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Date: 9/3/2007 10:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 61847
I did not take the pledge, I think our high school did something about it, but I don't think it really caught on. You are correct in saying that there are other ways to have fun, have you taken into consideration that the majority of these students could be college students. Most of which party and drink excessively?  |
Date: 9/3/2007 10:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 39107
the pledge is dumb and truely failed most of the time my friends took it.  |
Date: 9/3/2007 10:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 64497
I took this pledge, but it kind of lost value with me when my mother started having sex with a man she wasn't married to. So I abandoned it. Thats just my personal story though. -Callice  |
Date: 9/3/2007 10:54:00 AM
From Authorid: 64365
Well, I took the pledge when I was a teenager, even though it wasn't some widely publicized thing like it is today. My mama told me my virginity would be the greatest gift I could give my husband on our wedding night, and i believed her...She didn't tell me much about anything involving that, but I researched it on my own, and discovered I really did want to wait and give my husband this great and pure gift of love. I never got the chance. Someone took it without asking, and I lost that chance. Perhaps this may have been what happened with some of those who took the pledge in our present era?  |
Date: 9/3/2007 10:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 609
I think it has little to do with religion, more to do with morals (the two are not the same) and knowledge. Parents talking to their kids is still taboo by too many. I think we should be more concerned with kids looking to their friends for advice and information rather then the parents, but it seems theres an increase of parents who give birth then let others raise their kids for them (tv, babysitters, friends, etc) Personally I'm far more concerned about this then a lack of religion.  |
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Date: 9/3/2007 11:02:00 AM
From Authorid: 609
fyi, I didn't take the pledge but I was seriously religious when I was 15 and lost my virginity thanks to a rape...thats something else to consider, check out the stats of rape & incest, now thats a more shocking figure & something not explained away by lack of religion or too much media. |
Date: 9/3/2007 11:14:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 13283
Ladies , I am so sorry if a guy ever took advantage of you . Is it fair of me to blame the media ? On tv and magazines they make women out to be sex objects which is very wrong . I adore a woman more for her heart , mind and soul and not her flesh . We live in a sex crazed world and there needs to be more properness and we need more teens to wait until adulthood . Trust me , there will still be men and women around when you grow up . The best things come to those who wait . Razzy aka  |
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Date: 9/3/2007 11:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 64497
I would say the media has a big part of it. Plus, I have been in some situations where its either sleep with the guy or lose him. Its a hard choice for a girl who isn't secure with herself, especially when its condoned by everything she sees. -Callice |
Date: 9/3/2007 11:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 16865
Do guys take this virginity pledge too? I have never heard of this. I think it is doomed to failure if done incorrectly.  |
Date: 9/3/2007 11:44:00 AM
From Authorid: 63575
In my high school, they tried to educate what the risks are (STD'S, Pregnancy) but they never talked about anything concerning "safe sex" and they never discussed anything about rape until AFTER it happened. Which of course it's too late.  |
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Date: 9/3/2007 11:49:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 13283
Callice , that is the way most guys operate . That tells you right there that intimacy is more important to them than the woman , which is very wrong . Its tough for a lady . This mindset needs to change . A guy would think different if they were the ones who could get pregnant . Razzy aka |
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Date: 9/3/2007 11:54:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 13283
Ramses I took sex ed in the 7th grade . They did not mention the virginity pledge , but they did say abstinence was 100 percent safe ! They taught us about all the diseases we got while having intimacy . I was like shell shocked for two years after hearing all those scary sounding names like ghonnorea , syphilis , and chlamydia . I stayed away from women for like 6 years after taking that class . Razzy aka |
Date: 9/3/2007 11:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 62841
my high school never had anything like this, but i did take some sort of pledge with my church, and i've stuck by it (i'm 17, i took the pledge when i was 13)  |
Date: 9/3/2007 12:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 31765
One can have morals without being religious.  |
Date: 9/3/2007 12:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
O.K.-I will makethis as "g-rated" as I can. Explain the feelings of arousal are normal, and not a sin. Encourage self-stimulation/gratification. And prove proper bith control information while explaining that this is not "permission", but information.  |
Date: 9/3/2007 1:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
Nonsense, there is no connection between a lack of religion and a lack of morality. My opinion on the higher instance of venereal disease and unexpected pregnancies among teenagers who took this pledge is that it is a result of a backwards, overly-conservative attitude to sex which denies children proper education. Safe sex is a wonderful healthy thing and to deny oneself this experience is practically masochistic.  |
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Date: 9/3/2007 1:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
Nevermind, SpiritChild put it better than I did. |
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Date: 9/3/2007 1:49:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 13283
SpiritChild , I like your comment that it is information and NOT permission . Teens are going to be intimate one day ( it should be when they are 18 - adults) and they should have that info as early as possible . Dark Phoenix , we should be emphasizing saved sex more than safe sex . How many teens have said " I wished I had waited !" Millions of them have . Its better to wait for that one special person . Razzy aka |
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Date: 9/3/2007 2:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
I don’t wish I had waited, I can only speak for myself. I thoroughly enjoyed all of it and it didn’t make it any less enjoyable when I did meet that ‘one special person’. |
Date: 9/3/2007 2:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 35720
I take personal offense to the "losing morals as a result of losing religion" comment. I have always been a very kind and moral person and I am not a woman of religion. I also had sex before adulthood and never had a venereal disease in my life. And I did experience an unwanted pregnancy, but I was 21 and am in a committed relationship.  |
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Date: 9/3/2007 2:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 64497
I don't know, I don't really regret losing my virginity. Never made that much of a difference to me. Maybe that's what it is though, maybe most teenagers just don't care anymore. -Callice |
Date: 9/3/2007 4:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 21903
I did not ever take this pledge, and I did not wait. I have to say though, I got REALLY lucky, b/c the only guy I have ever been with is the one I am going to marry. However, you made a GREAT point. Education and protection is necessary, especially knowing how common intimacy in teens is now-a-days. Its almost like teens take this pledge b/c "everyone else is" and it might make them look like they AREN'T primiscuous. This was an interesting post, thank you for sharing this information with me!   |
Date: 9/3/2007 4:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 28125
I've taken the Virginity Pledge...I'm holding to it...I'm not losing my virginity until I'm married...I wear a true love waits ring to remind me of it...Love and Hugs...GBU...ICL~*~*~*~  |
Date: 9/3/2007 4:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 30093
I'm a 21 year old virgin who is also without religion. By your logic, my immorality should have led me to unsafe premarital sex, drugs, and crime. I find it hilarious that you even mentioned religion at all, almost as if you were wishing for a more heated debate.  |
Date: 9/3/2007 4:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 62599
You dont have to fix the virginity pledge. You have to get rid of it. Safe sex is healthier than no sex.  |
Date: 9/3/2007 4:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 15394
I don't think it has to be backed by religion, but I do think there needs to be better education and support for those looking to take it seriously. Education is only one piece tho, we need to empower teens to value themselves and their choices. In my opinion, there is so little value put on children in our society, it is no wonder that teens don't put much stock and value in themselves... (So far, my daughter and I have put so much emphasis on her life, her plans and her dreams that she hasn't wanted a boyfriend... knocking on wood, I hope she keeps her eye on the prize)... my son waited until he was 19... I wish he would still wait, but he is out of the house now!! LOL  |
Date: 9/3/2007 6:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 62849
I didn't wait for marriage, but I do not have any children or VDs. It's not that difficult if you are conscious of the dangers and are careful. I don't regret my decision but I bet a lot of people do.  |
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Date: 9/3/2007 6:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Good grief, not that old tired worn out "If you don't have religion you don't have any morals" hogwash again. You are not an authority on this, Raz; not by any stretch of the imagination. Teenagers who take pledges to remain virgins until marriage are likely to deny having taken the pledge if they later become sexually active. Conversely, those who were sexual active before taking the pledge frequently deny their sexual history, according to new study findings (Harvard U. )  |
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Date: 9/3/2007 6:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
I can see why a lot of kids would lie. Some Christians, especially teens, make very strong dogmatic stands against being involved with anybody who's "tainted" by having sexual contact. Those Christians who are honest about their sexual pasts are often judged and rejected and condemned because of their honesty. Given how they'll be treated if they don't lie, I don't blame those who do. I THINK many girls just take the pledge because of pressure from their church, their parents, or peers. |
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Date: 9/3/2007 7:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Sexual REPRESSION; coupled with ignorance insures that you're going to have some rather confused, unhappy and or experimental kids down the road. For petes sake, Look at the failure rate of Roman Catholic priests who try to maintain abstinence.And look at the headlines; those involving high profile individuals who have been outed for having or leading a duel life. Many clergymen (Ted Haggard, Jim Bakker, Swaggart, etc.) and politicians (recently, Senator Craig) were brought up ; were taught that sex was bad; sex was dirty and "sinful" and all sorts of asinine, unrealistic and Victorian age taboo's. In other words, they are forced to be hypocrites. You cannot MAKE such a pledge work. You can only be an EXAMPLE to kids; while at the same time giving them the knowledge, the tools, to make the best decisions. Keeping them ignorant and in the dark about the whole matter and just saying "Just say No" will not work. |
Date: 9/3/2007 8:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 62220
I have my religion and my morals thank you very much!  |
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Date: 9/3/2007 9:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
Repression ^ That's the word I was looking for. |
Date: 9/3/2007 9:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 62118
Lets burn them to the stake then.  |
Date: 9/3/2007 9:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 45630
we don't have it in Australia and we do okay!  |
Date: 9/4/2007 2:02:00 AM
From Authorid: 30747
I never heard of the virginity pledge yet I waited for marriage not for any moral reasons other than my father would have killed me (figuratively). My conscience would not allow me to have sex even though I had been with my boyfriend for 4 years before we got married. My morality didn't come from any religion. It came from my parents. Maybe that's were the problem lies today.  |
Date: 9/5/2007 9:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Sorry Raz but I don't agree, just because one does not know God or have religion doesn't mean they do not have Morals. Where so many get this idea is way beyond me. Yes I feel that the girls/boys will do themself a favor by not sleeping around, not just because God tells us fornication is a sin unto your soul, but because with all the things, vd, aids ect, early unwanted pregnancy, well I feel if they can wait they should. So raz answer me this question, If a girl gets raped and ends up having a baby she chooses to keep, does that make her a person with no morals? I don't think so.  |
Date: 9/6/2007 3:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 62146
"What happened ? In order for it to succeed you have to have it backed by religion , which our country prohibits" I never saw america to be the most moraly stabble country in the world to be honest. Anyways my story on this matter is a long and werid one. But I would rather not go into it.  |
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Date: 9/6/2007 3:41:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 13283
50 years ago premarital intimacy was a taboo , now today's society accepts it . Our country is going in the wrong direction and that coincides with the country distancing itself from God more and more . the numbers dont lie . The main reason the Arab world hates us ( USA )is because of our lack of decency . Razzy aka |
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Date: 9/6/2007 4:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
So premarital intimacy is the problem eh? Kinda unfair on the gays don’t you think? |
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Date: 9/6/2007 6:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
oooohhhhh ho ho; imagine that. We start treating silly women foks and blacks like normal human beings who are allowed to pursue their own careers and the world just goes to hell. They need to stay in their place; like women staying in the kitchen and blacks going back to their darn plantations, why then we could return to the glorious days of old when JAYSUS ruled. I don't like this progress! No sirrreee...Don't like it one bit. <~~~~~~*sarcasm* |
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Date: 9/6/2007 6:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Royal, 50 yrs ago, premarital sex was taboo back then....in the eyes of the church . But there was PLENTY going on! It was just hidden; kept secret; hushed up; smoothed over. There is STILL a lot of the same things going on today, but not nearly as bad as it was then. Back 50-60 yrs ago, No one would even talk about what everyone knew. In other words, everyone was kinda forced to be hypocrites. THAT what you want? Or perhaps you'd like to go all the way back to the Victorian Age? Google is your friend, Royal. Do some research. Learn a few things. Try to catch up to THIS century. |
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Date: 9/6/2007 8:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Yes Jesus ruled, because people cared about the word of God and this country prospered because of it, but NOW its like sodom and Ghomoraha and getting worse, Gods protective hand is going to be backed up, and if you don't believe it, wait, just wait and see what is coming down the line. Progress IS GOOD, but not when progress turns people into liars and cheats and greedy with no care or compassion for their fellow man. |
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Date: 9/6/2007 8:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
*waits for Thinker* |
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Date: 9/6/2007 10:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Firstborn....I was brought up in the land of chain smoking, bible thumping, ignorant , 'do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do', hell-fire & brimstone holy rollers. As a child, I really really paid close attention to what christian ACTIONS versus what the preacher's or fellow christian's WORDS were. Rarely did they ever jive. Somehow I instinctively KNEW that I had to escape the madness; the insanity; the duality of such an existence. Somehow I knew the only way I was to find my way, my path to all that is good, whole, sane and truth....was EDUCATION. It was a long journey; but time and time and time again, over the years; that decision has proven to be right; has proven to me that a person's moral compass come's from within. It does not come from some external source. The difference between MY morals and those of the religious is that we disagree on their source. My morals are under constant re-evaluation by the available evidence, which helps me predict the logical outcome of those ethics when they are applied. As humanity grows and matures we learn more about ethics and what policies and decisions result in the most happiness for the greatest amount of people. It's strength lies in it's flexibility. Compare this to all the problems which even now plague humanity because people are still trying to govern modern day actions by using thousands year old "ethics" and so called "morals" written by ignorant and primitive human beings. Those holy books are filled with TONS of very immoral and amoral ; atrocious, dastardly deeds, many allegedly spoken and ordered and done by a "loving" almighty "god". Morality should be based on reason, not rules from a Bronze age god. |
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Date: 9/6/2007 10:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
It isn’t the godless people who are breaking the laws. It isn't the godless who turn into "liars and cheats and greedy with no care or compassion for their fellow man." It’s the believers. You can Weasel and wiggle around that as much as you like, it doesn’t help you. Christians sometimes like to claim that we'd all be tyrannical dictators, murderers, and rapists, and engage in debauchery and decadence IF NOT restrained by fear of hell and the wrath of "God". The truth is, most of us don't even WANT to do those things at all. I didn't want to do them when I WAS a god believer, so why in the sam hill would I want to do them now that I'm not??? Now, most of those who might like to (once in a while) are sufficiently self-disciplined by their upbringing or the ideal society they might for some reason want to resist the urge, and most of the remainder are restrained by fear of purely human, legal retribution. That leaves only a the sociopaths, the evil, the kind of people who have no conscience and it is clear to me or appears to me that fear of a god, or divine retribution does not restrain them at all. Which makes me ask the question: What moral purpose does a god serve? None,....none that I can see. The contribution is purely negative, encouraging fanatics to inflict with a good conscience tortures that they would not inflict otherwise if they were acting from purely human motives. |
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Date: 9/6/2007 11:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
I hear the preaching. I hear the WORDS. I DO NOT see any evidence in the ACTIONS that would support those words. Young people are getting educations; going off to universities; learning and experiencing people who come from different cultures; different beliefs; and sharing information. You know, I have to laugh when Christians tell me their principles are based on the Bible, and at the same time they talk about such things as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, voting, democracy, etc...... None of these things is in the Bible, and the Church explicitly condemned them for centuries. Christianity existed for 1800 years before any of these ideas ever got any traction, and that mostly from the anti-Christian French philosophies. So Please. Please don't preach about "God's protective hand" to me. Else, I could be here all night talking about MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of innocent god believers who also perished whilst they prayed for mercy....in all sorts of disasters around the world, both natural and man made. |
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Date: 9/6/2007 11:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
*pokes Dark Phoenix* Ironic, isn't it, DP. Ironic, that MY fondness, my respect, and my acceptance of YOU, a gay man.....would cause (according to christians) an almighty god to "lift his protective hand" and I will have to "wait for what is coming down the line". Imagine that. |
Date: 9/7/2007 7:52:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Where in the Bible does it say that God-believing people aren't going to die a physical death? Why is this even brought up? My thoughts are because people have no coherent idea of What God Is, period. People are going to be people -- human beings with faults and flaws. If one is so haughty that they don't think that their faults and flaws are just that, human behavior, then what do they think that behavior is? Supra human? Sub human? All God Ever Asks of anyone is to repent (be sorry) for their faults and flaws. That's a little difficult to do if: 1) A person decides (uses their minds reasoning) for themselves that their behavior is faulty or not; 2) A person rejects Authority on the matter. God Bless.  |
Date: 9/7/2007 9:07:00 AM
From Authorid: 19613
*ouch* Nah Thinker, it’s been like 2,000 years since we heard from the guy, I’m sure he’s mellowed out. (Plus he’s probably starting to have suspicions about his son. 2,000 years and *still* no wife? *Still* hanging around with John and the rest of those guys… |
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Date: 9/7/2007 4:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Thinker, that is great you found a different path, no one can make a person go down a path they do not want. However in your first lines of your first comment you say, 'I was brought up in the land of chain smoking, bible thumping, ignorant , 'do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do', hell-fire & brimstone holy rollers. As a child, I really really paid close attention to what christian ACTIONS versus what the preacher's or fellow christian's WORDS were. Rarely did they ever jive. ' Well being a Christian as long as you were you should have figured out that you dont look to the people and what they do or dont do, they are NOT God, its when people do as you did that they blame God, they blame Christianity instead of blaming the things the people said or did. I've heard your story time and time again and from other mouths, or should I say a story LIKE yours, and I agree, when man makes the rules it can get ugly, that is why we are to look to GOD and not to what man is doing or not doing. Just as in being a christian or not being one people are people and will let you down every time if you keep focused on them. Certainly there is lots of immoral things in the bible, and the reason for this is because when God gave man his word, he didn't do like some would think and keep out the ugly stuff, he told the truth of it all, the good the bad and the ugly. Would you want Him to lie about it all? |
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Date: 9/7/2007 4:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
And because YOU and others like you do not like what God said, did, or the people of God said or did, we should just throw morals and all the good lessons of the bible out the window? Should we throw compassion, helping our fellow man, not stealing, not cheating, not murder, should we throw those out the window? Kind of like throwing the baby out with the dirty bathwater. You alway accuse Christians of having to be either black or white, no middle ground what so ever, did you ever stop to read your own comments over the years? Did you ever stop to see the fanatical words that come from you? Did you ever stop to see that your belief of NON belief, that your agenda is driving you the same or worse then the fanitical christian your always talking about? Did you ever stop to see that 80 percent of usm trys to tell you this but you can't see it? You want people to see it all your way, you do the very thing you accuse the christian of doing, its your way or no way. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 4:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I'll be back I have supper to make, not going to Mesquite until in the morning. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 5:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
FB, you can stop with the strawman claims anytime now. Oh, forgot, you don't know what a strawman is; even though it has been explained to death. a strawman assertion= when you attack the MADE UP version ; YOUR version of what YOU "THINK" is my position, and then proceed tearing down that "strawman" version INSTEAD OF.....the REAL , my actual position. Because its easier for you to do that; and ignore MY actual position. It is too hard; and mostly impossible for you do attack what my honest, real, truthful position IS. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 5:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
I NEVER, EVER in my life "blamed God"! I did not blame god all those years, and I certainly do not blame god now. That old worn out "you're just blaming god" is a fine example of a STRAWMAN claim. It is said by every preacher, and every christian from here to TimBukTu. It is much easier to just throw out that and never give any serious thought to why people REALLY reject their religion and or stop believing. It is not because "I didn't like what the Bible says...or god says; the people of god says....yada yada" that I reject it. That is another of your strawman assertions. (Your whole response there is a freaking strawman) THE TRUTHFULNESS of something doesn't depend on how many people "like" it!! That is another fallacy of logic called "Appeal to authority" (Well, if millions of people believe something it must be true). "fanatical words" , "agenda"? Oh please. Grow up! You're ridiculously , hopelessly engaging in ad homminums there with all that. I'm not jumping through that hoop, dearie. It's silly schoolyard stuff and non-productive. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 5:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 30093
Dude, I totally thought this post was about premarital sex. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 5:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
The man who has no God (doesn't believe in ANY gods) won't commit evil and then pretend it is for some greater, invisible good. (or say the ends justify the means). He won't stand by and watch a child suffer and then pretend that somebody else (or God) will magically make the pain go away.....If a man is hungry, he won't "pray for god to make a way". He cannot think of himself as somehow morally above or privileged over his peers BECAUSE he believes in "God". |
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Date: 9/7/2007 5:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 15394
more garbage in the name of God than in any other name ... not the direction for ANY nation... imho |
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Date: 9/7/2007 6:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
But a man who has God or rather believes in a god, can do these things. He can justify anything; justify murdering the body to save the soul - and indeed, many have. (Inquisitions/crusades/Salem/mothers-who-kill-their-children-to-save-them). He can justify the suffering of the child as somehow advancing a some grander plan - and indeed, many have. He can claim special dispensation for himself and hellfire for everyone else - and indeed, many have. He can spew out "Love thy neighbor" and "God is love" until he is blue in the face, but then talk about that neighbor; slander that neighbor, or in secret hate his guts...IF he is a homosexual, Muslim, or an atheist. Religion does not make people moral. What religion does is enable people to be immoral. Religion puts a pretty dress on ..... puts a pretty face on hatred, racism, bigotry; sheer wickedness and all that facade. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 6:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
REAL morality; Genuine moral and ethical behaviour does not need motivational promises of heavenly rewards, or inhumane , sadistic threats of eternal torture and hellfire. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 8:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Thinker you said, "It isn’t the godless people who are breaking the laws. It isn't the godless who turn into "liars and cheats and greedy with no care or compassion for their fellow man." Does this mean that only those with a God do these things? Do tell me that people with no God are perfect and don't do these things? No one said christians didn't turn bad, if you think that your very wrong and do tell me where I said that only christians were perfect? |
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Date: 9/7/2007 8:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
POINT BEING many of the Christians are as BAD as those that believe there is no God, and I'm not talking morals here, I'm talking about allowing God to be in our lives and to thank Him for all that he gives. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 8:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
And are you saying that the Godless don't break any laws? |
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Date: 9/7/2007 8:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
You said, "What moral purpose does a god serve? None,....none that I can see. The contribution is purely negative, encouraging fanatics to inflict with a good conscience tortures that they would not inflict otherwise if they were acting from purely human motives. " Have you lost your marbles? Are you now saying that all Christians tortures? Can you hear what your saying? Moral purpose, you can't see the good and upstanding MORAL Christians thinker because you don't want to, you only want to see the bad ones. Once again, I ask you are you saying that non believers never have murdered, raped, or broke any laws? |
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Date: 9/7/2007 8:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
If you thinker, put as much study in what the church is really about in THIS TIME and DAY, perhaps you would finally be rid of the notions that we don't allow people that believe in God to think, or learn of other cultures or different belief system, Gee guess what this is the 20th centry and yes we can vote and be in politics, I don't get where you get your mis-information about what they bible tells us, OH yeh yeh thats right, you get it right out of the OLD Testament, with the ordinances that have NOT been followed for thousands of years. You keep mis-understanding that most the stuff in the past couple hundred years was done by the catholic church and their mis use of Gods word with their man made garbage called the inquistion, and you tag that to all christians. Then I have to laugh at your little side note to DP, see you are wrong yet again, accepting a person being gay isn't what is going to bring Gods protective hand that was on this united states, from going away, its the total HATE of God, such as you have, its the total dis-compassion that people have for others that they would steal from them and murder them, never lift a hand to help another person. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 8:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I'm sorry thinker but your actions and words make me sick with your snide remarks and downright lies. I'm through with any comments to you, and I'll go on with the rest of this post as if your not here. Not too long ago George made a post saying wheres thinker she needs to come back. And that is all good and fine, as even I said, sure bring her back or words to that effect, I guess I just forgot and apparently so did so many others, and why anyone would want to have so much hate and discord coming from someone day after day is beyond me. So I'm thinking we need to do like we did before you left. I'll not comment to you and please do not comment to me. Your words are dead to me. I think it will be better that way dont you? |
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Date: 9/7/2007 8:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
(Plus he’s probably starting to have suspicions about his son. 2,000 years and *still* no wife? *Still* hanging around with John and the rest of those guys… LOL I loved it DP. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 8:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Please; you're being absurd. I never said; nor meant to imply that godless people are perfect. Go back and read again. FB, Raz said in this post: "What happened ? In order for it to succeed you have to have it backed by religion , which our country prohibits ." and this : ".....everyone is losing their religion and as a result their morals also" Now, Since America has the highest rate of murder, robbery, rape, children having babies out of wedlock, the highest rate of divorce, highest numbers of people in prison ;etc. etc. etc., and since America is one of the most religious nations on this planet (predominently Christian) then I find something very wrong with his statements . Don't you? MY explanations above is countering Raz's statements. The age-old presumption that "Christians are clean and decent people and more moral" and "everyone else who don't believe in God is not " is absurd. Pointing to the Bible and claiming it to be a moral guide is also completely absurd. Christians cherry pick, cherry pick and pick; cherry pick verses, and cherry pick their interpretations; they also cherry pick when they are going to cherry pick. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 8:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
"its the total HATE of God, such as you have" RUBBISH! You've been throwing out that nonsense for years, FB. And you've been told time and time again. It is impossible to hate that which you do not even believe EXIST! You cannot understand that; but that is not my problem. For those who have been religious for their entire lives, it's very hard to comprehend the very concept of non-belief, especially the fact that there are people who don't feel the need to believe in anything supernatural. Religion has; IS such an integral part of your life that you can't imagine even functioning without it, so you project your way of thinking onto others and (erroneously) deduce that we atheists all REALLY do believe in god, but we don't "like him" much. That simply is NOT the case. |
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Date: 9/7/2007 9:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
"If you thinker, put as much study in what the church is really about in THIS TIME and DAY, perhaps you would finally be rid of the notion.." Again, you have a severe loss of memory. I've explained in great detail, all the same old points you've made here tonight. ALL has been refuted, debunked and hashed and rehashed to death. YOU refuse to consider; think about and or offer rebuttal. You instead go off on a wild tangent about ME, personally; talking about 80% of USM (you took a poll?); spitting out strawman after strawman; accusing me of that which you yourself THINK . HERE.....perhaps this will teach you something, FB. That is if you REAllY want to know: Why do atheists care about religion? http://youtube.com/watch?v=VwQZn3Us5FY |
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Date: 9/7/2007 9:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
"downright lies"? Pitiful. Just pitiful, FB. SHOW ME!!! SHOW ME WHERE I have lied. You're pathetic with your charges of "hate and discord". Oh honey, I'm so used to that. This comes from the religious every single time one calls them on their assertions of moral superiority. Whatever... But if it makes you feel better, keep right on believing in your fantasies; and delusions. No matter what happens, you'll always have it around to comfort & cherish. Beliefs that are impervious to empirical evidence tend to have that virtue. Cest le vie . |
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Date: 9/7/2007 9:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
BIBLICAL Morals: http://youtube.com/watch?v=nwGFPKjFkXM |
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Date: 9/7/2007 9:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
These are far superior to the Biblical 10 Commandments >>>>>> The atheist's 10 commandments: http://youtube.com/watch?v=mt0YkoGGk8k&mode=related&search= |
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Date: 9/9/2007 7:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 30093
Rofl..not one to jump into anyones personal argument, I can't pass this particular scenario up: Firstborn, how many times have you chosen to completely ignore Thinker or myself or any others with whom you have "debated" and lost, only to fight with them the next day? I'm sorry, but you can never win a debate if you always act like this. |
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Date: 9/9/2007 2:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
"Win" a debate? Gee whiz, is that why we are all here? To "win" a debate? How juvenile is that? To have the mindset of having a winner or a loser is adversarial, divisive, and non-productive. We are here to express our opinions on debateable subjects, for the most part. We want our positions to be understood, which does not equate to agreed with. We want our reasoned arguments to be reasonably responded to, not just shouted down. How would you even measure a "win" here? The one who has the last word "wins"? Count how many people agree with your judgement and if they are the majority, you "win"? "Win" over someone to your point of view? Oh, and what I really want to know, is there any prize or trophy that goes with that "win"? God Bless. |
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Date: 9/9/2007 4:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 30093
I'm juvenile, yet it is she who constantly runs away from a debate without any sort of climax to it, or you who pick apart my entire comment based around one word? Certainly *I'm* the one being juvenile. Also: I don't need or want a blessing from your God, so I'd appreciate it greatly if you'd withhold that any time you address me. |
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Date: 9/9/2007 4:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 30093
I guess I really don't see the point of entering into a debate only to leave prematurely. Usually (and perhaps not the case here) the type of person who does that is only looking for a quick argument and not a true platform to represent their views. |
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Date: 9/9/2007 8:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Nanaki, You make me laugh. The reason I don't debate with you is because as usual, like on this post, you only call me out, never any other christian, and its not winning or to lose, but you and thinker are of the same kind, and I see no sense, in pounding my head against the wall. Besides who cares about winning? As I said her words are dead to me, let someone else listen to her snide, rude and wrong remarks. And that goes for you too. Your words after this comment are also dead to me. |
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Date: 9/9/2007 8:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I say a big Amen Deb to your comment. |
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Date: 9/10/2007 6:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 30093
If you cannot debate with all of your intellectual opponents, then you don't deserve to debate at all. You choose to make it personal every time I address you, I only point out fallacy in your arguments. I also never mentioned your religion, and above even suggested you and Thinker stay on topic. Also I do address other people when they were wrong, you just happen to be wrong more often. But as this post is dead to, I have only one thing to say : nannee nannee boo-boo, stick your head in doo doo. |
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Date: 9/10/2007 6:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 30093
dead to you* I spent half that comment erasing jibberish my cat wrote, I knew I'd end up erasing part of the actual comment. |
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Date: 9/10/2007 6:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 30093
dead to you* I spent half that comment erasing jibberish my cat wrote, I knew I'd end up erasing part of the actual comment. |
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Date: 9/10/2007 7:52:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Oh, I can stay on track. What this post addresses is broken promises. If a person promised only to themselves that they will keep this sort of pledge, and don't keep it, well, all they have to answer to is themselves. And since I am one of those people (as in, when I was a teenager and said this type of pledge to myself), then all I had to tell myself when I broke it was, they're MY morals and I can change them whenever I want to. It is a pretty easy way of thinking -- what I believe a lot of people would call "enlightenment", or even (LOL "education" these days. There's no consequence to your changing you mind. Now if someone promises this to a higher authority (for instance, a parent) and breaks their promise, the question is: Are you sorry you broke a promise? There are only two answers to this question. If it is "yes" then one can express their repentence, ask forgiveness, and seek to live life with the knowledge that mistakes beget consequences, and consequences are not usually fatal. If the answer is "no", then the reasoning is usually going to be traced back to the notion that there was no respect for that higher authority in the first place. God Bless. |
Date: 9/10/2007 9:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 59876
i don't believe in virginity pledges, nor do i believe that safe sex is better than no sex. i think jungabel was dead on in her comments about valuing one's self and being taught to make good choices. undeniably, abstinence is still the safest choice, but not all kids are going to choose it. education in all otions is the best course of action in my view, from teaching that abstinence is the safest option, to covering the different forms of birth control, how to obtain them, and how to use them. also, what std's are, the fact that some of them cannot be cured, side effects, and the very real possibility of spending one's life having to moderate one's behavior based on not sharing disease with someone they love. most of this was taught to me right along with budgeting, writing checks, geting an apartment, etc. we had the baby progect, another valuable tool. it is good to see all the aspects and consequences, not just that which people feel strongly about. kids will be kids and get to an age where one must let them make their own decisions and mistakes, but it is the prudent thing to do to give them as much crucial information as possible and teach them to deal responsibly with the consequences of their actions.  |
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Date: 9/10/2007 5:08:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 13283
My friend regrets getting pregnant as a teen . She practically signed her life away . She is going to struggle getting a career and raising a baby . She cannot go clubbing or partying anymore because she has to be there for her baby . She so wishes she had waited . I now have a neighbor who just got pregnant at 16 . Yes , she was already clubbing and now she has to give that up . She is in for a BIG surprise once her baby is born . Females are just not mature enough to deal with these BIG life issues at such a young age . Taking the Virginity Pledge is the way to go . Grow up a little . Razzy aka |
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Date: 9/10/2007 5:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 15394
"females" aren't mature enough?? I'm sure young men are totally ready!! LOL |
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Date: 9/10/2007 6:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 59876
well, before everyone spouts off on the pros and cons of the virginity pledge, don't you think it would be a good idea to give a better idea of the actual contents of the pledge itself? is it simple a pledge to abstain? or is it a pledge to absain that has a relegious base? inquiring minds want to know. who are you telling to grow up a little? you knew this would be a heated discussion, especially the aspect based in religion. |
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Date: 9/10/2007 8:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 30093
". Females are just not mature enough to deal with these BIG life issues at such a young age . Taking the Virginity Pledge is the way to go . Grow up a little . " Females? I don't think ANYBODY is ready to have a child at age 16. Seems to me that your friends were a bit too....promiscuous. How terribly sad that she has to give up a life of CLUBBING to care for the child that she is completely responsible for. What a terrible life that must be. *Insert rolling eyes smiley* |
Date: 9/11/2007 6:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 19613
Solution - Lesbianism  |
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Date: 9/11/2007 6:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 30093
That's my solution to a lot of things. |
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Date: 9/11/2007 8:04:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Well if that were the solution, then where are all the younger guys going to come from for the years when you want to be the experienced mentor for them? God bless. |
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Date: 9/12/2007 4:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Somethings need to be private and left up to the individuals without the religious and self-righteous sticking their noses in. What next? A missionary style pledge (to stop any of that sinful behavior in the bedroom)? An anti-contraceptives pledge? |
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Date: 9/12/2007 7:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 19613
How about a pledge “Pledge”? A pledge not to take any pledges. Paradoxes rule. |
Date: 9/13/2007 3:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
The problem with most people is that they think that abstinence works. It does, if one has the will to endure those torturous years of homorone changes and being slammed with sex images. The Sexual Revolution started a train that is out of control. I don't think that sex will stop anyway. My grampa is 77 years old. I remember him telling me that in his day, people were sexually active. I guess what you could do is put it back in the closet and not let people be as aware. I guess we could go back to not talking to our kids or providing contraception. The REALITY (caps for emphasis) of the situation is that sex is very much apart of normal human behavior, just like food. The only problem arises when people abuse it. I personally would rather have a world where people have the freedom to choose their sexual partners than a world where people don't learn about it until their wedding night or are raised thinking its a terrible thing, so they abuse it and other people. If saving yourself for marriage worked for you, then great. But it doesn't for everyone.  |
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Date: 9/13/2007 3:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
Oh, I am in no way advocating sex for young people. I do believe its something that should be done when people are in a stable relationship and are financially and emotionally capable of the responsibility of it, as well as any unplanned pregnancies. |
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Date: 9/13/2007 4:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
Thinker, couldn't have said it better myself. Love ya girl! |
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Date: 9/13/2007 4:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
Uzi... I thought that the Arabs hated us because we're free and because we're a Christian nation? |
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Date: 9/13/2007 4:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
Deb, just because you're sorry doesn't mean youwon't do it again. |
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Date: 9/13/2007 4:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
Royal, you made comments about young teen mothers. Why is it that the mother has to give up all that? Why can't the father be there to help her raise it??! A major problem is that many girls think that love=sex. Thats simply not true. I remember at 14 watching movies where two people were in love and they would have sex. Then something another movie came out (can't remember which one) and they were in love and about to have sex. Something happened and they couldn't. The first thought through my head was "Wait!!!! They're in love!! THEY HAVE TO DO IT!" Then it hit my what idiocy that thought was. However, most girls are not smart enough to figure it out. Since then, I've never had sex with a person to get him to love me. Its always been because its mutually pleasing. I think that abstinence fails when its the ONLY solution taught. If you inherit $100,000 from your great great Aunt Mertyl, you're probably going to want to invest it. If you took it to an advisor and asked him what to do, he'd be an idiot if he said, "Well, I advise you to invest only in Dow Jones!" Thats obvious. There are so many other ways to invest and do it safely instead of pouring all you money into the stock market. Same with sex. If you're in a relationship wtih someone that you trust and love and its SHARED. Then I don't think that there is a problem with having it. Its just when people use it for personal gain that its wrong and harmful |
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Date: 9/13/2007 5:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
another thing that I forgot to mention is the fact that people act as if a child is a judgement. I remember when I was going to church, the daughter of a high ranking person in the church got pregnant at 17. She wasn't married. I remember my gramma telling me, "I feel so sorry for her. She's giving up her life. She's going to have to struggle to get through school and she's going to lose her figure." I've just been told my whole life, "If you get pregnant, you'll ruin your life and it will be hard." A child is not a form of judgement. Its just something that happens when people act naturally and don't take the measures to prevent it. |
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Date: 9/13/2007 5:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
lol@ dp |
Date: 9/13/2007 6:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 28190
JesusFreak definitely summed up what I was going to say. I lost my virginity at a young age, but after the heartache of going through that, when I met my husband, we did wait. It was NOT for religious purposes, or anything like that. It was something we both decided to do, and it worked for us. When will people like you, Raz really start to realize that you can't Nor should you have the ability to control something like this, all under the guise of religion? I'm a Christian too (well, probably closer to agnostic, but still), and I don't pick and choose what to believe is right or wrong. I live by the, "love one another, and don't judge people" concept. This is one of those issues that I don't judge a person on. In fact, I've had plenty of friends growing up that had babies at a young age, and they Stepped up. They did what they had to, but guess which part of the equation didn't? THE DAD's. Seems to me your statement on the maturity of women is too broad, whileas, yes there are immature girls out there, there are FAR more immature males that think with the wrong brain all the time. They don't care if they hurt the girl, just as long as they get theirs. Had you included the male side of the equation, I might would have agreed with that. Having a child is hard work, and I bet it's harder the younger you are, but it's definitely not 'ruining' anything. A child will not ruin anything, unless you let them. All the girls that I knew when I was younger that had children, stayed in school, and went to college. A few of them did it all, work, school, and watching their children WITHOUT family help. Why? Because we live in the Bible belt and they were disowned for having a child out of wedlock. So tell me, which is worse, a teen that is doing what nature/hormones are there for (on top of not being educated properly in most cases) OR Parents disowning said teen for getting pregnant? If Parents would step up and help educate their children on what sex is all about, so that they can make informed decisions (INSTEAD of letting the schools teach them), then possibly there would be a major decline in unwanted/unplanned pregnancies. Some little pledge isn't going to change a darn thing.  |
Date: 9/13/2007 9:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 60792
yeah I've never heard of this pledge. But I guarantee that even if this pledge went across my school, the same people would still have gotten pregnant. A pledge only works if YOU truly mean it. And if you are truly adamant about staying a virgin until marriage, then pledge or not, you probably will stick to that. And please, I'm not even gonna comment on the religion bit....cause I see it's already been brought up and debated. It's old and tired...bah. The point is, make the pledge to yourself, don't make it a societal movement.  |
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Date: 9/14/2007 7:52:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Alisha, don't I know that! God Bless. |
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Date: 9/16/2007 2:07:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 13283
Amanda I am sorry for not mentioning a teen males immaturity enough . They are able to get away with alot since it is the gal that gets stuck with the problem ( baby ) . Guys manipulate and blackmail women . Its like you said ..... they Stepped up. They did what they had to, but guess which part of the equation didn't? THE DAD's. .........there are FAR more immature males that think with the wrong brain all the time. They don't care if they hurt the girl, just as long as they get theirs. Male teens are not willing to make a commitment , they just want to use a teen female . Thats why its good to wait until a guy is responsible and mature . Stay out of trouble . Razzy |
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Date: 9/19/2007 7:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 60792
great way to generalize... |
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