Date: 4/26/2001 9:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 9130
YOu know, I have always assummed that we go directly to heaven or hell, but if you think about it, this limbo thing could be a really good explanation for ghosts... good post. I will be curious to see what people have to say...  |
Date: 4/26/2001 9:11:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 28660
Thats what I was thinking too Dizzy. It also makes you think of reincarnation being a possibility.  |
Date: 4/26/2001 9:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 25438
Well, IF you believe in heaven or hell, I believe that you would go straight to one or the other. I don't think its actually like St. Peter standing at a big golden gate checking his book. God knows wether you are going to heaven or not, so when you die, why would you have to wait for "judgement"? As far as ghosts go, I believe that your spirit remains in energy and in the right situations you will be seen by the living as a light, but I don't believe you will be seen as the body you were in. Blue Knight  |
Date: 4/26/2001 9:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 31837
Wow! I was just talking about this last night. In Revelations...which is impossible to understand..LOL it says that Judgement day is when God decides whether we go to heaven or hell. My whole idea of the 'in between' is that we are ghosts, or even possibly reincarnated until judgement day... great post! ~t_dub~  |
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Date: 4/26/2001 9:27:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 28660
Thanks for replying Blue Knight. I hope you're right. |
Date: 4/26/2001 9:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 23610
Well, here's my take on it. When you die you return to the spirit world...where you came from. I don't believe in hell. When you reach the spirit world your guide meets you and helps you with the readjustment back to the "real" world. You meet with a counsel and review your life. You are not judged. You go over events of your life and see how it all turned out and where you did gain some progression and where you may not have done as well as you would have wanted. You review it and try to figure out why you did things the way you did and how you can better that next time (reincarnation). You then return to your soul group (group of spirits that generally work together and reincarnate together). You continue learning and planning your next life and the type of life and lessons you want to work on. I don't believe in an actual judgment or punishment. I believe in love and counseling and trying again. -Lady Nyx  |
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Date: 4/26/2001 9:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 31837
Of course then again, what if in our next lives, we're of the Buddaism religion and we don't go to heaven??? That's the only thing that doesn't make sense to me. That was the arguement I had last night... well, not really an arguement, but y'all know what I mean!LOL ~t_dub~ |
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Date: 4/26/2001 9:33:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 28660
Thanks ~t_dub~ and Lady Nyx. I see every one has different opinions on this. I guess the bible is interpreted different by everyone. Revelations is very hard to understand. |
Date: 4/26/2001 10:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
What I believe the Bible teaches is that there is one resurrection, after which there is one judgment. What are we doing in between?? I couldn't even hazard a guess. I don't believe that the Bible says anything about it, so any opinion would be as good as any other opinion. I think (if i remember correctly) that the Jewish belief is that there are "waiting" places before judgment, but I am not sure where that comes from. --Paranoid--  |
Date: 4/26/2001 10:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 12637
I think the free choice that we have in our physical bodies carries over to the other side, although the energy and souls of all your ancestors and loved ones will be there for you to comfort you, I think that you decide where you go, judging upon how you lived your life, faced your weaknesses, and attempted to change. Intentions mean alot. Ryphis  |
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Date: 4/26/2001 10:28:00 AM
From Authorid: 12637
I can honestly say that Revelations is the specific reason I quit worshipping the Christian God, I skipped ahead when I was kid after reading the entire old testament, and was disgusted with a God that vengeful, that pathetically weak where he solved evil with more evil, where he let even the lost spirits who had no faith in him, he never gave them a chance, and sent hell on earth. It still enrages me that christians use that as their revenge factor and fear factor, when trying to either convert their friends or scare children and adults. I will not bow to god out of fear, fear is not healthy and it is not something I want to propogate in myself. I want to believe in a god that truly loves and understands that people create evil and people create good. Ending the world and destroying what you created is a child's game, you would think a god would be beyond Revelations. That alone changed me and made me seek out more spirituality that was not rooted in fear and hell, but an afterlife that was already in my heart, that I didn't need to achieve through a God's Permission. Ryphis |
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Date: 4/26/2001 10:53:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 28660
Paranoid and Ryphis thanks for replying.Paranoid do you think that the waiting place could be what we've heard of as purgatory? Purgatory is supposed to be the middle ground between heaven and hell right? |
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Date: 4/26/2001 11:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
I think that purgatory is a Catholic-based belief. I believe it is a place of torment, but not as bad as hell. Catholicism teaches that you can pray people out of purgatory, so I don't think that would be the waiting-place. Purgatory would kindof be a "time-out" type of punishment. You were bad, so you will be tormented for "x" amount of time. Then you can come to heaven. Like "you will be forgiven if you say 50 Hail Mary's". I think the Jews believed in a placed called Gehenna, which Christians mistakenly believe is hell, but I think that they believe that it is a waiting place. There are Biblical examples of people contacting "dead" spirits --where they came from is not mentioned, unfortunately. --Paranoid-- |
Date: 4/26/2001 11:30:00 AM
From Authorid: 27678
We are in a "spiritual sleep" upon death, until the return of Jesus. Free Girl  |
Date: 4/26/2001 11:48:00 AM
From Authorid: 32806
I agree wholeheartedly with Ryphis and would also say that ""CHRISTIANS"" have no claim on who or when any individual goes to Heaven or Hell(which I do not believe in anyway).They dismiss the beliefs of millions of people worldwide indiscriminately.
Believers in Buddha have their heaven as well.  Sagi10  |
Date: 4/26/2001 11:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 12600
The bible says that we go to hades, sheol, the grave. We simply die. I think we are in some "state of sleeping". Here are some verses that you may find helpful. Eccle. 9:5,10 / Ps. 146:4 & 13:3 / John 11:11-13 / Gen. 3:19. ~peace~  |
Date: 4/26/2001 12:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 27414
Oh great!!! There's going to be an evaluation!!! That's OK. I'm covered. LOL..pianoman  |
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Date: 4/26/2001 12:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 27414
How about this? Whatever you enjoyed in life, that which gave you the most pleasure, maybe even at the place where it occurred, will be what you get to do in the afterlife. I believe that you will be able to do basically whatever it is that you want. If you WANT to sit at the right hand of God, so be it! If you want to go surfing, so be it! Whatever gives you pleasure...pianoman |
Date: 4/26/2001 12:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I believe that the moment I die that I will be with the LORD. He told the criminal on the cross, " Today you will be in paradice with me. " So because HE, Jesus said today, the day that the man was going to die, I believe thats true for all of us. I believe that those that dont believe in Jesus, will be present in hell, but all will come forth on judgement day for the final judement.this is MPO  |
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Date: 4/26/2001 1:18:00 PM
At the moment of death, there is a particular judgment where the soul is totally consious and aware of God. He is shown a review of his life and his actions. The person will find himself in the Light of God and if any stain of sin remains, he will be in a spiritual pain. If the person died in a state of unrepentance, the Light will be too overpowering and he will flee it.(Hell) If he is repentant, yet still has a certain attachment to sin, the light will cause him to shield his soul. This is similar to if we are in bright sun without sunglasses. The person wants to enter Heaven yet must be purified of every last remnant of sin on his soul. He is in need of a spiritual shower so that he can enter into Heaven in perfection. This state is temporary and sometimes is called Purgatory. These souls do not deserve Hell and are assured of eternal joy in Heaven after their cleansing. A few souls go straight to Heaven who have worked hard to cleanse their souls while still on earth. These souls take seriously living a life of virtue and repentance. They strive moment by moment to choose God's will over their own unselfishly. Therese |
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Date: 4/26/2001 1:23:00 PM
I forgot to comment on the general judgment at the end of the world. That will be the time when all creatures of God will see God's plan in its totality,and understand how each one of us fit into it. The souls in Heaven will remain there, the souls in Hell will remain there. We will all understand where we failed God, likewise, we will see the times we did His will. How do I know these things I write are true? Because God has revealed them to me. Not in any supernatural way, but through the promptings of the Holy Spirit and through God's Word. Therese |
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Date: 4/26/2001 1:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 29919
We are all judged once we die. This is the belief that applies to the "one life" view in the bible which contrasts to the perspective of multiple lives in reincarnation. Many religions Eastern preach this aspect - the bible does not. However, during Constantine's rein in the 4th century,I believe, reincarnation was a major aspect of the bible but was taken out in order to increase the power of the church. There have been many edittings in the bible and this was a huge deletion. Anyone who believed in reincarnation was to be persecuted thereafter. So "judgement" at the end of the world is a man made belief to apply to the "one-life" theory when in reality, there is multiple lives and everyone is judged once they die. However there is a sort of place where souls can rest and where souls can reborn. ~XxSuaveoO~ |
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Date: 4/26/2001 1:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
XxSuaveoO I disagree with you 100% |
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Date: 4/26/2001 3:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 29919
Hey Firstborn, care to explain? Most of that what I said was factual. Like reincarnation being editted out of the bible and most Eastern religions believing in reincarnation. Why would anyone make up the belief that we live more than once? Is it not possible for us to reincarnate? Jesus was a soul that incarnated into a body, therefore he had pre-existence before he was born. So if Jesus was able to incarnate it's impossible for other souls to incarnate as well? If so why? thanks ~XxSuaveoO~ |
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Date: 4/26/2001 5:10:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 28660
This is getting so interesting. Though I still don't know what to believe, its kind of contradicting.Yes Jesus told the criminal who was crucified that he would be in Paradise with him today. But, its also in the bible that all will be judged together on judgement day. Thanks Paranoid for answering me about purgatory,I guess I should have paid closer attention in Sunday school LOL. Tiger Lily |
Date: 4/26/2001 11:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
the bible says, Heb  7: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: I beleive if God said once, He meant ONCE. On one hand you talk about things of the spirit and then on the other hand you try to force the things of the spirit into logic, this can not be done. Spirit is Spirit and flesh is flesh. Jesus, was not reincarnated, Jesus was rasied from the dead, when people said things like,. " it must be this one or that one come back" That was their words, not Gods. There is no reincarnation, its a myth. |
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Date: 4/27/2001 4:34:00 AM
From Authorid: 27414
Firstborn, I DISAGREE with you 110%. Here we go again!!!...pianoman |
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Date: 4/27/2001 6:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
XxSuaveoO - I am interested in your sources on the removal of reincarnation from the bible in the 4th century. (I hope that makes sense) Thx --Paranoid-- |
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Date: 4/27/2001 6:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 29919
Hey Firstborn! Yeah, reincarnation may seem unbelievable and a myth but I have had my own experiences. When I was a young, like 5 years old, I had this incredibly vivid dream which was set in a certain time period and I saw myself in a different body. I was young, so I had no idea what it meant and I didn't believe in past lives at that time. And now when I've actually did some research on that time period recently I found out that some of the objects (that I NEVER saw in real life at that age) were actually real factual objects in history. So I think that's fascinating and it's pretty convincing to me ... Anyways, what I meant about Jesus was not about his second coming but about his "first" coming. I used the word "incarnate." Because basically what incarnation is about a pre-existence before being born into a physical body. And Jesus was sent down from heaven by God by being born in a mortal body and therefore his soul was not created right at the moment when Mary conceived him. Do you get what I'm saying? So I'm saying, if Jesus was able to do this (incarnate into a physical body), why can't any other soul be able to? Thanks! ~XXSuaveoO~ |
Date: 4/27/2001 7:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 29919
TO PIANOMAN: Hi! You're so funny! TO PARANOID: Hello! I made a post about this a while ago. Here is a brief summary. "Many people do not know this but the concept of reincarnation was completely taken out of the bible during the 4th century of Emperor Constantine's reign and declared as heresy in the 6th century. Even religious figures at that time who believed in reincarnation was forced to keep their beliefs in fear of persecution." Reincarnation though was in fact part of Jesus's original teachings. And it was completely taken out because it decreased their power of the church by allowing us to be the ones that we who are responsible for our own spiritual evolution and extremely less reliance of "salvation" through Jesus/God. Omittig this was one of the many ways how the corrupt clergy gained power. However some remnants of reincarnation still remains in the bible, for example, the story of Elijah in the bible returning as John the Baptist. And there's some scripture that talk about reincarnation. John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3 "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." etc., etc.. Throughout the centuries some religious figures have tried to fight against how the bible altered Jesus's teachings of reincarnation but they all have been shot down b/c the new doctrine that was created after reincarnation was omitted out stated that any belief against the new doctrine must be dropped. Well I hope this was informative! If you want to know more, there are plenty of sources on the internet, just look up the keywords "reincarnation" and "bible." ~XxSuaveoO~ |
Date: 4/27/2001 7:36:00 AM
From Authorid: 15621
XxSuaveoO~ If you read on in john (3:4-8)...jesus tells what he means by being.."born again"..it has nothing to do with Reincarnation....And when John the baptist was asked ih he was Elijah...His answer was no......He came in the spirit and power of Elijah...  |
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Date: 4/27/2001 8:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
~XXSuaveoO pre-existence by Jesus is just that. Jesus, God the FAther and the HolySpirit are the ones that pre-existe, not their soul. Jesus was born of a woman and His soul was brand new. One can not reincarnate into another body if they never had a body in the first place. Jesus did just as man did, He had a one time birth and a one time death. He was rasied from the dead, not reinarnated into another body. When He left this earth a second time after being rasied from the dead, He didnt die, He asended. You talk about your experience. I talk about mine and they are discounted, why is that? You fail to remember that the demonic angels of satan and satan himself have been here on earth, even before Adam and Eve. These spirits know every soul that has ever been born on this earth and have access to their memories, thoughts ect. You had this dream, you researched it and found that it contained facts in the real world that you could not have know. Just a the HOly Spirit of God can give us knowledge of events, past, present, and future, where we can actually see like as if in a movie, what went on, clear as a bell, so can satan and his demonic angels do the same thing, except they cant go only into the imediate future as only God knows the total future. Yes, it seemed real to you, that is the goal, for it to seem so real to you, that everything God and Jesus say, has to be a lie, or full of contridictions. What better way for satan to gain a soul? Think about it. |
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Date: 4/27/2001 8:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
XxSuaveoO, also you *read* that this or that has been taken out. Did you *see* it being taken out? Do you know for fact with your own five senses that it was taken out? One is to discern the Bible in Spirit and in truth, rightly dividing the truth from error. The Holy spirit of God will lead you into all truths and that includes the writing of the Bible as so many say things have been added and things taken out. Talk to the HOly Spirit, dont get your info from books of man. The Bible was written by unction of the Holy Spirit. Talk to HIM you will find the truth. |
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Date: 4/27/2001 10:05:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
I will do some "surfing" this weekend to check this out. Thanks, XxSuaveoO! I will also toss out my total OPINION on past lives, reincarnation, etc. My theory on is that since we only use about 5-10% of our brain ANYWAY, why couldn't the rest of it be storage (not quite the word I want) or memories of our ancestors?? That would explain why you could get hypnotized and see "past" lives, and recall events that you would not have any knowledge about. This could also explain "deja-vu" and a few other "psychic" phenomenon. Like I said, this is only my opinion. --Paranoid-- |
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Date: 4/27/2001 11:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 12600
Tiger Lily, I feel that when Jesus said that to the other man that he was saying, "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise." Since the original greek wasn't written with our modern punctuation there is really no way of knowing for sure how it was meant to be read. All one can do is compare it to the rest of the scriptures, and I can assure you, aside from this one scripture there is none that will indicate that when we die we immediately enter in to heaven or hell. I urge to read the scriptures I posted before. Good luck to you in your understanding. If if I can help you at all please let me know. ~peace~ |
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Date: 4/27/2001 12:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 12600
Paranoid, we use all of our brain. Please research this so you will know that I'm not making this up. Although we don't use it all for learning and actual "thinking", the rest is used for telling our body what to do, eye coord., muscle coordination, movement, organs, etc. That statement has proven to be a myth. Just thought you might want to know that. ~peace~ |
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Date: 4/27/2001 12:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
*sigh* ...there goes one great theory right down the tubes ... I will check into this more. Like i said, its just an opinion. I will look into this a bit more thoroughly, tho. (I happened to like my theory.) --Paranoid-- |
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Date: 4/27/2001 12:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 12600
Smiling @ paranoid. Sorry bout that:-) ~peace~ |
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Date: 4/27/2001 11:00:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 28660
I don't know if I believe in reincarnation. But I certainly have an open mind to it. Say for example a baby or a child dies very young what happens to their soul? Or another example say someone from a third world country who had never heard about God. I know I'm seriously straying from the subject. But the more I think about reincarnation,the more sense it makes. Wouldn't God want us to learn as many experiences as we can to teach us? Oh thanks for all the replies so far. Tiger Lily |
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Date: 4/28/2001 12:13:00 AM
From Authorid: 29919
TO SIXGUN: So what did Jesus mean about being born again? Thanks! TO FIRSTBORN: Hi! Thanks for responding I view the spirit and the soul as the same thing because their both living forces that exist without a physical body. So if these two are 2 different things, are you saying that Jesus is now a soul and a spirit? But I still believe a spirit and a soul are basically the two same things and if Jesus as a spirit in heaven was able to incarnate into a human body than it can't be all that impossible for souls in heaven to do the same thing... I never discounted your experiences. I do believe that there are mischevious entities out there... I'm just wondering but where did you get your information from about familiar spirits or the devil implanting thoughts in people's brains? Did it come from the bible? But as of Satan gaining souls by making people believe in reincarnation, there are a lot of Christians out there that believe in reincarnation but also believe and Jesus and God at the same time. And I still believe in God and Jesus even though I believe in reincarnation too. So if reincarnation is huge conspiracy constructed by the devil to make us disregard God - then it's really really not working. If Satan was that powerful to plant vivid memories in my head, wouldn't he also be able to make me disbelieve in God and Jesus? And I will not ignore what Jesus or God says, but what the BIBLE says. 2 different thing because the bible has been edited by the clergy. And I'm positive that all of these other sources weren't lying about reincarnation being edited out of the bible because they had to have facutual proof to even state that. Thanks for your response! ~XxSuaveoO~ |
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Date: 4/28/2001 12:16:00 AM
From Authorid: 29919
HEY PARANOID! Yes, I've heard about the theory of past life memories being from the DNA Of our ancestors. But this is a totally flawed theory because there are many people who have had past life regressions or memories that have had no relation to their ancestral linneage. And my own experiences of past life memories are definately not from any of my ancestors. ~XxSuaveoO~ |
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Date: 4/28/2001 12:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 29919
Hi Tiger Lily! I'm glad you have an open mind on this subject. There's a lot of true stories where children (who are more intuitive than adults b/c their minds haven't been conformed to social ideologies) do no absolutely forget their past lives and sometimes they end up speaking in a completely different language than the one they're raised in. Some children (esp. in India) were able to accurately account EVERYTHING from their past life. There was even one case where a child was able to meet his wife and children from his past life and tell them things that no one else would've known. But yes, reincarnation explains a lot of things concerning this type of phenomenon! ~XxSuaveoO~ |
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Date: 4/29/2001 12:21:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
~XxSuaveoO yes I get my information from the bible and from seeing that the word of God works as spelled out in the Bible. even the demons believe in God and Jesus and tremble, but that does not mean they get a chance at heaven as they do not. born again is when your spirit has come alive from the dead spirit that has no place in God to the live spirit that has a place in God. But I've explained this so many times on here. You say that the bible has changed< I say it has not, many people that have done the bible codes on the bible has says it has not or the codes would not work. so they too have facutual proof of this, its just a choice of whos proof you choose to believe. It seems to me like you could be choosing the words from the lying spirit guide. |
Date: 5/1/2001 8:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
 I was about to say that I wonder if we REALLY know that we use all of our brain, and that the theory I prefer is correct after all ---and then XxSuaveoO points out another flaw with it Bummer. Back to studying! --Paranoid-- |
