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Date: 6/7/2003 12:47:00 PM From Authorid: 54444 Great post and it makes the right points. But unfortunately there will always be those who would rather that we had lost the war than give the present administration credit for doing a great job. thanks for your post. I am quite sure, however, that those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will still not do so. that is the danger of being married to an idealology rather than being able to hear the truth and decide issues for oneself. thanks again. |
Date: 6/7/2003 12:48:00 PM From Authorid: 53052 wow... with what i know about the natzis they basically went and killed everyone who was different... not just beliefs... but also minorities.... it's not a pleasent thing to think about |
Date: 6/7/2003 12:55:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 54247 ManofAsgrd and Midnightly - I was so sure no one would read it. Too bad we cannot all clean up the World before we depart. Thank you both. RAT |
Date: 6/7/2003 12:58:00 PM From Authorid: 13119 I don't think that you realise just how prevalent mass sterilization was. Canada did it in the 50's and 60's maybe into the 70's. We had a lady in Alberta a couple years ago that sued the government for sterilizing her. This issue has absolutely nothing to do with the war in IRAQ and Germany's right to refuse to enter into it. Germany refused to enter Bush's war because they did not believe in it. I agree that Britain and the US did a fairly competant job in Iraq but still the sterilization has nothing to do with that subject. |
Date: 6/7/2003 1:02:00 PM From Authorid: 24924 There are many countries around the globe; take your pick; where there are horrendous atrocities going on; and murderous regimes. African countries, The Philippines, China, Korea, etc. How come Iraq was such a priority? OIL . |
Date: 6/7/2003 1:51:00 PM From Authorid: 54987 This is all true and part of our shameful history as human beings. |
Date: 6/7/2003 2:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
The US has some dirty little secrets that many either choose to forget about or never knew about, here is just one example:Virginia unveils memorial to the 7,000 people who suffered under eugenics programme until 1979 Matthew Engel in Washington Saturday May 4, 2002 The US state of Virginia has formally apologised for its programme of eugenics, which led to more than 7,000 people undergoing forced sterilisation in the name of science and improvement of the human breeding stock. Mark Warner, the governor, issued the statement at the unveiling of a memorial to mark the 75th anniversary of the crucial supreme court decision that upheld the law and allowed 29 other states to pass similar legislation. Overall, more than 60,000 Americans were victims of the program, and in Virginia it continued until 1979. "The eugenics movement was a shameful effort in which state government should never have been involved," Mr Warner said. The memorial, in Charlottesville, honours Carrie Buck, a 17-year-old unmarried mother who had apparently been raped, and became the first victim of the Virginia law. She took the state to the supreme court in 1927 but received a crushing verdict, written by one of America's most revered jurists, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr: "It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind." As Magoo said, "Sterilization has nothing to do with the Iraq War." |
Date: 6/7/2003 2:11:00 PM From Authorid: 13119 thank you Shadow Ghost, I never realised that about Virginia but I did know about Canada. I fail to see what this has to do with the Iraq war though, these are all atrocities that have happened here and in Germany but because it happened doesn't mean that Germany sat there and said "Oh, we did this so we better not back a US led war that has nothing to do with it" |
Date: 6/7/2003 2:17:00 PM From Authorid: 12341 Although by the same token Ariel Sharon IS known to bulldoze Palistinian kids just for throwing stones. The Saudi monarchy is still well known for MAKING woman to walk with male chaperones. |
Date: 6/7/2003 2:23:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 54247 Magoo, "sterilization has nothing to do with Iraq" - guess you are right - Iraq just murdered their own, including children. The Germans evidently began with sterilization which evolved into "mercy killings." And, years ago here in the U.S., many retarded were locked away in mental institutions - teeth pulled, etc. Thinker, I personally believe Iraq became a priority when they allowed terrorism training in their country. Sadly today, it is difficult to know what media to believe. As Koolade stated: "shameful history as human beings." FYI - we can disagree. Thank you all for sharing. RAT |
Date: 6/7/2003 2:29:00 PM From Authorid: 13119 Iraq murdering their own is nothing new, many many many countries are still doing that! How does this situation relate to forced sterilization? As for the terrorism training, who do you think trained them? They are not the only country to train mercenaries or terrorists. |
Date: 6/7/2003 2:33:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 54247 So proud of all of you. Yes, bad things happen and continue to be discovered. Here in California a nearby mental hospital that used to house the retarded was reported on Memorial Day as having over 4,000 unmarked graves. There were Americans (including family) who thought we were nuts because we did not have our deaf son placed in an institution. Today, he is self-supporting and goes out of his way to help people. We may disagree on remedies - but YOU ALL DO CARE! Thank you. RAT |
Date: 6/7/2003 3:16:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 54247 Shadow Ghost, guess we have to clean up each state. Bad things do ooze up daily. We feel very helpless at times. But, we need to let things that are not right be known. Magoo, the German thing seemed to start with "sterilization" and then went downhill to prisons, torture, and killing them. We need to be aware when evil starts to grow as well as know things are never as they seem. RAT |
Date: 6/7/2003 3:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
RAT, by the early 1930s, some 30 American states had adopted eugenics laws. Most of them were modeled after the law which Harry H. Laughlin had drafted for the state of Virginia in 1924. That legislation found emulators outside the United States too. For example, it served Germany's National Socialists as a model for their 1933 "Law for Protection Against Genetically Defective Offspring," on the basis of which at least 400,000 men and women were forcibly sterilized. More than 200,000 handicapped or allegedly handicapped people were also murdered by the Nazis. The University of Heidelberg was apparently so grateful to eugenicist Laughlin that it awarded him an honorary doctorate in 1936 for his "services on behalf of racial hygiene." In 1927, the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed the constitutionality of Virginia's sterilization law. This was followed by a swift rise in the number of forced sterilizations in the United States. American eugenicists also pushed for anti-immigration measures and stricter laws to prevent racially mixed marriages. In a speech to the U.S. Congress, Laughlin had argued that "morally and intellectually inferior" immigrants from eastern and southern Europe were polluting America's genetic potential. The 1924 Immigration Restriction Act reduced by two thirds the immigration quotas for people from those parts of Europe. In signing the new law, President Calvin Coolidge said: "America must remain American." This is all well documented and even though the Nazi Regime was one of the "darkest times in human history" we here in the States have our own "Hall of Shame". As for Iraq, I still question how long before Haliburton and Bechtel get their "piece" of Iraq not to mention a 10 year lease on a huge oil rich piece of land for Cheney. Most will never know, most will never care. Germany already has a place in history where hypocrisy allowed an aristocracy to pose as a democracy. |
Date: 6/7/2003 4:40:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 54247 Shadow Ghost - I am 71 years of age and from Missouri - never heard of that in all my years of living and traveling. Good point - we need to pay attention and protest! FYI do not agree with you about the current administration and believe oil had nothing to do with Iraq's murderous activity. But respect your opinion. RAT |
Date: 6/7/2003 4:53:00 PM From Authorid: 12341 I respect yours to AND appreciate your the opportunity to respond to your posts. Always interesting! |
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