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Europe questions 'righteous war' Free Girl

  Author:  27678  Category:(Debate) Created:(1/25/2002 8:57:00 PM)
This post has been Viewed (1012 times)

Europe questions 'righteous war'

22.01.2002 The handling of al Qaeda prisoners involves more than human rights, reports RUPERT CORNWALL.

WASHINGTON - The controversy that has erupted over America's treatment of its Taleban and al Qaeda prisoners at Guantanamo Bay is more than just a spat over human rights.

It reflects the increasingly complex post-Cold War relationship between the United States and its European allies.

America believes it is conducting a righteous war to rid the world of a deadly enemy that will stop at nothing to achieve its fiendish ends.

Europe, though, increasingly sees an arrogant superpower on the loose - one that after a brief, tactical flirtation with cooperation is back to its old unilateralist ways, ignoring international conventions and treaties as it chooses, spitting in the face of world opinion, safe in the knowledge that its power is unchallengeable.

There is, undoubtedly, truth in these charges. America, Donald Rumsfeld the Secretary of Defence makes clear, will do this its way, whether the world likes it or not.

But the complaints also reflect a jealousy and resentment of America's sheer power, and the not uncommon European view after September 11 that the US somehow "had it coming".

It cropped up, more justifiably, in the denunciations of the civilian casualties from the bombing campaign.

Now it is surfacing in the criticism of how America deals with its new prisoners, caging them in barbed wire pens half-open to the elements, with only a foam mat on the floor.

Lost amid the discussions is a genuine dilemma: how do you deal with some of the most dangerous people on earth?

Those at Guantanamo Bay are not genteel prisoners of conscience.

They are cut from similar cloth as the perpetrators of the attacks which killed 3000 Americans and are ready to sacrifice their lives if offered half the chance of a repeat.

British critics might remember that even at its most ruthless, the IRA never used suicide bombers.

And where else could they have gone? Afghanistan, where US and British troops are sleeping in tents, was not an option, nor was the US mainland, where their presence could have been a magnet for more terrorist outrages.

Other US bases overseas either did not have the facilities or were not suitable. British critics are vocal enough about distant Guantanamo Bay; what would they have said if al Qaeda's finest had been corralled up at Greenham Common?

To return Saudis, Pakistanis, Egyptians to their native countries could invite a justice far more summary and brutal than that being meted out by the US - or, equally conceivably, virtual exoneration for fear that punishment might set off domestic political unrest.

A critic of America might accept these arguments. But they do not address another complaint: why doesn't the US formally declare its captives prisoners of war?

After all, America is fighting what it proclaims itself to be a "war against terrorism"; indeed, by construing September 11 as an "act of war" President George W. Bush invoked the right of self-defence contained in the United Nation's charter.

Thus the attack on Afghanistan, on whose battlefields the prisoners were taken. Surely, by any interpretation they are prisoners of war.

Not so fast. America talks of war, but war was never officially declared.

The Pentagon says those taken prisoner were not members of the Afghan Army, although that is debatable in the case of Taleban soldiers.

The al Qaeda fighters are different. Most of them were not Afghans, but "mercenaries of faith" mostly drawn from Arab and Islamic countries. They wore no uniform, the Pentagon insists, and had no rank.

Thus the terms of "battlefield detainees" and "unlawful combatants," have been constructed to distinguish them from prisoners of war.

These sophistries have two serious purposes.

First, if they were officially categorised as prisoners of war, Americans would lose their right to interrogate them beyond establishing their name, rank and military number.

These men are being held, first and foremost, to help the hunt for new facts that can be fitted into the far from complete mosaic of al Qaeda, and for clues as to the whereabouts of Mullah Mohammad Omar and Osama bin Laden.

Battlefield interrogators have done some preliminary work. Now the FBI, the CIA and the Defence Intelligence Agency will have their own, far longer turn at Guantanamo Bay.

But there is a second, more subtle reason the detainees are not declared prisoners of war, which gives ammunition to Washington's critics.

The US is out to avenge September 11, and this is a war of example.

The world has seen how US military power has wrecked al Qaeda in Afghanistan. It is now seeing what happens to those taken prisoner.

America calculates that others tempted to take up arms against it may have second thoughts.

The question is where legitimate security requirements end and police state intimidation begins.

Round the clock lighting of cells may be deemed a sensible precaution.

But sleep deprivation and constant light are techniques of police states.

The problem is less America taking the law into its own hands, than what law it chooses to behave by.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=787307&thesection=news&thesubsection=world

Are we fighting a "righteous war?"

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Replies:      
Date: 1/25/2002 10:10:00 PM  From Authorid: 30229    FreeGirl.. fair question hon.. but I have to say that I am really changing my thinking of events that happened during and after 9-11, and I have had rude awakenings on a lot of this, and I am still digesting most of it.. . I guess you remember other posts where I argued with you about how RIGHT Bush was huh? Well, guess what? Time and people like you have made me SEE what is going on... Thanks   
Date: 1/26/2002 1:41:00 AM  From Authorid: 19382    No. America is out for revenge. "Europe, though, increasingly sees an arrogant superpower on the loose - one that after a brief, tactical flirtation with cooperation is back to its old unilateralist ways, ignoring international conventions and treaties as it chooses, spitting in the face of world opinion, safe in the knowledge that its power is unchallengeable." " the US somehow "had it coming"." they did. It was certainly NOT deserved, but America had been asking for it. none of their "humanitarian" oeprations were that at all. All they did was protect their intrests, nothing more. That bombing of the embassy in africa, americans came in, searched for americans only, found them all, then took off. That doesn't show very well for them does it. America shows a high-and-mighty attitude towards the rest of the world, and the "not so well" countries and people of the world, cannot take so much that they will violently act against it.  
Date: 1/26/2002 1:43:00 AM  From Authorid: 19382    Why did America bother to start a war in the Gulf, if they weren't going to finish it? The sanctions are bloody useless, the only people they affect are the civilians, Saddam can get anything he wants smuggled in. And you deny the civilians what they need, of course they are going to turn to Saddam, becuase he will show them "the evil americans that are keeping the much needed supplies from getting here".  
Date: 1/26/2002 7:27:00 AM  From Authorid: 22852    I feel this war will not do a darn thing other than breed more hatred against America. But hey President Bush had to do something to keep the heat off him about the Enron thing that he knew was coming up. And you just wait and see that another major thing is going to happen on our soil soon to get the press off the Enron scandel because they are closing in on the President and he will not stand for that.. Just a thought.  
Date: 1/26/2002 7:40:00 AM  From Authorid: 11528    Hi Freegirl, it is becoming painfully obvious that this entire 9-11 incident was manipulation all along. The troops and carriers were already stationed in the area, all the new legislation they passed had alrady been drawn up ahead of time, it was just a matter of time. They call it a war against terrorism but it really is just advancing the goals of a select few who will prosper from the actions taken in Afghanistan. The more I dig into this 9-11 story the more it doesnt add up with what the Govt. and media are telling us. I am really starting to think that global Hawk technology was used to fly those planes to the targets. Bye for now. Enki  
Date: 1/26/2002 9:39:00 AM  From Authorid: 17525    Only You could find this Freegirl. I'm glad you post this as is demonstrates very clearly the arrogance with which the US is now and had been handling itself in world affairs. The big bully can do whatever it wants. Yes, I gues you could say we have our own little "JIHAD" going, just as the opposing side does. Good post, we'd never see this in mainstream US media that's for sure. Keep 'em coming Freegirl!  
Date: 1/26/2002 9:50:00 AM  From Authorid: 15228    Who cares what the arrogant euro's think?? ShipPagan, we didn't start a war in the Gulf, we didn't start this war, but we will finish it this time and to bad you've gotten cold-feet about it Gail. Seems as usual people's short-term memories have failed once again..Luckily the internet wasn't around when Pearl Harbor happened, Americans seem so easily brainwashed reguarding there own country, that we would probably have sent an official apology to the Japanese for whatever made them so mad at us.. Why are the Americans always wrong and the arrogant ones? Are we the ONLY country full of so many crazy conspiracys? Why is EVERY other country morally superiour to the United States? If we are so bad, why are so many people trying to get in?....Kelly  
Date: 1/26/2002 9:51:00 AM  From Authorid: 15228    Ask the morally superiour French about torture...They may not believe in the death penatly, but they could give lessons in torture of their terrorists...Kelly  
Date: 1/26/2002 12:39:00 PM  From Authorid: 9295    I said some things similar to this a while back and got completely blasted for it and labled anti-american. Hopefully by now people will be able to look at things a little more objectively.  
Date: 1/26/2002 7:17:00 PM  From Authorid: 37354    It is great the US is telling them NWO goons where to go. Hugo
Date: 1/27/2002 8:21:00 AM  From Authorid: 41067    I beg to differ, the IRA has used suicide bombers, most notably to attack an amry barracks in (i think) County Armagh. Secondly, if not at war, is America not simply out to kill people who they feel have done them wrong? (I can't quite seem to find the right way of saying what I mean there, but I hope the feeling of what I mean can be detected). Lastly, Well said ShipPagan, and Kelly, everyone is trying to get in because they know they can get away with far more in the US than anywhere else. (-11 was a tradgedy, but it is being used as an excuse to target people who are different.  
Date: 1/28/2002 10:48:00 AM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 27678    Gail, nothing is every black and white, or right and wrong. There are many complexities to this situation, and we are forgetting our humanitarianism, and hatred and revenge are not going to make us feel better, Kelly. Rusure, sent you a personal note, regarding this. ShipPagan, I couldn't agree more. Seems our scheme is to actually destroy a culture of people, not get the "criminals." I propose that Osama is on a Carribean Island somewhere, after having done his CIA deed. Stormchaser, you are absolutely right about Enron. Perhaps they knew it was coming down before the attack? And I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see a "biological" attack take place, to take the heat off some more. Fact is, they need to be thrown out on their keisters, and "real Americans," need to take control and fix the mess they are getting us into. We are on the slippery slope, and if we don't get a handle on things, God only knows when and how it will end. NUKES? Enki, Osiris, thanks for both of you and your insights into this garbage. Of course, you know that I realize that you both have complete understanding here. No wonder CHRISTIANS get such a bad rap. Sick, ain't it? Nova, welcome to the club. Hugo, the NWO is real, but this isn't the forum for that. Tandris, I agree. Many supporting this may find themselves the targets, after all the present enemies are killed, and I am convinced that Hitler not only killed the Jewish people of Germany, but indiscriminately killed ANYONE he could. Thanks to you all for your replies.  

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