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Rapture thoughts... by Tom

  Author:  51173  Category:(Discussion) Created:(7/21/2002 7:55:00 PM)
This post has been Viewed (1046 times)

My wife recently told me that her sister Christine had questions about the Rapture following a discussion with a co-worker. (Christine is a Oneness Pentacostal, a denomination that doesn't believe in the Rapture.)

The following, (with exception of the general greetings, which I deleted here as it deals with family issues) is what I wrote to her. I decided to post it here on USM as well, on the hopes that someone might stumble across the information and might find it informative. ________________________________________________________________________________

First off, there are three different theories as to when the Rapture will occur: just prior to the rise of the antichrist, about halfway between the antichrist's rise and the return of Jesus, and at the end of the antichrist's reign. Each of these are called Pre-Tribulationism, Mid-Tribulationism, and Post-Tribulationism (or Pretrib, Midtrib, and Posttrib for short).

The word "Rapture" actually doesn't occur in the Bible; it is a kind of shorthand for the events described in John 11:25, 1 Cor 15:51-55, 1 Thes 4:13-18 and Matt 24: 22, and . The word "rapture" comes from a 4th century Latin Vulgate Bible translation of the Greek word 'harpadzo' (occurring in 1 Thes 4:17). The word is often translated as "caught up" or "snatched", but "rapture" simply has a more pleasant sound to it.

There is even precedent in the Old Testament for the Rapture - Enoch, in Genesis 5:24 (NIV) "...walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away."

Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 (KJV), says the following:

51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54: So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55: O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

As I said earlier, there are three theories about when the Rapture will occur - most Christians, including myself, fall into the Pretrib category. This means that just prior to the rise of the antichrist first those that died as saved individuals will rise from their graves alive and kicking, then those of us who are already alive and saved will disappear, leaving our clothes, jewelry, hair clips, wallets and fruit-of-the-looms behind, where we will join Jesus as He takes us to Heaven to be judged (2 Cor 5:10, Romans 14:10, 1 Cor 3:11-15). After this, while we are enjoying the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Matt 24:21), on Earth the antichrist is setting up his power structure.

Some people think it is the Rapture itself that will give the antichrist the authority he needs to assume power. This makes sense to me; since Christian pilots disappearing would result in crashing airplanes, Christian drivers disappearing would result in cars crashing, patients disappearing from operating tables, children under the age of consent disappearing before their parent's very eyes, and t.v. cameras catching the disappearances as they happen would cause massive worldwide panic. Up will come a charismatic figure who will calm the world population, possibly someone who has recognizable Christian religious authority, who could explain why only Christians disappeared by saying "I'm Christian and I didn't disappear; it couldn't have been the rapture because I'm here." He will then come up with some other explanation for the disappearances that will fool many; some have even been offered now before the rapture - members of the New-Age religions (Wicca, NeoPagans, Hare Krishnas, and such) have gone on record as saying they prophesy that Humanity is on the verge of a spiritual evolutionary event, and those "intolerant" towards the validity of other religions (meaning Christianity saying it is the "ONLY" way to God) will not evolve to our next step. I can hear someone saying that the reason the Christians disappeared was due to the fact they "could not evolve because of their intolerance". Yet it must also be said that this will also trigger the biggest mass acceptance of Jesus worldwide there has ever been. More people will be saved because they were "Left Behind", than at any other time in human history.

Pretribs believe this is how the events will generally play themselves out. Your friend is a Posttrib Christian; she believes that the Church will endure some of the persecution the antichrist dishes out as he attempts to silence both the Jewish and Christian faiths and be worshipped as God himself. She believes that Christians will be snatched up into the air just moments before Jesus returns; kind like a yo-yo is thrown down and immediately comes back to your hand. I don't see how this is scriptural in light of Revelation 3:10 (KJV): "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." -- but I don't think this affects a person's salvation for believing this.

I do think it misses the point of what the Tribulation is about. Most Posttrib and Midtrib think that the Rapture and Tribulation is God's last attempt to get people to accept Jesus. Not at all! Those NON-JEWISH persons who will flock to Jesus after the rapture are merely an afterthought. They aren't who He's after.

The whole book of Revelation reveals God's plan to redeem His first love - Israel and the Jews. All the wars and famines and persecutions that will occur are merely God's way to wake the Jewish people up from the lethargy they have been in for 2000+ years. Think of it this way: the whole Revelation scenario is God saying in a soft voice to the Jews "I gave you the Law, and you ignored Me. I gave you Grace through My Son, and you ignored Me....."

SLAM!!!!

(sound of a hand slamming on a tabletop)

".....NOW do I have your attention?"

The Tribulation is God's way of waking up the now almost dormant spirit of worship within the Jewish people and making them understand who Jesus really was. This is proven in Revelation 4-18. In these chapters, which describe the Tribulation period, the Church is not mentioned at all. This can only be explained two ways - either the Church replaced Israel as God's first love (which is not supported by scripture - the "dry bones" passages in Daniel and Jesus' reference in the parable of the Fig Tree figure heavy here) or.... the Church isn't there - a pre-Tribulation rapture.

There are Christians who believe there will be no rapture at all; these are called postmillenialists. They believe that the Church will simply cause the world to get better and better and usher in the Kingdom of God in this way. One look at the newspapers or the evening news should dispel this notion, but there are some big name Christians who do believe this - Rev. Robert Schuller (T.V.'s Hour of Power) is probably the most famous. And, once again, this belief is not something that would affect salvation. ________________________________________________________________________________

Peace, Tom

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Replies:      
Date: 7/21/2002 8:27:00 PM  From Authorid: 3642    Intresting I must say I Have my own theorys ....but I enjoy peeking in To what others think along These lines ,,,,One thing I have found not two many can do it objectively ...they usally have exstream emotions were religion Is concerned Many Blessings to ya ....There Tom ....and thanks for The view   
Date: 7/21/2002 8:34:00 PM  From Authorid: 29928    Tom I agree with you 100%, I also believe we will be raptured prior to tribulations. That is the pri,ary reason the Left Behind series has been created, so that those that are left behind, can know the truth and not fall prey to the anti-christ. There are also some "christian" faiths that do not believe in revelations at all..they believe it has already happend..my parents go to a church like that, but we know better and so do they..Amen. Hugs,  
Date: 7/21/2002 8:54:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 51173    KeepSake, Thanks for the comments - very true, religion does push people's buttons, I suppose because it cuts to the core of who we really are. The fear of discovering we're wrong about God, and ourselves, will bring out the violence and hostility in us all, unless we're careful. --------Savannah, Thanks dear, I agree that the Left Behind series is a good "primer" for the pretrib position. I don't understand how people can say we will endure the tribulation when the scripture says otherwise. Hugs back. Peace, Tom  
Date: 7/21/2002 9:02:00 PM  From Authorid: 29928    I just cant believe my mom's church says we've been thru it..I don't remember seeing hail of fire, or the water turning to blood or scorpion stinging creatures and I have yet to see Jesus come thru the clouds in the east and if they believe that, then how do they explain still being here...they are christins after all...better yet, why am I still here??? So many people do no want to believe this, but when everyone they love just suddenly poofs, they will then. Hugs,  
Date: 7/21/2002 9:05:00 PM  From Authorid: 50435    Are you Jack Van Impe? LMAO. Sorry, had to say it. Long time no see. I love reading your posts. Good to see another one again...  
Date: 7/21/2002 9:44:00 PM  From Authorid: 23610    Hiya, Tom. Hey, very interesting piece. Thanks for the info. I too do enjoy understanding others beliefs. I may not agree with it all....but it is informative. Thanks.  
Date: 7/22/2002 5:33:00 AM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 51173    Savanah, they may interpret the prophesies figuratively; many people do. I once read that the best way to interpret the Bible is literally, unless the context prevents you from doing so. Some folks just don't like doing that with the Bible. --------Gally, it has been a while. And no, I'm not Van Impe; I'm John Hagee incognito. But don't tell anyone or I'll yell into a microphone at you. =^P --------------- Lady N, thanks. I trust you have been well. I wanted my sister-in-law to understand the different concepts, because she was a follower of a minister names R.A. West, in West Virginia. He died recently and this sent her into near shock. I don't know the full story, but it seems that either he taught or she believed he taught that only those who attended his (West's) church would go to Heaven. It sounded cultish to me when I have spoke with her in the past. When she mentioned her co-worker's conversation, and her questions I thought maybe what I wrote to her might prompt self-study on her part, something I get the impression West discouraged. Peace, my friends, Tom  
Date: 7/28/2002 7:19:00 PM  From Authorid: 14254    Very informative post as usual, Tom. You are an asset to the thought-life of Christians at USM. Here's to you, friend!  

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