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Date: 8/16/2001 9:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 609
I think its better for Priests to marry becuse then when they council married couples they can speak from exp instead of speaking in blindness  |
Date: 8/16/2001 9:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 30318
i mean God...  |
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Date: 8/16/2001 9:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 30318
i agree with you PHE. and i honestly think that Gos intended for everyone to reproduce. sex is the norm (if your married)... |
Date: 8/16/2001 9:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 3395
Then if man were better off having no relations with a woman, wouldn't it defeat the whole purpose of life? Then wouldn't that be kind of against God's will? Wouldn't he dislike what they did and think of it as a sin? It's kind of like how people say gay people go against God b/c they can't have kids that way....wouldn't that almost be the same thing(but not make them gay though)by saying they shouldn't have relations with a woman? Hmmm. And, if they could sleep with them but have nothing more to do with them then that would even go against the idea of marriage. Oh well. I think ministers should be married if they wanna be.   |
Date: 8/16/2001 9:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 35629
I think that it goes agaisnt the natural order of things.And that by being unmarried and celibate causes more problems for them than if they would just live normal lives.nightmaregal  |
Date: 8/16/2001 10:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Hi Hugo..Peter was married..Matt 8:14 "And when Jesus was come into Peter's house,He saw his wife's mother lying sick of a fever"..Paul teaches this in 1 Timothy 4:1-3..But the Spirit saith expressly,that in later times some shall fall away from the faith,giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies,branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron,FORBIDDING TO MARRY,and commanding to abstain from meats,which God created to be received with thanksgiving by them that believe and know the truth..In that passage God says that those who command someone not to marry is teaching false doctrine..Many of God's prophets in the O.T. were married..Jethro was a priest in the O.T. Moses married his daughter (Ex 2:15-23)In Lev 21 ..God gave laws regarding marriages of priests.."The priests shall not take a wife that is promiscuous or profane,nor a divorced woman"..In verse 9 is a law for the daughters of the priests..  |
Date: 8/16/2001 10:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
To understand what Paul was refering to,we must read further into the chapter..In 7 6 Paul says,I suppose therefore that this is good for the PRESENT distress;I say,that it is good for a man so to be..What the present distress was is that many of those who became Christians at that time were persecuted severely..The critical condition they were placed in would make it harder for one with family ties..Paul is saying that if a man had self control as he had,it would be better for him,but if they could not "contain" themselves,it would be better to marry..Paul isn't forbidding anyone to marry..If that would be the case,he would be contradicting what he taught later in 1 Tim 4:1-3,and other scriptures.. |
Date: 8/16/2001 10:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 5886
My girlfriend's father is a Priest... so I'm kinda glad he did get married. lol.  |
Date: 8/16/2001 11:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
Ummmmm...wasn't Paul married?  |
Date: 8/17/2001 5:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
RUSURE hit the nail right on the head! "Priests" should be allowed to choose. If they wish to be married, they should NOT be stopped from doing so.  |
Date: 8/17/2001 6:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 35941
I'm not too sure what the bible states about alot of things. But I believe they should be able to marry. It seems like Priests are not "human" w/ all these rules & judgements. That must be pretty hard to have to walk a fine line & live up to high expectations. I see no reason why a minister can't be in love w/ a woman AND preach the ways of God. Canei  |
| Date: 8/17/2001 9:12:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 No, Paul is not preventing anyone from marrying. He is advising celibacy as a preferable state however. He refers to his celibate state as a gift from God. Hugo |
| Date: 8/17/2001 9:15:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 Those who council serial killers should all be serial killers themselves, so they will not be speaking from blindness. Hugo |
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Date: 8/17/2001 9:22:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 37354
1 Timothy 4,1-3 refers to the general prohibition of marriage. It does not prohibit a doctrine not allowing priests to marry. Nor does it prohibit such a small sacrifice as giving up meat 1 day a week. Hugo |
Date: 8/17/2001 11:03:00 AM
From Authorid: 34361
I just read this the other day, I can't remember which verse it is. But God states that if a man has trouble remaining celibate, to take a wife...Anyway, I think if they want to marry, they should---that's my 2 cents...  |
Date: 8/17/2001 11:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 35572
That's the stupidest argument I've ever read. Jesus also says that if your eye offends you to pluck it out. This is a strong argument for people to wear eyepatches.  |
Date: 8/17/2001 4:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 17825
but paul also speaks of the higher religious figures to be the husband of only one wife,in my opinion i think its the ones commanded to remain celibate that get in trouble with sin from what ive heard and saw so i think they should have a wife but only one LOL  |
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Date: 8/17/2001 5:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Hugo..I quoted scripture from the O.T. which shows that priests were married then if they so choose to be..I often wonder where did the idea of a "priest" having to remain unmarried begin with anyway..It wasn't practiced in the Old or New Testament.. |
Date: 8/17/2001 6:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 17525
LoL, I know what you're saying hugo, but I think a few things need to be clarified here for the sake of the discussion. FIRST: Ministers and priests are 2 different things, Ministers (Lutheran, Episcopal, etc.) can marry, Priests (Catholic) cannot. SECOND: What St. Paul said has nothing to do with the celebacy law of the Catholic Church. The celebacy law came into effect in the 1100's. Prior to that time priests, bishops, and even the Pope could and DID marry, spawning children who in turn became priests, bishops and Popes. THIRD: The celebacy law was brought into being primarily (church won't admit it tho) because of PROPERTY rights. The church did not want and spouses of priests, etc. gaining church property. FOURTH: The celebacy law has nothing whatsoever to do with the sexual activity or lack thereof of a priest. Celebacy is the vow to remain "SINGLE" or "UNMARRIED". I think you're talking about the vow of CHASTIDY, which is NOT required of a priest. It CAN be taken but it is NOT taken between the church and the priest. It is a PERSONAL vow taken between the priest and God. Remember, chastidy and celebacy are two different things just like priests and ministers. Just a note of clarification. My personal opinion I think priests should be allowed to marry. If you think about it, they cannot receive ALL the sacraments if they cannot marry. It has nothing to do with serving two masters. How could a priest effectively give marriage advice if he has never married? Peace,  |
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Date: 8/17/2001 6:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 17525
Additionally, Paul was a reformed womanizer. It stands to reason he would say something like that. |
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Date: 8/17/2001 7:23:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 37354
Celibacy 1)The state of not being married 2a) Abstentation from sexual intercourse b) abstentation by vow from marriage Celibacy under definition 2a encompasses chasity I never argued that the current stand of the Catholic Church has been the same from the beginning, just that you can use the Bible to justify their current position. Of course, the Bible can be used to justify everything from adultry, to incest to slavery. Hugo |
| Date: 8/17/2001 7:26:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 I do not feel you have to be a child molester in order to counsel child molesters nor do you have to be married to counsel married couples. Hugo |
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Date: 8/17/2001 10:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
No, but you WOULD be a better counselor if you were a former child-molester or if you were married than if you were not. You would understand first-hand the WHYS of behavior, not only the textbook answers. Experience is the best teacher. Some things are not understood until experienced. |
Date: 8/17/2001 11:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 22628
I think anyone, even ministers, preists, nuns and priestesses, should beable to mave a relationship if they want to. _TGIYC_  |
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Date: 8/18/2001 6:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 17525
Child molestation and marriage counselling are also two different things. I think you understand the logic here Hugo. No one is advocating sexual perversion in order to be able to understand it. Bottom line, unmarried priests cannot understand first hand the experience of marriage. Therefore they cannot speak from experience, only from textbook knowledge. What you wish to extend this logic to is your choice. That's all i was saying. Peace, |
| Date: 8/18/2001 2:02:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 Personally, After 20 years of marriage I do not understand it much better than when I first jumped into it. people who understand human relationships can make excellent counselors on marriage regardless of marital status. Hugo |
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Date: 8/19/2001 6:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 35572
Be careful, Osiris, about Paiul being a womanizer. There's just as much solid research out there that cliams that Paul was a homosexual. Read "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism" by Bishop John Shelby Spong. The book also has other well-documented sources for the Paul-as-Queer school. |
| Date: 8/19/2001 8:20:00 AM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 Outside of the Bible there is little evidence of Paul's existance. Certainly not enough evidence to conclude he was either gay or a womanizer. Hugo |
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Date: 8/19/2001 6:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
What does Paul being homosexual(again ?????) have to do with priests remaining celibate? |
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Date: 8/19/2001 6:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
??? Shadrach & Hugo ??? |
Date: 8/19/2001 7:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 27678
I think the words of Jesus and the Laws in the Old Testament are way more important than what Paul had to say and I also think that ministers should be allowed to marry. Considering all the homosexuality and child abuse that goes in the Catholic Church, they obviously should change their stance on this issue. And Rusure is correct - there is no law regarding celibacy in the Bible, only in Catholic Church doctrine. Free Girl  |
| Date: 8/19/2001 9:10:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 Was not Jesus Christ celibate? Should not this be the ultimate example to a Christian. Catholic preists who abuse children are very rare; that is why it makes the news. Much rarer than ministers like JJ who can not keep their zipper up. Hugo |
| Date: 8/19/2001 9:14:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 There is no law forbidding me from cheating on my wife in the Bible. Adultery is reserved to punish married women and men who consort with another's wife. Hugo |
| Date: 8/19/2001 9:19:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 Sorry, Free Girl most Christians consider what Paul had to say important. I guess you can pick and choose the Biblical books you like. A typical Protestant response. Have not Protestants edited the Bible enough already? Hugo |
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Date: 8/19/2001 9:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
Actually, Hugo, there is, and it is called FORNICATION. It is what it is called when 2 unmarrieds have sex. Adultery happens when at least one of the people is married. And yes, Jesus was celibate. Think about this: what would happen if people could claim to be one of HIS descendants directly??? *sigh* |
| Date: 8/19/2001 10:09:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 "sigh" And how many wives and concubines did Soloman have? Hugo |
| Date: 8/19/2001 10:14:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 The fact is the Bible degrades women worse than any Playboy magazine. It was written by a patriarchal society. It gives the father of the rape victim the opportunity to force his daughter's rapist to marry her. This is so he will not be stuck with unmerchandisable goods. What a holy book. Hugo |
| Date: 8/19/2001 10:26:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 The wisdom of the Old Testament, "If a man comes upon a maiden who is not betrothed, takes her and has relations with her, and their deed is discovered, the man shall pay the girl's father 50 shekels and take her as his wife, because he has deflowered her". the unerring Bible speaks more patriachal trash. Hugo |
| Date: 8/19/2001 10:28:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 Rape is 50 shekels, how many shekels is fornication? Hugo |
| Date: 8/19/2001 10:34:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 A married man who has sex outside of marriage does not commit adultery, according to the Bible, unless the woman is married. A married woman having extramarital sex faces the death penalty regardless of the status of her lover, Gee, that Bible is one great book. Hugo |
| Date: 8/19/2001 10:46:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 Applied for a job last week counseling child molesters. I was told I had to go out and molest at least 6 children before they would consider me for the position. Hugo |
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Date: 8/21/2001 9:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
Okey-dokey Hugo. Cya. |
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Date: 8/21/2001 1:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 35572
Actually, the Bible doesn't mention anything at all about Jesus' free time. The Bible does not say one way or the other whether he was celibate or not. |
| Date: 8/21/2001 8:42:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 We are speaking about Christian Ministers here, it is almost universally believed among Christians that Christ was celibate. Hugo |
| Date: 8/21/2001 11:20:00 PM From Authorid: 41296 It also says that if a man cannot live alone, that it is righteous to marry. If you need a woman, get married. If you don't, don't. |
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Date: 8/25/2001 4:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 27678
Shadrach is correct. The Bible doesn't say one way or another about Jesus' escapades or lack of. And I'm glad I'm a Protestant, Hugo, cause I can go directly to God myself - Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.00 and do not ask a priest for forgiveness and depend on the "infallible" Pope to tell me right from wrong. Free Girl |
| Date: 8/31/2001 4:50:00 PM ( From Author ) From Authorid: 37354 Unfortunately Freegirl you take this shortcut at your own peril. Hugo |
Date: 10/24/2001 9:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 31145
hmm..my old friend's mom is a preacher. And,...I dont think women are suppose to be, but oh well...its all in their point of view, and their frame of mind.  |
Date: 12/9/2001 1:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 40319
Well considering my grandfather is a minister...I'm glad he didn't remain celibate...I wouldn't exist!  |
Date: 3/7/2008 10:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 44960
Comment #50!! Just Couldn't Resist!! *Spirit*  |
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