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Date: 3/2/2003 4:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 33925
This post is assuming that everyone believes that by having an abortion you are taking a life..that isnt necessarily true..Not all believe that a fetus is a life..I was raised believing that you can be forgiven for your sins if you ASK for forgivness..you cannot ASK if you have taken your own life..You are dead..its too late..  |
Date: 3/2/2003 4:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 15997
Well since I dont believe in hell its kinda hard for me to answer this...but I'm not saying that there isnt a place where negative spirits go when they die...I just dont think its this firey place with a horned devil. Anyways I dont believe that all people who commit suicide will never find their way to God...some poeple are sick in the head and some do it for revenge. I believe when suicide is done for revenge those spirits will not go to God. As for women who get abortions...I feel the same way. First off I dont believe in abortion. I believe it's murder but anyways...if a woman does it for her own selfish reasons then her spirit will suffer for it...when its done for medical reasons and unselfish reasons then I believe God is the only one who can judge those individuals.  |
Date: 3/2/2003 4:23:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
Lady, that would inclue every1 who suddenly died in an acident, al of them would go to hell cuz they couldn't ask for forgiveness. Looney, Lucifer wassupposed to be one of themosbeautiful angels! lol  |
Date: 3/2/2003 4:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 8278
i too believe that if you ask for forgivness, and are truely sorry for what you did, God will forgive. this isn't saying it is okay to go out and kill somebody because all you have to do is ask, and you will be forgiven. it doesn't work THAT way. but we are only human and humans do make mistakes. i am sure there are people out there who have had abortions and realized afterwards that they regreted it. they didn't think at the time that there was anything wrong with it. i am not saying i am for or against abortion. i don't believe in lecturing people about it. it is their life and thier decision. i am not one to tell people what to do with their lives. i am just saying that if you do something in life and later think it is wrong, if you pray to God and ask for forgivness...he will forgive you.  |
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Date: 3/2/2003 4:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 33925
But Smurf..they did not commit a sin by dying in that accident did they?? It specifically says in the bible that taking your own life is one of the greatest sins..If you do this..you cannot ask for forgiveness..If you were to die suddenly in an accident..You have not sinned..thats why its called an ACCIDENT..suicide is done on purpose..no mistakes or accidents there.. |
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Date: 3/2/2003 4:45:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
so then its not becouse theycan't ask forgiveness its just becouse they died of there own accord, but there are so many different levels u can bring that too, I mean u can cut your life short by not eating right or beouse you are in a hazardous job. You can drive drunk and smash in a tree and not mean to do so. |
Date: 3/2/2003 4:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
God forgives all sins..If you had an abortion, yes it is a sin. If you ask for forgiveness while yet alive..yes you can be forgiven..If you commit suicide then you have committed murder again and you cannot repent because the last act you did was to sin against God by committing murder and you cannot repent of that sin once you are dead..God judges us after we leave this earth. We all have a chance to repent of our sins and turn to Him while we are yet alive.  |
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Date: 3/2/2003 4:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 15997
Oh dont even get me started on that Lucifer thing...I have a different belief on that one there....hehehe |
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Date: 3/2/2003 4:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 33925
Well said Rusure. |
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Date: 3/2/2003 5:00:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
lol looney, rusure what if a person got killed on the job knowing full well there job was hazardous is that forgivable? |
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Date: 3/2/2003 5:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 33925
Smurf..that is grasping at straws hon..LOL..a person working at a job that is hazardous is not looking to kill themselves..they are trying to make a LIVING...that is completely different..They did not take the job thinking.."Oh maybe today is the day I will finally get it right and kill myself while Im at work"..they are hoping they can LIVE each day..big difference. |
Date: 3/2/2003 5:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 53961
From what I have learned, forgiveness can happen on this side or the other side of the veil that seperates life and death. God is just. No one knows the exact procedure or requirements other than the most important one; one repents and that means TRULY repents. Not just mince words. Actions are the most important.  |
Date: 3/2/2003 5:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I guess we wont know unless it happens to us, I do not believe that someone that is already a born again christian, if they were to take their own life, would go to hell. I dont believe they are in their right mind to do something like this. Everyone seems to forget that the bible says we fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities, powers and the rulers of darkness. NOW if someone such as Judas was as in this verse,"" Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve"" Satan entered into Judas to cause him to betray Jesus. Just as satan could enter into someone to cause them to take their own lives even tho THEY dont want to. NOPE , dont think that God is going to punish them for something that is really NOT their fault. Thats not to say that all have had satan entered in that has killed themsleves. But Christians are human too. Oh some are on greater enlightment because they study the word, but some are just babes where the word is not so enriched, they may do drugs, they may be drinking, what if while they are harming their body they kill themsleves? I think we have a more loving God than so many think we do. If I didnt think so, I'd walk away right now. Too many times people put God in a box, on their perceptions of what he would or would not do.  |
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Date: 3/2/2003 5:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Smurf Poo..Do you mean something like, if a policeman or a fireman got killed while on duty? If this is what you are talking about..You know..God expects a nation to have ruling leaders and law makers, people who protect the innocent and to try to save the lives of others, even if there could be a danger of getting killed yourself..You know..We could get killed by a maniac any where or any time, whether we are in our homes, on the streets, or at our place of employment. Anyway..The job one does is not of importance to God..The important thing is to make sure you are living your life in accordance to God's Word. If a person does anything knowing that he will get killed, I would hope this person is right with his Creator. |
Date: 3/2/2003 5:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 43586
umm, ya got things a bit wrong bud, you see, once you are saved, thats it you are saved, there is nothing you can do to get out of it really. If you had just lied and done a wrong right before your house collapsed and you died, youd still be going to heaven. According to the beliefs, Jesus' blood accounts for ALL sins, and not just a few. It doesnt matter how severe the sin is, you still are going to be forgiven. I suggest you follow your own path and not that of the radicalist chrisitan (who i cannot stand). Your path can be christianity too, you dont have to believe what the other christians do, BELIEVE WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO BELIEVE, NOT THAT OF OTHERS, BUT DO NOT CLOSE YOURSELF TO NEW IDEAS. The entire idea that killing yourself is so great of a sin that Jesus couldnt make amends for it is ludicris and stupid. That is compltely underminding the entire sacrifice of jesus washing away all sins (in the past and the present), hope that helps.  |
Date: 3/2/2003 5:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
No sin can keep you out of heaven. As long as you have put 100 percent of your in Jesus Christ and what he did for your salvation, then you have enternal life, NOW. Not when you die. If you have enternal life, you have it forever. If you can loose your enternal life, then that means that it will not be eternal. So any sin, weather it be Suicide, Abortion, Murder, or whatever if you are born agian, (I think a born again person can commit any sin that someone who is not born agian, that includes suicide.) If you are born agian, regardless of how you die, (includes suicide) you will go to heaven. Alot of people assume that when you sin again, you will loose your salvation state and need to confess inorder to get it back, it is based on that many believe that one who commits suicde cannot enter into heaven, which that belief is NOT biblical. See when you trust in Christ as Savior, all you sins are forgiven, past, present and future. God sees you as Holy, your future sins are forgiven(includes future sins.) Remember when Christ died for your sins, at that time all your sins were in the future at that point. Yes someone who is born agian, kills himself or herself will go to heaven. But what he/she will loose is the rewards. Once you are saved, there is no way that you can go back to unsaved, even if you wanted to, you still cannot go back.  |
Date: 3/2/2003 5:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 56840
For me, I just have faith in what is beyond me. I love God, and however he plans on using me, I accept. I was made to do his will, and if my life is taken, let it be for him. If I kill myself, I only hope that my God will be merciful. My faith in Him is my candle by which I see. If it gets blown out, I hope it was not by my folly. I guess I sound simple. Oh, well.  |
Date: 3/2/2003 5:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
As humans, we have a tendacy to make some sins bigger than others. Like to some, saying "GD" isn't that big, but suicide or murder (with the acception of abortion in most cases--yeah I think its murder) is so evil that no one who commits it is "good" and eternally condemned. Thats what I thought before I became a Christian. Now, I know that "ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3 3), therefore all are condemned to hell since "the wages of (any) sin is death" (Romans 63), and the only way to go to heaven is through Jesus (John 14:6). It is by His death on the cross that we are forgiven. I believe that once you are saved, you are eternally saved. Does this mean we will never sin? No. Does this mean that we are going to hell? No. I believe that suicide is murder because God created man (Gen. 1) and that He created everyone one in their mother's womb (Psalm 139:13-14). It is also murder because when you become a Christian, it "is no longer I live, but Christ lives in me, and the life I know live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God" (Gal 20). So our life is no longer our own, but God's. God created man and our life is His, so any taking of life is WRONG! What is the main reason for suicide? To me (when I wanted to commit suicide), it was out of hopeless and despair. What Christian should live with hope and dispair?! They have the God of the universe on their side! I truly do not think that any one person TRULY saved by the grace of Jesus, being God focused, and so in love with Him, would attempt suicide. So, anyway, I know that was alot, but the point is, that God created life and that it is precious to Him. Suicide is murder and it is done by those who hold no trust for God, so no, I do not believe that those who commit suicide go to heaven cuz those who hope in Christ will commit it.  |
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Date: 3/2/2003 5:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
sry bout all the typos... |
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Date: 3/2/2003 7:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Sometimes a believer would forget that they have the God of the universe on their side. Everyone who is a believer would forget that they have God on their side, that is how they fall into sin. We all sin, even after salvation. There are many Christians that do have forgotten about the God that is on their side and need to trust in Jesus Christ. Which they get caught into sin, and many cases I have seen it, they have been in a very heavy depression. Sometimes they will even try to commit suicide. Priase God that every case I have seen, they get out of the depression. In my case, through guilt I have, I am tempted to suicide, but I know that I'm not going to. So does that make me Hellbound. |
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Date: 3/2/2003 7:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
The following are scriptures showing us that we can definitely lose our salvation..There is no 'once saved away saved' teaching in the KJV..Col 11-23 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled ( has repented and turned to God for salvation)..etc, etc..IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, 'and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel. (It is obvious that you can be removed from the hope of the gospel once you were saved)..1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith(Some shall depart..They could not depart from something they were never a part of) giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils..(This plainly states that you can depart from the faith)..James 5:19-20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death. (If you err from the truth..Again..One can err from the truth).. 2 Pet 2 0-21 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (It is very plain what this is saying..One CAN turn away once they had known the way)..It is so very plain that one can turn away and lose their salvation..I refuse to heed the doctrines taught by man..If God says so, then I don't care if a thousand men tell me differently, I will not heed..It is my salvation I am working on. I cannot depend on ANYONE else to do this for me. We all are held accountable as individuals.. |
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Date: 3/2/2003 7:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Drkptr..What book do you read??..According to the KJV it many scriptures teaches us that we could lose our salvation. The following are just a few but first I would like to leave this: 1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer, and ye know that NO MURDERER Hath Eternal Life abiding in him. |
Date: 3/2/2003 9:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 26217
i do not believe you go to hell if you commit suicide....God forgives mistakes....He forgives our sins...otherwise why send His Son? well....murder is a sin and in Gods eyes no sin is greater than another....well...if you commit suicide...you are committing murder....but suicide is selfish....to me its selfish because others weep over a terrible tragedy..people start to doubt God and others just want answers...and suicide brings all of this..its selfishness and foolishness...but anyways...i dont belive you go to hell (if you are a christian) if you commit suicide  |
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Date: 3/2/2003 10:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 53961
From a man I admire a lot, M. Russell Ballard: "I feel that judgment for sin is not always as cut-and-dried as some of us seem to think. The Lord said, “Thou shalt not kill.” Does that mean that every person who kills will be condemned, no matter the circumstances? Civil law recognizes that there are gradations in this matter—from accidental manslaughter to self-defense to first-degree murder. I feel that the Lord also recognizes differences in intent and circumstances: Was the person who took his life mentally ill? Was he or she so deeply depressed as to be unbalanced or otherwise emotionally disturbed? Was the suicide a tragic, pitiful call for help that went unheeded too long or progressed faster than the victim intended? Did he or she somehow not understand the seriousness of the act? Was he or she suffering from a chemical imbalance that led to despair and a loss of self-control? Obviously, we do not know the full circumstances surrounding every suicide. Only the Lord knows all the details, and he it is who will judge our actions here on earth. When he does judge us, I feel he will take all things into consideration: our genetic and chemical makeup, our mental state, our intellectual capacity, the teachings we have received, the traditions of our fathers, our health, and so forth. Suicide is a sin—a very grievous one, yet the Lord will not judge the person who commits that sin strictly by the act itself. The Lord will look at that person’s circumstances and the degree of his accountability at the time of the act. Of course, this gives us no reason to excuse ourselves in committing sins, nor will the Lord excuse us, if I understand correctly. We must constantly strive to do our best in emulating the Savior in every aspect of our lives. At the same time, however, let us remember that spiritual growth comes “line upon line,” that the key—in the spirit world as well as in mortality—is to keep progressing along the right path. I am grateful for the great plan of salvation our Father in Heaven has provided for us. It is a plan of great fairness and a plan of great love. As I think about the worry and agony of those whose loved one has taken his or her own life, I find deep comfort and faith in the Lord’s promise and blessing to us who remain in mortality: “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” (John 14 7.)" |
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Date: 3/2/2003 11:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Jn:10:15: As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.Jn:10:18: No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. As we can see by these verse, Jesus laid his life down for us. Clearly he says that he has the power to lay it down of himself. So basically would not this be a form of suicide? The only difference being that HE allowed man to kill him instead of taking his own life by his own hands. And then we have this: ""Jn:15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."" So take this example. There are three men in the street. A forth one comes by, pulls out a gun, one of the other three Steps in front of his friends to that they dont get shot, * a form of suicide* will this man go to hell? I dont think so. So basically what I"m saying is WHAT of the one that might lay down their lives, aka suicide thinking that God told them to do it for the sake of the brethen? He kills himself, is he going to hell because he thought he heard what God wanted? This is what I'm talking about because God clearly tells us that satans play ground is in our minds. And yes its our responsiblity to battle him daily, yet some are NOT strong, and they could be hearing his voice and not test the spirit and kill themself. I dont think they are going to hell. But I guess there is no sense in the argument of doctrin. As we will Know when we arrive with Jesus. |
Date: 3/3/2003 6:30:00 AM
From Authorid: 52140
ok,i take the last part back. this space bar sucks!!! (that had nothing to do with anything) |
Date: 3/3/2003 8:02:00 AM
From Authorid: 54532
I really dont like one debate being turned into another one. It is not murder. It is the mothers choice and its her business. The only thing is that if a child has a genetic defect then i dont believe in abortion because of that reason alone.  |
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Date: 3/3/2003 1:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Water Lily..It did sorta wander off into another subject didn't it? Really though..The author of this post could bring it right back to the original subject if she wanted to. |
Date: 3/3/2003 2:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
Rusure, can't believe you didn't mention this one  . 1So let us stop going over the basics of Christianity again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don't need to start all over again with the importance of turning away from evil deeds and placing our faith in God.2You don't need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.3And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.4For it is impossible to restore to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come--6and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people to repentance again because they are nailing the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up to public shame.7When the ground soaks up the rain that falls on it and bears a good crop for the farmer, it has the blessing of God.8But if a field bears thistles and thorns, it is useless. The farmer will condemn that field and burn it.9Dear friends, even though we are talking like this, we really don't believe that it applies to you. We are confident that you are meant for better things, things that come with salvation.10For God is not unfair. He will not forget how hard you have worked for him and how you have shown your love to him by caring for other Christians, as you still do. (Hebrews 6:4-10) Thanks Skater for the MSG. After I went back and read it, I realized what it was. |
Date: 3/3/2003 7:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 57054
well by christian beliefs... if you murder... you go to hell, because it's a sin. some believe that if you ask for forgivness *BOOM* your'e all good... but others think that no matter what, if you commit a sin, you are done for. i'm atheist however, so i say do what you want. i am pro-choice mostly... but i dont agree with stupid girls who go get pregnant and then have like 3 abortions... that's been known to happen here in my home town. those girls need to be shot. but i read somewhere that there is a quote in the bible which states that a human is born only when it is given the breath of life... this suggests that a person isn't a person until it is out of the woom (sp?) and has taken a breath. it all just depends. but if a girl doesn't want a baby... she's not gonna have it, there are plenty of other things she could do. so whether or not abortion becomes illegal... fetus' are still gonna be aborted all around the world. people will just have to deal with it, or quit being sluts. lol, i just went totally off of track there, sorry... but anyway... so it all depends on a person's beliefs to say if they go to hell or not. most christians i have ever talked to say that a baby is a real live person... and call it cold blooded murder, so i would say... just my opinion ... that most christians consider abortion murder, therefore... a sin.  |
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Date: 3/4/2003 6:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 52140
umm... you are SO wrong. When you ask for forgiveness, you are forgiven and forgotten. I'll comment more on it later. Bell just rang! Bye! Tootles! |
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Date: 3/4/2003 1:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
oh wait didn't read that right! The people who believe that you are done in when you commit a sin are SO wrong. There would be NO point in Christ dying for us. We would all be hellbound. |
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Date: 3/4/2003 3:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 20702
Well, here is my thoughts. First, I believe that we are reincarnated and that if we commit suicide that you will come right back in and your lessons in life will be harder this time around. Second, I also believe that the soul does not enter the baby until it is born. And that the soul chooses to come here or not to. Therefore, the abortion thing is just something that gives others to hold against those that chose to do so. Good post. Peace  |
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Date: 3/5/2003 6:45:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
ehh I don't think it really got off track. U see there are so many scriptures and I just am not mature enough in my faithto decipher them correcly, so instead I put my faith in God that he will be just. Thanx for all te replies guys. I blieve a child is a human being at the moment of conception, here is one verse to support my beliefs. Let this be written for a future generation, that a people not yet created may praise the lord" Psalm 102:19-22 |
Date: 3/8/2003 1:10:00 AM
From Authorid: 42945
but in all fairness to anyone who has committed suicide, I consider that they are sick...mentally, by that I mean that, anyone comtemplating suicide, must be in such a state of absolute and utter confusion and feel that its the only way to solve their problem, I was taught that God forgives everyone who asks for it, but if one commits suicide he surely must consider that they were not thinking straight in the first place and couldn't ask for forgiveness and they would be forgiven..well thats what I believe anyway...Zema  |
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Date: 3/8/2003 1:34:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
Zema..There are many opportunities given to a person to turn to God before they get to that point of insanity. If they waited until they could not think right in order to repent and turn to Him, then they died without knowing God and God says those who do not know Him will not receive a home with Him. I truly believe that God in His love and mercy had attempted to show this distressed individual the way long before he committed suicide. If he refused and took matters in his own hands, then God did His part but the individual failed. |
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Date: 3/8/2003 4:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 42945
But Deer Hart, we dont know if that poor person was even aware of his/her illness that made him/her come to this desperation point that they felt suicide was the only way out..I understand and respect what you are saying hun, but I dont believe that God would turn his back on anyone, and not allow them into the Kingdom of Heaven...Zema |
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Date: 3/8/2003 5:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
Zema..I know what you are saying but according to God's Word, there will not be many who will enter heaven..It's not that God didn't give them many opportunities, but they failed to hear God while they were yet alive, therefore they only have themselves to blame. It is a sad thing to realize this but I only go by what God's Word teaches us. |
Date: 3/10/2003 8:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 20296
ok...for one...it doesnt state ANYWHERE in the bible that a suicide is an unforgivable sin. judas didnt ask for forgiveness and never would have...AND he betrayed christ to the end. that is a little different from someone who, in a state of distress might have called for god and didnt hear him due to insanity or grief. As far as blasphemy goes. it is denying the spirit, the holy ghost, not christ..states that in the bibles...sheesh, all you peeps that can quote what ya want, but only from select thing and totally biased in your OWN thoughts...not God's. Noone knows for sure, except God..i was given a divine relation after my father died (yes, it was from the holy spirit) and it is something that i will keep to myself...but all they have to do is ask...and that is not always determined in this life...or what WE call life. I have a debate on this site asking the christians of this site to tell me explicitly where in the bible it states suicide is unforgivable..no interpretations as you see here with this judas mess....go and serch it out if you like..or pm me and I will get you the addy. BTW...none could tell me anything I couldnt read myself..and there is nowhere in the bible that states (without personal interpretation) that suicide is unforgivible....*this is what I posted in yet another of these posts that just gives some "blund peeps with books" time to share their wealth of totally biased knowledge...., dont listen to what another says, pick up the book yourself, or dont..listen to your heart and God, he provides the answers that you seek.  |
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