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IS THIS WHY GERMAN LEADERS DO NOT SUPPORT USA IN IRAQ? by RAT

  Author: 54247  Category:(Discussion) Created:(6/7/2003 12:37:00 PM)
This post has been Viewed (1492 times)

My son is deaf and I received this posting from a wonderful deaf lady, my age. Even though this occurred during my lifetime, I really was not aware. During World War II, we did not have TV, etc.

>In 1975, Mr. Horst Biesold, a teacher of deaf students in Bremen, West Germany, was curious. Mr. Biesold loved sports-especially deaf sports. Mr. Biesold was hearing, but he knew many deaf people. He had many friends who were deaf because he loved deaf sports. Mr. Biesold wondered why none of his deaf friends had children.<

>Finally, he asked one of his friends about it. The man was very embarrassed. But he told Mr. Biesold the truth: The German government had sterilized him. Under the Nazis in the 1930's, the government had removed his testes. The testes are the male reproductive glands. Without his testes, Mr. Biesold's friend could never father children.<

>Stunned, Mr. Biesold began to do research. He wanted to find out how many deaf adults in Germany could not have children. Mr. Biesold's research showed that: 17,000 deaf people were sterilized in Germany in the 1930's; Catholic priests and Jewish rabbis tended to protest sterilization. Protestant ministers tended to support it.<

>Deaf people had a Nazi organization; their Nazi organization supported sterilization. When people were sterilized, no medicine was used for pain; the reproductive glands-testes in men and ovaries in women-were removed without anesthetic; 33% of the people who were sterilized were under 18 years old; 9% of the people who were sterilized were women, pregnant more than six months, as part of forced abortions.<

>By 1940, sterilization was replaced by murder; the Nazis called it "mercy killing;" About 150,000 handicapped people- and 1600 deaf people were killed by the Nazis. "Mr. Biesold's work was so important," said Marla Petal, who invited Mr.Biesold to speak at the Temple Beth Solomon of the deaf in 1983. "The Nazis hurt deaf people beyond belief. They murdered and maimed themand they wiped out a generation of their children. "Deaf people were among the first victims of the Holocaust." <

MY COMMENT: In late 1950s, my husband was assigned to Germany. I will never forget a day with friends in a Wiesbaden park - they had a severely retarded son. As we walked along the path, local Germans would look at the boy and completely get off the sidewalk almost running as far away from us as they could. It was disgusting.

I did not know they had experienced days of eliminating the disabled as well as Jewish people. I had heard that there were German families with handicapped children that never let them out of their homes and kept it secret.

Before moving to base housing, we lived in a German apartment building which was a German military recruiting facility on the first five stories. A very elderly German doorkeeper on duty on the ground floor really bonded with our deaf son. I will never forget the Christmas Eve, he knocked on our door to give us a present to put under our tree for him.

After sharing the previous with online friends, I received this response from one who is a British minister serving in Austria.

>Of the six mercy killing centres of 1940-41 established by the Nazis, the largest is close to me here at Schloss Hartheim where at least 18,000 were killed as part of the project T4. Close to Dresden was the second largest number with over 9,000 and the other four centres had around 3,000 each. <

>These mercy killings were disabled children either physically including deaf or mentally. After 1941 disabled adults were also exterminated. As the Nazis destroyed all records in 1944 and 1945 the numbers exterminated will never really be known but these numbers quoted are what can be established from other local records but most realise that the numbers are probably a very conservative estimate. Schloss Hartheim became a sub camp of the main concentration camp of Mauthausen. In Linz alone were three subcamps of Mauthausen plus Ebensee and Gusen and others were also established.<

>I am very much aware of all the horrors. Each year on the first Sunday in May there is Homecoming Day when former inmates return to Mauthausen and each year I try to get over for the English service held. I noticed that this year the number of former inmates returning had dwindled considerably. But a large number of younger folks come too and there were 12,000 present this year for the commemoration. Mauthausen was liberated by the Americans at the beginning of May 1945.<

>Adolf Hitler was born in Braunau in Upper Austria and first went to school in Fischlham and later went to the monastery school in Lambacj were many think he goit the idea of the swastika from. Then his parents moved to Leonding and his parents are buried in the cemetery there. His former parents house is about 20 mins by cycle from my house. Hitler went to the Fadinger School in Linz where he failed and then tried in Steyr
I apologize for the length of this posting. We are facing similar disasters today. Many people especially those in the media seem to be outraged because they believe we invaded Iraq and have found no weapons of mass destruction. It may take time - in fact some of the material and weapons may have been taken to a neighboring country. We have found massive grave sites and evidence of prison camps that even housed children.

Dear friends, for years, I have regretted that we did get involved in WWII earlier. Look how long it took us to prevail. This one with Iraq is in the end stage in less than a year.

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Replies:      
Date: 6/7/2003 12:47:00 PM  From Authorid: 54444    Great post and it makes the right points. But unfortunately there will always be those who would rather that we had lost the war than give the present administration credit for doing a great job. thanks for your post. I am quite sure, however, that those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will still not do so. that is the danger of being married to an idealology rather than being able to hear the truth and decide issues for oneself. thanks again.  
Date: 6/7/2003 12:48:00 PM  From Authorid: 53052    wow... with what i know about the natzis they basically went and killed everyone who was different... not just beliefs... but also minorities.... it's not a pleasent thing to think about  
Date: 6/7/2003 12:55:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 54247    ManofAsgrd and Midnightly - I was so sure no one would read it. Too bad we cannot all clean up the World before we depart. Thank you both. RAT
Date: 6/7/2003 12:58:00 PM  From Authorid: 13119    I don't think that you realise just how prevalent mass sterilization was. Canada did it in the 50's and 60's maybe into the 70's. We had a lady in Alberta a couple years ago that sued the government for sterilizing her. This issue has absolutely nothing to do with the war in IRAQ and Germany's right to refuse to enter into it. Germany refused to enter Bush's war because they did not believe in it. I agree that Britain and the US did a fairly competant job in Iraq but still the sterilization has nothing to do with that subject.  
Date: 6/7/2003 1:02:00 PM  From Authorid: 24924    There are many countries around the globe; take your pick; where there are horrendous atrocities going on; and murderous regimes. African countries, The Philippines, China, Korea, etc. How come Iraq was such a priority? OIL .  
Date: 6/7/2003 1:51:00 PM  From Authorid: 54987    This is all true and part of our shameful history as human beings.  
Date: 6/7/2003 2:04:00 PM  From Authorid: 12341    The US has some dirty little secrets that many either choose to forget about or never knew about, here is just one example:Virginia unveils memorial to the 7,000 people who suffered under eugenics programme until 1979

Matthew Engel in Washington
Saturday May 4, 2002

The US state of Virginia has formally apologised for its programme of eugenics, which led to more than 7,000 people undergoing
forced sterilisation in the name of science and improvement of the human breeding stock.
Mark Warner, the governor, issued the statement at the unveiling of a memorial to mark the 75th anniversary of the crucial
supreme court decision that upheld the law and allowed 29 other states to pass similar legislation.

Overall, more than 60,000 Americans were victims of the program, and in Virginia it continued until 1979. "The eugenics
movement was a shameful effort in which state government should never have been involved," Mr Warner said.

The memorial, in Charlottesville, honours Carrie Buck, a 17-year-old unmarried mother who had apparently been raped, and
became the first victim of the Virginia law.

She took the state to the supreme court in 1927 but received a crushing verdict, written by one of America's most revered jurists,
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr: "It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let
them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind." As Magoo said, "Sterilization has nothing to do with the Iraq War."
  
Date: 6/7/2003 2:11:00 PM  From Authorid: 13119    thank you Shadow Ghost, I never realised that about Virginia but I did know about Canada. I fail to see what this has to do with the Iraq war though, these are all atrocities that have happened here and in Germany but because it happened doesn't mean that Germany sat there and said "Oh, we did this so we better not back a US led war that has nothing to do with it"  
Date: 6/7/2003 2:17:00 PM  From Authorid: 12341    Although by the same token Ariel Sharon IS known to bulldoze Palistinian kids just for throwing stones. The Saudi monarchy is still well known for MAKING woman to walk with male chaperones.  
Date: 6/7/2003 2:23:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 54247    Magoo, "sterilization has nothing to do with Iraq" - guess you are right - Iraq just murdered their own, including children. The Germans evidently began with sterilization which evolved into "mercy killings." And, years ago here in the U.S., many retarded were locked away in mental institutions - teeth pulled, etc. Thinker, I personally believe Iraq became a priority when they allowed terrorism training in their country. Sadly today, it is difficult to know what media to believe. As Koolade stated: "shameful history as human beings." FYI - we can disagree. Thank you all for sharing. RAT
Date: 6/7/2003 2:29:00 PM  From Authorid: 13119    Iraq murdering their own is nothing new, many many many countries are still doing that! How does this situation relate to forced sterilization? As for the terrorism training, who do you think trained them? They are not the only country to train mercenaries or terrorists.  
Date: 6/7/2003 2:33:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 54247    So proud of all of you. Yes, bad things happen and continue to be discovered. Here in California a nearby mental hospital that used to house the retarded was reported on Memorial Day as having over 4,000 unmarked graves. There were Americans (including family) who thought we were nuts because we did not have our deaf son placed in an institution. Today, he is self-supporting and goes out of his way to help people. We may disagree on remedies - but YOU ALL DO CARE! Thank you. RAT
Date: 6/7/2003 3:16:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 54247    Shadow Ghost, guess we have to clean up each state. Bad things do ooze up daily. We feel very helpless at times. But, we need to let things that are not right be known. Magoo, the German thing seemed to start with "sterilization" and then went downhill to prisons, torture, and killing them. We need to be aware when evil starts to grow as well as know things are never as they seem. RAT
Date: 6/7/2003 3:59:00 PM  From Authorid: 12341    RAT, by the early 1930s, some 30 American states had adopted eugenics laws. Most of them were
modeled after the law which Harry H. Laughlin had drafted for the state of Virginia in 1924. That
legislation found emulators outside the United States too. For example, it served Germany's National
Socialists as a model for their 1933 "Law for Protection Against Genetically Defective Offspring," on
the basis of which at least 400,000 men and women were forcibly sterilized. More than 200,000
handicapped or allegedly handicapped people were also murdered by the Nazis. The University of
Heidelberg was apparently so grateful to eugenicist Laughlin that it awarded him an honorary
doctorate in 1936 for his "services on behalf of racial hygiene."

In 1927, the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed the constitutionality of Virginia's sterilization law. This was
followed by a swift rise in the number of forced sterilizations in the United States. American
eugenicists also pushed for anti-immigration measures and stricter laws to prevent racially mixed
marriages. In a speech to the U.S. Congress, Laughlin had argued that "morally and intellectually
inferior" immigrants from eastern and southern Europe were polluting America's genetic potential. The
1924 Immigration Restriction Act reduced by two thirds the immigration quotas for people from those
parts of Europe. In signing the new law, President Calvin Coolidge said: "America must remain
American." This is all well documented and even though the Nazi Regime was one of the "darkest times in human history" we here in the States have our own "Hall of Shame". As for Iraq, I still question how long before Haliburton and Bechtel get their "piece" of Iraq not to mention a 10 year lease on a huge oil rich piece of land for Cheney. Most will never know, most will never care. Germany already has a place in history where hypocrisy allowed an aristocracy to pose as a democracy.
  
Date: 6/7/2003 4:40:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 54247    Shadow Ghost - I am 71 years of age and from Missouri - never heard of that in all my years of living and traveling. Good point - we need to pay attention and protest! FYI do not agree with you about the current administration and believe oil had nothing to do with Iraq's murderous activity. But respect your opinion. RAT
Date: 6/7/2003 4:53:00 PM  From Authorid: 12341    I respect yours to AND appreciate your the opportunity to respond to your posts. Always interesting!  

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