Date: 11/8/2002 2:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
What's FIVE minutes... its not like they would be missing much in class. I think any religious group should be allowed FIVE minutes for prayer if that is what their religion calls for...  |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
And as for the coach being fired over holding a group prayer, I think thats ridiculous! |
Date: 11/8/2002 2:45:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Dizzy I disagree because of the fact that for that five minute prayer, the students WILL be disrupting the class when they are getting up from their seats to go outside to pray. I think it is disrespectful to disrupt a class and an instructor while class is going on. If they want to pray at that time they can do it before or after their noon class............  |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
Okay, I would like to say one more thing: These students should not be allowed to be an EXCEPTION to a rule. I think that the rules should be CHANGED... I understand the schools not wanting a disruption, but I also think they should allow the students to do what their religion calls for, its not like they'd be doing that everyday. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
But would they even allow them to have a group prayer before or after class? |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:48:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Bill was fired for holding a prayer at a playoff game, his football team had done a wonderful job that year. He is a great coach. He is now coaching in a different school district. He still doesn't regret what he did and the reason he was fired was because he REFUSED to apologize or admit to wrong doing. Oh and his team won the playoffs.......they didn't do so good the next year...... |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:49:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Yes Dizzy, they have allowed that, however they want to leave at noon on the dot and that is when many of them are in classes. That is the biggest problem with this........ |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:50:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
They do go outside to pray, so it isn't like the school district is condoning the group prayer, however the district is not allowing the specific time they requested. That is where the problem is. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
I think things were better off before there was such an ISSUE over prayer in schools... don't you? |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
Okay-- well, I guess I can see thier point, now that I have thought about this a minute. If they were allowed to leave class, then how many other students would try that excuse to get out of class... it COULD get out of hand... |
Date: 11/8/2002 2:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 24732
In a public school the kids should pray during the moment of silence. If they have a problem with that then they can home school or go to a private school. That goes for anyone else who needs more time to pray. Otherwise they need to follow the rules. But prayer in school will always go on as long as there are tests.  |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:54:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Yes and no, I think there should be a minute of silence in the mornings for students. If they wish to pray that is THEIR individual choice. However, I do NOT think anyone who doesn't want to pray should be forced into it. It should be up to the student, but it shouldn't disrupt the other students. Not all students believe in religion so why should they have to hear any type of prayer if they don't believe in it. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:57:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Dizzy I think that is exactly what the school board is thinking. Why should there be exceptions made for some and not others? You and I both know many students would become very religious if it meant getting out of class, LOL, I sure would have....... |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 24732
When I said kids I meant the ones who wanted to pray. |
Date: 11/8/2002 2:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
i think if it doesn't intrupt the classes and can be done quietly they should.. or they should be able to fight to get the TIME OFF for religious reasons.. i don't think it;s disruptful if hte students get up out of thier seats quietly and walk out of class for 5 minutes to pray then come back just as quietly  |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 2:59:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
ALF you make a very good point and I totally agree with you. I said quite a few for my Algebra tests....... |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:11:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Alf I know what you meant, sorry my reply that started with Yes and No was in response to Dizzy's 2:51 reply. Sorry for the misunderstanding and I agree with you about the moment of silence...... |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:13:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
I disagree Midnightly, why should they be the exception???? Why should one religious group get special treatment over another??? They know their class times, if they can't go by that then they should attend a private school that doesn't have rules against it. And believe me, they showed the students on the news, THEY were anything but quiet............... |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
Something else to think about: To many people, religion is more important than anything else. It is top priority. Why should ANYONE have the right to stand in the way of someone worshiping thier God? |
Date: 11/8/2002 3:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 50435
It's just ridiculous. Whatever, sure, let them pray. Then everyone else will want to pray and so on and so forth. Why bother with school at all? Just send you kids to an all day prayer session until they want something else and petition to be allowed to do that as well. Sorry for the sarcasm, but I've just had it with everyone trying to accomodate everyone else's feelings and ideas. It just doesn't work...  |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:25:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Dizzy the school board isn't standing in the way, they are just NOT caving into the demands of one religious group, I totally agree with them. Why should one group be given special treatment over another. THEY are always free to go to a private school. NO one is making them stay in Brookhaven. So do you think Satanist should also be allowed to worship Satan openly in class? Now how many Christians are going to allow that without a fight? |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:27:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Gally I totally agree with you and those are the same thoughts I had when I first watched this on the news last night........ |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 50435
Here's a question: Does it specify WHERE it has to be noon? I mean, the Muslims in N.America are technically already getting a break with Ramadan since the sun rises later and sets earlier here at this time of year. Seriously. I have a feeling that this is more about starting a row than it is about the actual issue. I worked with Muslims and they prayed during their breaks, NOT during work hours... |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
private schools are expensive |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
If every group who worshipped SOME God or Goddess was allowed to perform prayers and prayer rituals at school when would there be time for learning??? School is meant to give you an education NOT a religion. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
Its not like it would be done all the time, just at times when their religion called for it, a few days out of the year for just a few minutes. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:37:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Dizzy yes I agree they are however if they feel they must break the rules of one school district, they should not go to that school or they should accept the punishment they get when they do break the rules. I guess it is sorta like, if I wanted my daughter to be devoutly religious I would send her to a Christian school. No matter what I had to sacrifice to do it. If they feel their children should be devoutly Muslim, they should go to a school set up for it. And they do have them in Columbus. I guess what it comes done to for me is education or religion? I prefer education in schools. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:38:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Not just a few days, 30 DAYS, an entire month. I wouldn't want my child disrupted everyday in class for 30 days...... |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
LOL That just goes to show how little I know about The Muslim faith... |
Date: 11/8/2002 3:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
If one religious group is allowed to disrupt class by taking time out for prayer, then EVERYONE else, of other religious beliefs would want the same. If, as Dizzy has said, some feel their religion is a priority, then they should attend private schools where there is prayer allowed. I don't think this is about prayer either; I think it is purely wanting to start trouble and or get out of class. RELIGION DOES NOT BELONG IN THE CLASSROOM, period.  |
Date: 11/8/2002 3:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 53284
If they are not in class and they get together on their own, I don't think that the school should be able to stop them. However, in this country, we have many religions. I don't think that the schools should provide a "special time or special space" if because of your religion. How could you ever get anything done?  |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 53284
I think that I'll start a new religion and require that all the members of my religion go surfing from 11:00 to 2:30 four days a week to better appreciate God's gift of water to our planet. Any kids attending school need to have special time off to observe this religious sacrament... Ah the CHurch of Bob |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:48:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
LOL @ Bob, I am sure my daughter would join your church in a heartbeat, anything to surf the net and get out of school........ |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 53284
I was just trying to point out the absurdity of trying to cater to each and every religion while trying to run a school district. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 3:51:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
I know and it is a point well taken, I agree with Thinker organized religion does not belong in the classroom, education does............ |
Date: 11/8/2002 4:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 56840
I agree with dizzy me, if this issue had never became an issue, we would not have this problem. And overall, though some students may wish to attend a nonpublic school where prayer is allowed, they may not have that kind of money to do it. Conforming to a school's rules is part of going to school, so on one hand the students should not have the option at all and should not be demanding it... Just thinking.. not saying i agree or disagree... Nice choice for argument Racquie.  |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 4:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 56840
And I'm wondering if a policy allowing this type of thing at school has ever been introduced...if so, how successful was it? Did it actually cause that much of a distraciton and waste of time? hmm... |
Date: 11/8/2002 4:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 56410
Nope. That's not fair to anyone else. Not only that, but its just wrong. Personally, I'm offended by one's own religion being brought into class. To me, its an outage that someone would want to do such a thing; its distracting, its a waste of time (nothing fails like prayer), and its an insult to those who don't practice their religion. If they get their prayer time, I get my ten minute earth rituals.  |
Date: 11/8/2002 4:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
id give it to them whatever happened to freedom of religon  |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 4:52:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Jestr, that doesn't apply in schools. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 4:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Jestr I hit submit to quick LOL, I meant it doesn't apply in schools because RELIGION doesn't belong there. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.<<<<not yelling, emphasizing. |
Date: 11/8/2002 5:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 3321
Flat out-no prayer in schools. Does not matter what religion.  |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 5:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 53284
The constitution of the United States makes it clear that there will be no state sponsered religion. Various court decisions have further defined this. Now, schools cannot set aside a special time for a specific relgious practice as it would constitute a "state sponsered religion". So the answer is NO they cannot. However, no one anywhere says that individuals cannot say a prayer silently even on a school campus. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 5:34:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Great point Perse and Wild Bob. Thanks everyone for your replies. I am off to work. Have a great night. |
Date: 11/8/2002 7:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 27678
What is the problem, exactly? That they want to pray or that they are Muslim? I think that this is ridiculous. For a country that boasts about religious freedom as the foundation of our nation, it just sickens me to see this scenerio played out over and over again. Five minutes? What's the harm? The harm is worse by denying these kids their right to practice their religion in my opinion. When you take away someone's right to worship as they please, you are taking away something very precious to them. Something that is a part of who they are. And don't even get me started on the educational/socialization system that constantly tailors the child to the system instead of the system to the child. And what about Easter and Christmas breaks? How can you say the rules are the same for all, when some of us Christians don't even acknowledge these pagan based holidays? The hypocrisy of Americans continues unabated.  |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 8:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
racquie normally i would agree but these kids believe they could goto hell because of this and plus when i mean no religon in school i mean no class prayers in the morning and such |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 8:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
Jester has a point-- these kids are brought up to think that they HAVE to pray at a certain time...etc. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 8:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 27678
Unbelievable - Now the US should decide on the doctrine of other nation's religions? Hey, wait a minute - you brainwashed litte twerps, you can't pray at a certain time - why, why, why, that's just plain ole UNAMERICAN, not to mention restrictive just like those burquas. Why America is all about FREEDOM of WORSHIP, as long as we call the shots, right? One day it will be our turn, and I wonder how many people will say to themselves, gee, we never thought we'd be in their shoes. We had far too many guns and GOD on our side for this to happen to us. FIVE MINUTES - What a hell of a lot to ask for. I knew the real problem was that they were Muslim, and we know that ALL those Muslims are KILLERS and TERRORISTS, and it's because they are BRAINWASHED, right? Gee, why don't you guys read some history, instead of listening to your "fearful" leaders? |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 11:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
free girl i agree but you gotta remember who runs our schools the same people that think there leaders are infallable |
Date: 11/8/2002 11:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
MY GOD dizzy for ONCE we agree!! IF a religion has a SET time they feel they must pray, I think it is going against their religiouse belief NOT to allow it to happen.  |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 11:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
OR SO I thought dizzy, YOU caved IN TOO fast!! LOL |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 11:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
OH Racquie: lets not try that old tired argument of church and state as YOU KNOW that is NOT what it means. IT DOES NOT MEAN to KEEP Church and STATE different or seperate. IT Means that the Government CAN NOT declare only ONE religion in which to make the states and people go by. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 11:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
well dizzy I READ ON and YOU came out of that CAVE nicely, good girl. |
|
Date: 11/8/2002 11:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
well goodnight all, ,I'll come play again tomorrow. Jestr YOU have made some good points. |
|
Date: 11/9/2002 3:58:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
Well just popping in before bed, nope Firstborn I do not agree with YOUR terms on what it means. Also I DO NOT agree with Freegirl, but gee go figure as you two are "religious" of course you feel religion ANY TYPE should be in schools. NOPE sorry education does, they want to pray, do it at home............. |
|
Date: 11/9/2002 4:00:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
And FreeGirl don't try to "It's because they are Muslim" ploy, a CHRISTIAN football coach was fired for pretty much the same thing, READ THE ENTIRE POST, not just what you can try to use as PROPAGANDA.......... |
|
Date: 11/9/2002 4:12:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
This has NOTHING to do with THEIR choice of RELIGION and EVERYTHING to do with SCHOOL POLICY. Of course it might be confusing to some people as they will try to use ANY type of PROPAGANDA to allow RELIGION in school. Just where it DOES NOT belong. THIS IS ABOUT RULES, why should they be broke to accomodate one religion and yet they fire a coach from another religion when he did pretty much the same thing????? Nope RULES are RULES and the school district HAS NOT AND WILL NOT "CAVE"........ |
Date: 11/9/2002 4:17:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
I'll be back to play more after my nap, looking forward to it  ........... |
|
Date: 11/9/2002 8:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 24732
I still don't think anyone is forcing them not to be able to pray, they have home school, home bound school programs, and private school. Yes, private school can be expensive, that is why Hugo always suggests school vouchers as the solution, and yes that would work. They have a lot of other options, they don't have to go to public school. Public school is free and cannot just bend the rules for anyone. If they want to attend public school then they should follow the rules all other religions follow. Otherwise they can go to school elsewhere. |
Date: 11/9/2002 10:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 58022
I think they should be allowed time to have a group prayer. It's only 5min and noon. It would be good if maybe then the whole school could take a "prayer" break and everyone could get into their seperate groups and pray quietly amongst themselves.  |
Date: 11/9/2002 11:33:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
well, on the one hand, alot more than five minutes is wasted at schools on a daily basis so what is five minutes? but on the other hand, people can pray anytime and anywhere, there doesn't have to be time set aside for it.  |
|
Date: 11/9/2002 11:37:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
and considering it is ramadan specifically, time is an important factor. it is a part of their religious beliefs. since there is time off for easter and christmas (yes origionally attributed to religion and notspring/winter break) maybe a little of that three week holiday at christmas could be shifted for haunneka(sp?) kwannza and ramadan. who knows? i found high school to be a high waste of time. busy work mostly and lots of wasted time. |
|
Date: 11/9/2002 11:40:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
and considering it is ramadan specifically, time is an important factor. it is a part of their religious beliefs. since there is time off for easter and christmas (yes origionally attributed to religion and notspring/winter break) maybe a little of that three week holiday at christmas could be shifted for haunneka(sp?) kwannza and ramadan. who knows? i found high school to be a high waste of time. busy work mostly and lots of wasted time. |
|
Date: 11/9/2002 11:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
sorry for the double post |
Date: 11/9/2002 12:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
http://unsolvedmysteries.com/usm308576.html
my answer to you. |
|
Date: 11/9/2002 2:04:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 38474
FB, I'll take a look at it in the a.m. and reply to you, on the way to dinner with the fam. Til tomorrow ........... |
|
Date: 11/9/2002 9:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 53182
why cant they just get off school those days? or have a half day? in school, prayer has no place, but it they should be alowed to leave school, or stay home. I have jewish freinds, and they stay home on there religious hollidays, and are excused from school, as the law says they should be. this situation is no different. if it is a special day of prayer, stay home. -the lost boy |
Date: 11/9/2002 10:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 53054
ok my thoughts on this...i have a friend who has to pray 5 times a day because of her religion, however she does not bring the prairs (?) into the skool, she does twice as many in the morning beofre hs ecomes to skoola dn then when she goes home she prayers again....and anyway there could be a pray class after skool or during luch were no classes are interrupted if they really wanted to, but i dont htink tat classes should be interrupted because students want to pray!  |
