfair, but how would you discern who is doing it deliberately, and who could not help themselves? That is the biggest challenge here that I see. How could you absolutely tell, since all of them would be saying they "couldn't help it" if they become seriously ill and need treatment?  |
Date: 6/13/2003 9:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 37900
This is an interesting post. How far would a society go once it was on this path? Would drivers who didn't wear seatbelts be refused treatment if they were in an accident? What about motorcyclists who didn't wear helmets? Since a great majority of accidents occur in the home, would inspectors periodically check properties for potential hazards and assign a "risk factor" to the owners? In addition, what about companies such as airplane, automobile and fire-retardant clothing manufacturers who knowingly sell products with "acceptable" failure rates? Although the concept is intriguing, I fear the only ones who will ultimately benefit are the lawyers.  |
Date: 6/13/2003 11:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
I can't say I've ever felt that way about anyone needing medical attention. I've always done the best I could for anyone, without letting the "cause or reason" for a disease or illness dictate how I percieve a patient should be treated. Granted, I'm not a Doctor, but I have one in the family, and we do not dissect people based on their lifestyles. Being overweight does contibute to Type II Diabetes but to be fair, many of the medications also cause weight gain. Some may take two, three or more and steadily gain weight. Most Doctors don't have the answer for this. Stopping the meds causes the blood sugar to be high which results in the serious side effects of Diabetes. Blindness, loss of limbs because of nerve damage and number uno, kidney damage. Weight loss and exercise do help and in many cases, newly diagnosed that is a huge benefit. But for the elderly, the older population, it becomes almost hopeless. It is a vicious cycle. As for smokers, the suffering from COPD and lung cancer is horrible, I could not, or would not deny someone struggling to take a breath to not have medical intervention. The list could go on and on. Heart disease from eating to much fatty food, those who are HIV positive or have full blown AIDS, I hope I never become so jaded to feel that anyone doesn't deserve medical help.  |
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Date: 6/13/2003 11:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
A failed suicide attempt is never an excuse for society to become so harded we lose our empathy. Whether the patient cuts their wrist, takes pills or smaokes, over eats, whatever, we cannot lose human compassion. Each individual is someones who deserves the utmost care and that person should, and I have never, ever seen anyone denied treatment here in my area based on lifestyle, cause of illness or ability to pay. Some primary care doctors are refusing lower paying HMO's and welfare but that IS not because of lifestyle. |
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Date: 6/13/2003 11:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Typos, typos, sorry about that. My fingers were flying here! |
Date: 6/14/2003 7:17:00 AM
From Authorid: 61912
Has anyone ever considered the fact that health care in the US is way overpriced, not to mention how medical facilities take advantage of insurance companies which leads to the high cost of insurance. For example if you go to the doctor and you do not have insurance they are going to give you a very basic treatment, if you have insurance then they want to run tests, X-rays, catscans, MRI's, ect. And then there's the medication. Getting back to the subject, heres a plan, make anyone who turns 18 have to sign a wavier saying that they understand the health risks of smoking and if they choose to smoke they cannot use government funded health care when they get older and develop a health problem related to smoking. Because by now there is no secret that smoking does infact kill you. By the way Im a smoker, and I have insurance that I pay alot of money for. I hope to quit right before the cancer kicks in.......  |
Date: 6/14/2003 7:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 50435
Hey, until the government makes all of these habits that they KNOW leads to health issues, they'd better be providing the health care. If smoking is so bad, why don't they ban smoking? If alcohol is so bad, why can we still purchase it? The government has to take responsibility for its lack of responsibility.  |
Date: 6/14/2003 4:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 37872
As long as I'M PAYING for my medical insurance premiums, I EXPECT to get service from a doctor when I get sick or injured. Whether it be from smoking excessively, drinking excessively, driving on the L.A. freeway, working excessively, etc. There is really nothing I do in this society that isn't risky to my health in some form or fashion AND I'm aware of them all. That's why we pay insurance premiums and rarely use them; because we don't know when we're going to need them; because EVERYTHING is a risk to our health. Is an excessive smoker who knows the risk any less liable than the professional football player who also knows the risk? Besides, there are plenty of doctors and nurses out there that also live that type of lifestyle. The problem is deeper than this, it's a cultural issue; it's how we live.  |
Date: 6/15/2003 3:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
the job of the medical field is not to allow people to die but to save them regardless of what they did to themselves, look at people who attempt suicide  |
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Date: 6/16/2003 11:05:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 62060
people who attempt suicide do so because of severe problems - i have an aunt who took an overdose - not because of their lifestyle. i guess the main problem with my post is how to determine who's problems are self-inflicted, and who's problems are not their own fault. |
Date: 9/16/2003 12:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 28946
This type of thinking is what society was thinking pre Holocaust in Germany. Bio ethics were put into practice and medical treatment was with held from those that were considered lost causes. Then the practice of mercy killings expanded. I agree with Shadow Ghost's comments.  |
Date: 9/16/2003 12:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 15394
Interesting points on each side... me i think I wish for people to have care regardless of how they got injured... how can we ever see the error of our ways if life is lost because we were stupid, and society decided that we weren't good enough for care, or worthy enough for a chance...  |
