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How Would You Feel, If This Was You?

  Author:  15070  Category:(Debate) Created:(4/24/2003 9:42:00 PM)
This post has been Viewed (3943 times)

Let me begin by saying, the whole reason I even found USM, was my interest in the Paranormal. I read a book in 1979, by Gerald Brittle, THE DEMONOLOGIST, the true story of Ed & Lorraine Warren. They have been paranormal researchers & lay-demonologists for almost 50 years. They are famous as authors, experts, and speakers. I had seen them so many times over the last 20 years on T.V. & they have had a couple of movie's, based on their work, on T.V......INCLUDING: The Haunted & A Haunting In Conneticut.

I even had a story published, by them, in The New England Journal Of Psychic Research. I was so happy! And my story was REAL.....I lived it, as many USM'er here, have also had similar paranormal experiences. I was even invited to their 2001 Hallowen Party, in Monroe, Conn. (I didn't go).

Now-my debate:

if you go to the link: (http://www.amityvillemurders.com/2000/2002/interview/rgarton.html), you will see, a man named Ray Garton, who is an author (He wrote A HAUNTING IN CONNETICUT), claims that not only did Ed Warren order him to make the story up, but that Ed Warren showed contempt for the people the help.

*sigh*, now I have never met the Warren's face-to-face. I have spoken with Ed's nephew, by his late twin Sister (who is on the BOD of N.E.S.P.R.).

This is NOT the first time they have been accused of wrong doing (remember-they are almost 80 years old now).

But, here's what bothers me-

they DID lie (and get caught) faking facts about the Amityville Horror case.

AND

now this..........

now the debate:

DO YOU FEEL-THAT 50 YEARS OF PARANORMAL RESEARCH BECOMES "SUSPECT", IF THE RESEARCHERS HAE LIED ON FAMOUS CASES?

and

ARE THE WARRENS (http://www.warrens.net) FAKE's?

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Halloween is Right around the corner.. .







 
Replies:      
Date: 4/24/2003 9:55:00 PM  From Authorid: 62065    thats a good question, don't really know how to answer...ill get back to you on that....Darkangel-1  
Date: 4/24/2003 10:08:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15070    thank you-it sounds stupid, but I would feel personally betrayed if Ed really did say this....I mean it could just be a disgruntaled Author, attempting a personal attack. It just makes me sad....  
Date: 4/24/2003 10:10:00 PM  From Authorid: 62065    yea, the really sad thing is ppl are really like that! i dunno, i don't really have alot of faith in ppl these days...lol...sorry to say! Its a really tough question to answer, i mean, its kinda a yes and no question, but im not really sure how to explain....Darkangel-1  
Date: 4/24/2003 10:11:00 PM  From Authorid: 57404    Hmm, well I have never met them, however I have heard a lot of things about them.. all good actually. I can't say one way or the other if they are fake or not to tell you the truth. I mean if they are fake.. Man, they are good. lol But then again, it seems like anything to do with the paranormal, someone has to dig up some form of what they think is proof to disprove the person or people who do this type of work.
I'll look at the links and get back to you if I get more of an idea on the whole thing. :-) God Bless
  
Date: 4/24/2003 10:15:00 PM  From Authorid: 36901    In my opinion, they are frauds. I say this because the whole Amityville thing was proven to be a hoax.  
Date: 4/24/2003 10:19:00 PM  From Authorid: 57404    Hmm, well I have never met them, however I have heard a lot of things about them.. all good actually. I can't say one way or the other if they are fake or not to tell you the truth. I mean if they are fake.. Man, they are good. lol But then again, it seems like anything to do with the paranormal, someone has to dig up some form of what they think is proof to disprove the person or people who do this type of work.
I'll look at the links and get back to you if I get more of an idea on the whole thing. :-) God Bless
  
Date: 4/24/2003 10:20:00 PM  From Authorid: 57404    Ack sorry about the double post.. gotta remeber not to hit the refresh button lol. Anyway, I never knew about them faking the Amityville haunting. Why would they do that? Just for publicity? God Bless  
Date: 4/24/2003 10:21:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15070    I guess in 50 years, you are bound to have personal attacks from people. But, with their good reputations, why lie? Why fudge facts? I mean, their paranormal evidence & collection, must be among the world's finest! The whole thing makes me sad.   
Date: 4/24/2003 10:31:00 PM  From Authorid: 36901    The Lutz family started the hoax. Some say it was because they couldn't make their house payments. Others say it was to try and get Defoe (I think that is the correct last name of the guy who killed his family) out of jail. They have admitted that it was a hoax, but I'm not sure if they've ever said why they did it. They admitted that the house wasn't haunted or filled with demons. The Warren's still swear that they felt something there, but I don't believe it. I can't remember all the details because it's been a long while since I read up on all of it. If you want more info, I can send you a few links.  
Date: 4/24/2003 10:42:00 PM  From Authorid: 36901    From what I understand, they also claimed that Ocean Avenue was an Indian sanitarium where the mad and dying would be left exposed to the elements to die. This has been proven untrue.  
Date: 4/24/2003 11:23:00 PM  From Authorid: 53558    I really don't have an answers to your qestion. It is a bit mind boggling. Sorry.  
Date: 4/24/2003 11:37:00 PM  From Authorid: 47699    To me, they just seemed deserate to make some easy money. Beyond that, I doesn't matter what they've seen or experienced in their years. The simple fact is that they're frauds and crooks.  
Date: 4/25/2003 1:06:00 AM  From Authorid: 53689    I personally have a problem believing what I have seen from the Warren's. It always seems that everything they find is a "demon". I find that hard to believe. And they do seem to sensationalize everything. I try to steer clear of their stuff..but that is a personal choice.  
Date: 4/25/2003 1:42:00 AM  From Authorid: 59418    Wow, i didn't know they lied about that stuff. I read some of the stories on their site..they were pretty good, but i didn't know they had lied. I guess if they lie about the famous cases, you can't really tell if they told the truth about other things..  
Date: 4/25/2003 6:30:00 AM  From Authorid: 47296    If even one case out of many were found to be fraudulent, then yes, all cases would then become questionable.  
Date: 4/25/2003 8:40:00 AM  From Authorid: 57404    TarheelGirl. LOL I agree, I noticed that some time back as well, I wondered why everything to them are demon's. I have ran into a couple of demon's but mostly I come in contact with human spirits, the good and the bad. lol I can't imagine every home they go into is full of demon's. Well, if the Warrens are frauds, then may it all come back to them. God Bless  
Date: 4/25/2003 9:19:00 AM  From Authorid: 61928    What little credibility they had to begin with, being paranormal experts, is out the window after that.  
Date: 4/25/2003 11:13:00 AM  From Authorid: 16671    While I believe that in the beginning they tried to do the right thing, being raised catholic, I think that he did read the bible for himself and saw that God does give his children power of cast these demons out, where the catholic church believes only the priest can do it. He took this and ran with it, trying to do what he knew to do, but I think greed got in his way as we are not to use the gifts of God for personal gain. When things started falling apart then they started to lie about certain things. I think lots of their experience were true, but now due to the lies, I feel like Warrior Spirit.  
Date: 4/25/2003 4:08:00 PM  From Authorid: 13119    I agree with Warrior Spirit (I actually read all comments before posting) If you lie and cheat once then your moral character comes into for everything before or after the lie. Remember that old adage once a thief always a theif, well once a cheat always a cheat.  
Date: 4/25/2003 4:36:00 PM  From Authorid: 24845    It does effect thier creditability. I would be less likely to believe their past research if I found out that they lied about this recent one.  
Date: 4/25/2003 4:57:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15070    thank you for all your answers. I know that I have only been going on actual "ghost-hunts" fo a few years. And, this is after a lifetime of intrest in the subject. IF Ed Warren did indeed say such awful things, about the people coming to him being "crazy", *sigh*, can you imagine???? I mean those of us who truly BELIEVE in "inhuman", human, demonic, whatever-you-wanna-call-them, spirits, peoplewho really ARE suffering from spiritual ugliness & desperatly needing help, and the very person, the VERY PEOPLE, their own clergy will recommed, believe these peopl are NUTS?????????!!!! Great! Who's gong to help them??? I mean, spiritual problems need clergy, or the equivalent, true? Medical problems need a doctor! HAUNTINGS need "professionals" (as professional as you can be with a subject that has no absolutes). This is terrible! I have to tell you, this gives paranormal research a black eye, which it already has a problem from, and I fee so very sorry for everyone who has reached out to the Warrens for help.  
Date: 4/25/2003 7:44:00 PM  From Authorid: 24845    I agree LSG, I can't really imagine not believing in the afterlife. It's something, I think, that can never be proven or disproven. I know that we go somewhere after we die. I don't know if it's heaven or some kind of "waiting realm". In fact I'm leaning more toward the latter of those two. I've had supernatural and unexplained things happen to me. None that would require the help of "professionals" but I'd really like to have the peace of mind that they were honest, and were there to help me not make fun of me behind my back. I think it's sad that they would be fraudlent. It's not just the physical that's in danger here. It's the spiritual.  
Date: 4/25/2003 8:45:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15070    thank you, Angel2001, you are right. Thank you for your reply.   
Date: 4/25/2003 9:05:00 PM  From Authorid: 16671    Amen Angel, hey thought you said you couldnt write stuff just think it? LOL HOn,you do good.  
Date: 4/26/2003 10:48:00 PM  From Authorid: 58681    I can't really judge here. The scientific field also is full of people who lie and falsify data. It is not uncommon, even today. Most people know the Amytiville story was fake. However, I don't think that the years of paranormal research can be discounted because of a few cases of deceit. Cheers GA
Date: 4/27/2003 8:36:00 AM  From Authorid: 48809    Many people are only too happy to accuse someone in this line of work ... simply because they disagree with them or do not believe in what they are doing!If they are proven to be wrong , then of course they should be ousted and stripped of all credibility. However, until this is actually done I will reserve judgement.  
Date: 4/27/2003 10:03:00 AM  From Authorid: 36079    I live in Connecticut, Id be interested in any CT stuff. But I had read up all about Duddleyville, and someone who was a dudley themselves did research on dudleyville and found it was all just legend. http://www.legendofdudleytown.com/ It talks about his dealings with the warrens on that site, the Warrens had also in the past led groups into dudleyville.  
Date: 4/27/2003 1:03:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15070    Smurfpoo-Thank you fr the excellent link. I have been there for over an hour now. I cannot tell you how sad this makes me. This is a copy of an email, I sent to the author of the web site:"I admit-it makes me very sad. I am one of the thousands who bought the Warren's books & followed their careers very closely. I bought "The Demonologist", when I was 20 years old. It left a deep imprint on me. I have had paranormal experiences, and even though I caught early inconstancies in their stories, I thought "Well, they're older, maybe they get confused".

I have been doing paranormal research for a few years now. Credibility is EXTREMELY important to me, as in getting the facts straight. I run a very scientific (as scientific as possible, on a subjective subject), and what the Warren's have done, makes me sick.

I feel so badly, for the people who really needed help, if they help they received was fake. And, they have given the rest of us a black eye. I would worry for the person(s) who NEED help & are now afraid to reach out.

Thank you for your information. You know, one of the ironies is, I HAD a story published in the N.E.S.P.R. newsletter. My story is true.

Peace To You & Yours,

Cathy Du Pont".

Now, I a tinking about all the people who really needed help & will not get it.
  
Date: 4/28/2003 5:53:00 AM  From Authorid: 36079    Yes, it is a great site isn't it? Kinda takes all the fun out of dudleyville though, lol.  
Date: 4/28/2003 7:31:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15070    Yeah....I kind of hate when a good mystery, or haunting, is solved & the truth is less than exciting. For example...when Roger Patterson admitted faking the famous "bigfoot" film. I was really disappointed! Not because I either believed, or dis-believed in a bigfoot, but because the idea that a large primate running around, undetected was cool~! I mean, when they discovered live fish, living dinosaurs, thought extinct for thousands of years, I was really hyped! Giant Gorillas were not even discovered till the 20th century! And the Loch Ness Monster-I had seen awesome picture of giant bodies moving in the murky waters!!! I even remember in the 70's, when a crew for SIGHTINGS (or whatever show Lenord Nemoy was on)..the were filming for the t.v. show and something HUGE broke the surface of the water.....ON FILM!!!!! It was exciting, and I don't think it was faked. So, when a "haunting", or a good ghost story, especially an old one, is shown in a different light, yeah, it's a disappointment of sorts....thanks for the killer links too!!!!!~smiles~  
Date: 5/2/2003 3:20:00 PM  From Authorid: 51393    I'm looking at the pics now on this site.It seems quite real to me.I don't see how they could just re-create in those pictures.I believe it is more corruptions people hear say just to demolish their name.I could be wrong and maybe i need to read these through.I would love to visit these places.  

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