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Date: 6/14/2001 5:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 30743
If people do not believe in God, I believe one saying to be true. If you do not believe in Him, it will offend your very ears to hear of Him. Course, there are some people that could be little less pushy about thumping. Ease them into love for God, so to speak, and not throw icy water on them...Jesus preached to those who would listen and to those who did not want to listen. He spoke of the love the Father had for us and that He wanted the best for us. We should follow Jesus' example and tell people of God's love...sure you can inform them they are going to hell but what good will that do if they don't understand? God loves us all, it is my opinion on this matter that it offends the ears of non believers to hear about him. We do want love for other people, but they have to be ready to accept that love or we will always be called Bible thumpers. LOL. Some are. Not all Christians are perfect, and I just had someone Bible Thump to me not long ago. I am a very devout Christian, but she was very off putting with the way she spoke of God. Romanceluvr  |
Date: 6/14/2001 5:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 34361
I agree, Christians are not perfect. We're just doing our best, stumbling, stumbling all the way...But hey, Jesus' first deciples were none perfect either. With time though, we grow in wisdom, and spiritual strength, and love for others...  |
Date: 6/14/2001 6:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 11091
HOw can you say what religions are dead religions? What Catholics and Chrisitians do not realize is that they are not the majority, they are the minority. Only 30% of the world is Christian, 70% is non-Christian. And about 8% are practicing Christians. Christians say mean things all the time and I hear it. I judge each individually and I tell the hypocrites they are hypocrites. If you love us so much and want the best for us why do you treat us like we are the scum of the earth who are destined to spend eternity in hell?  |
Date: 6/14/2001 6:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 34625
Well I hear christians telling me day after day 'christians get so opressed, we never opress others' but then I go off into reality and get condescended to and direspected all the time because of the very unchristian belief structure. You can't tell whether or not someone is opressed if you aren't in their shoes. Maybe christians do get opressed, what do I know, I'm not one of em. If they do, it's a result of our backlash to being opressed ourselves. ~Nekomimi  |
Date: 6/14/2001 6:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 11428
That thing is if you want love for us let us be happy on the path that we are on. If we are ment to end up on christian path let us find it on our own. No body wants to be pushed into things and that is what happens is some christians try to push the faith. When and if we are ready we will ask for your help. But for now just be happy that we are happy. You would end up feeling the same way if we tried to push our religion on you even though we may mean well,and want goodness for you. I don't dislike christians, but I don't like dealing with closed minded ones that just can't let us be happy. God Bless and Blessed Be, Prophacy  |
Date: 6/14/2001 6:55:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
Please tell me in what way have you been looked down upon by how many that Christians are categorized this way?  |
Date: 6/15/2001 12:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 31783
Alot of people look down on me because I don't go to church. I can only imagine what would happen if they knew I don't go to church because I'm not a Christian. Everyone is oppressed at some point for some reason. It's not just Christians, it's not just Pagans, it's not just because of sex, age, race, education, sexuality etc. Here's my advice. Let people know you will witness to them if they choose. Then let it be. You'll be more inviting that way. You wouldn't demand someone come to dinner at your place, would you? Of course not. You invite and then let them decide whether or not they take you up on it. They'll be more likely to if you do it that way instead of telling them you'll bake them in your oven if they don't accept the invitation whole heartedly. ~Jetamio~  |
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Date: 6/15/2001 4:56:00 AM
From Authorid: 30996
People shouldnt judge other people because of thier belief, or anything at that. dont let it bother you,anymore people put a label on everything in life. just ignore it. Speed  |
Date: 6/15/2001 6:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 10733
well personallyy I think that if you didn't witness, ect. there wouldn't be that much so called persecution. I understand that that is the core belief to witness to others but at the same time when do we drawn the line between witnessing and forceing beliefs on others?  |
Date: 6/15/2001 8:21:00 AM
From Authorid: 27414
Payback!!!! LOL!!!...pianoman  |
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Date: 6/15/2001 8:55:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
For example in my comments some here are categorizing right here which I take to be rude. Now none of the the people who agree with me have categorized or bashed anyones beliefs on here. What about that? |
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Date: 6/15/2001 9:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 11428
What did you want putting this in debates. People are expressing their opinion on the subject. Everyone get persecuted for their beliefs. I try to go out of my way to be nice. Others are a little harsher because of the emotions that they feel when reading this. I see no bashing here I see opinions of people who have had bad experiences. We are also letting you know what would make less conflict with people. If you want bashing I'm sure that I can find a couple of people on this site that would end up making you cry when they are done. This is not bashing, if you can't take others opinions please don't ever post in the debate section again. God Bless and Blessed Be, Prophacy |
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Date: 6/15/2001 10:02:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
hmm I never said I was a pansy but your still making my point. The point is I don't see your points beyond hidden insults. Why am I categorized in an plural you? I ask people if they's like to hear about my experience they can say yes or no. How is that pushy? |
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Date: 6/15/2001 10:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 31783
You were using the plural form in your post. That's why people are using the plural "you". In my first comment you (singular) can take those yous to be singular or plural. It can go both ways. You personally or you Christains. No point has been proven by you. Your not being slammed. We are simply responding to a debate. ~Jetamio~ |
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Date: 6/15/2001 10:34:00 AM
From Authorid: 11091
I am one that could easily make you cry, I am great with words, but I won't. What we are trying to explain is that because we are non-christians we are persecuted everyday from christians because our beliefs differ. What gives you the right to judge us, tell us we are wrong and going to hell, or try to force your religion on us? Christians only make-up 30% of the population and most are non-practicing. Witnessing is wrong and that is why so many people turn away from organized religion and turn against Christians. I do not see Christians getting persecuted for their beliefs. It is the other way around. Christians just start an argument with us and are scared when we question their beliefs and they have no answer or know we are right. |
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Date: 6/15/2001 10:44:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
Well you know what I am an individual. Also what I believe comes from the bible not from my head. I mean I know in my heart what I believe is true. I have not once tried to witness but it seems like a few people think I get up in peoples faces and try to shove scripture down there throat. i have never done this nor seen any one for that matter and couldn't concieve why anyone would do so becouse we are supposed to love one another have great charity only to say things that are easy to be heard and easy to be entreated with no malicousness or ill meaning thought invoved. well gots to go thanx for all your comments |
Date: 6/15/2001 3:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 17525
Excuse me, but the "salem witches" as you call them, may have been "Quakers" quackers? However, one thing is certain, they were persecuted by fanatical religious tyrany, the likes of which would still be ravaging the country if not for the Constitution. When Christians say they are being 'persecuted' they would do well to read truthful history. There has not been so much blood shed in both world wars combined as has been shed by non believers, or heretics as holy church would call them, under the pious guise of "protecting the purity of the faith". The church is guilty of more murder, lying, forgery, and obtaining money under false pretenses than any institution or government or individual has in the history of the planet. The church's history is a remarkabla history of darkness and fabrication to serve it's own ends. Greed and crime are the earmarks of this belief. Remember this- "Non belief is no sin ignorance was ever capable of being guilty of" and "Reason never did sentence and condemn Faith to torture". Just ,my opinion.  |
Date: 6/15/2001 9:36:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
Its gonna be ok Osiris lol take a breather ok? lol As far as the salem witches that was my fualt I should of clarified that I was refering to the inquisition this person being killed by that person. Salem witches were being persecuted mostly from quackers (who themselves left England for religouis persecution themselves tsk tsk) They followed a religoin sort of like the Roman Catholics. You see Christianity has nothing to do with what theses men did it says in the bible if people do wrong things in the name of the bible and God they were to be severely punished. These men miss represented the God of the bible. What I mean by dead religoin it means a religion that was not meant to be followed after the death of Christ. Jesus payed for all our sins on the cross where as those people saying they are killing people in the name of the Lord for sins commited When our sins are already forgiven. What they did is WRONG I do not follow that belief system whatsoever. My faith has never killed anyone claiming it to be in the name of the Lord. In wich killing can never be in the name of the Lord but only an excuse to kill people probably ordered to be done ny a king or something of that nature. Further most people who were killed for being a witch in either Spain or Salem most weren't witches  It was all for there own lil agenda. This is more than just my opinion. Love Poo |
Date: 6/15/2001 9:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 5484
cause they dont get it  |
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Date: 6/15/2001 9:48:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
whats that chrissy? |
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Date: 6/16/2001 12:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 17525
Hey Poo, you have to remember something. Whatever today's christians say about those 'evil' people who did all those nasty things to others, it must be remembered that 1. the current new testament was compiled and canonized by the Catholic at the Council of Nicea. There were no 'gospels' so much as spoken of until at least the year 145 AD. So they didn't exist until then. What you follow and preach is the product of the Catholic church. What you divulge as far as Jesus being the atonement for all sin of Catholic origin. The doctrine christians cling to today was developed by in Catholicism. Todays christians would have no belief at all if the Catholic church had not developed it for them. It's sort of like saying, "Darwin was a fool, but I have this theory about evolution." Spin-offs from Catholicism cannot take credit for anything 'new' that was not developed already in the third century. Now, about the inquisition, it was the Catholic church that spawned encouraged and supported this most heinous of crimes in humanity. The founders and developers of YOUR present belief are the perpetrators; the Catholic church. I can cite you a whole list of laws enacted by the church against pagans. Indeed it was not the attraction of the belief which caused christianity to grow, it was the threat of fire and sword which swelled it's ranks. I find a problem with your doctrine also in that you say that sins are already forgiven. If that were the case, then there is no need for your Hell, now is there? You are free to believe what you wish. An even scant review of true history might cause one to question not only the validity, but the origins of such a belief. Just my opinion. Peace |
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Date: 6/16/2001 10:39:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
Just maybe your off about somethings. First off whoever 'compiled' the Bible it does say in the Bible that it is the word of God. That anyone who tries to mess with it well we'll just say it won't be a good thing to do. But the scriptures were written to people whom God spoke directly to. These people were very real not imaginary. As far as the gospels all they were was letters of inspiration to different churches or towns mostly done by the apostles of Jesus. Back then there was no bible but they did carry the ancient letters and writings from the ancient people who communed with God. So no not until they put all the letters and writings together to make one book would they have started naming certian letters or writings. But they were written and they did exist. What I believe is not a 'product' of catholisism. Take away the name catholic and what you will see is a group of people following the rules of the old testament. Where as when Jesus the son of God died on the cross for our sins a new not religoin but a new faith was born. Faith means believing in something that is not right before you. Further what proof since you want to go by history that Catholics made the religion up and made up God? There is non so there for that belief that man made God can be weighed side by side with the belief that God made man. As far as the churches of old some were corrupt. Nothing in the bible would support there actions. What a few do wrong in the claiming to be in the name of God thier misdeeds shouldn't hang over everyones head that believes in the same God. That would be like a man commiting murder and every single person in his family and all of the generations in the future are blamed of commiting the same act. Yes our sins are forgiven but all we have to do is ask! Asking is admitting that there is a God that will forgive our sins. It is the admittance that you believe in all that the bible says. So yes our sins are forgiven. Love Poo |
Date: 6/16/2001 8:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
Catholicism?? Hardly. I believe Catholicism had roots in maybe the 2nd century, and really did not control anything until Constantine. --Paranoid--  |
Date: 6/16/2001 9:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Alot of people say this Osiris, that the *church* is the cause of this or that. I believe you could be right, the *church* the people of that building or another, that *man* made, that *man* said what a *christian* should or shoud not do, could very well be the cause. But we of this generation, and of many other generations, are not OF a *church* made the *man* made hands, but we are the *firstborn* the first fruits of the Lord Jesus Christ. Our God isnt in a building, our God isnt taught to us purely by what *man* tells us *they* think *God* said this or that. Our God is with in us. We are the body of Christ. We do not need a building. The roman catholic church in the time of Jesus, created the church as to look as if they were following Christ, because they could see that they were losing ground, so they incorparated Jesus into their system and I for one dont believe Jesus was into that grand plan at all. Just my thoughts. Hugs, bro, its good to see ya again.  |
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Date: 6/16/2001 10:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 17525
Just a couple thing here.. no fight, just discussion :-) first, you say:......"man commiting murder and every single person in his family and all of the generations in the future are blamed of commiting the same act" Do you realize that's exactly the equivalent of "original sin", which is what Jesus was said to have atoned for in his death. It strikes me odd that you would dismiss it in real life as unfair, but find it believable in religion. The "original" doctrine of Catholicism is that Jesus dies to atone for the sin of Adam, period. The gates of Heaven are again opened as a result of his act. Of course, we're free to tack on all other sins as well but in it's pure form it was Adam's sin only, not the daily sins we commit. Those were reserved for "Peter (and his successors) to bind an/or loose with his 'keys'. So again, we're dealing with Catholic doctrine embelished perhaps in these modern times. Firstborn, I really don't believe Jesus was into the grand plan either. In fact, I don't believe he intended to found a 'church' at all. The 'go out into the world and preach..." is at very striking odds with the fact that he specifically said the generation he was living would not pass before the end of the world. So he couldn't have been talking long term about any church type institution at all. In fact the "go out into the world" was not even cited in the gospels until several centuries. It was apparently an add-on as none of the first or second century church fathers mention it at all in any of their writings. It had to be added in as the 'end' had not come as Jesus had claimed it would within the first generation. Just n observation. Good to be back on USM. Peace, |
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Date: 6/17/2001 7:40:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Peace Bro. Your smarter than I on so much of the history of the Bible and things such as this. I agree with you on the daily sin thing. However I know that when I mess up as far as doing something I feel God wouldnt have me to do, ya know, if my concience condems me, then I ask to be forgiven for that thing that I did that day. |
Date: 6/17/2001 7:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Eccl:12 : Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Eccl:12  : And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs. Eccl:12:10: The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth. Is:61:1: The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; Is:61  : To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; Jon:3:1: And the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying, Jon:3 : Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. You can see by this and other things in the old testament that even then the ministers of the Lord were told to go out and preach. You can see even then, as told In Jerimiah, " Rather they hear or rather they refuse, tell them. " They may have added to preach the gospel, later in the new test, I dont know, but its always been the thing that is supose to be done. I dont think Jesus meant to have a building as the church either. |
Date: 6/18/2001 6:01:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
 Discussion it is. I personally do not believe the "Peter is the rock" beliefs. The rock referred to is the statement "You are the Christ", referencing Jesus as the Messiah -the savior of all. Peter in Greek means "little rock" and the rock mentioned by Jesus in this verse is a BIG one. I would assume it is the cornerstone Peter talks about later in other books, which once more would be Jesus. Original sin?? I don't believe that one, either. We are responsible for what we do, not what anyone else does. The sins covered were once for all. I haven't seen the bible state it was once for Adam's. And thirdly, if you are referencing the book of Matthew, I believe he is referencing the destruction of Jerusalem, NOT the end of the world in those passages. "Abomination of desolation" I believe is what is referred to. I know there are others out here who disagree with me on this one *smiles* --Paranoid-- |
Date: 6/19/2001 10:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 15014
Poo, Looks like your topic got swayed away from a bit, but I'm in total agreement with you, we christians are persecuted for our beliefs, but that is ok, because to be persecuted with Christ is great gain in the Kingdom of God. *Smile God loves you* persecuted?...yes, but I'm not oppressed!  |
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Date: 6/20/2001 7:02:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
Sorry, I got carried away there...Yes, we are all persecuted. In my opinion there are not many other religions persecuted as much as Christianity. Read some of the past posts here at USM. According to some, Christianity is to blame for wars, racism, sexism, homo-phobia, etc..... you get the point. All we can do is continue to fight for what we believe is right --Paranoid-- |
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Date: 6/20/2001 9:18:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
Jesus died for all sins from adam and eve to today all sins past and present are forgiven, Osiris I finish this later I too tired! Love Poo |
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Date: 6/20/2001 9:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36079
hi Puff! Nice to see you again! I mean by oppressed becouse all through out time all the way to today I mean the gladiaters alot were christians thrown out to the lions, many wars where thousands of christians were killed for there beliefs, I've heard many stories of todays Portugal they are particularly unfreindly there, then even in our true birth place Israel or Jerusalem God Forbid you mention you believe in Jesus there, I have heard of whole families banished to mountians of refuse and garbags in fact I have heard that at that time many families where there. I bet you anything the list could go on and on, I have been told that there is no other religoin faith or belief system so oppressesed or persecuted than the Christian faith. Roman Catholics need not apply LOL at least not the ones of the 16-18 centuries! But the tired one must go seepies so see you laters! Love Poo |
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