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Date: 10/5/2002 5:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 56381
OMG I never thought of that. I guess it would be a good disguise. Hmm weird. xoxox *Shakira Babe*  |
Date: 10/5/2002 5:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 46486
I think it's scary.. but as scary as this is.. There are people in this world that wants a sex change.. but then again you bring up a good point.. Maybe for who ever wants a sex change the doctor(s) should review the patients past criminal history.  |
Date: 10/5/2002 5:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
no they shouldn't become illegal.. i think if it becomes a large thing they should start running background checks on people who are getting them done! and you usually have many many consultations before you get the actual change done numerous operations at differnt times not just one big one... and anyone comming in and saying "hey i want a sex change next week" is fairly suspicious and should be asked to seek councelling or something to make sure this is what they really want to do it(not just a whim thing)  |
Date: 10/5/2002 6:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 51049
Hmm, thats a good question.  |
Date: 10/5/2002 7:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 51635
A sex change doesn't change your finger prints... it also doesn't change what your face looks like enough to warrant making it illegal...  |
Date: 10/5/2002 9:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
Well there should be something on one's id to state that a sex change has occurred. Obviously you cannot change your birth certificate to say you're a female when you're a male. But it maybe should be stated on the drivers licence somewhere... maybe with a SX or something. I don't think sex changes should be made illegal because one guy had murdered someone... in that case you'd have to make dyeing one's hair illegal.  |
Date: 10/5/2002 11:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
why should they? oh thats right a few bad apples ruin it for people that actually feel there women trapped in mens bodies  |
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Date: 10/5/2002 11:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
actually koolade you have to get a certificate from a judge stating your change of gender |
Date: 10/6/2002 4:02:00 AM
From Authorid: 26452
I agree with Jestr.  |
Date: 10/6/2002 7:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 19586
I agree with Fallen Angel. A background check should be done before performing the procedure. As well as extensive psychological testing!  |
Date: 10/6/2002 9:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 61188
Good point!  |
Date: 10/6/2002 9:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 28623
i say having a sex change is up to the person doing it i also would have to say that it isn't that different from plastic surgery so i say it shouldn't be illegal just because some people have a problem with it.  |
Date: 10/6/2002 6:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
It is obvious that none of you know much about Sexual Reassignment Surgery, which is the proper name for it. No one can just go out and get a sex change. It is a long process that may take as long as 5 years. Even if it is done under the table, by a surgeon who is not on the up and up, it can still take up to year. First, a person has to go through therapy, and get a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria. Second, they must go through Hormone Replacment Therapy to change the effects of the body's natural hormones. Next they have to live for one year in the gender they wish to change to. Only then can they legally have the surgery. There is a set of standards they must follow called the Harry S. Benjamin Standards of Care. These rules and guidelines are quite clear. Jestr, no judges order is required to change your gender on your liscence, or any othert documents. The only thing required is a surgeon's letter stating you had the surgery, and it has been completed. Someone also mentioned having several small surgeries. Right now, for a male to change to female, it takes one or two surgeries, based on the surgeon. It would be impossible to do more surgeries without having unacceptable scar tissue. Also, it would discriminatory to require anything to be placed on a driver's liscence or any other document. What you do not understand is that Gender Dysphoria is a medical condition, and one of the cures for it is a sex reassignemt surgery. All that being said, NO, sex changes should not be made illegal. If you want more answers to questions on this topic, got to those who have knowledge in this area. There are a few of us on USM.  |
Date: 10/6/2002 6:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 16069
Dont worry, I dont think that the whole sex change thing is going to be picked up by too many people. Besides, you can ushually tell.  |
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Date: 10/6/2002 6:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Love One Another, I know over ten people who have had sex changes. Of all of them, maybe two you can tell if you look hard enough. The rest look like just like anyone else of their gender. |
Date: 10/6/2002 8:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 22628
i dont know why people would get a sex change...all i know is that i'm happy with my gender and no one will ever be seeing "The Boy In Your Closet" lol  |
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Date: 10/6/2002 8:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
The reason people would get a sex change is once again, a thing called Gender Identity Disorder, or Gender Dysphoria. It has a lot to do with things that happen to a person before they are even born. The world is not strictly male or female. There are varying degrees in between, and for some people, they are such that the only cure for Gender Dysphoria is livng in the gender that feels appropriate for them. The ultimate goal for many of those people is the final surgery. My business partner, whom I share a home with is one of these people. She is also a member of USM. Many know her as MsPriss. Until you sat with someone like her, and listened to her story, it is hard to fathom what these people go through to achieve happiness. For some, they never find the answer they are looking for. MsPriss was one of the lucky ones, she found her answer while still holding the pistol in her hand that she was going to use to end her life. |
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Date: 10/6/2002 9:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
warrior spirit thats how it is in my state different laws here ya know |
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Date: 10/6/2002 9:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Jestr, I am up on the laws for people who have had gender changes in all 50 states, since I work with one of the oldest gender support groups in the United States. I am not going to argue the point, just giving the professional information from someone who works with these people on an everyday basis. |
Date: 10/7/2002 12:42:00 AM
From Authorid: 3321
ha...I highly doubt that there will be a sudden increase in sex changes...not only are there numerous operations, but they are painful and rarely covered by insurance.  |
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Date: 10/7/2002 4:02:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Persephone, for female to males, there are numerous surgeries to reach what the person finally desires. The total costs for these surgeries is between $20,000 and $40,000. For male to females, there are either one or two surgerical operations, based on the doctor doing them, and the technique they use. The total costs can be as low as $5000 to $8000 if the surgery is done in Thailand, to as high as $9000 to $12,000 if it is done in Colorado or Montreal. For males to females, the procedures are virtually painless, with most requiring only Tylenol for the pain. The main reason not to expect people to do this to escape prosecution for criminal charges is that the process takes time from the time a person begins therapy, until the final surgery can be performed. The following link will give an even more in depth idea of what people have to go through. http://www.hbigda.org/socv6.html#07 |
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Date: 10/7/2002 4:06:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Also, there are some companies with their own insurance that will cover the surgery. In Canada, the procedure is covered by the government. There are also a few other reasons a person would not be able to do a sex change to evade prosecution, but I will not go into them since it is privy information that only a person having the procedure needs to know, and that law enforcemnt would be aware of. |
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Date: 10/7/2002 6:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 16069
WarriorSpirit, How do you know so much about sex changes? Do you know from personal experience? If you dont want to answer, thats fine, Im just curious. |
Date: 10/7/2002 6:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
Oh God it shouldnt be legal anyways .  |
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Date: 10/7/2002 6:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Love One Another, my business partner, who I also share a home with has gone through the entire process. Through her, I have met many others who have gone through it, or are going through it, including an old friend. I have studied it in depth, so as to help others who may have questions, and to help them find a source for their answers. Big Tex, Gender Dysphoria is listed in DSM-IV, which is a diagnosis manual for psychiatrist and psycholigists. The final surgery is part of a process for helping some who have GD live a full and helathy life. To say it shouldn't be legal is the same as saying that any medications to help a person with depression, or any other illness should not be legal. |
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Date: 10/7/2002 6:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
Full and healthy life god thats pathetic they are just social outcasts looking for a reason why there not "normal" that is not a valid excuse . |
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Date: 10/7/2002 7:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Big Tex, seeing as how I work with these people on a professional basis, and you are nothing but some kid without knowledge of the subject, I will chalk your remarks up to plain stupidity. |
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Date: 10/7/2002 7:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Another thing, I notice from your profile that you are from Oregon. One of these "outcasts", such as you like to call them, happens to be a well renowned doctor at a major hospital in your state. I will not give the person's name, but suffice it to say that you never know what the history of the person working on you may be. |
Date: 10/7/2002 7:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
I very much doubt there are enough people willing to do that to where it would become a problem.  |
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Date: 10/7/2002 7:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
You think thats a comment from stupidty ? That is simply just the other side of the arguement . You think mutilating a persons body helps them better come to there mental problem |
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Date: 10/7/2002 8:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Big Tex, I think you are just a kid who has no real concept of what real life is all about. When you grow up and find the truth for yourself, come back and talk to me. Until them I consider you just a minor annoyance. |
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Date: 10/7/2002 8:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
Well way to show your ignorance . Yah us simple teens can show no educated opinion's . What have I been doing the last 15 years collecting pokemon and playing doctor with Susy Q . Lets just ignore the last 11 years of schooling i've had . To bad your so close minded to relise other people valid opinions . So go back to your Alzhimers old man . |
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Date: 10/7/2002 8:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Big Tex, I am glad that you have an 11th grade education. A few more years of school and you may be at the same level I am, if you keep going to school as long as I do. On the topic that was brought up, I work with these people all the time. I know the life they lead, and what they go through. They are anything but outcasts. They are doctors, lawyers, pilots, police officers, ex-military, both officer corps and enlisted. Most of the ones who have transitioned from man to woman were more of man than most men can ever hope to be, and are more of a woman than most can ever hope to have. I know one who was Navy EOD, another who a Seargent Major with time in combat. Yet another was a fire team leader with combat time. Some have walked steel on high rises, others have built bridges. Outcasts?? Not hardly. Just people who are doing something about their proiblem. Too bad everyone can't do the same. Get the hint? |
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Date: 10/7/2002 8:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
When I mentioned alzhimer I was not being rude I was just showing my point that you shouldnt judge someones opinion on there age . |
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Date: 10/7/2002 8:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
And you should not judge people who you have no understanding of. A lot of people have killed themselves because they never found the answers they were searching for. My partner was almost one of them. Had it not been for a person who is now a dear friend of both of us, she would be dead. |
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Date: 10/8/2002 5:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
big tex this is coming from another 15 year old you are showing sheer ignorance i have many times been told by people that they thought i was older in other words ACT MORE MATURE you come on to post and disregard all respect these people obviously have a mental problem and if you wanna deprive someone of happiness then your just being ignorant cause there not hurting anyone |
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Date: 10/8/2002 9:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
And again I have been told that I act way older then I am . Not everyone is a bleading heart liberal and agrees with every post you like . |
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Date: 10/8/2002 10:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 38222
" And again I have been told that I act way older then I am " I doubt it. |
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Date: 10/8/2002 10:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
Really you doubt it how would you know just because I am acting strongly about a arguement that I think is obviously wrong doesnt mean you know me at all . |
| Date: 10/8/2002 10:47:00 PM From Authorid: 38222 I've seen a lot of your replies.You say some really stupid things. |
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Date: 10/8/2002 11:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
How are they stupid? And look at you, your not genius either. All you have to say is "your stupid" haven’t heard an intelligent comment come out of you the whole time. |
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Date: 10/8/2002 11:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 38222
You really need to take a grammar class. |
| Date: 10/8/2002 11:31:00 PM From Authorid: 38222 Lol don't have a heart attack. |
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Date: 10/8/2002 11:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
There you go again. |
| Date: 10/8/2002 11:37:00 PM From Authorid: 38222 And no I don't think sex changes should be illegal. |
| Date: 10/8/2002 11:37:00 PM From Authorid: 38222 Ok I quit. |
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Date: 10/8/2002 11:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
Yah same with me I'm tired and grumpy. |
| Date: 10/8/2002 11:45:00 PM From Authorid: 38222 It's 2:45am here.I need to get some sleep.I don't wanna fall asleep during geometry......again |
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Date: 10/9/2002 7:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 16069
WarriorSpirit, Thank you. |
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Date: 10/9/2002 7:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
big tex we arent saying that your ignorant and childish because you strongly disagree with something but you did it in a rude way you never explained your reasons you dont use tact at all you just blatently say something without a reason backing it and it really makes you sound ignorant |
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Date: 10/9/2002 10:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
I was making that comment from my beliefs in the Bible. In the Bible it says your body is a temple and not to ruin it. And obviously a sex change is nothing short of body mutilation. |
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Date: 10/10/2002 9:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 28623
well who are you to judge, and as for that hole temple stuff i think its a real bad analogy...i mean really think about it for a sec. |
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Date: 10/10/2002 1:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
Being judgmental is also supposed to be a sin according to the Bible so if people want to change from man to woman or to an urangatan is no one else's business but their own. 'Let those who are without sin cast the first stone.' |
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Date: 10/10/2002 2:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Big Tex, maybe you should take the time to study your Bible, instead of just reading it and quoting certain verses that fit the way you feel. The following link is to a website a friend of mine maintains, and discusses at length the spiritual aspects of transsexualism, and what the Bible really says. http://montgomery_institute.tripod.com/montgomeryinstitute/id6.html |
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Date: 10/10/2002 6:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
What? I dont see how that website proved my post wrong. How is that not not against that verse. If a tatoo is ruining your "temple" then how is a sex change not. For that I believe that body says sex changes are wrong. |
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Date: 10/10/2002 8:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Big Tex, you can believe what you want. Who is to say though that your religous beliefs are right? I guess that is why they call it faith. In my native culture, these people are revered as being closer to the Great Spirit. We call them Two Spirit Natives. For hundreds of years, they were the peacemakers and caretakers of many of the American tribes. Like you, I once beleived everything the Bible said, and would often take verses out of context. When I found my spirituality, then I did not need the Bible. Maybe it is time you expanded your horizons. These people, like any other, are all God's children. It is not what people see that decides whether or not these people will live happily in the hereafter, it is what is in their hearts. |
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Date: 10/10/2002 8:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
I have expanded my horizon I understand what you are saying I just don’t agree with it spiritually or personally. |
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Date: 10/10/2002 9:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Big Tex, you quoted a part of scripture as your reasoning. Do you know what verse that is, and have you read the entire chapter? The reason I ask is that you have taken that verse way out of context and read more into it than is there. Such is the fault of men that they often use one or two verses to make their point, without haing knowledge of the verses preceding or following that verse. |
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Date: 10/11/2002 4:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 16538
I read that out of context? How can that be out of context its plane as day what it means. |
Date: 10/11/2002 4:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
somehow i don't think alot of them will be doing that LOL *-) but, it is pretty weird. i guess if i were a straight man and was probably goign to jail..........well ---i guess i might just get a sex change and not mind .....  |
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Date: 10/11/2002 9:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Big Tex, here is part of 1 Corintians, Chapter 6; 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee sexual immorality. "Every sin that a man does is outside the body," but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or don't you know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's..... Now, would you like to tell me where that says what you stated. It does not. I states that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, and to commit sins against the body, as in lieing with a prostitute, is sinning against that temple. It is better to read the whole chapter, thus getting the full meaning of a verse, rather than speculate based on one verse. |
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52140 Category:(Debate) Created:(10/5/2002 5:26:00 PM)