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Date: 7/21/2002 10:50:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
now i"m GOING TO BED. See ya'll in the morning.  |
| Date: 7/21/2002 10:54:00 PM From Authorid: 58710 Diadlo is my dad - love NEL |
Date: 7/21/2002 10:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 29534
FirstBorn, very interesting, Thank you for sharing that with us. My Grandfather is Hispanic and I learned the word Diablo at a very young age. Love ya Hun,  |
| Date: 7/21/2002 11:01:00 PM From Authorid: 57828 thanx! good night! |
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Date: 7/21/2002 11:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
The four most import figures in Egyptian mythology needed to understanding the Christian stories are Set, Isis, Osiris, and Horus. In earliest times, Set was the patron deity of Lower (Northern) Egypt, and represented the fierce storms of the desert whom the Lower Egyptians sought to appease. However, when Upper Egypt conquered Lower Egypt and ushered in the First Dynasty, Set became known as the evil enemy of Horus (Upper Egypt's dynastic god). In Egyptian religion Set, of Seth, came to stand for the forces of chaos and destruction, of energy misplaced. He was the opposer of light and the champion of darkness. Set was the principle of all which burns and consumes. In later periods, Set was identified with the Greek genie Typhon who had a serpents body. The snake is a symbol long associated with Set which undoubtedly influenced the use of the snake as the evil influence in the story of Adam and Eve. In the dynastic periods, when Osiris, Horus, and Isis were worshipped, followers of Set were persecuted and his priesthood was finally destroyed in the XXV dynasty. When the Hebrews emigrated from Egypt during the XIX dynasty, it is clear that they took with them the character of Set which was later used along with Angra Mainyu as the model for Satan. Even the word Satan was probably derived from the Egyptian hieroglyphic Set-hen, one of Set's formal titles therefore-I would suggest Paul infused his Pagan belief system, into the new "religion"...after all, Jesus did not write his story....his followers did.  |
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Date: 7/21/2002 11:16:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
NO, really, I'm going to bed now. BUT first. NEL: LOL Leana: hey how ya doing. I know of you from demonslayer, my son. YEP he, satan has been around forever. LSG:: I do not beleive that Paul infused the pagan religion of Set into the doctrin of the belief system of my Lord Jesus and HIS word. NO, hon, your right, JESUS did not WRITE the Bible , which as anyone can see covers the whole time from the beginning of man until the soon to come ending of time. The bible was written under the pen man ship of man BUT under the unction of the HOLY spirit which is GOD himself. But then, of course YOU knew this. Good night all. OH and P>S> ya'll. THE end of the Bible tells us the END of all mankind, What his or her fate is, cant be changed, cant be re-written NO matter whom beleives it or whom does not. |
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Date: 7/21/2002 11:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels From the religious historian whose "The Gnostic Gospels" won both the National Book Award and the National Book Critics Circle Award comes a dramatic interpretation of Satan and his role in the Christian tradition. With magisterial learning and the Žlan of a born storyteller, Pagels turns Satan's story into an audacious exploration of Christianity's shadow side, in which the gospel of love gives way to irrational hatreds that continue to haunt Christians and non-Christians alike. I would also recommend reading this book |
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Date: 7/21/2002 11:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
Development of the Concept of Satan prior to 300 BCE in Israel: Traditionally, Christians have believed that the Pentateuch [the first 5 books of the Hebrew Scriptures or Old Testament] were written by Moses under the inspiration of God circa 1450 BCE during the nation's exodus from Egypt. The book of Daniel was seen as having been written by Daniel himself, in the 6th century CE, etc. Conservative Christians still believe this today, largely because the Bible mentions the identity of its authors in many locations, and conservatives believe the Bible to be inerrant. However, analysis of the Bible as a historical document since the late 19th century has convinced essentially all non-Evangelical Old Testament scholars that most of the Pentateuch was not written by Moses. It is rather made up of a mixture of writings and editing by three individuals or groups: in 950 BCE by "J", 750 BCE for "E" and 539 BCE for "P". Deuteronomy was written in the 7th century BCE, and Daniel was written in the 2nd century BCE. In the following material, we will assume that the liberal interpretation is correct. Among those books of the Hebrew Scriptures written before 300 BCE, the term "satan" (root word "s'tn"  appears often. The word is derived from the original Hebrew verb "satan" which means "to oppose." The Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek was widely used in the early Christian church. They translated "satan" as "diaboloc" from which we derive our English term "devil" and "diabolic."The word is used to refer to: Any person acting as an accuser or enemy. For example: 1 Samuel 29:4: The Philistines were distrustful of David, fearing that he would be a satan. (translated "adversary" or "someone who will turn against us" . 2 Samuel 19  2: Shime-i apologizes to King David. The King rejects the apology, saying that they should not be a satan to each other (translated "adversary" or "opponent". 1 Kings 5:4: King Solomon is talking to Hiram, the King of Tyre. He says that now that there is neither satan nor bad luck to stop him, he can build the Temple. (translated as "adversary", "enemy", or "one who opposes" . 1 Kings 11:14: God raised up Hadad the Edomite as a satan against Solomon. (translated as "adversary," or "opponent" . a divine messenger sent by God as an adversary: Numbers 22 2 & 32: God appears in a dream, telling Balaam to go with the princes of Moab to meet Balak. But when Balaam sets out the next morning on his donkey, God is angry with him for some reason, and sent an angel/messenger to kill him. The donkey saw the angel and took evasive actions. The angel was invisible to Balaam, who beat the animal. The donkey asked Balaam why he had beat her three times. Balaam, who doesn't seem to realize that a talking donkey is an unusual occurrence, replies. The angel then appears and explains that he has come as a satan to kill him. (translated as "one who opposes, "withstand," "adversary" a member of God's inner council; a type of chief prosecutor of Heaven: 1 Chronicles 21:1: Satan, "a supernatural evil emissary," acting on God's behalf, has influenced David to hold a census. The census is taken, and God is angry for an unknown reason. Perhaps God does not want humans to be aware of the strength of the army. God then offers David his choice of one of three punishments: a 3 year famine, 3 months of fleeing before his enemies' armies, or a plague throughout Israel. David selects the plague and God killed 70,000 men (and presumably a similar number of women and many tens of thousands of children). In 2 Samuel 24, the identical event is described. However, this time, the text states that God influenced David to hold the census. Even though God had incited David to enumerate the men of Israel and Judah, he was still angry that it was done and punished the Israelites with a plague. The writings in 2 Samuel are believed to be the original account; 1 Chronicles came later. It is believed that when Samuel was finally edited (circa 560 BCE), the editors thought that all supernatural actions (good and bad) came from God. When Chronicles was written over a century later, (circa 400 BCE) the author viewed God as operating indirectly through his helpers. Job 1 and 2: Satan is described as one of the members of the court of heaven. God mentions that he is impressed at the behavior of Job, a blameless man who has lived an upright life. Satan attributes Job's commendable behavior to his good fortune and says that Job would soon curse God if he had a string of really bad luck. God decides to conduct an experiment with Job; he instructs Satan to destroy all that Job has: kill his animals, murder his employees, and murder his innocent children. But, even after these disasters, Job still does not curse God. So God instructs Satan to up the ante by returning to earth and destroying Job's health. Here, Satan is portrayed as a servant of God whose task it is to dutifully carry out evil deeds at God's instruction. Zechariah 3:1-7: Satan is again portrayed as a member of God's council. Here he objects to the selection of Joshua as the high priest. There are no passages within the older parts of the Hebrew Scriptures where Satan is portrayed as an evil devil - the arch enemy of God and of humanity. At most, he is described as a henchman who carries out God's evil instructions. There is no dualism here between two powerful supernatural entities: an all-good God and an all-evil Satan. God is portrayed as performing, directly and indirectly, both kind and evil deeds. When: plagues are to be sent, or a great genocidal flood is created to kill off almost all of humanity, except for Noah and his family, or Onan was killed because he practiced an elementary form of birth control, in violation of a cultural tradition, or Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because its residents were abusive to the needy and to strangers, or Lot's wife is turned into a pillar of salt because she looked the wrong way, it is God who does it. In essence, the ancient writers of the early Hebrew Scriptures looked upon Jehovah as performing both good and evil deeds. A good indication of this is found in: Isaiah 45:6-7: "...I am the LORD and there is none else. I form the light and create darkness. I make peace an create evil. I the LORD do all these things." (KJV) or in Job 9 2-23: "...[God] destroys both the blameless and the wicked. When a scourge brings sudden death, he mocks the despair of the innocent." (i.e. laughs at the suffering of the victim) or in Lamentations 3:37-38: "Who has commanded and it came to pass, unless the Lord has ordained it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?" Development of the Concept of Satan prior to 300 BCE in Ancient Iran: Historians have traced the foundations for the concept of Satan to the Indo-European invasion circa 2000 BCE. This migration of what are now called the Kurgan people, emigrated from what is now southern Russia into the Near East, Middle East and Europe. They were polytheists, and worshiped at least one Mother Goddess and one male God. Their religious beliefs were based on the Hindu sacred writings of the Vedas. Those who settled in western Europe became the Celtic people with their religion of Druidism and perhaps what is now called Wicca. Those Kurgans who settled in the Middle East developed religious belief along different lines. They developed the twin concepts of salvation and damnation after death. Upon dying, they believed that soul of the deceased must pass over a narrow bridge on horseback. It was called the "Bridge of the Petitioner." Rashu, a god, judged each soul and decides who is sufficiently righteous to cross the bridge and who will fall into a type of Hell with "flames and terrible smells." 1 Once salvation and Heaven, (and damnation and Hell) were created, then the stage was set for the next logical concept: that of a Devil. Zoroaster (a.k.a. Zarathrustra, Zarthosht) is believed by some to have lived circa 628 to 551 BCE. (Other estimates run from 600 to 6,000 BCE) He was a Persian prophet in what is now Iran. Like Jesus, he was recorded as having been tempted by Satan; he performed many miracles and healings and was considered a supernatural being by his followers. He introduced a major spiritual reform and created what is generally regarded as the first established monotheistic religion in the world. He rejected the worship of the established trinity of Varuna, Mithra and Indra. The new religion, to be called Zoroastrianism, involved the worship of a single male god, Ahura Mazda, the "sovereign, lawmaker, supreme judge, master of day and night, the center of nature and inventor of moral law." He created the heavens and the earth. In short, he had all of the attributes attributed to Jehovah by the ancient Israelites, but with a different name. Zoroaster also recognized Ahura Mazda's twin brother: Angra Manyu, (a.k.a. Ahriman) the God of Evil. The only things that he created were snakes, demons, and all of the world's evil. 2 The old gods of the previous polytheistic religion became the demons of the new faith. Thus, Ahriman became the first Devil that the world has seen, and his assistants became the first cohort of demons under the control of a all-evil deity Zoroaster taught that Ahura Mazda and Ahriman would continually battle each other until the God of Evil is finally defeated. At this time, the dead will be resurrected, a Last Judgement will divide all the people that have ever lived into two groups; the bad go to Hell for all eternity; the good go to Paradise. As author Gerald. Messandé so eloquently wrote: "The framework of the three monotheisms [Judaism, Christianity, Islam] had been erected. The Devil's birth certificate was filled out by an Iranian prophet." Development of the Concept of Satan, 300 BCE to 100 CE: The Scofield reference Bible closes the Hebrew Scriptures with the book of Malachi, 397 BCE. It opens the Christian Scriptures with Matthew's gospel in 37 CE. This is a gap of over 4 centuries. This interval has traditionally been called the "intertestamental period." But modern Bible scholarship has found that reality is not quite that neat: The Book of Daniel seems to have been written circa 165 BCE, in the middle of the intertestamental period. It recounts events 4 centuries earlier and is written as if Daniel was the author. The Book of Esther was apparently written in the 1st or 2nd century BCE The Gospel of Mark was the first gospel. Most Old Testament scholars date it to about 70 CE. Matthew came along later, circa 80 CE. Many Jewish writings have been preserved from that era. Some were collected and form the Apocrypha (Greek word meaning "hidden." . These books appear in the Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures) and in the Vulgate (early Latin translation of the Bible). They are found in Roman Catholic Bibles and some Protestant Bibles. Conservative Protestants do not accept the Apocrypha as inerrant or inspired by God. During the last three centuries before Christ's birth, the portrayal of Satan underwent a major change. The Zoroastrian / Persian dualism concept appeared in Jewish writing: God was now looked upon as wholly good; Satan as profoundly evil. History was seen as a battle between them. No longer was Satan simply God's prosecuting attorney, helper, or lackey. Satan, and his demons, were now humanity's greatest enemies. Author G. Messandé 1 theorizes that from the middle of the 5th century BCE until 53 BC and later, the Jews were on particularly good terms with the Persians. From the latter's religion, Zoroastrianism, the Jews picked up a number of concepts: the immortality of the soul, angels, and Satan. Of the 3 main divisions of Judaism (Essenes, Pharisees, Saducees) in the 1st century BCE, the Essenes seems to have focused the most on Satan. Jesus and his disciples accepted the common belief of the 1st century CE that mental illness and some physical ailments were caused by indwelling demons. "Unclean spirits" are mentioned 7 times in Mark, once in Matthew, 3 times in Luke and once in Revelation. A "dumb spirit" and a "deaf spirit" are each mentioned once in Mark. Luke talks about a "spirit of infirmity" in his gospel, and, a "spirit of divination" & an "evil spirit" in Acts. The concept of "violent possession" appears for the first time in Scripture. Demons are believed to posses individuals and cause them to mutilate themselves, to collapse, to foam at the mouth, to thrash around on the ground. Demons are seen as the cause of many physical disabilities, including blindness, spinal deformities, inability to speak. Satan figures prominently throughout the Christian Scriptures: Jesus is tempted by Satan (Matthew 4:1-3, Luke 4 ). The Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons in the name of "Beelzebub, the prince of the demons." (Matthew 124)In the writings of Paul and the other apostles, the character and range of activities of Satan and his demons is further developed. God and Satan are seen as the two most powerful forces in the universe. The duality between an all-good God and all-evil Satan is firmly established. Examples are: 2 Corinthians 11:12-14: Satan is seen to be responsible for false teaching by "false apostles, deceitful workers." 2 Corinthians 12  : Satan has given Paul a "thorn in the flesh" to trouble him. 1Thessalonians 2:17-18: Satan hindered Paul's travels I Timothy 1:19-20: Hymenaeus and Alexander have fallen away from the faith and blasphemed. Paul had excommunicated them and "delivered them unto Satan." Here, he is expressing the belief found also in 1 Corinthians 5:5 that once a believer is excommunicated, he will be no longer protected by God. Satan will torment him and perhaps purify him. The author of the Book of Revelation develops the concept of a great battle between Satan and God at the end of the world as we know it: Revelation 2  -9: Satan is portrayed as the power behind the Roman Empire's persecution of the Christians. The author apparently condemns ex-Christians who pretend that they are Jewish in order to avoid the persecution. They are referred to as the "Synagogue of Satan." Revelation 2 -9: This passage is similar to Revelation 2-9. Revelation 12  : Satan, viewed as the great dragon, and his fallen angels were cast down to earth. Revelation 20 -3: Satan is bound and sealed into an abyss for 1000 years, so that he could no longer deceive the nations. Revelation 20 -8: Satan is released after 1000 years, deceives the nations, and gathers them together for war. He loses. References: G. Messandé, "The History of the Devil", Newleaf, London, England, (1996) A.S. Mercatante, "Good and Evil in Myth & Legend," Barnes & Noble, New York, NY, (1978) |
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Date: 7/21/2002 11:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
Hi Debbie, I agree with you of course. Evil as been in existance since before Christianity. I suspect most cultures and beliefs have a name for this 'Evil', though perhaps the definitions/powers of it are somewhat different. For Christians that name may be 'Devil' or 'Satan' or 'Lucifer' whatever...for my people, the Maori, our name for this Entity/Personification of 'kino' (Evil) is called 'Ngaarara'...which roughly translated means 'arachnid/poisonous insect/creepy crawly'. In our culture (or so I have been taught) this being 'Ngaarara' originated shortly after 'Creation'...the forming of the universe, the seeding of the stars and the Creation of Man. Ngaarara was jealous of the favour 'Io' (the supreme Creator) showed for Man, who 'Io' created in his image...okay, does this sound familiar 'Created in his image'...bear in mind this is the Esoteric Maori Religion I am speaking of...ancient beliefs...which was in existance waaaaaaaay before the coming of the Missionaires and the Bible to this country. Anyway...Ngaarara saw these Man Creatures as inferior to him and the other 'Gods' (now, Gods are as close an English translation as we have to the word 'Atua' that the group Ngaarara was part of/one of), they were weak, they were mortal, and yet Io (the supreme Creator) favoured them and provided them 'Te Ao'...'The World'. So Ngaarara rebelled against Io and swore he would inhabit 'Te Ao' (The World) in an effort to make it his own, pollute the mind and 'wairua' (spirit) of Man to spite Io. This belief structure was around BEFORE Christianity came to these shores. Peace,  |
Date: 7/22/2002 12:35:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
Hmmmmmm.....you say "Now, many say that Satan, the devil or what ever name you give him came at the same time as Christianty started. NOT SO. Christianity did not start until the Christ, JESUS, came." I have to disagree with you. What many say is that....the interpretation that fundamentalist Christians have of "Satan" comes from Christianity. There has always been the concept of good and evil, light and dark. And especially the myth of a being who controls evil....so it would be incorrect to say that Christians invented that myth....that is an old myth...still going around, I might add. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 12:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
The origins of the "Satan" that most Christians now use though does come from interpretations posed in the New Testament and definitions imposed by Christian rulers over time. In the Old Testament or the "Tanakh" of the Jews....Satan is interpreted as a Servant of God....using the term Hasatan, meaning "Adversary" or "Tempter" and is not even something that is personified. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 12:42:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
By the time the New Testament rolls around Satan has become something altogether different. He becomes a distinctive personality who embodies the POWER of darkness. In this new interpretation he becomes the "ruler of this world". It is only at this time that he actually becomes defined as a "being". |
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Date: 7/22/2002 12:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
As organized "Christianity" evolves...Satan takes on a description of having horns, a goat's hindquarters, a tail, and carrying a pitchfork. The idea of Satan is used by the Christian church to denounce detractors, pagans, atheists, and Jews as "agents" of the "Evil One". He becomes the "Whipping Boy" for troublesome elements within and without the "Church". So....the idea of "Evil" new....nah. But....the definition that some now use to define other's who do not conform to their beliefs is something that has been created since the beginning of organized "Christianity". |
Date: 7/22/2002 1:40:00 AM
From Authorid: 46266
LSG, Lady Nyx, we aren't talking about the Pagan Catholic view of Satan, which parallels PAN, SET, TAN, (SET-TAN) etc. I believe what Lady Nyx is talking about is the BIBLICAL Satan - the 'god of forces' which most of the world worships today.  |
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Date: 7/22/2002 1:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 46266
Sorry, I meant to say "I believe what Firstborn is talking about!" LOL |
Date: 7/22/2002 1:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 28946
Well Firstborn, to make it short and simple as I am, I agree with you. Satan, devil, diablo are mere names for an evil that is as old as time like you said! Great post my friend.  |
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Date: 7/22/2002 1:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
Vert...I'm not talking about the Pagan Catholic Satan either. I'm talking about the one who is the scapegoat for all irresponsible behavior and who is the "Whipping Boy" (as I stated) for those Christians who like to refer to others of differing beliefs as worshipping Satan, simply because they will not believe as Christians do. |
Date: 7/22/2002 2:34:00 AM
From Authorid: 39272
all i know about this is my brother plays the video game diablo   |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:22:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
LadySpirit Guide The post is on satanism and the things I have presented for information. This is not a debate about the Bible and whom wrote it. Thank you for your information. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:28:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Agent smith: thanks and all that does sound really familiar. And thats what I'm trying to say, basically is that all this was around before Christianty. Gee LadyNxy: Sorry I dont agree with you . VERT::: Thanks for stopping in. Penny44, yep!! and thanks. SuperMonkey:, I've never seen it. Be back in a couple of hours. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
Gee, FB. What part don't you agree with and why? I would be interested to hear your thoughts specifically. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
By the way, FB. I do like the title of your post, specifically the part that says "whoever you choose to call him", because as we know, he/it has been many things to many things through history, especially through the Christian history. It is known that it was not even until 447 CE at the Council of Toledo that it was voted and declared that the Devil was an actual entity. It's nice that they could vote him into existance so that they could proclaim their detractors to be followers of their own creation. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 8:20:00 AM
From Authorid: 15621
LSG, I dont think many today believe moses wrote all 5 books, how could he write of his own death? Isaiah 45:6-7: "...I am the LORD and there is none else. I form the light and create darkness. I make peace an create evil. I the LORD do all these things....The KJV does say Evil, but the Hebrew Tanakh does not so?...it says woe....  |
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Date: 7/22/2002 8:21:00 AM
From Authorid: 15621
Lady Nyx, Adversary is not a servant......where does it say he is the SERVANT of God? |
Date: 7/22/2002 8:21:00 AM
From Authorid: 11528
Good Morning Firstborn, I just read Your post and have to admit that I am perplexed by the misinformation in here. Nothing personal but it bothers me that You would post this because it is not accurate at all and it will fill some kids with fear. I am also very disappointed that You would use Ezekiel CH28; as a description of Satan. I urge the readers of this post to go to that chapter and read it themselves to see that the chapter clearly states that this is a prophecy against the King of Tyre, Verse 2 clearly states " But You are a MAN not a god" Verse 7 clearly states that god will bring foreigners against the king of Tyre "they will bring thier swords against Your beauty and wisdom and pierce your shining beauty; they will bring You down to the pit and You will die a violent death" verse 30 "You will die the death of the uncircumcised at the hands of foreigners" I have spoken declares the Sovereign Lord. Now then FB either god lied or his prophecy did not come true or Satan has been killed by mortal men if we are to believe Your story. Which is it. BUT wait it gets better, the Chapter continues and god once sagain states verse 12 "Son of Man, take up a lament concerning the King of Tyre" verse 18 By Your many sins and dishonest trade You have desecrates Your sanctuaries, so I made a fire come out from You, and it consumed You and I reduced You to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching". Verse 19 All the nations who knew You are appalled at You; You have come to a horrible END AND WILL BE NO MORE". So what are You claiming FB, are You saying that Satan has been destroyed already long ago and no longer exists? or are You willing to admit that these verses You used to describe Satan are actually describing the King of Tyre as god himself says twice in that chapter. Im really bothered that You would try to slip this in as a description of Satan. That is pure deciet against those who do not know any better. By insinuating that this is a description of Satan You also make God out to be a liar because twice in that chapter he states that it is a prophecy and a lament to the King of Tyre. *Shakes head in disbelief and walks away* Enki  |
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Date: 7/22/2002 8:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 15621
Enki, Deb is a Christian, most Christians believe that chapter to be speaking of Satan...she did not do anything purposely....or for the sake of deceit I think we both know that......I wil lsay, after reading it over and over I tendto agree with you now, or at least lean that way...so Iwould not state it as fact..but Im not deb (thank god)...lol.....but if she believes it and thinks she has proof for it, then she can say that much.....I have many beleifs that differ from that of non believers...MAny beliefs they belief in I feel is blatantly false and can be proven so, I also think they are keeping people in darkness concering God..but it is there right to do so....cant wait to discuss this with yo uguys in person |
Date: 7/22/2002 8:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
The statement that there is an "epidemic of ritual abuse of children sweeping the country...." is FALSE and very misleading; and TYPICAL of something coming from the pulpit and or those who wish to get support for their dogmas, their paranoid and insecure rantings, and to SCARE people. It would give SOME people the mistaken belief that ALL the missing and exploted children somehow wind up in the hands of ritualistic followers of satan. I have no idea where Firstborn gets her 'facts' and statistics. The other night, JOHN WALSH, the founder of the National Center For Missing & Exploited Children addressed the very question "Is there an epidemic.." and he said NO, that actually statistics show that they are down from last year and the year before. He was ask this because of the recent cases in Utah, and California, that has dominated the news. Whatever, the attempt at misleading people to think that all of those involve "satanic worship or ritual" is wrong. I have NEVER read about, nor do I hear about some widespread "epidemic", and I sure as heck am PLUGGED IN to an awful lot of news sources, as well as the many child abuse sites, etc. Oh, and I also give a HUGE high ^5 to Enki! Thanks, Enki. So good to see you around here these days.  |
| Date: 7/22/2002 8:59:00 AM From Authorid: 59167 interesting..... |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:01:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
Sixgun, what I am saying is that in the Old Testament (which actually is the Tanakh) Satan is interpreted as the Servant of God....that is that he has no power of his own and can do nothing without the permission of God. As an example, in Job 1:6-8 "There was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest though? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the Lord said unto Satan, Has thoug considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?" .... In this passage Satan is shown as the servant of God who urges God to test Job. He cannot do it himself...he cannot do it without the permission of God. .... As an example of the beliefs of the Old Testament and the power being totally in God and not in Satan (as he is only the servant) Job 92-23 "[God] destroyeth the perfect and the wicked. If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent." ..... God, not Satan does these things. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:03:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
Bravo, Enki. Great points that needed to be stated. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:04:00 AM
From Authorid: 15621
Ok, I think were confused on the word servant.....Satan can do nothing without God letting or enabling him to BUT..he deos not SERVE God......He is called adversary..thats a big difference between servant |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:06:00 AM
From Authorid: 11528
Good Morning Thinker, if there is an epidemic of child ritualistic abuse and sexual abuse sweeping the country then look no further than the Christian churches because the highest percentages of child sexual abuse comes from within that organisation. Bye for now. Enki |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
Sixgun, if he can do nothing without the permission of God....then he must be doing the will of God. The teaching and belief at the time of the Tanakh was that this "Satan" served God's will. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
But, Sixgun, more important than quibbling over one word....to me....is the fact that the "Devil" had to be voted into existance as an actual entity by the Council of Toledo. Why is that? Who was he before that? It is apparent that the interpretation of this "Whipping Boy" changes throughout history. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 15621
The reason PEople say Satan is reffered to in that verse is...at verse 13 it talks of a different person or entity...the one being spoken of here was CREATED.....was in the GARDEN OF EDEN....was an ANOINTED CHERUB....so I would say fro ma christian standpoint....the verses speak of an earthly king, and then switch to speak of an spiritual king (satan)...unless of courses someone can answer the questions above? |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 15621
Lady Nyx, you said "The teaching and belief at the time of the Tanakh was that this "Satan" served God's will. WRONG.....Truth be told, in that Time the people (for the most part) did not believe in an actual being named Satan....they believed in a .well, its hard to explain...I have 3 books on Jewish beliefs and customas and can spell it out if you would like....although it is clear fro mthe bible some DID IN FACT believe in a being called Satan....the whole did not as a religion....or at least, it seems so... |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:25:00 AM
From Authorid: 15621
If he was serving Gods will he would not be doign anything bad ?..LOl...I mean thats a twisted thought if you think about it...Im good, you must do my will...punish Job?......you see....and whoever or whatever Satan is.....he has remained the same throughout History no matter what any council says.......so YEs, the interpretation of him may have changed, but he hasnt |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 11528
Sixgun, I really do not want to get into this but if You are going to go back to the garden of Eden and start talking about the Serpent in the garden then I would suggest You get very familiar with the Sumerian writings and just who the serpent was and what he did for mankind before the hebrews twisted the story around. In the Sumerian writings the serpent in the garden was Enki, he wasnt a snake as the Hebrews would have us believe. He was the scientist who blended our DNA with the DNA of visitors to earth. He was also the one who saved a remnant of mankind from the great flood. The Hebrews, when they wrote thier version of the creation of man had adopted the idea of monotheism and blended the characteristics of the Sumerian gods/visitors Enki and Enlil into one new god called jehova. The whole problem with religion is that people think the old and new testament are the word of god, when in actuality the old testament is a twisted and brief hebrew retelling of far older writings and the new testament is a product of roman manipulation and lies designed to manipulate and control the masses of people within thier crumbling empire. The results of what the hebrews and romans did for thier own benefit has been constant strife, warfare, fear and guilt and a whole lot of suffering. You best had better pick up Sitchins book again and re-read it, You obviously didnt see what the hebrews did when they changed the story around. You may also want to look into a person named Julius Ben Panthera, he was the real father of this Jesus character and that is documented by the hebrews/jews and the christian church as well. This manipulation has got to stop and the truth be known or the wars will continue until there is no one left alive. Bye for now. Enki |
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Date: 7/22/2002 11:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 15621
I found the book extremely interesting BUT....me and KK were watching a show and they had talked to a few experts on the Sumarian culture and history and to a gentlman who could read the language.........numerous experts said that when Stichen was presented with the sumarian writings and some hebrew writings ( I think it was hebrew)...he could not decipher OR tell them apart.....Some say different, I do think some of his writing has some crediablilty |
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Date: 7/22/2002 11:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 59073
Uhhhhh... :{ I prefer to call him Satan... I named my furby Beelzebub... LOL!!!!!! *hugz* PUNKy_CHiK |
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Date: 7/22/2002 11:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 11528
I find that very difficult to believe Sixgun since Sitchin is a widely known linguis with a degree behind him and since he is welcomed at Museums throughout the world and even allowed to access thier basements to study items that are not on display. Given that he was unable to decipher Sumerian Cunieform and Hebrew I find it implausible that he was presented with an award from his peers a couple years ago for his lifetime works in deciphering the Sumerian writings and presenting them to the wold in a language we all can read. It does not matter though, The Enuma Elish was not translated by Sitchin, it was translated before he was born and it still stands and is an accurat translation. The Enuma Elish or Creation tablets are what the hebrews used for inspiration when they creatd thier twisted version of history we read of in the old testament. Bye for now. Enki |
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Date: 7/22/2002 12:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 15621
Interesting Enki..Im not trying to defame the man either....But Iasure you thats what was said on that show..they were even poking fun at him because of it?....But, I do know he is supposed to be one of a handful that can translate these things.....you knw, my curiosity is now aroused..LOL, I must go find out about this man |
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Date: 7/22/2002 1:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
Sorry, Sixgun, I believe you are wrong. The Jews did indeed believe in an "adversary" Hasatan. It was their way of dealing with the bad things that happened in life....their way of coming to terms with a God who seemed to hold both good and evil. So much easier to place the "evil" acts on a Satan. However...the Jews were not willing to believe that this Satan had power over their God, which is why Satan could not do anything without God's permission. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 1:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
Sixgun, as a reference you might try "The Origin of Satan" by Elaine Pagels. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 1:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
Hiya, Enki. The Earth Chronicles by Sitchin are some very fascinating and mind opening reading. You seem to have a good knowledge of him, and why not since you are named after one of the Leaders. LOL. I have often thought that what he says regarding the "Giants" and the Nifilim makes more sense than some of the other outlandish stories we are asked to believe. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 3:29:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
WEll ladyxy for one You said that the origins of the "satan" that most Christians now use does ocme from the interpretations posed in the new testament and actually ON that ONE your somewhat right, as many only go by what their preachers tell them and do not or have not studied the old testament at all or they would see that satan, or what ever name one calls him, comes into the picture straight in the garden of eden. THEN you are saying something about ""As organized "Christianity" evolves...Satan takes on a description of having horns, a goat's hindquarters, a tail, and carrying a pitchfork."" This is a misconception of WHAT those that DO NOT believe, think that WE believe. None that are truely aware of the enity called satan, have ever thought of him in this way as its not the truth. Satan was a defined being in the old testament. Before Christianity.1 Chronicles 21:1 ¶And Satan stood up against Israel""Job 1 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."" Now if nothing more that last scriputre has already Identified satan as being around before Christianity, and that Not only could he present himself before the lord but He was "going to and fro, walking up and down the earth. So for you to say that Satan was USED and STARTED by Christiains to use against people that would not conform to thier beliefs are wrong. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 3:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
Oooops, by the way, Sixgun, I agree that in the Old Testament they did not believe in Satan as a being....that's what I was saying....he was not even something personified. However, they did believe that this "whatever the word would be" was used to serve the will of God in being adversarial and accusatory to man. As I said....it was at the Council of Toledo in 447 C.E. that the Devil was voted into existance and declared an actual entity. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 3:37:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
LadyNxy, He was called many things EVEN before the Christian era. Oh and because "man" voted and declared the Devil and actual entity that is when he became one? I dont think so. ITS only because man brightened up and could not denigh it any longer. ENKI: I got these things off web site, many different ones, and No they were not all, if any of them Christian. I dont see how anything in this would fill kids with fear? Enki, that part of prophecy has NOT come true, it will happen. but this is why they call it prophecy as It hasnt all happened yet. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 3:40:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Sixgun, that is ok. As I've told people time and time again that when my post say By Firstborn, then they are my words. When they say POSTED by firstborn, then I got the stuff off a web site. But if Enki wishes to believe that I threw that scriputre in their to decieve people, well hey thats up to him. And to be quite honest with you, that was MY BAD, as being as the ignornant person that I'm, I did not bother to read the scriputre that was in the Web site, I just ASSUMED the people that put it up knew what they were talking about. So MY bad on that one and a LESSON learned. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 3:44:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Thinker, because JOHN walsh said it doesnt make it so, and I think that is some pretty sorry proof to back up your statement of, ...." is FALSE and very misleading; "" I suppose you believe every thing that is written in the "star" too? So john walsh says its down from last year and even more so down from the year before that. Well If that is true, I THINK that is great, however your missing the point. THERE should NOT be Any "DOWN" IT should not be happening it all. So acutally you have proved my point that it is happening and does happen, even IF its DOWN this year. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 3:45:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Thinker, because JOHN walsh said it doesnt make it so, and I think that is some pretty sorry proof to back up your statement of, ...." is FALSE and very misleading; "" I suppose you believe every thing that is written in the "star" too? So john walsh says its down from last year and even more so down from the year before that. Well If that is true, I THINK that is great, however your missing the point. THERE should NOT be Any "DOWN" IT should not be happening it all. So acutally you have proved my point that it is happening and does happen, even IF its DOWN this year. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 3:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
I have to cook supper, be back soon. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 3:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Wow, there are lots of smart people on here and ya'll have just blown me up. Sixgun good debate job, Keep it up as you are smart in these matters of some of this stuff they are talking about. AND to the rest of it, well guys/gals, I CHOOSE to believe in what God says about all this and what I know in my spirit to be true. If ya'll wish to argue amoung each other, please do. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 4:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 27161
good info however he can come in many forms and has been the greatest friend the christian church has ever had he has kept them in bussiness all these years hail satan  |
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Date: 7/22/2002 4:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
I would take the word of JOHN WALSH any old day, FB, to some charlatan in the pulpit, with regards to the numbers of missing and exploited children. HE should know Deb, since his OWN child was abducted and murdered, thus he MADE it HIS mission from that day on to bring people to justice and or see that children are put into a national data base regarding these matters. HE KNOWS THE NUMBERS, Deb. YOU don't; and the religious hucksters don't want the truth; with their made up statistics they just want to scare and coerce people into believing "the world is going to hell in a bucket" "the endtimes are here" and blame EVERYTHING on "Satan". No, I didn't "prove" YOUR point. YOUR point was to make it appear as though ALL these numbers of missing children were involved in satanic ritualistic abuse by saying there was an "epidemic" and THAT is FALSE and misleading. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 5:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
A few links to view Christian art ... from a prayer book - http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/objects/o1921.html ... Sculpture of St. Michael overcoming the Demon - http://www.augustins.org/en/collections/bdd/fiche.asp?num=Ra+583 ... Christian artist Jean de Mandeville - http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/objects/o2922.html |
| Date: 7/22/2002 6:21:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 The Ben Pandera story is widely discredited by serious scholars.The Alethas Logos by Celsius which told the story of Ben Pandera is no longer in existance and is known through Origen's attack on it. This was written approximately 178 A.D. well after the lifetime of Jesus Christ. The Jews could certainly be expected to label Jesus as a illegitimate child along with many other slurs. They certainly would wish to attack the virgin birth. Ironically Judaic sources do imply Jesus performed miracles, these are attributed to sorcery, not God.Judaism and Christianity were not exactly friendly rivals. Og |
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Date: 7/22/2002 6:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 11528
Sorry Hugo but Your information is wrong. It is by Origens quoting from Celus, (Not Celsius, which is a measure of Temperature) that we know Celsus even spoke on the Ben Pantera story since the church destroyed the original records. Another church source that has emerged is the writings of St. Epiphanius. The Ben Panthera story was so widely known and accepted in early church history that the name was inserted into genealogical records of Mary and jesus by early church historians. Still the church isnt the only source of this info. You can read the Talmud, the Koran, the Mehgheehlla scroll for further confirmation. Now we know why Mary escaped to Egypt, it was to cover up her infidelity because the penalty for unfaithfullness to a betrothed was death. Bye for now. Enki |
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Date: 7/22/2002 6:59:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
LadyNxy, there is one thing YOU fail to understand. First I didnt say that about the horns and junk, you did not me as that is pure bunk. I dont need a lesson in anyones chrisitain writing or history, I only Need what God has told me. This is where your so confused. YOU are going by WHAT lots of bench warmers tell you about what WE christiains think. Hon,your not inside our heads. YOU dont know. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:00:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
ff666, gee, hadnt seen ya for so long I thought you left usm. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:03:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Thinker, OH Pleasssssssssssse, because his son was murdered, he is now an authority? And yep hon, you did prove my point. bye bye. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:03:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Thinker, OH Pleasssssssssssse, because his son was murdered, he is now an authority? And yep hon, you did prove my point. bye bye. |
| Date: 7/22/2002 7:03:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 Sorry Enki this story does not originate until over a century after Christ's death. It was a fable made to discredit Christianity. Of course rival religions would include it. Og |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:04:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Thinker, OH Pleasssssssssssse, because his son was murdered, he is now an authority? And yep hon, you did prove my point. bye bye. |
| Date: 7/22/2002 7:06:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 John Walsh ought to be ashamed, profiting off his son's death. Og |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:09:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
See enki, Og, All of you set and quote all these sources and you as well as ladynxy are very very smart, informed people as far as all your stuidies have proven, However, All of this means NOTHING, as ya cant take it with ya when ya die. And of course ya know that I believe In what God of the Bible, creator of this world has to say, over any of the sources that have been stated on this post. NOW, THIS post was for information NOT to turn into a debate. AS this is not the debate section, So I will Kindly turn it over to those of you that are smarter in the books of the world. I have all the knowledge I need from my God and Lord. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 11528
Sorry Hugo, but these writings were in the Christian writings as well as the Hebrew writings. It was widely known at that time. Since most people in those days were unable to write and the only writers were in politics and religous circles then the story originated within the same circles that gave You the bible. You can deny and pretend but it is the truth. Mary was a women of ill repute and jesus was the son of a roman soldier. By the way Hugo, pertaining to a conversation we had a few months ago,, how about those markets, I was right about that one too wasnt I. Bye for now. Enki |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 27161
FB me leave usm lol eh guess i need to make myself more noticible eh lol hail |
| Date: 7/22/2002 7:29:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 Markets go up and down. Your economic arguments pertaining to the money supply actually supported a high inflation rate in the future.If the fed had acted on your arguments and restricted money growth during a recession we would be much worse off. Sorry not a real good procrastinator there. The Ben Pandera story did not originate until over a century after Christ's death.Sorry it was a fable.The virgin story preceded it. Arianism was once a widespread belief among Christians.Minority opinions mean little. Og |
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Date: 7/22/2002 7:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 11528
Inflation always follows excessive money supply months later, wait and watch. Markets are tumbling and billions are lost and people are getting out. Moetary policy in the states is destroying the country. But that is off topic. Now as for Ben Panthera, if it was just a fable/myth why would the church historians and writers record it, and why would they insert the name into the genealogical record. That is a ridiculous thing to do if it was supposed to discredit the church. Try some lateral thinking for once Hugo. |
| Date: 7/22/2002 7:54:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 It was a minority opinion,Enki. Why did Origen attack the story and why were re the copies of the Alethas Logos destroyed? Because the Church disagreed with it that is why. If the FED had listened to you months ago we would be much worse off today. Most of the market losses have been due to the bursting of a speculative bubble with overly high P/E ratios. It will recover. A good time to buy. Og |
Date: 7/22/2002 7:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 59261
Being an Atheist. I say look at religion and you see who has been the source of bloodshed and war since the beginning of time. GOD HAS. And you want to worship that??? Blahhh Satan had nothing on GOD since he did in fact create him to begin with as far as you Xtains are concerned. ~*Robyn*~  |
| Date: 7/22/2002 7:59:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 Would not have been a TV star if he had not had his son decapitated, A truly Faustian bargain. Og |
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Date: 7/22/2002 8:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Oggie AKA Hugo, That is a cheap shot. I'm quite sure that John Walsh would give up ANYTHING he has now, or any TV "fame", ANYTHING to have his son back....anything. |
| Date: 7/22/2002 8:07:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 Who said that Thinker? Are you off your medicine again? Og |
| Date: 7/22/2002 8:08:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 I am sure he would. Og |
| Date: 7/22/2002 8:18:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 Now I see where you were coming from,Thinker, let me apoligize for the "off your meds" statement. Og |
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Date: 7/22/2002 8:19:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Sorry Ladynxy, Had to delete some of your more offensive comments to me the Author. If you wish to be rude, I will continue to delete you. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 8:21:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Sorry Thinker but those kind of attacks wont be tolerated either. All others shall also be deleted. Stick to the post ladies, NOT personal attacks. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 8:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
Oh, hon, you can dish it out but you don't like when people quote your own words? In that case I would think you would be deleting yourself. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
"Attacks"!!?? LMAO! I was defending John Walsh. The ridiculous remarks made by Oggie AKA Hugo, can stay up? His remarks saying I am "Off my meds" can stay too? Yeah, Deb, You're right up there in the running, dearie, with Free Girl. Lady Nyx, you said it girlfriend! |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:25:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
What ever ladies. Doesnt matter what I say, as you will see it in what ever "crooked" light that you choose. So I'm just not going to argue with you, plain and simple. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
OH and thinker, I do agree with what you said about john walsh would give anything to have his kid back, that was awful what happened, however I still do NOT think of him as a leading authority on satanic activities in this nation. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 9:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
OH and thanks for the compliment on me being in the running with freegirl. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 10:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
Crooked light? This from the person who writes "If you wish to be rude, I will continue to delete you." and "those kind of attacks wont be tolerated" and "Stick to the post ladies, NOT personal attacks". All I have done is quote back your own words to you. Sounds like you might want to listen to your own self. |
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Date: 7/22/2002 10:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
As for sticking to the debate, I posted several websites of Christian art depicting the Devil in the animal form that you stated None of the Christians believed in.....care to comment on that instead of going off topic? |
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Date: 7/23/2002 7:48:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Yes, Ladynxy, I do. Your remarks when so called quoting my words, twist and turn them to say somthing that I'm not saying. Its an old trick you do to confuse me and LOL, most times it works, especially when I'm NOT paying that great of attention. You lumped "all" chrisitians into this group of those that believe in those cute little symbols of what satan looks like. I'm telling you that all christiains dont think that way, or believe that stuff. I said NONE that are truely aware of the enity called satan have ever thought of him in that way, *horns and all that junk* you were talking about. NOW YOUR saying that I said NONE of the Christiains believed in it. I didnt say that, once again your twisting my words. Care to tell me why you do that? |
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Date: 7/23/2002 8:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
Riiight....the old "your twisting my words even though you are quoting my exact words" excuse. Look, you admit that you don't know your stuff on this....don't blame me if you do not understand. As for lumping "all" Christians....if you would do your research and study the history of Christianity, you would understand what I am talking about. As for the "blanket statements"....where do I say "all". On the contrary, use your own statement..."NONE that are truely aware of the enity called satan, have ever thought of him in this way as its not the truth." None....a blanket statement if I ever saw one. I don't mind that we don't agree....what I mind is when you insult your own self by admittnig you don't understand the subject and then insult others when they don't agree with your faulty opinion on the subject. If you don't know your stuff just leave it at that or take the time to find out more about it if it means that much to you....don't just attack others because they do not believe as you do and because they have brought data to show why they believe the way they do, when you have not. |
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Date: 7/23/2002 1:42:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
AND ladynxy, YOU said: Date: 7/22/2002 12:39:00 AM From Authorid: 23610 The origins of the "Satan" that most Christians now use though does come from interpretations posed in the New Testament and definitions imposed by Christian rulers over time. In the Old Testament or the "Tanakh" of the Jews....Satan is interpreted as a Servant of God....using the term Hasatan, meaning "Adversary" or "Tempter" and is not even something that is personified. " I told you that you were wrong about that. NOT all, of the orgins about satan DO CHRISTIANS use because of the new testament. I gave you scriputre for it so I wont go through it all again. And you do twist my words to make it look like I said something that I did NOT say. YOU said  ate: 7/22/2002 12:46:00 AM From Authorid: 23610 As organized "Christianity" evolves...Satan takes on a description of having horns, a goat's hindquarters, a tail, and carrying a pitchfork. ""I told you that this too is basically a blanket statement as It does NOT hold true for all Christians as you would hope that people believe. I've seen you complain that when we try to explain a scriputre to people, Because we can see that they are not understanding what it is meaning, you always say," Oh the old your its not interpretated right Line" I know what the bible satan is, I know that he was used way before Christianity and anyone can look in the old testament and see that. Now if you want to bring out all these other books, thats up to you. That still does not change what I believe according to the word of God. That is the book that is true in my opinion and the only one that Counts.And sweetie I've just read over the whole post again and I cant see anywhere where I "insulted you" However I have kept your remarks where you insulted me personally, the ones I deleted. So good day to you hon, have a good one. As I will not respond to your comments any more on this post. |
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Date: 7/23/2002 4:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
Hmmmmm....still deleting comments that don't agree with your views. How the heck do you expect to discuss anything with anyone if you keep deleting comments? Why even ask any questions if you delete people's answers? For that matter....why even post anything? |
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Date: 7/23/2002 5:27:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
If you wish to leave some information, leave it. If its rude, its gone. |
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Date: 2/26/2003 12:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 59214
I don't subscribe to the christian faith, WHATSOEVER. Hence, I don't think 'god' 'jesus' or 'satan' ever did or will exist. (Thats my opinion) But if satan did exist, lol, i'd be on HIS side. How is abiding by a bunch of (imo) useless rules (aside from the common moral ones of don't kill ppl!) JUST to get into 'heaven'. Its never enough for ppl to say, 'be a good person, and don't worry, ur afterlife will be fine!' NO. They have to add filler rules and regulations to keep u within the certain faith. (can't go to heaven unless ur baptized christian?!) What about the rest of the world who simply doesn't belive in 'christ' but is a moral, loving caring human being? ME? I'd rather be on the red dude's side, have my fun while I'm alive, and go to 'hell'. Whatever, i'll deal with it. But then again I believe in reincarnation. So if I'm a 'bad' person in this life, in the next one I'm at a loss. Oh well. Viva la diavolo.  |
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Date: 2/26/2003 12:56:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Honey all I can say is someone needs to save you, For you know not what you say. I pity you. Yep reincarnation, another lie from the little red dude. But hey its YOUR eternity and if you really knew about the little red dude and what is in store, you would change you little tiny heart in a BIG heart beat. But ya know I do what Jesus tells me to and that is to tell people of him. Now if you die in your sin, your blood sure wont be on my hands. Have a good life while your still in the flesh because with that line of thinking that is going to be the only good part of your spiritual exsistence. Good day. |
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Date: 2/27/2003 11:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 59214
Oh please. Get over yourself. You need to be saved from your own lies. Religion was started in the first place to explain things man couldn't understand. The first man said, "Why are the stars in the sky?" It unerved him that he didn,t know, so he made up a story. Then man figured out the REAL reason, and the story died. The second it can be proven that your fantasy of 'god' and filthy 'jesus' are wrong, I'll be laughing. And you'll be standing alone. Pathetic bible thumper. I was being polite to start off with, but you started the whole, "Im right! You need jesus thing!" Well guess what, IM right, and you need a life. Basing it around an invisable man in the sky is just silly. |
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