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Date: 4/23/2003 7:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
how is this a debate?  |
Date: 4/23/2003 7:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 54570
OK I dont mess or pick on Catholics. I do however admire them for taking birth control pills for headaches lol.  |
Date: 4/23/2003 9:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 25390
You've been reading the Pagan-Christian post haven't you? LOL. Thank you for your insight, I do think you should post this over there.  |
Date: 4/23/2003 10:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
TRY AGAIN, look at the history and you will see that your not right about what your saying, the roman empire was the head of all things in that nation at the time, but they were not christian at this time and many men/women feared the roman catholic church, because they put so many to death that did not agree with thier doctrin and ways. It was the magistrates that sought to kill Jesus for fear that he would take over their nation. Eventually they saw that even after the death of Jesus , that Christianity, was NOT going to die, and so then they imbraced it. Roman Catholics started out being one of the biggest pagan cults. When Christianity was tolerated as a religion in the Roman Empire in 313, “General Councils” of bishops from all areas of the Roman Empire were called by the leading political leader, the emperor Constantine and his successors, to decide uniformity of dogma. With the collapse of the Roman Empire and the rise of the Papacy in Rome, the Patriarch of Rome declared himself to have jurisdiction over all Christianity. Because of this, around 1054 both the Eastern Churches (known as the Orthodox Churches) and the Western Church (known as the Roman Catholic Church) mutually declared each other in schism and mutually excommunicated each other. AS YOU can see by this the old catholic church wanted NO PART of Christianity.The Roman Catholic branch of Christianity is the successor of the church established in Rome soon after Christ's death. *AFTER the death of JESUS*References Shelley, Fred M. and Audrey E. Clarke, eds. Human and Cultural Geography. Dubuque, Iowa: Wm. C. Brown Publishers, 1994.  |
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Date: 4/23/2003 10:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Your right that it did have pagan beliefs, but AFTER the death of Jesus when they embraced Christianity some of that changed, ,however they still have pagan beliefs, such as the worship of statues, and saints, where as God tells us that is wrong. |
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Date: 4/23/2003 10:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
2Cor:6:16: And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? |
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Date: 4/23/2003 11:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
ONCE again, ya bring out the facts, they dont come back. |
Date: 4/24/2003 2:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 24934
Have you not read what the Holy Spirit has to say about the Catholic church? "Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrins of devils. Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbiding to marry..." (Tim.4:1-3). The Holy Spirit warned the early christians of the Catholic church that was to begin in the latter times, Forbiding to marry is just one the characteristics that demostrait the truth spoken by the Spirit. Jesus commanded us plainly not to call any man on earth "Father" "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matt.23 ). But as you can see the Catholic Church has disobeyed and ignored what Jesus knew would happen. It's a shame that those that were in the faith, coverted to Catholisism, but as we all know, many times it was for fear of death. Over 50 million christians died at the hands of the Catholics. Not only can we find scripture warning us of the Catholic Church but also of the sucsession of popes: "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." (2Thess.2:3-4). God also tells us that He will send "strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.(Vs.11-12). The church that we find in the New Testament is the church that Jesus will return for, the Catholic church had its beginning centuries too late, with its false doctrines to cosider themselves the true church. While Jesus has not return we have the opportuniy to teach the gosple to the catholics so that they can come out, be saved, and become christians. Remember it was the Holy Sprit, speaking clearly that is giving the warning. Nikeinlogos |
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Date: 4/24/2003 6:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 25390
Catholics do not worship saints. Directly from my mother and my stepfather (who are both Catholic), they speak through saints to get through to God, because they fear God and feel they are not worthy enough to talk to Him directly. They do not idolize Mary, they deeply respect her for being the mother of Christ. |
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Date: 4/24/2003 10:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
ODDsmell, this is what God tells us, ""Heb:4:16: Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.""IT SAYS come boldly. otherwise directly to GOD through the name of Jesus, not the name of saints. Jn:16  6: At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: IT says JESUS will pray the Father FOR YOU> NOT saint or mary to get JEsus to talk to God, but through prayer on our own to God in the name of Jesus. Now concerning the mother of Jesus. True, she gave birth to the son of God, but she was a vessle, nothing more, nothing less. People think highly of the pope, think that he is their direct link to God, what about his mother? Why isnt she up there?She gave birth to the pope. The catholic church is idolizing her when she has did nothing more than what women everyday do and that is to give birth to a child. THE CHILD **JESUS*should be shown respect, worship not the MOTHER. God tells us, ""1Pt : But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:""1Cor:1:30: But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:So IF WE are made righteouse and sanctified, if were told were a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, then why in the world would we think that were not worthy to come to God in the name of Jesus? 1Cor:14:33: For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."" God calls US the BELIEVERS in the lord Jesus, the saints. So does that mean that the catholics should come to me or mike, or papa bryant or rusure or others that believe in the name of the Lord Jesus so that WE can speak to God for them? NO, God says that if you are a believer that you should come to the throne room boldly, that WE should talk to HIM. |
Date: 4/24/2003 12:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
Umm.... the Catholic church did not come about til 312 AD when Emperor Constantine had a "dream from God" that said said if he made the church into the leading religion, he would be greatly rewarded. Before that people were just Christians. From what I understand of history and the reformation, people like Calvin, Luther, and that other dude in England (can't remember his name), all all believed in something OPPOSITE of the Cathlic religion's "go to heaven by works", and they believed the "righteous man shall live by faith". Thats what I understand anyway. You yourself admit that the Catholic church has "pagan beliefs and practices". How can a "pagan church" (If you will) be "more Christian" than the one that doesn't bow to statues or pray to Mary (who to me is revered more as a godess more than anything)? Just a thought.  |
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Date: 4/24/2003 12:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
Nikeinlogos, thats interesting, but the verse about the man who exults himself and sits in the temple, thats not the pope, thats the antichrist. |
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Date: 4/24/2003 12:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
oddsmell, the saints are not mediators: "1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Messiah Yeshua." Humans are not worthy. We are ALL saints, those who have been saved by the blood of the lamb. The Catholic saints, believe it or not, are all sinners, for "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 63). So, if this Jesus was without sin (He is the only perfect one) and these saints are sinner, who is more worthy to be our mediator? Saints or the risen Christ, Son of God? |
Date: 4/24/2003 12:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
Firstborn... we have a MAJOR!!! problem here. "So does that mean that the catholics should come to me or mike, or papa bryant or rusure here... " Im not seeing JESUSFREAK anywhere on here....  just kidding... needed to add some humor |
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Date: 4/24/2003 5:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 25390
I think that calling a Catholic a Christian or not is only a matter of opinion myself. If you ask a Catholic, more than likely they will say it is a Christian faith. Others will say it is not. The bottom line is, believe what you will, and let others believe as they will. |
Date: 4/24/2003 8:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
well, at least when the good Christian folk are "debating" among themselves....they leaveus alone.....*wanders off whistling*  |
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Date: 4/24/2003 8:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
BTW-good answer OddSmell! |
Date: 4/24/2003 9:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
The Catholic started their own from Christianity which was taught by Christ and His apostles. There was no such thing as Catholicism until about the 3 or 4 century. There were no denominations in the days of Jesus and His apostles. The apostles taught Christ and Christ only. Paul attempts to teach us that there be no divisions when he says in 1 Cor 1:12 'Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; (Peter) and I of Christ.' 1 Cor. 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? Paul, Peter, or none of the apostles had a church named after them. They gave ALL honor unto Christ and they taught ONLY the gospel of Christ. According to God's Word, if ANY OTHER gospel is taught other than what the apostles taught then it is not of true Christianity.  |
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Date: 4/24/2003 10:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 25390
I was just thinking of something....I have been hearing that a Catholic's faith is based on "doing works" and that a Protestant's is based on faith alone. What is preaching and witnessing? Wouldn't that be considered "doing works?" Just throwing another log on the fire.... |
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Date: 4/24/2003 10:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 25390
Rusure, you raise some very interesting points... |
Date: 4/24/2003 10:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 51979
Oddsmell I am not sure what you mean. We Christians do not wintess and things to hopefully get "in the good" with God. We do it because we know the way and wish to share it. By Catholosim's doing works, they hope that if they are "good enough" in life they can get into heaven. That is simply not true because no man is good enough with the blood of Jesus Christ. We are all the scum of the earth.  |
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Date: 4/24/2003 10:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 25390
Vital Death, I'm only throwing logs on the fire, :-Þ And some Christians (again I say, NOT ALL) do witness to get in good with God... |
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Date: 4/24/2003 10:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Jesus Freak, sorry bud, didnt mean to leave you out. LOL Oddsmell:, believe what you will, your choice, but it wont stop us from preaching what our Lord has told us to preach. LSG: Sure it was a good answer, the wrong one, but good. GREAT answer VD. ""Jms :18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."" |
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Date: 4/24/2003 10:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 25390
FB, I didn't say that's what I believe....I'm just arguing for the sake of it.... |
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Date: 4/24/2003 10:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 25390
I don't see how this is a "right or wrong" debate....but oh well. |
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Date: 4/24/2003 10:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
LOL ODDY,now you sound like me. LOL |
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Date: 4/25/2003 2:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 24934
Jesus Freak, I know you would like that passage to be refering to the "antichrist" but its not. If you'll open your Bible to (1 John)you'll not only see that in that book it is the only place that the "antichrist" is mentioned, but that there are many antichrists (1Jn.2:18). "who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son." (Vs.22). Anyone that denies Jesus is the Christ is an antichrist, anyone who denies the Father and Son is an antichrist. And in the time that 1John was written there were many in the world allready. The belief that there will be "One Antichrist" to come in the future is a false doctrine. The Bible does not teach it, neither can you find it in Revelations. The Jehovah Witness fall into this catagory, with their teaching that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, and not the God the Son, makes them an antichrist. Nikeinlogos |
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Date: 4/25/2003 3:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 52140
Nikeinlogos, I still think you're wrong, look at hte context. I have to go tho cuz bus is bout to come and I will not be home until sunday, debate with ya then |
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Date: 4/25/2003 7:28:00 AM
From Authorid: 25390
LOL FB......woohoo! C'mon let's fight. C'mon c'mon c'mon! Put up yer dukes. *spit* hehe |
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Date: 4/25/2003 9:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Jesus Freak, When Nikeinlogos says that there is MORE than one antichrist, he is right. However I do believe that that verse is talking about the abomination of desolation, or the antichrist that will apprear at the end times. My personal opinion. |
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Date: 4/25/2003 9:25:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Come on oddy, I got the soft boxing gloves, so neither of us get hurt, PUT EM UP!!! |
Date: 4/25/2003 10:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
Thanxs Oddy  ...Anyway..I agree with Nikelogos. God's Word doesn't teach us that there will be "One Antichrist" who is yet to come. That is a false doctrine. The following, 1 John 2:18 and 2 John 1 tells us that there are MANY antichrist. The MANY antichrist were then and were yet to come. 1 John 22 teaches, 'Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.' In 1 John 4:3 it says 'And EVERY spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God and this is that spirit of antichrist. And in 2 John 1 it says that MANY deceivers ARE entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.' ..This shows that there were MANY even then who were antichrist. So..According to God's definition of who are antichrist.. An antichrist is anyone who does not believe in God, who does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God, etc..Since the word 'anti' means 'against', then an 'anti' christ is anyone who is against Christ. God's Word teaches us that an antichrist is an attitude or a belief someone may have toward Christ, and not a singular person. |
Date: 4/25/2003 5:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 47218
how on earth can you debate that Catholicism is not a Christian faith? right or wrong (and that's a matter of perspective) Catholics do believe that Christ is the son of God and the saviour. This is the basis of Christianity.  |
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Date: 4/25/2003 7:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Mollycat, yes they do at this point, but it was not always so. There are also lots of idol worship in the church still to this day, and that is not what God tells us to do. I dont blame the people that go to that church for this as this is the way they were taught by their priest and such, and for a long time they were told not to read the bible. IF more of them would read the bible for themselves rather than just go in and listen to their priest, then they would see some of the things that they are doing that go against the word of God. AND this GOES for any church any where not just the catholic church , any person in any church MUST read the bible for themselves and ask God for the discernment of it, because as sorry as it is, there are men/women of God that will lead you astray. |
Date: 4/26/2003 10:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 17156
If we all believe in god what should it matter the name we call ourselves? Christians Catholics Baptists Methodists "sp?" If we're all children of god why must we argue over who's right about what, we'll never know. God know's and that should be good enough for us. I don't mean to step on any toes or an beliefs but I can't stand to see all who believe in god fighting over who's right. Peace to all Love and Hugs,  |
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Date: 4/27/2003 12:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
FB: I know what you are saying, what IM saying is that his passage is not refering to the pope, but the antiChrist. Ok, maybe this will clear up what I believe. There are MANY antichrists yes, many who shall remain nameless that I know. HOWEVER, there is also THE AntiChrist, the Antichrist of antichrists, the stuff crust of stuffed crusts... (ok, there's a really cool saying that pizza hut had a while back about a really big pizza, but I can't remember it, sry)... This dude is going to kill God's children in Christ. He's like really evil. You need to obtain a copy of Tim Lahaye's (sp) Revelation Unveiled. THE AntiChrist is like a MAJOR dude in prophecy. He's the ... rider on a white horse in Revelation (I think that one) just after the rapture of the church. He's the little horn in Daniel. He's the "Jesus" of the satanic trinity. Refering to 2 Thess. 2:3-4, I don't believe it is refering to the pope cuz it says MAN not MEN. Jesus warns us of MEN who will decieve in the last days, but this is a mAn. Ok, the answer can be found in the surrounding verses and their context, esp. verse 8: "Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will consume with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming." Revelation 19: 19-20 "Then I saw the beast gathering the kings of the earth and their armies in order to fight against the one sitting on the horse and his army. And the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who did mighty miracles on behalf of the beast--miracles that deceived all who had accepted the mark of the beast and who worshiped his statue. Both the beast and his false prophet were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur." The beast is the antiChrist. See, Rev. 19, and 2 Thess. 2 go together hand in hand to confirm each other... Anyway, I had something else, but can't remember it. I just turned 16 and my memory is already going downhill. Im going to have Alzheimers by the time Im 40.... *sigh* anyway, adios |
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19613 Category:(Debate) Created:(4/23/2003 6:14:00 PM)