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Date: 10/12/2001 9:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 34912
"But perhaps we have already spent too long on this question. If what you want is an argument against Christianity (and I well remember how eagerly I looked for such arguments when I began to be afraid it was true) you can easily find some stupid and unsatisfactory Christian and say "So there's your new man! Give me the old kind." But if once you have begun to see that Christianity is on other grounds probable, you will know in your heart that this is only evading the issue. What can you ever really know of other people's souls-- of their temptions, their opportunities, their struggles? One soul in the whole creation you do know; and it is the only one whose fate is placed in your hands. If there is a God, you are, in a sense, alone with Him. You cannot put Him off with speculations about your nextdoor neighbors or memories of what you have read in books. What will all that chatter and hearsay count (will you be able to remember it?) when the anesthetic fog which we call "nature" or "the real world" fades away and the Presence in which you have always stood becomes palpable, immediate, and unavoidable." C.S. Lewis--- Mere Christianity p. 184  |
Date: 10/12/2001 9:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 39258
I'm agnostic.. i dont go to church.. i dont worship any gods.. i feel that they can neither be proved nor disproved... -telsha  |
Date: 10/12/2001 9:22:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42790
I also know alot of people who push christianity on people <</BLINGBLING\>>  |
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Date: 10/12/2001 9:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 34912
I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with Christianity... some people have bad experiences at school, too. That doesn't make school bad, does it? I chose to become a Christian and it has changed my life in ways I could never exlain. I wouldn't trade this experience for aything. Be a little more pragmatic and little less hostile. |
Date: 10/12/2001 10:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 37900
Good post, BlingBling. 1) Why should God give anyone a sign? If he doesn't exist, He can't anyway; if He does, He owes us nothing and is not accountable to anyone. Anyway, there is no sign He could give that would convince an unbeliever. 2) Again, the existence of God is crucial. If He doesn't exist, there certainly is no punishment for not believing in Him; death is the end. If He does exist, I am accountable to Him. I may not agree with the speed limit, but if I don't obey it, I will pay the consequences. What we label unfairness may be the finality of choices we have made. It's not God's fault if I die jumping from a tall building; I violated a law. 3) If God exists, He makes the rules; they are not negotiable: I can choose to obey them or disobey them. God is not augmented or diminished by my choices. If anyone "goes to hell," he or she will be going as an intruder; God says hell was created only for the devil and his angels. The first part of your fourth point is, I think, a reference to "Pascal's Wager." For me, believing in God is a positive situation, even at that level. Your observation about giving, if followed by all Christians, would elminate the need for fund-raisers by churches. In a larger context, I'd be overjoyed if the government required only 10% of my income to function. Alfrowi.  |
| Date: 10/12/2001 11:57:00 PM From Authorid: 39210 Great post man. I agree with you. |
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Date: 10/13/2001
From Authorid: 44385
It hurts me to hear these things that you think about such an awesome God, the only one true God. First of all I just want to tell you that throughout the entire Old Testament God used angels, fire from the sky, miracle after miracle and the people still were hard in their hearts that they couldn't accept God for who He is, people wanted God to do and accomplish their own selfish wills and not God's will. So because of their stuborness he sent Jesus Christ to take all the sufferings of the world. And even when Jesus was with them they still refused and killed him, after all of the miracles and signs that he showed the people of their time. Even Adam and Eve turned to the false teaching of the devil when they sinned against God. God gave them eveything in Paradise. If you were to have a child and raised them in a good neighborhood, loved them and gave provided for their every need and then when it came that time that they were old enough to choose for themselves and they chose to move away from you and decided to live in poverty what could you do? Would you force them to come back to or would you just wait with arms wide open until they decide they need you? God doesn't send you to Hell, by chosing to follow the ways of sin you condemn yourself because you know that there is another choice but you refuse it. I just pray that you and all others that have these kind of thoughs seek the Lord and he will open your eyes if you allow him to and he will show you the truth. All these answers can be answered if you pray and seek God's face in the Word that he has provided. Once you start this he will open your eyes and take down these barriers to show you that he loves us and he is the only way, truth and life. Don't go on wondering these things seek God and you will be changed, no doubt!! Victori |
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Date: 10/13/2001 2:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 45078
God is a wondrous being. He is there for us ALL unconditionally. He does not judge, he does not disown you because you do not believe in him. But it is up to you the individual to give yourself up to him and invite him into your life. When you have an intuition it is God's way of whispering to you. I only say these things because he has helped me in my life. Through all of my bad experiences he is the one I have turned to for solace and comfort. If you open your heart enough to let him in, you will see what you have been missing out on. |
Date: 10/13/2001 6:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 17525
Hey BlingBling, good question, but you're asking it with so many pre-conceptions that you've already answered it. First, remove all of society's defnintions. Remove all of the tribal/biblical war-God concepts. Remove all theological condemnation threats. Remove all the opinions you've heard, the 'just-in-case, i better be ready' ideas. Remove all the hatred and intollerance religions teach against each other. Go out into the woods or to a deserted lake shore. For that matter turn off the lights in the wee hours of the morning. Close your eyes and listen. Be still. There you will find the pure nature of God, completely devoid of all of man's ramblings and rumors. The true nature of God is within you and all around you, and YOU are part of IT! Churches and books are merely guides albeit very human and imperfect ones. The real essence of God cannot be caputured in writing or in ritual. It can only be experienced within. All religions claim their sole propriety to God. None of them are all right. Only you can claim YOUR sole propriety to God, and NO religion can take that from you unless you let it. It is your gift and your true nature. It is your destiny and your Home. Look within. The Native American's had their heads on straight. Just my opinion. Peace,  |
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Date: 10/13/2001 6:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 17525
Remember: We are not human beings having spiritual experiences, we are spiritual beings having human experiences. |
| Date: 10/13/2001 8:36:00 AM From Authorid: 37354 There must be a lot of people who only make $10 a week. Judging from all the people I have seen who only drop a buck in the plate.Hugo |
Date: 10/13/2001 9:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
You SEE that Hugo? Must mean you GO to church, and even then only to sit and watch what people tithe. Hmmm. . . I am one of those people who grew up with NO RELIGION. My parents did not force ANY belief on me. I came to have such FAITH in GOD because of my life experiences. What does THAT have to do with RELIGION? God Bless.  |
Date: 10/13/2001 10:06:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
God has given many signs as proof of His existence..He made the universe and placed everything in it to work altogether according to His plan..He made each and every electron,proton, atom,molecule,cell,etc which are all needed for the existence everything we know..He has brought all things together to produce the desired results..He alone made humans and set them to be above all other things He has created..He has shown an His extreme intellect and His power in ALL things..As for a personal relationship with Him,He has revealed Himself to those who come to Him as He has instructed..Christians do not have blind faith in what they believe..They truly know Him..God works in mysterious ways and His ways are past finding out..He has choosen to reveal Himself to the meek and humble,not the proud and accusers of this world..I am totally convinced that those who seek Him will find Him,but they must seek Him according to His wisdom and His ways which He has set before us..God says that we must seek Him with the desire to know Him..We cannot find Him any other way nor for any other purpose other than to do His will..I can see with your attitude,that you will not find Him..You have already convinced yourself that He does not exist and with that attitude,you will not find Him..May you seek God and His ways with the same attitude that He has instructed all of us to do..  |
| Date: 10/13/2001 11:43:00 AM From Authorid: 37354 Actually I go to church to look at all the cute gals. I just notice all the dollars when I am getting change from the collection box. Hugo |
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Date: 10/13/2001 12:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 10146
Beginning in Matthew 12:38 , It speaks of Men like You! Read what Jesus said! verse 38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. You have been Given Space to Repent, Yet you will not Believe the Sighn of Which He gave you. He was Raised From the Belly of the Earth, (Grave) same as Jonah was raised from the bellie of the Whale. People of Jonah's day repented, You will not, Because you will not believe the Sighn that has already been Given to you! Which Sighn do I speak of? Jesus Christ Your Creator GOD LIVES, Even though Mankind Killed HIM! You wish to see a Sighn today? You will get what you wish for, when it is too late for you. When will this be? When you See/Feel America and the Judgement that is "brought upon Her", The way Judgement was "spared" at Neneveh!! In Jesus Name I Come to You.  |
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Date: 10/13/2001 1:34:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42790
Pacific Soul:Well I am not going to settle down on a thing that I can not see, if someone is so obsessed with something they will believe they see something or say luck is actually just god helping. |
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Date: 10/13/2001 1:36:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42790
Victori:Anyone can say something happened, but whether it did happen is another story. There is NO PROOF whatsoever that god actually did do those things. All there is is one of the biggest fiction books read, called "The Bible" |
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Date: 10/13/2001 1:41:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42790
Dearhart, show me one sign that proves he exists. One actual FACT, that cannot be doubted. There is none, he has proven himself by doing nothing. People's minds can make them beleive so much, even if it isn't true. |
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Date: 10/13/2001 1:43:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42790
Haadam, just as any religeon would do when they wrote up their rules or laws of the religeon. They just trying to make an excuse for those who do not believe, for those that question and don't believe are the one's who aren't blinded by worries or doubts in their lives. |
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Date: 10/13/2001 3:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 10146
Do you believe the Non Believers of those days (When Jesus Died and Came Alive from the Grave) Which were Historians, but also gave reports for You to read, that also states they too, (The Non Believers in Jesus) witnessed that "He" was Crucified, and Burried, and Yet They Saw him Alive, later after he was resurrected? Even though they Saw, with their own Eyes, To give you, the Report, They "themselves still" would not believe He was God. Do I exspect any less of You who did Not see, and yet claim your reason for disbelieving is because you need to see somthing to convince you. A "SIGN"!! You are going to get your "SIGN" very soon. Remember, that you have Again been told! When you see your Sign that is going to convince you of the KING of KINGS, and the Lord of Lords, It will be too late for You! Remember His words! |
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Date: 10/13/2001 5:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 17525
Haadam, I think BlingBling is asking about God, not about the attachments man has placed upon God. Further, I'm afraid there's only one true historian of that time which we can use as bona fide evidence of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus and that's Flavius Josephus. Unfortunately he's notably silent about it all. In fact, the silence it deafening. Please don't point to (Antiquities XVIII, Ch. 3, sec. 3) as evidence. It is a later insertion by Eusebius. In a word, it is a forgery. Just a note. Bling Bling, follow your heart. You know what love is, what charity is, what compassion is. Those are the earmarks of a good and spiritually developing person. When you ask human beings for answers, you get human answers. |
Date: 10/13/2001 6:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 37872
Priests in my religion don't have a set income. They live at their church and are supported by their church, they get what they need. There is a set amount of money that the church wants, but doesn't always get, they know that a person is only capable of giving what they are able to give, and that is always more than enough. Parents teach their children their religion because many of their morals and values come from that religion. How is a parent supposed to teach you? Certainly not away from their own beliefs. How you learn is up to you, but it is not brainwashing. You might as well ask parents to let their kids raise themselves. Further more if children do choose their own religions, than they are more likely to choose one that is not what their parents is, simply because that is the rebellious nature of children. The fact is people do end up tweeking their beliefs to their own standards sooner than later. As for believing in God because you've got nothing else to lose, that just means that the choice should be obvious. I'm not saying that you have to, and I'm certainly never going to question your free will. I am saying that if you don't believe, than don't ask the question, Who and what is God?  |
| Date: 10/13/2001 8:00:00 PM From Authorid: 37354 Ant 18.3.3 is clearly written by Eusebius. The jury is still out on Ant. 20.9.1. If Ant 20.9.1 is by Josephus than JC was an actual person. There is no reason for Josephus to have written about Jesus at all. He basically ignored the messianic movement. He was careful not to write anything which would aggravate Roman authorities. The NT itself was mostly written between 40-75 years after the crucifixion and is a quasi-historical document itself. I have little doubt that Jesus Christ was not a myth. Hugo |
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Date: 10/13/2001 10:44:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42790
Haadam, Jews don't believe he was the masiah (sp?) because they claim he never rose from the dead... so I don't understand how all the historians saw because obviously some didn't and saw he was still in the place they left him. |
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Date: 10/14/2001 2:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 34912
So how is God supposed to be proved to you? What would satisfy you? Do you even know what you are asking for? This is like a dog hoping to prove the existence math by putting it to the sniff test. What 'facts' would such a creature uncover this way? |
Date: 10/17/2001 2:05:00 AM
From Authorid: 45551
well the part of the bible i like best is where it says..."the kingdom of god is within" which could very well mean that we are our own gods we make the choices we wish to make and live with the outcomes we are our own judge and jury in the end and the most important thing is we can live with, and not regret the things we have or have not done. So i am my own god,i choose the roads take, and i am the only one that has to be happy with it..judge me all you like,in the end what will you have accomplished......nothing. MASTER OF FATE  |
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