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Date: 4/8/2003 2:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 15675
I think they are all based on an original religion long forgot, changed for us to worship our own way, but in their own way their all right (as long as they do good)  |
Date: 4/8/2003 2:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 48689
Well, I am a Christian, but I honestly think that 'MOST' religions come from the Christian idea of Jesus. I personally believe that every word f the bible is truth~ and that I think that those othr religions may have a SPARK of truth~ but not yet the entire focus.  |
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Date: 4/8/2003 2:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 15675
Jennaluv minus islam most of those religions mentioned are OLDER then christianity |
Date: 4/8/2003 2:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 52804
well actually chirstianity came after most other major religions, like judiaism, hinduism, buddhism, i'm not even going to go near all the pagan religions. so if anyone's stealing stories.....But thats besides that point, i personally beleive that it's really all the same story just changed because it was being told by different people at differnet times in different cultures. so of course everyones going to have a different spin on it. now, whether the story is true or not...thats a diferent post all together  -disgruntaled angel- |
Date: 4/8/2003 4:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 24845
My opinion is that I think that they all came from one place. Each story differing in names only. Only because someone else told the story. Kind of like the "telephone game". Researchers and scholers have thought the same thing. That is what I think. Just like urban legends have a basis of truth. They came from one place, then as time went by more and more people told the story, changing one or more things in it. Then it morphed into something entirely diffrent. BUT... with the same element of truth that it started with.  |
Date: 4/8/2003 5:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 43250
Well if you go by the bible, the first two people were Adam and Eve, and everyone came from them. So it would make sence that all religion's sound the same. As they all would have started with Adam and Eve.  |
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Date: 4/8/2003 5:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 15675
MI23 many of the pagan myths had an *adam and eve* I do believe the babolonians are the ones that came to my mind...once again this was PRE CHRISTIANITY |
Date: 4/8/2003 6:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
The Bible speaks of the lost tribes of Israel. It is possible that the different groups you speak of are indeed the lost tribes, which could be the reason they predate christianity. I might add that many of the native tribes of America also shared a spirituality that paralleled Judaism and early Christianity. They even tell the story of the white man in white robes who walked among the tribes sharing with them the secrets of the land that they would one day pass on to other people not of this land, and also telling them of the way of life. Religous scholars have agreed that this white man could have been none other than Christ, because he told his disciples that he had other children elsewhere that he had to see. Those other children had to be the members of the lost tribes, by that time spread throughout the world.  |
Date: 4/8/2003 6:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
THIS is the biggest, THE MAIN reason, that I dumped Christianity. Most all the MYTHICAL stories and god stories PRE-DATE the Christian god, and every story in the Bible can be found in some other religion or god myth. The Christ god is JUST one of many god stories. In those ancient times, it was very popular for gods to have been born of a virgin, and to be crucified, and rose from the dead. There were many flood stories, and variations of many creation stories. There were many Sun gods, and Christ was one of the sun gods. If ANYONE studies ancient gods, of all the different regions; Greek, Egyptian, Indian, Persian, Syrian...etc, they have to conclude that this Christ god is just a compilation of MANY of those god tales.  |
Date: 4/8/2003 6:24:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
thank you to everyone who has replied here. As you can see, this is not an attack on Christianity, or Christians, but trying to debate & question how so many religions share the same mythos.And, yes, many belief systems DO pre-date Christianity. I, too, have heard of a "white man" who walked among the Native People's, sharing message(s) of Love & Tolerance for others. That being was a true "Prince of Peace". The "Twelve Tribe" idea is interesting, but not complete, and again, some of these other stories are much older than the 6,000 year (estimated time of Man on Earth) chronology the Bible gives . And, the creation story, again, would not explain this, since the Bible would also put Adam & Eve at approx. 6.000 years ago. And, what of Adam's first wife, Lilth? Where would she factor in? Even the Jewish people recognize Lilth as Adam's first wife.  |
Date: 4/8/2003 6:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 14780
This is a great post...well worded not to offend anyone.  |
Date: 4/8/2003 7:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
maybe there is a spark of truth but the question is how do we know which one is right?  |
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Date: 4/8/2003 8:03:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
I guess we will all find out in the end..... |
Date: 4/8/2003 9:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 54111
Believe what you must. Research it, bring it down to the ground. Jennaluv I am with you. I believe the Word of God is truth. Let no man deceive you with vain words for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobediance. EPH 5:6  |
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Date: 4/8/2003 10:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 15675
BigDaddi9 it is fine to believe how u do, but take your own advice, u will see that there is no way it is totally from christianity if at all! |
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Date: 4/8/2003 11:29:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
Hi Crazy Queen Kaja! BTW-I love your new taggie! BigDaddi9-I find your "God's-way-or-the-highway" answer intolerant of others. In light of the FACTS, as opposed to blind faith, don't you think you owe it to yourself to at least look at the facts, before making a blanket statement? Remember, to Islam, YOU are the Satan! I would view any religion which claims "exclusive" rights to the truth, with a very cautious eye. That is my opinion. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 7:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 54111
Why would I need to research something when I know what is in my heart? I belive in God. I gave my opinion,. If its blind faith to you so be it. I respect your opinion and research I just don't agree with it. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 7:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
Bigdaddi, Have you been watching the news about the war in Iraq? The Iraqi minister of information has repeatedly been heard saying "Saddam is alive; he is still in control; the Americans have been defeated...etc"?? He is really saying "in his heart" he knows all this to be true; but the FACTS, the REALITY is quite the opposite. Now, I don't have any problem whatsoever with anyone who simply says "I believe; it gives me comfort; and I don't want to know anything else about it; case closed" but for you or anyone to assert that what you "feel or know in your heart" is F A C T S...that is when the discussion or debate comes in. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 7:21:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
Furthurmore, ALL that this author has laid out in this post, as to the nearly identical parallels of the Jesus legend and the Hindu KRISHNA god.....well, HOW can anyone simply just ignore; just blow it off?? HOW can you explain this? IF not to us here; how do you explain it to YOU, yourself? |
Date: 4/9/2003 8:21:00 AM
From Authorid: 54532
Because most religions have the same concept or idea. So there might be some truth to them as jestr said. ~Lilliana~  |
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Date: 4/9/2003 8:33:00 AM
From Authorid: 54111
How can I blow this off? Go to this link. http://www.interlog.com/~mathewa/napt1.htm. Its so easy for someone to go to the internet find something against Jesus Christ and run with it and the non-believers jump on it. Not saying that is what LSG did. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 10:48:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
I went to the site you name. It is misleading and has outright LIES. It talks about the name of Christ not being mentioned in the Vedas, and other historical books. OF COURSE NOT! That is not what I said, nor the author of this post is saying! BUT.....the similarities of the stories is what we ask you to look at and draw your own conclusions; which is what everyone must do. As for your statement "It is easy to go to the internet and find something against Jesus Christ..." is TRUE. There are many sites that lay out the historical evidence AGAINST this mythical "god". CHECK THE FACTS of the material; the authors; study the different mythical god stories, and draw your own conclusions, based upon the records and HISTORY. Ah, but Bigdaddi, you have already said "Why should I research something when I "feel" in my heart?". SO, dear boy, WHY even bother, if your mind is already made up? Kinda silly to pursue discussion and or debate after THAT statement; yes? |
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Date: 4/9/2003 10:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 54111
LOL Thinker, you crack me up. My point exactly I could research till I am black and blue on this World Wide Web to argue this point back and forth. Thank you for quoting me I won't have to say it again. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 11:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
I "crack you up"? IF I were you, I certainly wouldn't be laughing. I pity you. The proverbial bury-head-in-the-sand, I-donno; I-don't-wanna-know-don't-care attitude is precisely WHY the myth flourished for so many years and continues to to this day. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 11:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 54111
I don't need your pity, but you can pray for me and I will do the same for you. amen |
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Date: 4/9/2003 11:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
And, I don't need or want your prayers. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 2:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 15675
BigDaddi it is fine to have the proverbial *blind faith* and its all good but I mean if your going to say "look at the facts" then if we're looking at the facts from a scientific/historical view then your claim is not accurate. I mean yes true the bible says things and what not, but you cant ignore the facts pre bible. As LSG and Warrior Spirit mentioned about the *white man* and the *other tribes* that is interesting, makes me wonder if its a lil proof in the bible its self of pre times... You can believe what you like by faith, but if your going by *known fact* then you can not tell me the bible is fully correct and dint borrow from other religions. I mean the *myths* of Adam and eve, Noahs Ark, Jesus, and even Apocalypse all existed pre christianity with a bit of a different details and different names. Your right, dont trust the internet! Go to your library, read every book you can, you will see... |
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Date: 4/9/2003 3:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Big, I have a question for you. Now, you believe in the Bible, and you have probably read a bit of history on the American Indians. Do you believe the native people of America were pagans, without religion, or do you think they could have been one of teh lost tribes? Also, do you think that Christ did walk among the tribes, teaching to them, or do you feel it is only a story told around the campfires? |
Date: 4/9/2003 5:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 58030
a lot of what i believe in has to do with i believe there was a wondering man, i'm not sure who/what (maybe it was a girl who knows) that makes sense i think we can all agree on that at least, for it is the only way that we could explain this, short of all the major races (is that the correct word, not sure, but ya'll know what i mean) first person, was at a divine conference, and they were all told by (insert higher beings name here) that this what happens, also something that i don't think has been mentioned is the world wide flood that i believe there is scientific evidence/ archeological records of, Atlantis, i was watching a history channel special on it and they said that the greeks, and even people on the other side of the world knew about an "island" that was somewhere that had the characteristics of atlantis, and there is a theory that i really like, and it's that some of them survived on rafts or something and spread the knowledge of atlantis, there was something about that some of them couldn't tell you where they came from but they knew the language, and that the spanish conquerors killed them, *shrugs* just something i thought i'd add...... Ws i believe that someone walked among them, i'm not sure if they are one of the ten lost tribes, and i think that if someone living found the meaning to life and what all we were supposed to be here for and why and all taht and what happens after we leave, i think that the world as we know it would end,  |
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Date: 4/9/2003 5:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 24845
I've read the replys. I think we are all entitled to our beliefs, where ever or however they come to us. I believe what Bigdaddi9 believes. I don't understand how it is that you can down his belief and yet he can't state his belief and defend it. Not without someone getting all defensive and hostile. I don't feel pity for anyone in this discussion. I feel sadness. For so many eyes are closed. Not being opened. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 5:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 15675
Angel2001 it is a debate, I really didnt feel ne1 here is being put down I think we are just debating out opinions, and to ne1 who thought this: I am sorry if I came across as putting you down, I honestly dont mean to! Here I'll open myself to the bullets lol! Heres my *PERSONAL* belief: I believe there are many gods and goddesses, and they made earth and each put their own set of people on the earth. They told their sets of people to worship mainly them and maybe a few other gods and goddesses or maybe only them (like christianity.) They gave these people their beliefs, their culture, and what not... And that to me is why we all have different beliefs yet they all have a hint of similarity...i dont know its just my *BELIEF* lol |
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Date: 4/9/2003 6:03:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
May I point out? Horus of Egypt- The stories of Jesus and Horus are very similar, with Horus even contributing the name of Jesus Christ.-Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable in the mythos ("I and my Father are one"  - The legends of Horus go back thousands of years, and he shares the following in common with Jesus: Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger-, with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.- He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old.- Horus was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer," who becomes "John the Baptist."- He had 12 disciples.- He performed miracles and raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.- He walked on water.- Horus was transfigured on the Mount.- He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.- He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the Messiah, God's Anointed Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, the Word" etc.- He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish ("Ichthys" - Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."- Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long before the Christians duplicated the story.- In fact, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis - the original "Madonna and Child" - and the Vatican itself is built upon the papacy of Mithra-, who shares many qualities with Jesus and who existed as a deity long before the Jesus character was formalized. The Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version it replaced50. Virtually all of the elements of the Catholic ritual, from miter to wafer to water to altar to doxology, are directly taken from earlier pagan mystery religions-these religions pre-date Christianity. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 6:10:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
I believe when BigDaddi made his very first reply & included "Let no man deceive you with vain words for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobediance. EPH 5:6 ", that was a not-so-lightly veiled threat of the Wrath of God". Anyone with a passing familarity with Christianity understands this is a warning of eternal punishment. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 6:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. However, whenever a person condemns another for their belief, then are they truly following the precepts of their chosen religion? I think not. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 6:18:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
If you believe there is an invisible giant man of a particular ethnicity in the sky who is directing everything and who is so hateful he will viciously punish us for challenging his existence - If you believe that this invisible giant man got a 13-year-old virgin girl pregnant, who then gave birth to him as his own son - If you believe that this god person wrote a book - and one book only - If you believe that "confessing the Lord" will instantly remove your sins, thus allowing you to commit more - If you believe that a stone will remove your sins, thus allowing you to commit more - If you believe in vicarious blood-atonement, i.e., that "the Lord died for your sins" and thus you can commit as many as you wish - If you believe that merely believing in such a god person makes you righteous, no matter what atrocities you commit and what hatred and intolerance you carry and spread - If you believe that some "good" god person is going to reward you for killing living, breathing human beings "in his name" - If you believe that going to church, temple, synagogue or mosque, making pilgrimages, or wearing particular clothes or headdresses, makes you a righteous person, even though you don't behave like one otherwise - If you believe that you are special and chosen because of what you believe - If you believe that it is good to mindlessly go along with whatever anyone tells you about the nature of God and religion - If you believe that believing in one God makes you better than and superior to those who don't - You are NOT displaying critical thinking, not using your mind. You are also uneducated as to the world's cultures and history. It is not a sign of great intelligence to blindly believe what someone else has told you is true, especially when such beliefs basically condemn hundreds of millions of other people. Now-I borrowed those words from Acharya S. And, I do not mean to sound insulting of those who do believe. That is not my intention. However-I understand the frustration behind those words. Everyone's spiritual walk IS their own. ~Blessed Be~ if, you find comfort & joy in such....but "blind faith" IS a bad thing....in my opinion. After all, don't you owe it to God (or in my case Goddess & God) to learn the truth? |
Date: 4/9/2003 8:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 15675
*claps* beautiful  ! Good points lol sorry Im to lazy to type out all that but again good points. You know today I went to a website a fellow USMer posted, it was a christ devoted website. I went and read the part quoting the bible about how we are now in the *end times* and i sat and looked at it like *whoa...I cant believe I was ever afraid of this stuff* though thats some peoples cup of tea and thats fine for them... |
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Date: 4/9/2003 8:39:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
I know...once upon a time, I too believed it...it depressed me to think I would never see my grandchildren, because I was SO sure Jesus would return during the 1980's....(My fav book was Hal Linsey's 1984-Countdown to Armageddon). Well, nothing happened. And, I really felt a new awakening....When I caught myself parroting doctrine, instead of thinking for myself (fear of eternal punishment, you know)...I realized how fear had crippled me. Then, I began to learn. I am so sorry I wasted so many years trying to "pray away" my gifts...because I did not understand them. ow that I have embraced them...I am tuly "re-born". Thanks for the comments guys! ) |
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Date: 4/9/2003 8:42:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
I must also say-they are USM'ers, who show their belief in Jesus & the Bible, through their actions! ....Their spirits really shine through. Those people (and they know who they are) I respect. They have found their faith & truth....what a blessing for them! |
Date: 4/9/2003 9:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 15675
Again I agree. Firstborn and some others are prime examples of what a christian *should* be lol in a sense  . I remember being little, and I was 9 or 10 or so and forced to go to Lutheran Bible Day Camp. They told us if we had a cut we could get possessed! No one ever believed me then and i brought this up to my mom awhile go and she said *you never told me that* lol which I had! Just living in fear believing I could be posessed and that the millenuim was the end...ugh those were definitly some years I could live with out |
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Date: 4/9/2003 10:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
I have hears many people of the book state that we are in the end times. Nothing could be furhter from the truth. We are in a time of turmoil, as has been prophecised, in which we will know great wars, one that shake the whole of the Earth. Many will think the end is here, and will prepare accrodingly. But it is not the end, but only the beginning of a new era on Earth, an era where man will seek peace with his fellow man, and finally listen to the lessons that have been there for years awaiting his will to learn them. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 10:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 54111
Warrior, I don't know if the Indians are part of the lost tribes its very well a possiblity. If you have more information please let me know. Angel 2001 thanks for the comments. Of course we christians get critizied of our beliefs but that is okay. LSG I quoted a scripture from the Word of God, something I believe in. So I have blind faith because I believe in it? Cool wiith me. When you make a statement against my religion, then of course being a christian I am going to reply. I really don't understand how my quote could have offended someone who doesn't believe in the bible. But one thing I will say, Jesus Christ is my joy, if I am fool because of it or not a intelligent person then so be it. Sorry I don't meet up to your standards. Question though what should a christian be like? |
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Date: 4/9/2003 11:35:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
I would think a Christian would be like Christ, the "Prince of Peace"....loving, caring, non-judgemental, compassionate, need I continue? |
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Date: 4/9/2003 11:40:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
BigDaddi, so far you quarrelhave been with those who responded to this post....I am debating doctrine......not to be confused with attacking Christianity, or Christians. Now, if the truth, as you know it, where so self-evident, why are there so many differen denominations?If Christians cannot agree with one another, how can you expect non-Christians to do so? It is a historical fact that all the religions have mentioned share a common thread. Yet, instead of debating the topic..you have quarreled with people who responded here. |
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Date: 4/9/2003 11:43:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
BTW-if you want, you may compare my religion (Witch) to any religion of your choose & we can discuss Similarities. I don't mind....I wouldn't take it as an attack either. I am sure there are others who would welcome a chance to share what we know about our beliefs.....Anyway....'night for now! |
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Date: 4/10/2003 3:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Big, it is religous scholars that believe Indians could be part of the lost tribes. I do not criticize christianity as a whole. I do care much for modern organized religon, because it is not much more than organized thought, with the church, not the Bible, setting the doctrine that it's members must live by. Refuse to live by them, and get kicked out of the church. I have seen it happen to people I know. The point I am making, is that with all the religous beliefs out there, and the similiarities between many of them, it is possible that Chrisitianity is not the only right religion. In fact, a lot of the religions out there are far more peaceful in practice than Christianity. |
Date: 4/10/2003 7:03:00 AM
From Authorid: 53500
Ah, the old copy myth thing again. Haven't seen it in awhile. I'll just deal with the main one here, Krishna. All others have been throughly debunked elsewhere. First when dealing with copy cat myths you have to establish that people actually caught wind of any of these stories. It's unlikely that the Jews heard much from India, let alone bought into any of their stories. Burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. A lot of these copy cat myths come from S. Acharya and her books. Sadly though, they are poorly documented, if documented at all. She has Buddha being crucified. Really? Ask any Buddhist and he'll let you know that Buddha died in bed of old age. The problem is people are willing to swallow this material without researching it further. But I guess Christians are the closed mind ones ;-). Krishna. His father was a carpentar. Not a big deal really, that would have been a common job. Birth attended by angels and shepherds and gifts of gold and myrrh and frankincense. Sorry, no substainial evidence for this one. Sounds like there has been some copying going on, only stuff from Christianity has been placed on Hinduism. Raised the dead, performed miracles. Wouldn't ya expect that? This is again too common of thing. Taught in parables? Nice touch of using words to make things appear similar. He told stories probably, but parable teaching is a Jewish thing. Transfigured? Sorry, again he wasn't. Some traditions do have dying in a tree, but this isn't a cross. Between two thieves? Cute touch to make it sound like Christianity. Again, never happened. Ascended to heaven? Acesension is very different in Eastern religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism, not the same thing. Second person in the Trinity? Sorry, Hinduism is polythiesic and has more then just three gods. The Trinity is unique to Christianity. And what of the other things Krishna did. Krishnaic legends portray his playfulness and mischief in positive terms, but his consistent thievery (he stole cheese ROUTINELY from the villagers and lied about it to his mom--he was nicknamed the 'butter-thief' in the literature), his erotic adventures with all the cow-maidens of the village, his tricking the people into idolatrous worship of a mountain--just to irritate the god Indra, and the hiding of the clothes of the village women while they were bathing, and then forcing them to walk naked in front him before he would give the clothes back. Did Jesus copy these things as well? Sorry guys, there's no connection here. Similar doesn't mean same. Take care,  |
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Date: 4/10/2003 7:04:00 AM
From Authorid: 54111
LOL Well like I said you are comparing my religion to something else. I have no quarrel with anybody. I made a statement which included the scripture of God, which in fact pertains to the message. Basically expressing my opinion of the information given. A christian lives by faith. You called it "BLIND FAITH". and then you basically called christians uneducated people with the quote from Acharya S. but didn't mean it to be insulting? Oh then I don't measure up to your and the Queen Crazy Kaja standards of a Christian. A personal attack. But I quarreled? I know a little bit about the Wiccan religion I had a friend who was a witch. I don't judge her nor do she judge me. She has joy with her "God and Goddess" and have I joy with Jesus. |
Date: 4/10/2003 7:52:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
How do we account for similarities in major RELIGIONS (my emphasis)? Simple. ONE TRUTH. Religion is but man's ideas in how to explain God and ways to worship Him. How can anything "pre-date" the "Christian" God? There is but One and He being Omnipresent means He "pre-dates" anything that is of a physical nature in this world. So, other cultures tell a similar story of Jesus Christ? Jesus Christ was foretold about LONG before his physical existence in this world. Who among you can say that others besides those telling of Jesus in the OT did not receive prophecy of his life and use these prophecies to come up with these variations given in this post? When will anybody who does not believe in the "Christian" God ever come up with a post that doesn't USE RELIGION as their reasoning for believing in (insert name of diety here) or as their reasoning for not believing in God altogether? God Bless.  |
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Date: 4/10/2003 11:44:00 AM
From Authorid: 15675
BigDaddi Im sorry, I was not talking to u. I was talking about the right winged people who as I mentioned was telling me stuff like being posessed. Your not one of them, your a good person and you have your belief which you DONT force on others, I wasnt even thinking of you when I wrote that sorry, I would count you among firstborn, I was just trying to say thats who I look up to in any religion. People who treat other people good, and you seem to be one. So sorry that you took it as a personal attack |
Date: 4/10/2003 12:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 61104
I agree with Kaja. If you will look back chritianity actually took alot of its traditions from the pagans.  |
Date: 4/10/2003 5:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
It's probably because every religionw as created by the same animal. It seem logical that wherever in the world ancient people would have lived, they would have shared a need for religion, and in turn, have similiar ideas about their gods. Why shouldn't the God of country X be similiar to the God of Country Y if their people are both trying to define the same thing?  |
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Date: 4/10/2003 6:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
deb we're talking about written documents |
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Date: 4/10/2003 7:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Hey Jestr, I'm game. Let's use documents ONLY. Not any RELIGION'S idea of what these documents purport to mean. I'll bet we can come up with ONE TRUTH that makes sense to everyone's spirituality. Note: I am not betting on everyone agreeing to believe in the "Christian" God as I know that there are people who will not believe absent strictly physical proof. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/10/2003 7:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 15675
Deb I think he meant historical documents, not just *holy* ones... |
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Date: 4/10/2003 7:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
what kaja said |
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Date: 4/11/2003 9:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Whatever. Bring it on. I can reconcile any historical documents with the Bible is what I am saying. do any of you have a response to the first question I posed in my first comment to this post? God Bless. |
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Date: 4/11/2003 9:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Oops. Should have re-read that comment before I referenced it. I am asking for an answer to my third question in my original comment . . . the one that starts out "Who among you . . .?" God Bless. |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 22080
which is? lol im lost sorry |
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Date: 4/11/2003 11:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 15675
Deb I may be a bit confused by your question but Ill do my best: I can say! You are right on that the 'similarities' could be up to that, but then two people come to mind: muhammed and buddha. I know muhammed would be post christianity, but I do believe buddha was pre...(Im not sure so if Im wrong then forgive me.) Also the more I think on it in various mythologies of various cultures they each had a lil hero (i swear their were some females, but ugh its noon I cant think of names lol!) of prophecy but had different stories then Jesus (though again their are those who had similar stories of Jesus)... ugh Im soo sorry I cant think of names but the scandinavian, celtic, and greek myths came to mind... I'll have to bring you names later when im more awake lol! |
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Date: 4/11/2003 11:40:00 AM
From Authorid: 61104
Deb you know if someone came up to you today and said that they heard you God talk to them then everyone would say they were insane. I do not beleive in these so called prphets they are just the pschytsos(SP?) of ancient times. And If you will do some studying and researching paganism dates back further than christianity. And christianity was started with the noblemen not simple folk. The simple folk were forced to be christians. |
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Date: 4/11/2003 12:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Oh, Good God! I AM NOT ARGUING RELIGION. Postdates Christianity??? Again, I ask how can anything "pre-date" the "Christian" God? He was the same before any "Christian" religion was ever thought of AND before any pagan belief was ever espoused. Now, is it because I am considered "insane" the reason why not one of you will touch my questions? Kaja, honey, not knowing this or that leads up to a big fat NOT KNOWING, though I do appreciate you at least TRYING. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/11/2003 3:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
ok i find it odd if the christian "god" has been around for so long but yet we didnt here about him until jesus was old enough to have an intellectual conversation |
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Date: 4/11/2003 4:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Jestr, God is God. Who knows what all measure of names He's been referred to. This post is FULL of them. And your reference to Jesus is in ignorance. Long before Jesus walked this earth as human, God Made himself Known to man, just as He does today. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/11/2003 4:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
but why wasnt christianity known about till jesus walked with man |
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Date: 4/11/2003 5:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Guess everyone has a different concept of what A "GOD" IS. If one is talking about a SUPREME entity; a Supreme God, creator of the Universe, that is one thing (and NO ONE KNOWS about that) but it is quite an all together different thing to talk about the "Christ" god of the Bible and its teachings. THAT god WAS created by MAN...long after , like thousands of years, several other gods; as has been laid out here in this post by LadySpiritGuide. The Christ god WAS made up! Made up , a compilation of several god stories, and there is NO disputing where and HOW it all happened, if one will only get their FACTS, their dates lined up. FACTS! And by FACTS, I do not mean from the Bible, as it is filled with lies, deceit and contradictions. The fact that there are SOOOOOO many different denominations; and no two can ever agree on anything; everyone "interprets" different, and takes only the portions that fits THEIR belief; speaks volumes about a so-called "GOD" who, IF he WERE real, he would have MADE IT SO ABUNDANTLY CLEAR TO ALL; He would have MADE SURE there was undeniable, VERIFIABLE, evidence, so much so that there would be NO mistaking, everything WOULD be self-evident. But NONE of this was done, by this so-called "All knowing" god , the christ of the bible. IMPOSSIBLE. Like George Carlin says "You guys got a good fairytale going on there, but it's not for me". |
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Date: 4/11/2003 7:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Jestr, it just wasn't referred to as THAT prior to Jesus. That doesn't mean "it" didn't exist. And Thinker, I'll give you the challenge since no one else wants to take it. Oh, wait a minute. I ONLY want to use the Bible, you want to use everything but. THAT'S THE DEBATE I AM ISSUING AS A CHALLENGE TO ANYONE. If I can allow for any of the so called "history" in this world to be used by you, would it be so awful of you to allow me The Word? God Bless. |
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Date: 4/11/2003 7:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
And, gee, don't you have preconceived ideas about what God is all about ("IF (H)e WERE real, (H)e WOULD HAVE MADE IT SO ABUNDANTLY CLEAR TO ALL; He would have MADE SURE. . .". Honey, He just isn't subject to YOUR expectations. God Bless. |
Date: 4/11/2003 9:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
here is an excellent link for anyone who has ever been abused by a religion, or someone using religion to victimize someone else ttp://www.voy.com/142570/ |
Date: 4/11/2003 9:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I knew when I scrolled down that this was your post because it was sooooooooo long. So actually I didnt bother to read anything but the heading, and the reason they are so much like the Christian God, is before JESUS, was GOD. Every religion tries to copy from the old scrolls. They did it before the bible was ever put in print and they are still doing it.  |
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Date: 4/11/2003 9:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
DEB< Wow, this is the first time, I've seen you really use CAPS alot. I hear what your saying loud and clear and its funny that NO ONE wants to debate with you?? Go figure. |
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Date: 4/11/2003 9:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
The Bible contains countless errors, contradictions and many documents that are known to be forged. It is not to be trusted. If the bible were actually the word of a DEITY, then we can assume it would be infallible. It would have "the universality of the law of gravitation and the perfection of the arithmetic table" (Joseph Lewis). The bible is far from perfect and lends itself to a whole multitude of interpretations. A PERFECT work would never lead anyone to this conclusion; an arithmetic table, for example, has only one interpretation. The earliest descriptions we have of this Jesus Christ, those of Paul, give no details about where he lived, when he lived, and there are several different places mentioned (bible contradictions). The early testimony does not differ from the various myths floating around in those days. It was only in about 90 C.E. that alleged details about Jesus's life began to materialize and circulate, in the form of Gospel stories. These details contradict one another, from Gospel to Gospel, because each was developed in a seperate region and a seperate sect. The Jesus character got grander and more powerful with each succeeding Gospel. Deb, you're more than welcome to use the bible to TRY to support anything you wish. That is ALL you have to go on, anyway. "Preconceived"?? Please explain yourself. I don't "preconceive" anything. I look at the facts, as they are written; and don't try to make the facts fit the faith/creed. You say he "isn't subject to your expectations"....WHAT is that supposed to mean? We are talking about HISTORICAL truths; verifiable FACTS, and not about what one "feels" or "wants" or "Just-know-in-my-heart" type of stuff, so don't even go there, please. |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Date: 4/9/2003 11:35:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15070 I would think a Christian would be like Christ, the "Prince of Peace"....loving, caring, non-judgemental, compassionate, need I continue? Why is it that people always put that stuff down when a christian defends their beliefs when someone of another faith, continues to make posts of this nature? Actually I was thinking a Wiccan would be more like the goddess, loving caring, non judgemental, compassionate, oh and harm none? Need I continue? |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:10:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
^^^Ignore The Above Comment^^-I will FB insists in trying to bait me here & a other discussion boards. I will continue to ignore her & delete her, on other posts. I do not feel she contributes anything except strife to a debate, or anything else I have written. Call it childish-but I prefer to ignore her, than get draw into the muck. That is my opinion.... BTW-if anyone else enjoys her company fine, she irritates me however. |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:14:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
has anyone else noticed what started out a debate of ideas....has turned into petty backbiting? back to the subject at hand-many of these rligious traditions pre-date Christianity by thousands of years..... |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Sir William Jones, one of the best Christian authorities on Sanscrit literature, and the translator of the "Bhagavad-Gita" says, "That the name of Krishna, and the general outline of his history were long anterior to the birth of Our Saviour, and probably to the time of Homer (950 B.C.) we know very certainly". (Asiatic Researches Vol. I, page 254) |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
yes, Catherine, as a matter of fact, a guy I am seeng, gave me some CD's with disscusions between Swami Bhaktiyedanta, George Harrison, John Lenon, and Yoko Ono. It was recorded September 1969 in England. Bob also gave me a book on Sanscrit literature. I find it facinating. Am I ready for yet another religious conversion, LOL....no way.However, Bob is teaching me about sacred texts, that I would never have ead on my own, ten years ago. I would have thought they were "demonic", yet all I find in thm is love, peace, and helping fellow mankind....and very politically incorrect, the balance needed between Male & Female energy for the balance of the Universe! |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
can you tell I am wearing out my freakn' keyboard yet again......? typos......GRRRRRRRR |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
You made the post I answered your question, apparently my comment cant be debated by you. You stated how you think a christian should act on this post and in real life apparently , so I was just doing the same favor as to what the wiccan creed says about how wiccans, should act. As for being bated on other sites, you know the truth on that, so I wont go there. Perhaps others can see Genesis 1:1 ¶In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Now these words were written on skins and scrolls before they were ever written in the Holy Bible. Therefore many other religions and cults have of course copied them. Learned of the coming of Jesus, and copied it also. I believe in the Lord Jesus, so any of these myths which you have written here of course dont apply to me nor do I give them any account. |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
I've been reading a lot about Ghandi, and his friend, an atheist, GORA. Both of them were very close, and shared an awful lot of the same beliefs, although not a god belief. Martin Luther King went to India to vist Gora, but spoke with his son, and they talked about Ghandi, and MLK invited Gora and his son to visit him in America, but then he was assasinated. Marvelous words of wisdom, Ghandi and Gora, and MLK, all shared alike. |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:49:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
yes, Catherine-BTW-I found another website....I will look for the link, that has the FACTS of the "morality" of Athiests vs. Religious Folks, and it was a real eye-opener. It proved, without question, that one does NOT need religion to be a good, moral, citizen. As for my, I have found my spiritual path.....you have found your comfort zone too. You are smart lady, so I trust you will make your own decisions. I do want to thank those who have been contributing relevant informatin and ideas to this post. You know who you are |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 15675
*smacks head* okay 1) I am sorry still havent got a chance to research and now its almost 1 am lol! I shall do it tommorow . Your right Deb and I do need those names or I look bad with my *not knowing* lol! 2) I am wondering why the christians here seem to take offense when someone debates whatever was posted by a christian. Its a DEBATE we are DEBATING what is said and not trying to insult CHRISTIANITY honestly I think everyone mistook me and LSG's comments about christianity midway down. Firstborn I see noting wrong with your comment on how a good wiccan should act, because your right. I think ANYONE of ANY religion should do their BEST to do GOOD. I really did not mean to say any christian wasnt doing good, for if I did say that then either you guys took it wrong or i really MISSPOKE because I never meant to! *sighs* just because someone DEBATES in a DEBATE their is no reason to take offense to it ! Anyways Thinker I agree about the errors, I remember reading somewhere once that they mistranslated the word *light* for *horns* so until the 1800s Moses had horns in his paintings lol! True or not, I dont have a source with me right now to prove it so if its wrong forgive me... Anyways also I mean its like you cant solely rely on religious text, look at the hisotrical ones too. And if you must rely on religious texts then rely on ALL of them lol! |
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Date: 4/11/2003 10:57:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
it's o.k.....it's almost 2:00am here! LOL, actually the debate was going pretty smooth for a while there. Ignore the whole FB thingy....I do |
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Date: 4/12/2003 6:28:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
LSG, I do understand, and I do have a soft spot in my heart, for those who say, "The Bible says it ; and if it is in the Bible; then it's the truth, case closed". Why? Because that is the way I was for so many years. We can go tit for tat; bring out all sorts of contradictions in the Bible; and ask questions out the kazzoo; but when one wants to believe, they WILL inspite of; that is what faith is. Deb's reference to me when she said "He isn't subject to YOUR expectations"? Sorry, but he IS. As a supposedly , allegedly, GOD, there certainly is nothing that is "godly" or godlike in all the horrible things he supposedly said and or did. If you just take one simple thing, isolate it; ponder it.....really THINK about it, it makes no sense. Let me illustrate here, one simple thing: Today, right now, I am alive, I am right here typing on my keyboard.....I EXIST...right? Ok, when I die, and am buried, and say, 50 to 150 years from now, IF someone wanted to verify my existence, they can check archives, and find my date of birth, birthplace, social security number, date of my death, and so on. THINK ABOUT THIS: A "GOD" who is ALL-KNOWING would have been able to forsee THIS DAY.....NOW....THE FUTURE, see all of us, and He/She would KNOW the questions, the angst, the wonder, the debates, etc, etc,, and would have made sure that all this was laid down , definitively, precisely, and preserved....for ALL TIME, for generations, and NOTHING would be able to destroy it! IT WOULD BE SO! There is no getting around this FACT. None. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 6:42:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
"Again, I ask how can anything "pre-date" the "Christian" God? He was the same before any "Christian" religion was ever thought of AND before any pagan belief was ever espoused." - do you have anyway of backing this up or is this just what you think?  |
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Date: 4/12/2003 6:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
Yeah, ok, about the Morality thing. According to popular understanding of the Gospels, as presented by Evangelicals, Fundamentalists, Catholics, and even mainstream protestant sects, all of us are "sinners" and all are in the same boat before God....be we liars, thieves, murderers or be we otherwise fine upstanding citizens whose ONLY sin was simply to reject this mythical "god" Christ. Yep, it's their job to show us the error of our ways; set us straight, so to speak. This superior attitude, this exclusivism, why I reject Biblical Christianity as a valid moral system. The attitudes of Christian exclusivism differs little from the attitudes inherent in racism. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 7:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
See how we can go round in cirles here? You say, you make a statement that "God always was". WHICH GOD? I have to assume that you are talking about the Biblical Christ god? THAT is the subject of this post; as to the similar gods that PREDATE this christ god. As has been stated before, IF there is ***A***Supreme God, **A*** creator of all; that NO ONE knows. One can only speculate. If you make a strong statement that "God always was", you MUST make it clear as to WHICH god you are talking about, and give good reason or evidence as to why you believe or why you are making such a strong statement. That is the deal; that is the way of debate. You can't make a strong statement and then ask me to disprove that which no one is clear (or even you) on exactly what it is you are talking about. Please don't just say "God always was; and it says so in the Bible, case closed". It doesn't work that way. Come on, state what or WHO it is that you are talking about; WHICH god, and WHY you believe the way YOU do and then we can go from there. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 8:00:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
I have stated it. This is what I have been saying since I first came to this post. There is but ONE GOD. Whatever any one of these "religions" is referring to is THE SAME GOD. NO ONE HAS ANSWERED MY QUESTION. WHO AMONG YOU can say that others besides those foretelling of Jesus in the OT did not receive prophecy of his coming and use that prophecy to come up with these variations as pointed out in this post? And, Thinker, of course you are right when you say the bible "lends itself to a whole multitude of interpretations." SEE THE ABOVE POST. A MULTITUDE. That is why I say I can use it to substantiate ANY HISTORICAL EVIDENCE you want to put up here. Your anger at God not meeting your expectations of Himself is, frankly, pathetic. (And FB, the reason you saw so many caps is because I was quoting Thinker so much God Bless. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 8:10:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
"I have stated it. This is what I have been saying since I first came to this post. There is but ONE GOD. Whatever any one of these "religions" is referring to is THE SAME GOD." - no they're not, different religions have different rules and beliefs. If it was the same god then hes a clown just playing some big game on everyone getting them to have different beliefs. |
Date: 4/12/2003 9:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 36079
I was reading an article in a magazine prob times, well it was talking uf judaism, christianity, and islam. That there is some middle eastern song talking about why these religions fisght, that we all have the same father (abraham and issac) in the Koran I believe it is spelled abrim? Well all these scriptures, the torah, the koran, and the bible talk about the same characters doing pretyy much the same thing. I believe most religons came from Judaism.  |
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Date: 4/12/2003 9:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 36079
What I am trying to say is that the magority of religoins were a cast off of judaism, and the rest were man made. By judaism I mean from Adam and Eve worshipping God from the begining. Then When Jesus came to earth and left even more religoins stemmed off of Christianity. jmho |
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Date: 4/12/2003 9:20:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
All religions are man made, why should judaism be an exception? anyway judaism wasnt the first recorded religion, hinduism pre-dates it |
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Date: 4/12/2003 9:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
No, Deb, what IS "pathetic" is your belief, and your insisting that I am "angry" with a god that I have found no valid reason TO believe in. Answer this: How is it possible to be angry at something one doens't even believe exist? It never ceases to amaze me that people even think that I am angry; I mean, where in all my statements; how does it show "anger"?? A complete mystery. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 9:37:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
"There is but one God"; many of you firmly state. Billions of people make up this planet Earth, and there are MANY belief systems; many gods, and everyone believes that THEIR god is THE God. WHAT makes YOU so sure; so positive, that YOUR god or idea of god....IS the ONE true God?? And a question that I would absolutely, positively LOVE to have answered, is this: Don't you think that if you had been born in India; that most likely you would believe that Krishna was THE TRUE GOD? What about if you were born in Iran, Egypt or Saudi Arabia; would you not believe that Mohammed was THE only God??? |
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Date: 4/12/2003 9:44:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Most religions have people who "know" they're right, their view is worth more than others. ive met far too many of them. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 9:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 22080
thinker you forgot about buddhist*nods* altho it is a philosiphy not a religon |
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Date: 4/12/2003 9:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
How can you be angry at something you don't believe exists? You keep giving Him the possibility of existing with all your "if" statements. And, I'm pretty good at recognizing "anger". And as I am not one to shy away from a question (unlike everyone else here who has not even attempted an answer to my question). So, LOVE THIS: IF (there is that "possibility" again) I were born anywhere else in this world (which, of course, I was not and I am loathe to deal with anything except REALITY -- but I will humor you, here), I would still believe in the SAME GOD. It wouldn't matter what I called HIM! He is the SAME in the USA as He is in India. It is the RELIGIONS of those regions that are giving Him whatever name. He is the SAME BEING regardless of His name. DO you need me to keep explaining that? I am CHALLENGING any of you to explain to me how any religion can form your opinions to such an extent that you cannot OPEN YOUR MINDS. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 10:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
You're "good at recognizing anger"? Deb, I am telling you that I am NOT angry at anything; now if you want to assume or insist, that is your choice; it is not the truth in my case. And your saying that all gods, everybody's god is the same God, makes no sense. If that be the case, then why don't everybody in every religion all over the earth feel that way; why are there wars and squabbles and strife; like the Catholics and the Protestants in Ireland, and the Jews in Israel and the Muslims in Palestine? I use the "IF" word when referring to "IF there were a God, then why.....etc. etc." When referring to the Christians statements and or Bible quotes. You are ASSUMING that I, personally, am allowing for the possibility; and this is not the case here. I don't believe you would still hold the exact same belief you do....IF you were born in India, or Saudi Arabia, or China, etc.. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 10:17:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
"I would still believe in the SAME GOD. It wouldn't matter what I called HIM! He is the SAME in the USA as He is in India. It is the RELIGIONS of those regions that are giving Him whatever name. He is the SAME BEING regardless of His name." - No hes not the same, do you have a problem with religions being different or do you just think they're all the same? because they're NOT. Whether you can accept it or not doesn't change the fact they are not the same. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 10:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
MY mind is open, Deb; WIDE open. Open to anything and everything that one can present in a logical, reasonable, and verifiable sense, to give me some, any valid reason to believe, before I will accept it as truth. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 10:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Kaja, I was not talking to you so much, but yes the creed does also apply as you claim to be wiccan, One should not judge anothers actions until they get the mote out of their own eyes, I see it here way to often. ""RodTodThisIsGod""" I agree with you, nothing can pre-date the Christian God, as He was here from day one of the earth. OF life. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 10:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
"I agree with you, nothing can pre-date the Christian God, as He was here from day one of the earth. OF life." - the same can be said about any ones favourte god if they believe in them. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 10:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Oh Ok, deb, my Bad, I was just scrolling down and not reading lots, but Caps do stand out. "" SmurfPOO:"" I agree with you. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 11:05:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
Deb; One more thing on this "anger" thing you THINK I have: Right now, while on the puter, I have my playlist going, and talking on the phone with my precious little mother, and as we often do, we listen to gospel music, and sing together on the phone. It is a joy to her, and it makes me happy to please her this way. We are talking about my trip coming up, going down to be with her all next week; having a good ole time here. You should see the beautiful angels I have made for her to put on her bedroom walls, and some angels that are holding up a shelf. Life is good, dear, and there is not one teeny tiny smidgen of anger here, I assure you. Now, I will exit this post. LSG, take it away! Peace to all! |
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Date: 4/12/2003 11:20:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
RodTodThisIsGod, there are many gods, but only ONE Creator, God the Father. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 11:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 58030
fb, lsg both of ya'll need to quit, why can't you just agree to disagree, in my opinion both of you are good examples of what christians and wiccans should be, both of you need to look at what you just did, way up there, from the other persons perspective |
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Date: 4/12/2003 12:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Thinker, I have already explained that to you. People are listening to their "religion" in forming their opinion of God (AND their opinions of other religions). Since my first comment on this post I have continually asked anyone who comments to me to KEEP RELIGION OUT OF THEIR THOUGHTS. That is why I exhorted everyone to OPEN THEIR MINDS and not just use whatever religious kick they are on to form their answers for them. (That includes you, author #62188, as you are quite fond of reiterating what I write without acknowledging me personally.) Back to you, Thinker, if you can honestly say you are not angry -- so be it. To reiterate to you something I have said previously on this site, you are not going to believe anything anyone tells you that is their personal proof of God's existence as your spirit (mind) is not in "that" mode and you are not going to feel God's existence as you have too much "excess" baggage in your head regarding His place in your soul (heart), so therefore, I am well in understanding that you need a physical experience for your own self to accept proof of His Existence. Peace to you and your mother. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 2:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 61104
First born I was debating with her(Deb). And yes Paganism does predate christianity. Do a little unbiased redearch and you will find that christianity was spread because of people being threatened that if they did not beleive in hte christian god then they would be executed. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 2:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
goth girl has a very valid point |
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Date: 4/12/2003 7:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Goth girl, re-read my reply, I didnt say that Christianity pre-dates paganism, I said that God the Creator, in which is the same God of the Bible, Father of the LORD JESUS, whom is Gods ONLY begotton son that died for our sins, HE pre-dates paganism, as HE is the great I'm, he was the first and he will be the last. Granted that religionist, misguided as they were, forced many people to at least on the surface, LOOK as if they were Christians. OR yes, many were killed due to some awful people, funny how it was the church of the vatican , catholic that had most of this killing done. Fact is the Vatican wanted NO part of Jesus, only went along with his doctrin because they were losing people. So then they end up killing people that would not profess to be Christian, accused them of being witches. The reason this was done, in my opinion, was so that debates like this would take place and inadvertly the vatican aka catholic church leaders would actually be crushing christianity, like they wanted to in the first place. Oh yes, even satan comes as an angel of light.NOT coming against those that are catholic, but the leaders that have made being a believer in Christ as mockery. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 7:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
I am not here arguing that "paganism" (as some type of a RELIGIOUS concept) didn't pre-date "Christianity" (as some type of a RELIGIOUS concept). Go read my previous comments on this post. You people are all trying to give a name and a "date" to a concept that is OMNIPRESENT in Nature and, therefore, CANNOT be pre-dated by ANYTHING. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 8:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 54111
Well . I got out of this discussion for obvious reasons. Someone took it a little too personally Anyway though I had to reply to Queen Kaja. No,i am sorry for mistakenly thinking you were talking about me, I assumed. I was expressing my opinion on the subject and I am glad to see that you respect my opinion and I respect yours. Just a debate. Firstborn glad to see you are back. I thought I was the only one being ignored here |
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Date: 4/12/2003 9:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Big dad, sorry I havent been around much, its been a working thing with my husband, we have been running to utah and back to nevada for some time now. I expect in the month of may I should be out of commission on the net for a while until I get a new server and phone line but that is the hassle of my husbands job. We live in Utah about six months out of the year and nevada the rest of the time. IT gets crazy especially in april and may and sept and oct when we move again. I'm always going to be here, its just that times I cant , I'm sorry. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 10:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
"RodTodThisIsGod, there are many gods, but only ONE Creator, God the Father." - Yes in christianity thats right but everyone isn't christian, people have different beliefs and different gods and creators. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 10:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
"Goth girl, re-read my reply, I didnt say that Christianity pre-dates paganism, I said that God the Creator, in which is the same God of the Bible, Father of the LORD JESUS, whom is Gods ONLY begotton son that died for our sins, HE pre-dates paganism, as HE is the great I'm, he was the first and he will be the last." - Thats your belief, other religions have different beliefs. I dont see why your belief is more important than theirs. Its faith, you have no proof backing up any of what you're saying. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 10:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Oh rod honey there is lots of proof but would you listen to it? There is but one creator, ever faith knows this, however, what they choose to call that creator is one thing, bottom line is that God is the creator, what YOU want to believe is another. I shall not sit and fight with you about this. I do what God tells me, he tells me to tell everyone about Jesus about the gospel of Jesus and what you think you want to believe is up to you I'm tired of trying to pull people out of the fire. So have a nice day, believe what YOU wish to believe. |
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Date: 4/12/2003 11:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
Firstborn - I don't see why you think your beliefs are more important than every one elses. So you belief it, good for you but your belief isn't the only one so stop pretending it is. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 8:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
It is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of REALITY. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 8:48:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
"It is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of REALITY. God Bless." - What you've said has nothing to do with reality so it comes back to belief. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 10:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Author #62188 as I said on another post where you keep cutting and pasting what I say and leave your judgement of same, make some reasoned arguments and perhaps you'll get a response from me. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 2:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Rod, never said my belief was the ONLY one, however it is the ONLY correct one. History shows us this, experience shows us this and many discoveries of Biblical items, that prove that there were cities , towns and people that are mentioned in the bible in real life. Towns that had never been found before so of course people said, OH the bible is fake, it tells of this town,and as you can see there is NO such town. Then afters hundreds of years, they find artifacts of that town, in the place that God said it was. Read on bible facts and things that have been discovered before you instantly make the conculsion that God and His word and HIS son are wrong. Study for yourself instead of to parot what others say. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 2:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 61104
Firstborn you do not have to tell everyone about jesus everyone already knows the story of Jesus even pagans. So your job id done whether we beleive or not is our choice and my choice is to not beleive that hogwash. You beleive as you want to beleive that is great more power to ya. I cannot beleive that any loving god or goddess would let ther followers suffer for all eternity. In my opinion Christianity teaches to judge and hate where as my religion (Wiccan) teaches to love is our will. Not hatred and not judgement. I am not judgeing you or calling you names or hating you but what you beleive is not what I beleive. I would say other things but that would be against my beleifs. We have had this debate before Firstborn and neither one of us won you beleive as you beleive and that is wonderful as long as you are true to your heart and not just saying things that were programmed into your head. I beleive what I beleive because it is what is and always has been in my heart. I was once catholic but I knew from the start (13 years old) that was not what I beleived in my heart. Now I have found it and I am so much happier than I have ever been. Thank you and blessed be. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 4:34:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
thank you, Goth Girl-your beliefs very closely follow my own. ~Blessed Be~ |
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Date: 4/13/2003 8:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
Firstborn - Prove it your's is the only correct one. Viewing your religion as the only correct one is a very arrogant view. Other religions have evidence too but obviously you want to ignore that. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 8:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
Author #11240 - I listen to alot of people in all sort of religions who "know" their right, it doesn't concern me if you reply or not because you can't get it through your head your belief is just one of millions. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 8:59:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
Guess what? I just came back from another web site & THIS post is being debated over there! LOL...it even makes reference to the fact it was read "at a web site I used to frequent" & used their old USM name! .....hee..hee, I'm flattered! |
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Date: 4/13/2003 9:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 36079
62118 please tell me how do you know for sure that there is another religoin that predates judaism? thinker, If I did not absolutly believe in my God then I would not follow him, beyond the faith I have in him, I have seen many miracles performed in my and many others lives. All those other countries you speak of, who knows, maybe, although with all the missoinary work there are few if any people that have not heard of the word of God. DEB this is acts 4:12 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 10:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 36079
62118, pointing out the proofs is another post, wayyyyyy off topic. Also its not that we being Christian believe our beliefs are more important then all others its that we believe with all our heart, all our mind, and all ouyr soul, and everything else inbetween that our God is the one and only true God, we also want to point out were someone is mistaken becouse we as Christians do not want ANYONE to miss out on blessed life you can have, and not to mention eternity, just becouse someone was honestly mistaken. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 10:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
Look up on hinduism, its believed to be oldest religion that is still in practice. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 10:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
It other words it justifies christians saying their beliefs are right and everyone else is wrong |
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Date: 4/13/2003 10:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
author #36079 firstborn says her beliefs are the only right one, if thats true she needs to prove it otherwise its merely faith. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 10:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 36079
Me and her and others have pointed out many proofs of the Bible and christianity, you can try looking up some of my older posts. All I'm saying is that this is not the place to pull out point for point all the scientific and historical proofs. |
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Date: 4/13/2003 10:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
I still don't think its fair to tell people your religion is the only right one and everyone else is leading false ones. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 12:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
I have a question for those who say their religion is the only correct one. How do you know it is? I practice Native American spirituality. Are you going to tell me my religion is not the correct one? The stories passed down for ages tell of the white man that walked among the tribes teaching the way of life, and giving the knowledge of the land that was to be passed on to peoples not of this land. Who could that white man of so many years ago be? Could it in fact have been Jesus? How does anyone know that Jesus did not go to the lost tribes and teach each of them the way of life? It is known by archeologist that the Indian was here long before the birth of Christ. Until about 1200AD, there is no knowledge of anyone outside of America having contact with the Indians (the Norse). When the conquistadors first came to America, many tribes thought it was the white man in white robes returning, yet they soon found differently. Native American spirituality has many parallels to Judaism and Christianity. How can a group of people who had no contact with early Christians have a religous belief parallel to Christianity? Because they had the same God. They were also taught by Jesus. Until the day comes when judgement is passed on all, no one will know for sure that their religion is the correct one. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 5:36:00 AM
From Authorid: 61104
Thank you warior spirit I agree no one does know until the end whether they are right or wrong. In my opinion as long as the religion teaches to love then it is the right one. Blessed Be |
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Date: 4/14/2003 5:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 36079
Warroir they have actually found african artifacts in among an ancient indian civilizations ruins, enough to believe that there may have been a trade route from Africa. 62118, if we never told people that we believe differently, and believed our God is the one true God, then how are we to witness to people? If we did not then we would not be doing our jobs as Christians which is to be fishers of men. Warrior as far as your question about how do I know? I will refer to the earlier statement I made: If I did not absolutly believe in my God then I would not follow him, beyond the faith I have in him, I have seen many miracles performed in my and many others lives. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 5:56:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Author #36079 - Telling people what you believe is one thing but telling them you're right and they're wrong is selfish. Anyway Christianity isn't the only religion that has miracles. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 7:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 61104
Smurfpoo I would like to say as I said earlier we know your stand point and your job is done but we choose not to beleive and that is our right. Now can you move on. You beleive in one true god I beleive in many. And I also agree with 62118 it is arogant selfish to say that yours is the only "right" religion. Each person beleives theirs is the "right" religion but some people have respect for the fact that not everyone beleives as they do. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 10:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Gothgirl, that is where your wrong, ,my job is NOT done, as long as new people come on usm, as long as there are those here that may not have heard the truth of the Lord Jesus or have really understood it, my job as you put it is not done. Just because YOU have heard and rejected does not mean that others that may be rejecting now, may not just see some word, ,some sentence, that grabs them and makes them see for themselves. It does happen and its happened here on usm. No christianity does not teach us to judge and to hate. It teaches us to have so much love for our fellow man to not let anything stop us from preaching what we deem to be the truth of the lord Jesus. Where as Wiccan, you say teaches you not hate nor judgement, yet we have this hate, this judgement from some of the wiccans on usm everyday. Some that deliberty post things against the Lord, against God, when in fact the creed for a wiccan is to " harm none" So if this is the case then why harm so many seeking their own spiritual path, or those that have found it in the Lord? So many times I've seen wiccans say, you have to find your own spiritual path. Ok, all is good on that, yet for those searching, certain POSTS are actually pulling them away from perhaps finding the chrisitian path, because of that person or persons ,hate for that path. You keep saying things that are programmed into my head. You seem to forget that I was NOT programmed from birth or a young age as some christiains are, I was 35 when I found the lord after much search into many other religions. YOU need to get that kind of thinking out of your head that ALL christians have been programed and that is the only REASON they would choose to remain a christian, as that is NOT the case. I could say the same thing about wiccan, that they are so programmed into *SELF WILL* self gradification, that they cant see beyond there own wants and desires and of course would NOT choose a religion that might stiffle the gradification of SELF. I'm glad your happy. I"m happy, you give your opinions on here, and so do I so whats the problem? |
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Date: 4/14/2003 10:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Rod, I have nothing to prove. Call it arrogant if you will but I checked other religions for over thirty years, I've checked their evidence and found it wanting. Not it was not ignored and you dont know me well enough to assume that it was. BUT the point is that I DID check, have you? |
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Date: 4/14/2003 10:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Warrior Spirit. I'm not talking about religion, OH and by the WAY, glad to see you back. I'm talking about a belief in the Lord JEsus. My ancestors are american Indian , as was my grandmother and my mother. I've talked to enough Indians in this vally to find that most of them do beleive in the lord Jesus, and that it was Jesus that came and spoke to them. I can in no way discount that nor would I try to, as I was not here. However the point being that they DO believe in Jesus, and that is Christianity, rather they go to a church or what have you, they speak about the great white spirit, they speak about Jesus. The belief in the lord Jesus should NOT, I repeat should NOT be a religion but a belief. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 10:54:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Goth girl, you are having a fit because I said, Jesus is the right way, the truth. Yet you tell smurfpoo to move on? YOU have no right to tell her to move on, how about if YOU and your misgotton beliefs move on? Now that just sounds wrong doesnt it. Yep "harm none" |
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Date: 4/14/2003 11:13:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
O.K. Sit back, strap yourself in, because you're about to read ONE LONG COMMENT. I deal in reality. Period. The reality is God Has Given me proof of His Existence. I do not need any religion to conceptualize His Existence for me. In fact there is not a religion out there that conveys the beliefs I have nor the knowledge I possess. That is why I have said over and over that I am not debating religion here. Let's deal in TRUTH. The truth is there is only one way in which everything that has happened in this world to have gone down. This world didn't form one way for the people of India, and another way for the people of Brazil and another way for the Native Americans. Can you all comprehend that? I don't think it is that hard to grasp unless you really are removed from reality. NOW. Various religions have been THOUGHT UP by man to try conceptualize the truth as has been experienced by ALL people. My knowledge is that there is some reality to all of these religions. SOME. I don't try to argue any religion as being better than another. With that said, let's move on to what I term, ways of life: Christianity (a belief in Jesus Christ in which the follower tries to model their life in accordance with his teachings) and Paganism (a non-belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God). I grew up without any religious background whatsoever. I believe in Jesus Christ, once again, because he has shown me himself. Automatically, that makes me a Christian, not a pagan. I do not dispute that pagan traditions have been around longer, nor that Christian religions have borrowed from pagan traditions, or even that one can believe that a person named Jesus Christ existed but considers themself a pagan. All of that is inmaterial in my belief in God. When I see people use the term "the Christian God" it does send cringes up my spine. God does not exist to just Christians. He Exists to us ALL regardless of whether you term Him Allah, Jehovah, or the Great Goombha (;'s at you know who). He Exists even if you don't believe He Exists. Yes, I use the term He as I KNOW that due to the Concordance of His Voice. HE is not a SHE. I have had the privilege of several of the people on this site giving me their reasons (in PM's) as to why they believe in something called a "Goddess", but not one of them has ever claimed to talk to any "being" that claimed for themselves (the "being" such a rank. I have also seen the use of the term "Goddess" with regard to "Mother Earth". What I don't think the people who refer to earth in this manner are thinking is: 1.) while the earth is an entity with an obvious physical nature, and what I believe could be deemed a "soul", there is no thinking portion to the earth, therefore no "spirit", therefore no conceptualitzation as a "being", therefore no need for a title conferring "being" status; and 2.) there is absolutely no need for the existence of this physical earth for a Saved Soul to experience everlasting life. Now with that said, also understand that I have no problem believing that "superhuman" beings once inhabited the earth and that the title of "gods and goddesses" were conferred on them by the ancient peoples of that time. I am talking before "the flood", thousands upon thousands of years ago. I have seen pagans on this site use the "oldness" of their beliefs as the basis of their beliefs. As I have said before on this site, if one is so enthralled with the "old ways" then what are you doing sitting at such a new-fangled contraption as a computer hooked up to the internet? Do you transport yourself by ox-cart? The NEW and EVERLASTING Covenant from God HAS SHOWN himself to plenty of eye-witnesses. His time on earth is chronicled in the Bible. Yes, it is a history book. By God's Word to me it is ALL TRUE. What so many of you are having a hard time with is that you think all these other historical documents are mutually exclusive of the Bible. Why? Are you listening to what a Christian RELIGION tells you the Bible is saying and it just doesn't make sense to your point of reference in this world? GUESS WHAT? No religion is giving me any complete satisfaction as to the truths contained in the Bible, either. That is why I am saying to you that I can reconcile any TRUTHS with the Bible; I don't care what a religion tells me the Bible is supposed to mean. Now, WAAAY up there I answered the question posed by this post with the answer ONE TRUTH. Throughout all these comments, all I can see people arguing is about their religious beliefs. Instead of all the bickering over whose beliefs are right (because I am telling you right now that if your beliefs came from a religion, they are not 100% correct . . . I don't care what religion it is and that INCLUDES all the Christian religions), why don't we explore the One and Only Way this world, its peoples, and its Creator Exists? God Bless. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 11:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Deb claps hand for DEBs reply!! I agree with the majority of what you have said here. I wont go into the things I dont agree with as its not worth the time or effort. Your right religion should not be in this. Many people always say religion or the christian God, and so many times I use those terms myself simply because they are the ones that they seem to understand. But GOD is God, and no not a she, and I agree with your statements about mother earth as its called. The history of the Bible, is one thing I think they need to look into and compare it with scientific fact of today and things that have been discovered. Well got to run. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 2:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 36079
I repect others beliefs, and others rights to have them, but thankfully I also live in a country that grants me the authority to believe as I wish, and voice my opinion if I feel it warranted, if I offend I'm not in there house, in there face, they can just ignore me. I also do not do the religoin thing, I am Christian, follower of God, and believer in the absolute Bible, that is all. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 2:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 36079
I repect others beliefs, and others rights to have them, but thankfully I also live in a country that grants me the authority to believe as I wish, and voice my opinion if I feel it warranted, if I offend I'm not in there house, in there face, they can just ignore me. I also do not do the religoin thing, I am Christian, follower of God, and believer in the absolute Bible, that is all. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 3:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 61104
Firstborn what gives YOU the right to say my beleifs are "misgotten"? You know most Christians I have ever com in contact with are as discriminating as you are. I am not saying your way is wrong and mine is right I am not saying that yours is right and mine is wrong. You are a hypocrate. Christianity is suposed to teach you not to judge others and that is exactly what you are doing. I do not appreciate your attacks and I will no longer feed your ignorant flame. I want to be NO ONE'S "cause". I am tired of this crap. I have nothing that I need to prove to you or anyone else. I was not having a fit then but I am now. I am fed up with this crap on here. People cannot have a religious debate without you coming in and turning it ugly. BACK OFF OF ME!!!!! Thank you and Blessed be!!! |
Date: 4/14/2003 4:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
I would like to comment on part of what Deb said. That is concerning "Mother Earth". Indian tribes do believe in the Great Spirit. There is also a general belief that the Earth is our mother, and we should protect it. Where did this beleif come from? The Indians say that the Great Spirit lifted us up from the dust of the Earth, therefore she is our mother. Genesis 2 also tells us that God formed man from the dust of the Earth. Therefore the term "Mother Earth" is not really that far off. The Earth is out mother, and she is to be protected, for some day our bodies will return to her. God gave man dominion over the animals and the land. Jesus reinforced that dominion to the Indians, and taught them those things to teach others as they came to this land. Unfortunately, today many have forgotten the lessons, including some who are Christian. I am afraid as I go on, I am rambling further beyond the scope of the original issue. That being the case, peace be to you, may the spirits watch over your daily travels. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 5:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Goth Girl, thank you for the opportunity to prove one of my points. Christianity does not teach to "not judge". Jesus judged people all the time. I don't know where you got your information, but if it was from the oft-misused phrase, "Judge not lest ye be judged," please know what that means before you try to use it as some kind of throwback at someone who has every right to form an opinion of you given all the opinions of her you're hurling out there. God Bless. |
Date: 4/14/2003 7:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Gothgirl, God gives me the right to say that. Besides yourself and others during the course of usm have many times told myself and others, that our beliefs are wrong. Of course Christians are like I"m. WE know the truth. WE know God to be truth, we know Jesus to be Gods son.No my dear I'm not a hypocrite and apparently you dont know that much about Christianity. We are not to Judge the actions of others, however we are to judge other things by the word of God. Jn 4: Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment,1Tm:6:3: If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;1Tm:6:4: He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,2Jn:1  : Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.2Jn:1:10: If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: AND MOST OF ALL """2Tm:4 : Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2Tm:4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.""" So no hon, I'm doing JUST as God tells me to do. It amazes me that when one is in a debate, they all ways scream attacks. I'm not attacking you, just merely making comments according to your comments. Like I heard you say many times if you cant stand the heat stay out of debate. Stop being so sensitive. If your fed up with things on usm, you have the choice to stay or to go. People can have any kind of religiouse debate, they only hate to see me arrive on the scene because I find flaws in their thinking. Are you having second doubts about your beliefs? Are you finding them wanting? Your words are turning it ugly, making it into an attack that is just not there. You attack smurfpoo, yet when told the same thing, you have a hissy fit. LOL, come on hon, no one is attacking you. Just showing you that what is good for you to say, is good for the rest of us to say. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 7:44:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
actually, the only time I feel "attacked", is when Christians bring up the "eternal"-punishment angle. Because, that is a psycological threat. Or, when someone tries to discredit my replies, by implying I don't know what I believe.....LOL.The point here is: All the aove religions I mentioned, have common threads.....you don't have to reach for them, either...they are there. |
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Date: 4/14/2003 7:48:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
and FB-will all due respect, everything you said to GothGirl-could be said to you, me, or anyone else who gets passionate (fiery) in debate. There is a big diference between "implied" attacks (people being thin-skinned & testy) & real attacks.........we should attack the issues, not each other.... |
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Date: 4/14/2003 11:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
LSG, I totally agree and that is the point I was trying to get across, that she should not attack smurfpoo and tell her to *move on*. It was not her place to tell her that as when a debate is posted, its free to anyone that chooses to give their opinion. |
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Date: 4/15/2003 2:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Author 11240 How can this "One God" be the same in all religions when sometimes he teachs reincarntion and some religions he doesn't? |
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Date: 4/15/2003 2:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Firstborn But its ok for you to tell people their beliefs are wrong? oh yes ofcourse your beloved god tells you to. Not everything you know is true, so by saying your religion is truth you're actually saying you believe it to be true. |
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Date: 4/15/2003 6:34:00 AM
From Authorid: 61104
First of all I would like to say that christianity is suposed to teach not to judge. "Judge not lest ye be judged" Ever heard of that on Deb. I was Christian at one time I do know a little about it. And Firstborn I have never in my life said that christian beleifs were wrong. I would like you to give me an exact post I replied to that said you or any other christian's beleifs were wrong. If you have proof of something fine but I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT THE CHRISTIAN BELEIFS WERE WRONG i SAID I DID NOT BELEIVE THEM. Thank you LSG and 62118 I appreciate that. At least someone here can see how firstborn gets. But anyway. Thank you and as I have said Firstborn give me an exact reference where I have said that christianity is wrong. Never have I typed or spoken those words. And I resent the fact that you say I have. |
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Date: 4/15/2003 6:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 61104
And also Firstborn NO I am not having doubts in my beleifs or finding them wanting. If anything else you are making me go more and more into the wiccan direction. I love my God and Goddess and I love my Wiccan Beleifs. |
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Date: 4/15/2003 8:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Warrior Spirit, I have a question. Does the Native American's term "Mother Earth" confer "Goddess" status on earth? Author #62118, God is not teaching that, RELIGION is. Goth Girl, what I said to you was to understand the term you are using, and apparently you do not: "Judge not lest ye be judged," means if you are going to pronounce judgements (give your opinion) on someone, then you can surely expect them to pronounce judgement (give their opinion) on you. Christianity (the way of life, not any RELIGION) teaches ME to strive to be Christ-like, and as has been pointed out, Jesus didn't shy away from pronouncing judgements (giving out his opinion). God Bless. |
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Date: 4/15/2003 8:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Deb, we do not see the Earth as a goddess, but we do hold the Earth sacred, as the mother from which were raised. As for your comments on judging, the Bible does tell us not to judge. According to the KJV Study Bible, we are not to judge the inner motivers of others. Neither are we to use ourselves as the standard of judgement. Christ also tells us that he does not judge as man judges, that he judges based on one's heart. None of us are capable of knowing what is in one's heart, only the Great Spirit knows that. To be honest, I have often wondered why people wish to debate religion, and which is right and which is wrong. When one debates religion, they are not debating proven facts, but only their individual beliefs, or the beliefs of a larger group. If one looks up "belief", there are several references to the word. One reference is "faith", which is believing something to be true, without given proof. Anyone can say that another person's religion is wrong based on the Bible, Koran, Talmud, or any other religous book. I can say a religion is wrong because it does not teach it's followers to respect the Earth and all that is on it. Who of us is right? According to our personal beliefs, all of us are right, and then again, maybe none. To be honest, when one debates one religion over another, then it is in fact a personal attack, since you are attacking the core beliefs of the other person. One has to remember it is our beleifs that make us the person we are. They help to make us each unique, and they also give us guidance for living. If a person is comfortable with their belief, and dos not hurt others, then that is what matters. |
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Date: 4/16/2003 1:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
#11240 - Wrong, many people have claimed their God has made reference to reincarnation. If you are talking about truth like you said before, why are you now saying its your opinion? can't you make up your mind? |
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Date: 4/16/2003 9:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 61104
YAYAY!!! Well said Warrior Spirit I agree with you. That is the point I have been trying to get across but I guess I have been going about it the wrong way. Again very well said!! Blesed be!! |
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Date: 4/16/2003 2:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
WS, if you read my comments on this post you will notice that I am not here claiming one "religious" belief is better, right, the only one, etc. What I am saying is I can only deal in One Truth, meaning there can only be one way in which our world was created, humans were created, and how God's Hand factors in it All. Sure, there are a lot of different stories out there about all of that, but I can isolate myself from "which story to believe", and understand that if I deal strictly in reality, I will understand there can be only One Way. And that has nothing to do with religion. On to the subject of judgements. We all judge. Don't fool yourself by saying you don't. Your comment was full of judgements which in the simplest sense, means your opinions. What the Bible says is no person can Judge whether another will experience a Saved Soul. That is the providence of Our Judge. The Bible does tell us that it is probably wise to keep our judgments to ourselves (ref. all the scripture relating to loose tongues), but I would ask what do you do when called to serve on a jury? Or when someone ASKS for your opinion? Yes, the manner and method of giving your opinion may sound non-judgmental. Phrasing and tone of voice (punctuation in this mode) will also affect whether someone is being judgemental. And, certainly, it is the bigger person who can not go tit-for-tat with someone when the other is being judgemental. But my reading of the Bible or my understanding of Jesus as a human does not tell me that God says: JUDGE NOT, PERIOD. God made us humans and as humans these human brains that we all are supposed to have FORM OPINIONS. Now to author 62118, if you wish to pose a more legible question to me (or if the above answered whatever it was you were asking make same clear in your next comment. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/16/2003 5:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Deb, if you read my comment, you will see that I said we are not to judge one's inner motives. When called upon to serve on a jury, we do not judge a person by their motives, but by their actions. Even then, we only pass judgement after ALL evidence has been presented. It is necessary to make judgements in our every day life, but once again, we are not to use ourself as the standard by which we judge. Also, as to your opening statement, you are saying that the way you believe is the only true way. The point is, none of us will know which way is the true way, until the day we meet our maker. We may even find out that those who we called our enemy on Earth are right there beside us in the spirit world. Regardless of who is right or wrong, I too know that my beleifs are right, because I have seen the power of my beliefs revealed to me. |
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Date: 4/16/2003 5:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Warrior Spirit, one's inner motives are AVAILABLE to ONLY ONE (and I am sure not claiming to be That I fully understand what you are saying: He Will Judge the Unseen. The comments that brought this subject to this post did not deal with "inner motives"; they are referring to what is in black and white in front of us all. And of course we are not to use ourselves as the standard of judgement, but neither are we to use any "religion's" standard of judgement. How I judge is to put myself in the other person's shoes. I am not arguing with you, BTW, and I don't know how you are getting to the point where you think I say my beliefs are "the only true way". What I am saying is that there can only be One True Way on the subjects of the earth's creation, human creation and His Hand in it All. And waaay up there I asked: Why don't we all explore that instead of fighting over religion? Can you tell me what I believe on those subjects? I really would like to know WHAT I BELIEVE. I haven't come to a definitive belief. I have ideas, I have postulations; I know God didn't make the Native American people using a method different than the way He made Indians. That much I know. If I am not making myself clear on what it is I am saying here, then all you have to do is ask! Oh, and please beg my pardon, WS. I neglected to thank you for answering the question I posed to you re: Mother Earth. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/16/2003 6:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
And, Author 62118, I beg your pardon, too. I see you addressed another comment to me I missed. What I think God "teaches" people is termed INCARNATION. He incarnates a portion of Himself into every human being. When a person dies, their soul goes immediately back to Him. Then some portion of that soul may be sent (incarnated) into another. To illustrate, let's say He has given me the "DFA" portions of His Soul and I eventually die. Then along comes you and He gives you portion "BFD" of His Soul. You and I would share the "F" and the "D", but it is not exactly the same. However, I think that some people are able to (for lack of a better word) "relive" in their minds (spirits) some of the experiences that PORTIONS of their souls previously lived. But it is not REINCARNATION, as that would be the exact same soul being reused. And to try to answer your other question: The reality is that Jesus was not shy in giving out his opinion. God Bless. |
Date: 4/16/2003 10:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 32806
I read with interest many of the opening comments to this post and to the end I find Warrior Spirits one of the few voices of reason and sense along with the author, as others left (The Thinker). References, by those who follow christian beliefs, that the rest of us will burn in hell for eternity, simply wont convince anyone of the validity of the claims behind their beliefs, nor will it make them live in fear as they simply don't share that belief. .....Let no man deceive you with vain words for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobediance. EPH 5:6 (Bigdaddi9) I'm tired of trying to pull people out of the fire. (firstborn) For me Debs grasped the nub of the argument, THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH, yet unlike her I do not believe it lies in any religion/fantasy. Rather religions and beliefs are merely an individuals perspective of truth. Why do any of you NEED a creator so much? Does the concept of infinite time and universes so confound you that you need a creator being to give you some kind of perspective on life and its existance? Infinite time and infinite universes give scope for life as we know it to exist by shear randomness of chance. Coincidence that was inevitable as infinite time gives rise to infinite possibilities. This (and I stress THIS) universe formed, and in it life exists, I see no necessity to impose a creator being somewhere back in time to "create" it. You can say god/a creator has always existed, but i can say in response, so has some form of matter, time and some form of universe, although it is presently beyond our capabilty to figure out what form previous universes could have taken, there has always been something and if you wish to put your creator at the beginning of it all then your creator can never have existed because there has ALWAYS BEEN EXISTANCE of matter and time. There was no "beginning", all there is, is a limit of what we can see and understand.  |
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Date: 4/16/2003 11:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 32806
Ooops got a bit away from the question, prob this is just for the author as I late in reading this. I would say the similarities arise from the fact that all are interpreting one truth, maybe each in their own way as they look at life, or maybe its from a much older source that predates any recorded history available to the majority of us right now. I favour the later and think religion is an inaccurate rendition of ancient truths and philosophies. for example, an adavanced culture with advanced technologies that were able to see back into the beginnings of the universe could have had their facts distorted over time after their demise as their knowledge faded into distant memory, finally becoming myth and legend, gaps in the lost knowledge were filled in by inserting a god that did this and that because the knowledge to explain it was not available anymore. Hence a creation story with a being that could "create from nothing" to explain what couldnt be explained by a faded knowledge left from before. |
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Date: 4/17/2003 5:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Sagi 10, that was indeed a compliment, although I beg to differ with your religion/fantasy allocation. My words come from my knowledge (what I have experienced), my beliefs (strongly held convictions), and my thinking (wonderings in my mind of various things). My desire to understand Our Creator does not include wondering from whence He Came: It has to do with from whence WE (humans) came to be on this earth and the resultant infiniteness of living this life on earth in body, mind and heart, with the ability to live on with a spirit's salvation in a resurrected body as a Saved Soul. Peace and God Bless. |
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Date: 4/17/2003 6:17:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
#11240 - Edgar Cayce had a similar belief to yours although the soul only returned to God and became part of God once it had matured and learnt all the lessons, which required reincarntion as one life time was not enough. |
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Date: 4/17/2003 8:45:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
I am currently reading a facinating book: SECTS,CULTS, & ALTERNATIVE RELIGIONS-A WORLD SURVEY AND SOURCEBOOK, by David V. Barrett (son of the late Rev. Theodore L. Barrett (1910-93). I took the book out of the local library after I started this post. It is a very well-written, non-confrontational look at the developments of religions from the beginning of recorded history. It is not hard to see the "hows" & "whys" things developed as they did. I would encourage anyone to read it, as a sourcebook. Of curse, as the author points out, no book can come up with a complete picture. However, I would like to share , what I feel, is an important quote "There is principle which is a buffer against any information, which is proof against all argument and which does not fail to keep eey human being in constant ignorance.This principle is to condemn before researching"......Herbert Spencer (1820-1903). To my critic who messaged me in private , and accussed me of never being a "real" Christian, because of how easy it was for me to walk away from God, what I can say is this, I was a Fundamentalist Christian for 20 years. My "change" did not happen overnight. But, once I gave myself permission to ovecome my "fear" of "offending", or "displeasing" God (and thereby serving Satan), I began to grow, as I researched and looked for my truth. If someone finds their "Truth" in Christianity & it is their answer, ~Blessed Be!~ you have found your path. And, go in peace. But there is a difference in "knowing" something, and knowing the truth. That the Earth, orbits the sun, is a "truth". That a book tells the story of God, is a belief. The only way you, anyone, will "know" if the book is the "true", will come at a later time. |
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Date: 4/17/2003 8:48:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
I "believe" that there are many. may paths to a divine creator(s). I know there are too many historical correlations between religions, to dismiss those similarities out-of-hand, as heresy. |
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Date: 4/17/2003 8:50:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
I also want to thank every single person who has replied here. Everyone's opinion has value here. nd there have been some very enlightening replies. |
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Date: 4/18/2003 8:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
LSG, I found it interesting that the quote you used talked of ignorance. While I was still in the service, an shortly after I had begun down the path followed by my ancestors on spirituality, I had several talks with our unit chaplains on the topic of American Indian spirituality. When I first broached the subject to them, I asked their opinions of Indian spirituality. Their first answer was that the Indian practices were a form of paganism. I then began telling them of some of the stories and legends that had been passed down through the ages, and explaining to them what some of the practices of the Indians actually were. As time went on, and we had further discussions, they began to see that the beliefs they had about Indian spirituality were founded in their ignorance of the subject. One of the chaplians even went as far as to read subject matter on the Indian practices, and we were soon having some excellent talks on the subject. I believe one of the biggest problems whenever the topic turns to religion is that people refuse to look at the realities of other religons, and take the lessons they have learned from their religion as total truth. I am reminded of a quote of ages ago by Sogoyewapha "Red Jacket", of the Senaca indian tribe. "Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" If one looks at a list of modern Christian religions, they quickly find that their are numerous fundamental beliefs, and even within various denominations, there are differences in beleifs. Case in point, among the Baptist, you have Mainstream Baptist, Southern Baptist, Primitve Baptist, and several others. The Pentacostals are also divided in their beleifs, and I have even seen a split of some Pentacostal church congregations because their are differences of belief even among members of individual churches. Religon will always be a subject that will cause differing opinions, and even anger and fervor among those who discuss it. The day will eventually come when we will all know peace, and a person's religous beleifs will not be a subject of debate. We will learn to accept all people not based on their beleifs, but on the deeds they do. Either that, or we will surely destroy each other in the name of religions. Peace be with you. |
Date: 4/18/2003 8:16:00 AM
From Authorid: 25828
i think you're right..all were 'divinely' inspired..there is no one religion..only one god..and many paths to him/her/it.  |
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Date: 4/18/2003 7:59:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
thank you, Warrior Spirit & Heather.....indeed, as this is the time of Ostara, Passover, Easter, and there is the Muslim holiday, (my apologies to my Muslim friends, I cannot remember the name of it) we all look to our belief systems & evaluate our relationship with God/Goddess/It/Whomever...and our place in the big picture. No one will have the answers, until the end. I am finding out that up until very recently, there were many who believed Jews "ate" babies, (in the 20th century yet!!!), Catholics murdered people and buried them beneath the Vatican, and the list goes on.....because some people did not take the time to look carefully at the other person, and find out the truth! How can it be that there was a time Angelo's thought of Native Americans as Savages???? A people who not only created great beauty with beads, and bits of leather, but a people among whom rape & murder were all but unheard of????? A people who were so attached to the land, they "asked" a buffalo, or other game "for permission" to take them & them celebrated the sacrifice of their "brother"? (the buffalo). These were savages? They did not fight among themself for land, the land did not belong to an individual, it belonged to itself! Jesus did not teach..."run out & buy land", he taught "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR". He taught this was the first, and greatest commandment! It took Christianity almost 300 years to agree on it's creeds. Even the apostles could not agree among themselves! Everyone DOES an idea of the "Truth" within us all. I repeat only at the end, will we all know. But there are too many similarities to be ignored. |
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Date: 4/18/2003 8:05:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
and, this applies to "Pagans" too....I have been told there are Witches & Wiccans here at USM who are "embarassed" by me, because I "do not represent what they believe", and I am not a "real" Witch. Now, I have not gotten any IM's like that, but, I am finding my own spiritual path. I never claimed to have the answers. I am a student, but I am also a teacher! I will say "this is what I believe".....but I made my decision based on learning. Many of these ideas pre-date Christianity but 2,000 years or more. That is a fact. Peace, and everyone enjoy their holiday....we'll pick this debate up later! |
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Date: 4/23/2003 9:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 54707
Ok, yea. I just spent an hour reading all the posts, and thinking of exactly what to say, so here i go. I am Wiccan, i will put that out in the open now. I've been guided by my mom since i was 13, I am now 17. I belive, and have always belived (even when i was Catholic/Christian) that there is no one right way. I belive that every religion leads to the same place. I don't care which was first. I dont care which god is the oldest. i dont care which God can beat up which God. All i want all of you to realize is that by slandering other religions you get nothing. I would never put down another religion, thats just the way i was brought up. Whichever religion a person choses, which ever road they go down; it is there own decision. I am Wiccan because it just feels right. I look to the God and Goddess for advice and to help me through tough times, just as any Christian prays to their god or Jesus for the same things. I sit infront of my Alter with pride and joy, just as a christian feels pride and joy when the are in a church. I've read all of the posts, and i feel that Deb and FirstBorn went around things the wrong way. You DID attack, you did put down, you did slander....and for what? What will any of the bickering prove? I've been taught to accept and move on. Why dont You accept that others have different views and ideas? Is it that hard? And you know what? Who knows, maybe there is only "One God" and we all worship this being in different ways. What would the difference be than if there were more than one. There's not one way to do anything. Why can't people acccept that? -AcidStorm  |
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Date: 4/24/2003 8:24:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
thank you Acid Storm- (and welcome, by-the-way! >. It is remarkable that you have come to such an understanding at 17 years of age. What a wonderful tribute to your Mother's teachings! What people fail to realize is this...religious experience(s) are very real to the people who experience them. God(dess) is SO beyond the human mind, to fully understand.....maybe the GOD(ESS), the GREAT "I AM", IS a combination of demi-Gods, or simply one whole huge "ONLY" God.....first of all, we will not know, till we get to the other side. I have had religious experiences, as a Christian AND A Pagan.....they are ALL real, to me. There are religious dogma(s) that dictates, "My way......or doom!". Yet, there seems to be a basic thread....a fundamental truth, to it all. Thank you & welcome to USM!)O( |
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Date: 4/26/2003 11:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
If there is not a "right" way then how can anybody be "wrong"? Inconsistency in one's stances is, IMHO, a real stumbling block in putting a "belief" into practice. What I said from COMMENT ONE on this post was there can only be One Truth (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH ONE RELIGION) and see that Heather, LSG, and AcidStorm all give that credence, yet I keep seeing the "we will not know 'til the end" comment. I am not to be included in that "we". I DO KNOW. I know that God Exists, that He is a Male Figure, that Jesus Christ exists, that he is resurrected from the dead, and I know these things because I have experienced these truths and NOT BECAUSE any religion told me diddly squat. I have invited people on this site for years to share with us all their experiences that have led them to their belief in whatever diety they profess a belief in and NOT ONCE has anybody ever told me of experiencing a manifestation of any kind of a female "being" which held herself out to be something called "Goddess". IF YOU HAVE, then let us all know that! When Christians come here and WITNESS as to our experiences, somehow, some way, RELIGION gets all tangled up in the conversation and people jump to "side" with those of the same "religious" leanings. And I really do have to make reference to the whole "judgement" subject again. I believe Judgement (with a capital "J" is going to come to all of us whether you judge (put forth your opinion) or not. To apply the quote of "Judge not lest ye be judged" to the spirit's Judgement doesn't even make sense. Using that as your basis for not forming an opinion in the hopes of not facing Judgement belies the function of "The Judge"! And anyone opining about the Judgement of another isn't going to make their judgement (opinion) about that person that person's Judgement! But, they are entitled to their opinion, and if by stating that opinion they get judged right back (e.g., being called a hypocrite) then the original judger/opinion giver (in my judgement HAS TO HAVE EXPECTED that. I bring this up again as what I see is that a "religious" teaching can become so distorted as to not make any sense to the point that ONE'S OWN THINKING doesn't even come into play but rather the "religious" teaching becomes the forming principle instead of plain old common sense. Now, having being judged a slanderer I will respond with the absolute defense to slander which is called THE TRUTH. When one's reality is shared by God (Who Sees, Hears, Discerns ALL), THAT can only be called THE TRUTH. Can any one of you come here and judge me as not telling the truth? And if you are responding to this challenge, be sure to bring in your knowledge (life experiences) and know that whether you are telling the truth, as opposed to merely projecting your perceptions of the truth, IS going to factor in at your Judgement (just as it will mine. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/26/2003 11:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
11240 - Theres many people who know the truth, why are you more important than them? I keep seeing you go on and on about you knowing the wonderful truth, I see others do the same thing and your truth is nothing like theirs and vice versa. You need to get over yourself. |
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Date: 4/27/2003 1:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Tell me how does your truth differ from faith? |
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Date: 4/27/2003 12:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
RT'd: "My" truth is not exclusive to me. I know other people have experienced situations like mine. And who says "my" truth is mutually exclusive of others'? That is what I am trying to get at here: What could be the One Truth that is common to all? For the answer to your second comment you are free to go read about it in the first three stories I posted at this site. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/28/2003 1:25:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
You do not know the one truth common to all, you haven't lived everyones life on earth. I read one of your stories, it still amounts to faith, many people have had similar experiences and say they know the truth. I dont know why yours should over rule theirs. |
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Date: 4/28/2003 1:35:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
You have said some parts of beliefs are wrong, You asked 'And who says "my" truth is mutually exclusive of others' so to answer your question, you did. |
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Date: 4/28/2003 2:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
RT'd: If someone has had similar experiences to mine wouldn't that amount to a common truth? I feel you, like others before you, have come here to USM as a young pup, found a new toy to play with (debate), and like young pups do, chase your tail around and around (keep saying the same things over and over). And, me, I can get some amusement over watching young pups chase their tails, but at this point in time this -itch is through being amused by tail chasing and am wondering if you have any new tricks (something of substance to argue). BTW, I do not necessarily equate someone's "beliefs" with what God Sees, Hears, Discerns, aka, THE TRUTH. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/28/2003 8:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 54707
I'm not to sure....seeing as i only wrote my post, then read it over after reading Debs latest comments. But i dont remember writing or seeing me post that there is only one truth. I said there may be only 1 God. And that is much different. Because there are many different truths. And there are many different Ideas twords those truths. And i guess i have to repeat myself. Noone can be wrong, everyone has their own reasons for beliveing what they belive. There's no sense fighting baout it. So Deb, i hope that your religion does bring you true happiness some day. Blessed be. -AcidStorm |
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Date: 4/29/2003 12:44:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
AcidStorm, my reference was derived from your first comment -- in one breath saying "there is no one right way" and in the next stating that "Deb and Firstborn went around things the wrong way". Furthermore, I said that you had given credence to the idea, not that you agreed with it. Finally, if you REALLY HAVE read my comments, all I can say is that you show the heighth of ignorance (the state of ignoring) in wishing me that my RELIGION brings me happiness. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/29/2003 1:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Deb that was pathetic, if you're going to change the subject try better next time. If thats the best you can do I guess you're all out of tricks or never had any to begin with. This TRUTH you claim to know is nothing but your belief, I don't know why you just dont get over it. |
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Date: 4/29/2003 9:40:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
RT'd: I didn't change the subject; I asked you to come up with something of substance to argue and here you are, yet again, arguing about the meaning of words as far as I can tell because you're really not saying anything. And it is firmly rooted in my belief not to LIE which is what, in essence, you are telling me to do by not acknowledging the TRUTH. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/29/2003 7:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 54707
Well you know Deb...I'm sorry. I'm sorry for ever thinking you would be happy with anything. You seem to be a ver disgruntaled person. I wished you happiness, but that wasn't enough. What will be enough to you. I said im happy with what i belive, and you are happy with what you belive. Why can't that be enough? Why must you drag this on? -AcidStorm |
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Date: 4/29/2003 7:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
o.k.....DEB, enough. You have used my post for your private rant long enough. See the post at the top of debate? The one from Radman & Ginger? Let me point out a few things to you...1) stop talking ABOUT me, here and in other posts, and start talking TO me. I am very approachable, and willing to listen to reason. 2) you are staring to come off as slightly irrational here. Your anger & statements are really disproportionate to the discussion at hand, and the topic in question. 3) FB and I have a long hisory togather, she has NOTHING to do with this post, and my comments are directed to the post, not one person. 4) do not ASSUME to know my motives on anything. You do not know me well enough to know my motives. IF someone else is giving you information on me, does that mean you are getting yourself upset & worked-up based on gossip? From what had always seeme a pretty-level headed person (yourself) that is the only explaination I can find for your recient behavor. Now-this is the first I have spoken up to address this....you need to chill out, or take a "time-out". Look at yourself, you are behaving badly & setting a poor example for any group. BTW-I don't need to "steal" a lesson from anyone's playbook, as always try to take the high road, so accusing me of "stealing the lead" from someone else, is silly. I hope yu find hapiness in your faith.....~Peace~ |
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Date: 4/30/2003 1:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Deb - what have you come up with? besides labeling your ideas and belief as truth? you have a strange definiton of truth. anything you experience is truth, anything someone else experiences that happens to be different they're wrong. |
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Date: 4/30/2003 1:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Are you sure this is the post you mean to say that at LSG? "Private rant"? I'm answering comments and questions posed to me. Answering questions! Oh, the irony . . . it really has me laughing. Where do you people get off that I am angry? I think I show a lot of patience in answering the same questions over and over again. I referenced you one time in my comments to this post, and that was merely to reiterate something you, yourself, said. Again I ask, are you sure this is the post you want to make that ^^^^ comment at? I was asked by the author of that "other post" not to comment there any more, so I will just say here that I thought I addressed my remarks fairly clearly to you (that'd be you, LSG, right? I mean, no one else on this site uses those initials, do they?). My comments were directed at all those participating in that "debate" including FB. And go ahead and judge me as "staring (sic) to come off as irrational". I judged you, I can certainly expect you to come back and judge me (see all my above comments that mention judging/judgements/opinions. Inner motives? Again, Warrior Spirit and I hashed out that subject in some of the above comments. Steal? I am pleading total ignorance as to what you are referencing there. And is that why George and Ginger's post has stayed up on the top of the debate page all this time? They're waiting for me to come in there and give it (debate guidelines) my stamp of approval:0 ~~Dear God, thank you for giving me such a wonderful sense of humor no matter how quirky it my seem. God! I love the appreciation for irony that comes straight from Your Spirit!~~ Oh, now, if I could only stop laughing. . . God Bless. |
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Date: 4/30/2003 1:30:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Oh, jeez, I see I have to answer another question. (Please, God, Help me to stop laughing long enough to type this RT'd, I keep asking for "anything someone else experiences" to be shared with us, and STILL, after the umpteenth time of saying that, you've given me nothing of substance to argue (debate with you. Do you have an experience to share? Did I not ask you that directly enough in any of the above comments? God Bless. |
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Date: 4/30/2003 3:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Instead of waiting for people to give you their experiences, why dont you look them up? |
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Date: 4/30/2003 10:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Well, RT'd, I just went and looked at your three posts you have here at this site: two dealt with U.S. "war" policy; the other was about you and your experience in not remembering something you wished you did. So, now I have the story of your experience and I am supposed to determine whether your experience is the TRUTH. Sure. I believe you. Is it a universal TRUTH? Absolutely! I think everyone of us humans have lapses in memory. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/30/2003 4:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 54707
Deb, noone has to tell you any of their expirences. We have our own expirences and ideas. That's why we belive the way we do. I personally don't like to share my expirences, and apparently nor do the others that have been posting here. Why must we keep it going like this. Why did this post go from the original topic, "How Do We Account For Similarities In Major Religions?" to "Deb right no matter what anyone says because she is the supreme knower of all and anyone who tries to say other wise is a complete ignorant fool". Its great that you feel that way, (and if you dont you should realize that's the way you come off)but why must you berate what others say? But, alas...I am only an ignorant 17 year-old. Blessed Be. -AcidStorm |
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Date: 4/30/2003 6:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Now, see, AcidStorm, you asked me a question. That is why I come back: to answer anyone who addresses me. If I didn't, then I suppose you'd have the opinion of me that I was rude. And you're totally entitled to your opinions of me as far as I'm concerned, and you're totally entitled to keep your experiences to yourself (and for you to come here and acknowledge THAT truth for us makes me happy. Now I know where you stand. Which brings me to this: I know what I know which is but a tiny speck on the specturm of All That There is to Know. So, I come off as "the supreme knower of all"? Hmmm. That equates to God, in my definition of Him. Are you trying to tell me I'm "Goddess"? (Just think . . . then all these people on this site could really stand up and finally satisfy my curiousity as then they could say that they have had an experience with "Goddess". LMAO. God Bless. |
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Date: 4/30/2003 8:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 54707
Deb. I take offense to that. You just mocked my religion. I hope you are glad with the low that you have stoped to. I previoulsy said i would never put down or humiliate another religion. Does it feel good to know a 17 year old is mor mature? -AcidStorm |
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Date: 4/30/2003 8:26:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
o.k. DEB- you really do need a "time-out". You are attacking and insulting a 17-year old, who is showing more maturity than yourself. I have already dis-invited you from this post, since you have turned it into a private temper tantrum (~IMO~), and so far, it appears to me, you have gone from post-to-post, looking for "anti-Christian" arguments, and frankly, in my opinion, attacking other people, myself included. So, let me put this into perspective for you. This debate has a legitimate topic & it is an interesting area of thought, covering theology, and history. This s not a "bash Christian's" post. If that is how you see it, it is your perogitive. However, you ARE NOT debating the topic, you are attcking others, myself included. I, for one, will not lower myself to your level. Yes, I said lower. IF there was a "line in the sand" draw, it was drawn by you. Shame on you for cluttering this post, and driving off people who could have debated the topic. I, for one, will be ignoring you, as I do others, who behave badly. You, have shown very poor sportsmanship here. IF you were attempting to glorify your God, or Jesus, in my opinion, you failed. All you did was look bad. That is my opinion. |
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Date: 5/1/2003 12:28:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
RT'd (BTW, I've shortened that from this author's moniker RodTodThisIsGod in case none of you happened to go see that for yourself, (of course that doesn't look TOO mocking, does it although since I know he isn't God I kinda have taken a bit of a liberty in trying to come up with a manner to address this person other than by AUTHOR ID ##$*&% that gives me a sense of his identification), what the hell I'm talking about is your experience as told on your story posted at USM. I thought I had made that clear. (But, hey, I also thought I had made it clear that I have a sense of humor "unlike" (apparently! quite different) those two^^^^ What you didn't make clear was the "people" you made reference to: What? Do you think I'm a "psychic" that I could know what people you're talking about? (I just had to stop and pause and laugh at that one, too, but only those knowing what I think of the term "psychic" would understand the nuance, so, no, I won't stray off the subject at hand So, now, RT'd, I am understanding that you have heard compelling stories from other people and you want me to read them. Listen, I AM NOT A "PSYCHIC"; I won't know which stories you find so compelling until you reference one. The one person you mention is Edward Cayce who you said had similar beliefs to mine . . . God Bless. |
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Date: 5/2/2003 11:03:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Deb, I dont see that you used this post for a *private rant* but I do see that you have tried to answer their questions. And once again lsg talks about radmans post about a clean debate. WEll this has been a clean debate. LSG I"M TALKING TO YOU, this has been a clean debate. Why is it everytime you and others cant answer the questions, you resort to RADMANS post in a threating way? I didnt read all the comments but I dont understand WHERE my name has come into this and why you think there is gossip involved LSG?? perhaps you have something to hide and are paranoid? |
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Date: 5/2/2003 11:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Rod::: You keep after deb to tell of these experiences, to show you proof. Once again hon, YOU show some proof that God or her beliefs are wrong? You cant do it. NOW back to the topic of the post. Many religions are similar. Even the wiccan when making prayer , use one of Gods own Angels. """"AUGUST 29--Michaelmas In the days of yore, Michaelmas was celebrated on the Roman Catholic Feast of St. Michael the Archangel. Michael is the Warlord Prince of the Heavenly Hosts, Lord Knight of the Seventh Heaven, A mighty Duke of the Order of Seraphim. He sits at the Right hand of God. Is Guardian of the Gates, Keeper of the Keys, Conqueror of Satan, Bringer of the biblical flood, messenger to Abraham, destroyer of Sodom and of Jerico, Slayer of the Dragon Baal, The Wrath of God, and the most powerful of all Angels. Usually depicted in are as brandishing a flaming sword, he is conjured to appear in just such a form. Later, it Michaelmas came to include the two other mighty biblical Archangels, Gabrial and often even Raphael. We at Ravenwood have adopted the Archangel Michael as our friend, guardian, protector and avenger. On Michaelmas we conjure Michael (and sometimes Gabriel, or the other Prince of Archangels, Ariel), to do our bidding and to help us accomplish our goals. Michael is also conjured at all our magickal circles where he stands as our protector against the malignent forces of the universe. """ NOW I cant see why one would do that, if God wasn't the almighty God?? ANd why have they preverted His will? Think about it. |
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Date: 5/2/2003 11:16:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
http://home.earthlink.net/~ravenwood/coven/holidays.html OH and that is the link, in case one would think I was making all that up |
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Date: 5/2/2003 11:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Now forgive me if I'm wrong but didnt wiccans say there was no satan?? |
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Date: 5/2/2003 11:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Hindu ,,Many gods or incarnations of gods are worshiped by Hindus. The gods are sometimes amoral; their freedom from the usual restraints necessary to humans is often celebrated, and they are often represented with sexual imagery.Brahman is seen by many Hindus as a personal, loving God who desires the salvation of all men. More usually, however, he is described as a supreme, impersonal being completely above all creation and uninvolved with life on earth. ""WeLL NOW, that doesnt seem similar to my God what so ever. My God says worship ONE God, My God isnt amoral nor represents himself in sexual imagery. AND my God is personal not impersonal as well as HE is involved still today with life on earth. |
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Date: 5/2/2003 11:31:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
The reason all religions have a spark of TRUTH is that they have used God the creator in thier doctrins. Not only God, but his angels. I think if nothing more to copy GOD is a high form of flattery. |
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Date: 5/2/2003 11:37:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Wow, FB, you've been busy! I agree it is flattery to want to mimic another but as the song goes, "There ain't nothin' like The Real Thing, baby". God Bless. |
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Date: 5/2/2003 12:03:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
*sigh* it apears that I will be forced to address FB directly, somthing I told her in private message I would not be doing. But, since my hand has been forced, so-to-speak, in thepublic USM forum, I will respond. I can assure you, this will be the last time. FB (Debbie). I don't like you. Not jut the things you say, I don't like you, the person. My opinion of you is not very high. I have little-to-no patience for silly head games & your attempts to "bait" other, myself included. I find you can be quite a bully, and that also reflects badly on what message you claim to want to share, ~IMO~. Your opinions do not mean anything to me. Your thoughts do not mean anything to me. I have asked you not to respond to my posts. You insited you wold.. I also told you I would not respond to you. Well, since you felt the need "bring it on", here we are. If you insist on forcing your opinions on others in my posts, I will not respond to you, no matter how inflammatory, or silly. DEB- I will debate and discuss with you, as long as you remain calm & rational. Once you get worked up, I will ignore you. Debate the subject, do not attack the others who respond. You both proclaim you are setting an example....what are you proving here? That you are strong in your faith? Or that you are acting badly, in the "Lord's" name? Now-I have said my piece. |
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Date: 5/2/2003 12:07:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
now-it's time to erase the line in the sand, and share open dialogs among all the belief systems again. We had a good start, till a few decided to muddy the waters with bad behavior. |
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Date: 5/2/2003 1:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
LSG, Gee, I'm sorry that you have all those negative feelings, that must make it hard in your prayer life. Personally I choose to go the way God tells me to and that is to love, so I do love you, I may not like some of the things you do, but I wont have my prayer life ruined by negative thoughts and feelings. NOW to address your comments. The only time people ask me not to respond to thier posts are when they don't have the answers to the questions that I ask. And I see that you didn't stick to the post or answer any questions. Your posts says" How do we account for Similarities in Major religions and I'm trying to show you that they are not that much alike. AND you say that we should stick to the post and not attack the person. Then I highly think that you should go by your own advice and do that, instead of the above comments you have made using my name. If you would stop using my name in ugly ways when you comment to other people then I WOULD NOT have to address you about them. I've made some very valid points in which you choose to ignore as well as others, because they cant answer them? As far as coming to your posts, when you or any others ,and by the way you do make lots of anti-christian posts, when ya'll make posts such as these I will respond to them, I"M DEBATING the subject of this post, but due to so much hate in your heart you cant seem to see that. Do not respond to me, that does not bother me in one way or the other, but your not the only person on this post or others like it, that I'm sharing open dialog with. If you post something, usm is a forum and last I looked, I'm free to respond to any post on here. Have a good day. AND out of my last eight replies they WERE about the subject of this post, only ONE was addressed to you and ONLY because YOU put my name in your comments. |
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Date: 5/2/2003 1:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Now if you can show me one place where I have baited you or anyone else please do. No I'm not a bully, but I will stand up for what I beleive in, just as you do. So I guess that makes two bullies. |
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Date: 5/2/2003 6:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Just as I guessed, no answer, cant answer. Well another bites the dust. |
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Date: 5/3/2003 12:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
I know YOU have been watching this post, LOL,its awful that one cant respond because they DONT have the answers |
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Date: 4/20/2004 8:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 62655
The Truth is not confined to any book. Most Middle Eastern religious texts have legends that are very similar to earlier Babylonian legends, and many of those can be traced to even earlier Aryan traditions--But this is all way back before Christ or Krishna. The Bible was compiled as a political tool for the Roman Empire in order to subjugate masses, and continued to be used for that purpose (but even says that Jesus encouraged reliance on the Holy Ghost). The following contains an outline of sacred composition as well as a word on brainwashing: http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm379440.html |
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Date: 4/21/2004 10:48:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
I agree-I watched a special on the "History Channel" about the Bible, (over Easter). There is not one thing that is taught in Christinaity, that does not have Pagan roots. I know that infuriates some people, but it is true. I am not discounting that Jesus is a "Son-of-God". But, I really cannot accept that any one religion has the answers. |
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