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Date: 5/14/2007 12:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
Or maybe it's all fantasy...  |
Date: 5/14/2007 12:37:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
If its all a fantasy then you a figment of my imagination and im not really typing this am i...  |
Date: 5/14/2007 12:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 62998
what if your a figment of Her fantasy? Then your still not typing it  |
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Date: 5/14/2007 12:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 62998
The problem with Fantasy's is this, one can not use the figment of anyone's fantasy's part to justify any thing. Here's why, because once done, the fantasy no longer holds weight, and loses it's ground with everyone whose involved. |
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Date: 5/14/2007 12:50:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Hey, if im a figment of any females imagination then I'd say its been a good day. On a seriouse note, I dont live in a fantasy world where good and evil clash on a daily basis. But I do live in reality where good and evil clash on a dail basis. Get it? |
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Date: 5/14/2007 12:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 62998
Of course I get, but that certainly would make God and Devil the same being. I don't believe in either and I can see that. God (to the Christians) is all powerful good and the Devil (once again to the Christians) is NOT all powerful evil, if he were he would have over throw God by now and claimed heaven for himself. All you would have to do is read the bible for that one. |
Date: 5/14/2007 1:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
The Process Church, aka, The Process Church of the Final Judgment, most commonly known by non-members as the "Process Church", was a religious group that flourished in the 1960s and '70s. They are a splinter Group of Scientology, and they were often viewed as "Satanic" on the grounds that they worshipped both Christ and Satan. Their belief is that Satan will become reconciled to Christ, and together will come at the end of the world to judge humanity, Christ to judge and Satan to execute judgment.  |
Date: 5/14/2007 1:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
The Yazidi did the same thing, worshipping both God & the Devil equally. Now, granted, the two examples I gave were groups that worshipped both equally, I would imagine since "Nothing is new under the Sun", there must be some group/religion/cult that believe that God/Lucifer are the same Diety. That was, after all, the question that this post presented? I mean there can be no actual Debate because frankly? We don't know the answers yet.  |
Date: 5/14/2007 1:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 30051
I really like your post..I do believe "satan" is an Angel..I don't think he is the ruler of anything though..I don't believe Hell is what humans have made it out to be..I think there are dark souls and when they die they do go to "hell" I believe it is a dark place where there is a TOTAL absense of God..So that would include everything He has ever made..No trees, flowers, mountains..No LOVE whats so ever for God is Love..Now THAT would suck worse then any physical pain you would feel in the fire and brimstone hell..I could very well be full of crap..Either way I know I won't be visiting Hell anytime soon..I agree with most of what you said! Check it out http://myusm.com/usm478087.html  |
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Date: 5/14/2007 2:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 30051
Wow..SpiritChild..That's a different view now Isn't it?? I have studied Scientology and I will say I think they are WACKED! I sure hope they are wrong in there beliefs..I don't know who is right or wrong..I just pray that they are as crazy as I think they are..I read these books a while back that made me wonder..I don't remember what they were called..But they were about this human boy who turned into an Angel..and the way they described Satan was..well It was worth pondering..They portrayed him as full of sorrow for the war he started in heaven and he wasn't jealous of God he was jealous of us..humans. |
Date: 5/14/2007 2:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 64304
as far as i am concerned Satan doesn't sin he just tempts people. so he can chill with god ask him questions and then ask for permission to mess with ya and see how you feel.  |
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Date: 5/14/2007 2:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 44237
You know, I hate to admit it but Demon Rage you are a smart cookie but your still a pain the butt. LOL I love you all! Kathy  |
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Date: 5/14/2007 2:19:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Spirit Child, Religion is debated everyday and religion is just faith, thoughts, in the end nothing tangible. My post isnt tangible but I was expecting some scripture pullinng from the die hard 'No your wrong, bible is everything' christian. Hey, I guess when your right your right...how does that make people feel. |
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Date: 5/14/2007 2:22:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Spirit Child...there may be religions in which they worship whatever whatever but concering my post and my views - my creator doesnt desire worship. It simply wants us to respect it and everything it created and give thanks. When I say give thanks I dont mean kneel on the floor praying your heart out i mean looking up in the sky and feeling the wind with a smile. Give thanks by helping others and thy self. |
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Date: 5/14/2007 2:27:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
In the end if this post has brought one ounce of doubt into anyones mind concerning the way life runs then I have met my goal. If you can sit their and read this post and click the X button cause you have nothing to say then you are leading a blind faith. Funny, isnt all faith blind. |
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Date: 5/14/2007 2:37:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Also Spirit Child, my post has many different arguments not just the God and devil being the same being, ya know. |
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Date: 5/14/2007 2:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
I'm sorry Boom-Boom, exactly what did I say to warrant the long replies? I mentioned two examples of groups that believe that Lucifer & God both should be worshipped equally. I made the point that I am sure that some group believes that they are the same Diety. Are you offended because I mentioned this is not a Debate per se? It's not a "Debate" as such. We cannot debate what we do not know. More importantly, we cannot debate what has no empirical evidence to support any position. |
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Date: 5/14/2007 2:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
As the the balance between Light/Dark, Yin/Yang, I absolutely support that idea. I do believe there has to be balance in all things. |
Date: 5/14/2007 2:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
QUOTE In the end if this post has brought one ounce of doubt into anyones mind concerning the way life runs then I have met my goal.) I have absolutely no idea what this stament is supposed to mean. It would imply that you have an "answer", or solution that the rest of us do not? I like the way my life is running.  And, I am very comfortable in my Faith. It was not always so, but I have come to terms with what I believe the "Truth" to be.... |
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Date: 5/14/2007 3:05:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
I dont get offended, I get even Empirical Eh? Everyone has plenty of empirical evidence you guys just havent put two and two together. And I've had plenty of debates of religion and spiritual matters and have gotten floods of replies with people taking positions...so tell me what makes this different from my previous post or even yours that people argue from. Im questioning your religion. Im question the reason you wake up, im questioning the reasons you make your actions. I believe there are plenty points to this post to debate. |
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Date: 5/14/2007 3:09:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
As long as your happy Spirit, good for you I dont have an answer I like you and everyone else I have questions. Maybe unlike everyone else, I like to argue to get my answers even if i have to pull a few hairs. The statement means what it says. |
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Date: 5/14/2007 3:10:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
I, like you * |
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Date: 5/14/2007 3:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
*chuckling* Pay no attention to me. I am busy getting ready for a Annual Board (Bored) Meeting for my Condo Association, and because I am not enough of a masochist, I am actually on the ballot, running for President. And, it looks like I am going to win *sigh*....<--nevermind, off-topic. :P Just wish me "luck" o.k.? |
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Date: 5/14/2007 3:43:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Good luck |
Date: 5/14/2007 4:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 63121
I don't think that God and the Devil are the same.... but if you think some things over too much, you come up with some crazy questions... I God was perfect, and made the angels perfect beings, then how did Satan sin. Where did that sin come from. It never existed before, then why all of a sudden. The Bible says that Satan tempts up and that the flesh tempts us... but Satan had no influance. I just find it really weird. I think there's just something we aren't getting to know here. But it could be that there is no balance without good and evil... Someone had to give. Maybe it was just one of the effects of the laws of the spiritual. Great post! Thanx for sharing.  |
Date: 5/14/2007 4:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 14780
Are you a cat? *meow*...LOL...as for the rest of your post that is a interesting perspective I cant say that I agree or even disagree.  |
Date: 5/14/2007 4:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
Mmmm. I'd say you are on the right track; keep studying. "...I was expecting some scripture pullinng from the die hard 'No your wrong, bible is everything' christian." Ah, BoomBoom, the post is young...  |
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Date: 5/14/2007 5:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
I believe we have more reason not to believe an a personal judeo-christian style god, or devil, than we do to believe in either. |
Date: 5/14/2007 5:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 21923
Interesting side note, but related. The very first Jews, as we would call them, did not believe in Lucifer as an evil entity. In fact, they believed he sat right beside God, and acted as his judge (and jury). You see some remnants of this in the Old Testament (I believe with Cain and Able, but don't quote me on it. Sorry just jumpin in with some info, don't have my books.) Anyway, Lucifer has to go to God and get his permission to try them. God grants it. A supremely evil being would not need God's permission now would he, and as Lucifers sworn enemy God surely would not grant it would he? Thus leading to Lucifer being God's servant. His job? To try mankind and let them prove their heavenly mettle. Interesting huh? Peace  |
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Date: 5/14/2007 5:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
You might be onto something Headless Horseman. My Husband, for example has never been a Christian, and was raised in an Atheistic Society. He believes that in Judeo-Christian tradition that Angels, (and Daemons) were mere "Servants", and that they had no "Free Will", but merely served the Christian God. |
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Date: 5/14/2007 5:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 30051
I don't think angels can "sin" per say..They are not human..Sin was created for us eh? |
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Date: 5/14/2007 5:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 62998
3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: "Upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat." God curses the serpent. From now on he will crawl on his belly and eat dust. 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. "I will put enmity ... between thy seed and her seed. "The Two Seed Theory 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. As you can see here, even the early Jews, knew the difference between the God and the Devil, for the Torah would have told them what it was, that was from the Old Testament Genesis Books 3:14-16 |
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Date: 5/14/2007 5:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
I don't know CoryAnn-I thought Satan/Lucifer's great "sin" were the five "I wills....", ( "I will be like the most High"....) etc. I thought a 1/3 of the Angels "choose" to follow their "own" Will, instead of God's. |
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Date: 5/14/2007 5:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
Now this does have some implications: if Angels are only "servants" and cannot choose to "sin". then if they do not do God's Will, then aren't they REALLY doing God's will, because it would all be God who is making things happen? |
Date: 5/14/2007 7:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 63241
If, as you suggest, God & the devil are the same, why then, in the book of Job does the devil approach God & have a type of "power play" conversation over God's servant Job? (Now, this is totally irrelevant to those who don't believe the Bible anyway.) Just like the saying goes, "Two arguments to avoid are religion & politics". As evidenced by the comments here, this is proven.  |
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Date: 5/14/2007 10:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 30051
Sounds about right if you believe it..I think Lucifer started the war in heaven for different reasons. I think he did it because he was jealous that God created humans. Angels came first..He felt betrayed because God gave us more. The 5 I wills..Hmmm maybe he said that out of hurt? Haven't you ever said anything you didn't mean when you were upset? Don't get me wrong I believe there is evil in this world..as far as free will..I think Angels can make choices. They are not puppets..but we were given life..a body..earth..beautiful gifts that the Angels were asked to protect yet cannot live in. These are just my thoughts..not truths. There is only one truth and we will not know it until we die. |
Date: 5/15/2007 2:21:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Demon Rage, The Torahs talking snake is just a talking snake, its not Satan as it is in Christianity.  |
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Date: 5/15/2007 6:02:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
All negative emotions like jealousy and hate belong to lower life forms like humans demons and the related. If your a being that is standing right next to the almighty creator then you must have been some high being not one that harbors thoughts of hate and power. |
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Date: 5/15/2007 6:09:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Woodelf, if you could pull some scriptures out the bible i would like to give my version of what it means it me. My other point concerning the book of Job...did you know that there exist a 'Book Of Judas'...Im sure he painted himself not as the killer of Jesus Christ...my point is everyone wants there spot in history, what better way then to write a book about yourself and bury it. |
Date: 5/15/2007 6:14:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Katsho  Its my 'thing'. I do it all over online and in real life. Imagine your just have a conversation with me or someone else and you just a "MEOW" coming out of nowhere. I enjoy it ; ) |
Date: 5/15/2007 6:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 62823
Boom Boom, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees when they tried to call Him Beezlebub. This proves that God and the devil are not "one". Those who are not "one" with God are against God as the fallen angels (demons) were/are. A sect of the angelic realm did have "free will". There are many different legions and sects of angels and Lucifer was of a very advanced and high sect in the higherarchy before he fell from grace. Below is the account of what happened.  |
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Date: 5/15/2007 6:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 62823
"A man possessed with a demon was then brought to Him. The demon had made him blind and dumb, and Jesus healed him. All the people were amazed, and said, Isn't this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard of it they said, "This man is casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub the prince of demons." But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How shall then his kingdom stand? If I cast out devils by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast demons out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God is come to you. "How can someone enter into a strong man's house, and steal his belongings unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can steal everything in his house. Anyone who is not with me is against me; and anyone that doesn't gather with me scatters abroad. "So I say unto you, all sins and blasphemy will be forgiven men when they repent. But the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven men. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come. You generation of vipers, how can you who are evil, speak good things? Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good things in his heart speaks and does good things. An evil man out of the evil things in his heart speaks and does evil things. I tell you, in the day of judgment people will give account of every idle offhand word that they speak. By your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." |
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Date: 5/15/2007 7:17:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
To be one with god would mean to die and travel back to the essence of 'it'. God is perfection. Those that are not one with god are surely not against him. If God saw it as you see it that would be God ignorant and a tyrant. |
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Date: 5/15/2007 7:22:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Also, you can be evil and speak and do good things. Whether you be human or demon. Church does good things but how many did they slaughter in the name of god - how man indians did the spainish kill - all in the name of purification...in gods name. |
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Date: 5/15/2007 7:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 62998
Now your confusing Pure Evil, with the evil that people do. Those killing the Indians weren't doing in God's or the Devil's name, they did it because they wanted the land for Spain and for themselves. Big difference between PURE EVIL and the evil that people do. |
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Date: 5/15/2007 7:55:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
So why let some live only for the ones to survive to be reformed into there religion. I think they gave them a choice...turn to christ or die (from what I've read and saw in videos). Its speculation nonetheless. Also good and evil are man made concepts - when you break it all down it turns into negative and postive. |
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Date: 5/15/2007 9:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 62998
Because who are you to be doing the decisions for anyone but yourself? You have no right to tell these people what they should or shouldn't believe in. That decision is based for them is for them to decide, for anyone who decides who is right and wrong is to declared a heretic and shunned. |
Date: 5/15/2007 9:52:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Hmmmm. "God and the devil are the same being." This would be true it there was such a thing as "the devil", but there's not. There WAS Lucifer, who saw God's Creation going on here on earth, and the physical delights that humanoids were experiencing, and who wanted that for himself and, ostensibly, his followers. So, God Gave that to them, by way of flinging them out of Heaven unto Earth. At that point in earth's history, the humanoids were not homosapiens, but once "mixed" with the fallen angels, homosapiens came into being, thus making the fallen angles what scientists are looking for in the "missing link". What did the mix of God's Creation and the fallen angels produce that wasn't in existence before? What is it that human beings have that the rest of Creation doesn't? Higher intelligence? Advanced thought processes? People, "the devil" is in your mind! The effect of this breeding is that most human beings' brain power is infused with that of Lucifer, aka, "Satan", aka "the devil". And just what was Lucifer's mindset? To be contrary to God; to want to "be" God; to want to be the one in "control"? There is a mixture in our brains of that which is from God and/or that which is from Lucifer, in direct proportion to the lineage we come from. God's Original Creation did evolve into the lineage which Mary comes from, hence her head was completely given unto God. That lineage is rare. The rest of us have the mixture -- some people have more of Lucifer's mind in them than others; some people have more of God's Mind in them (occurring naturally) than others. What Jesus' message is, is that WE ALL CAN have more of God's Mind in us, as the Holy Spirit can trump Lucifer's mindset, IF WE ALLOW THAT TO OCCUR WITHIN US. The tricky part is that our human minds have, as Boom Boom has already elucidated, come up with this concept of "good" and "evil" and whatever is "good" is what humans should strive for. But the concept of "good" and "evil" doesn't apply to God, because GOD IS ALL! So, how are we supposed to make decisions that bring us, the Holy Spirit within us as One, with God? How are we supposed to know what is "right" or what is "wrong"? Well, that is where our feelings come into play . . . we "feel" what is right and what is wrong. It is the interaction of our feelings with our minds and with our physical beings (which includes all our physical environment and those in it) that tells us when we are following the Holy Spirit, for when all three aspects of our being are reconciled (i.e., all on the same page), then we are in peace, which is the "state" of Heaven. Oh, yeah, this is all just my humble thoughts, feelings, and experiences on the subject. God Bless.  |
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Date: 5/15/2007 1:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
In your own words (anyone), what is your definition of "evil?" Just curious. And don't say "live spelled backwards!" |
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Date: 5/15/2007 1:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
*Pouts* But, that's the answer I want to give . . . Honestly, truthfully, "evil" to me is: if I ever felt I had committed "evil" and not counter-balanced it with a larger amount of that which is "good", my own thoughts about myself would condemn me to the physical realm of Hell. God Bless. |
Date: 5/15/2007 1:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 62823
Boom Boom, If a person is not with God can you explain to me how they cannot be against God? If they do not love, recognize or worship God the Father than it seems to me that they'd be in opposition of everything the Creator is about. There are only two choices. Either you are with God or against God. If the soul does not choose God I can only look at it this way. God is merciful, loving and kind and whatever good that soul did on Earth will not be overlooked. If the soul did no good on Earth I can only assume that God has another plan for that soul. I have not been to the other side so I do not know for sure. I can only convey to you what I have read from the saints and other light beings who have made it to Heaven and have visited the realms of the demons in Hell and they say there is such a place for souls who do not believe in God. I looked up the definition of demon and it said: "A fallen angel that assists Satan in the opposition of God. Demons are evil (Luke 10:17,18), powerful (Luke 8 9), and under the power of Satan (Matt. 124-30). They recognized Christ (Mark 13,24) and can possess non-Christians (Matt. 89)." As for your comment about "Church", it is true...even the holiest of holy men and entities on Earth can be tempted to sin. Nobody is immune...not even the Pope, Cardinals, Ministers, Bishops...nobody. Everybody has free will to choose to do right or wrong. Demons roam the earth because they refused to be one with God. We know that God is always with us through the Holy Spirit yet we can reject His loving presence through sin at any moment and refuse Him just like the fallen angels did. They casted themselves out of the grace of God. That was their own doing. |
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Date: 5/15/2007 2:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
Hi Deb! No need to pout. I see your definition, and am expanding it to see what other people say. When you think about it, I think it can be a tricky question. Shakespeare wrote "Nothing is good nor bad but thinking makes it so." I agree, but he said "bad," not "evil." I have my own definiton of "evil," but I want to see what others say, too. In my thinking, there is a strange paradox here... |
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Date: 5/15/2007 3:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
If Satan is an opponent of God's then wouldn't looking for accurate informatioin about him in the Bible be akin to basing your opinion of say George W. Bush, on what John Kerry has to say? |
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Date: 5/15/2007 4:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
^^^Not if you take the viewpoint that the Bible was written by men in the middle writing as objectively as they can. Or that God is always Truthful and not given to human deceit. |
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Date: 5/15/2007 4:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
Is the concept of "evil" really even known in the OT? |
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Date: 5/15/2007 4:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
Okay, it is mentioned at the very beginning when one talks about the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But anywhere else? |
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Date: 5/15/2007 6:14:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Deb – Whether I call him the Devil Lucifer Satan Leviathan Ruler of the air wolf dragon My point is you guys knew which figure I was talking about. Deb, in my opinion in order to Ascend into the king of heaven you must shed your human skin and your human emotions such as greed, jealousy envy hate. I believe even you would admit emotions like those do not belong in heaven. Fallen angels having sex with humans? Angelkin(?) And who said the human race is lacking anything compared to the rest of creation. The human race lacks the knowledge of the other side and the negative and positive. What makes us unique is the ability to understand, learn and progress. To say that we as humans have this negative side in us because of fallen angels had sex frsfs….The negative in us works in conjunction with the positive. We were born with this natural energy system in our body – call it ki, chi, life energy or whatever my point is we need this life energy to be balanced. Lets say your right and then lets say Satan was never kicked out of heaven and no having sex went out with humans. So your saying that we would have nothing but positive energy in our system and everyone would be walking around with smiles and love pouring out there ears which inturn makes them vulnerable to being killed by animals and that natural survive instinct doesn’t kick in cause your busy enjoying the feel of the animals fur as it rips your organs out. You are who you are cause of the balance. Not once in the bible did Jesus say we can have gods mind. Maybe you read with patience we can be like god. You don’t have to “follow the holy spirit” to one with god. The bible is one big misinterpretation get even more misinterpreted. |
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Date: 5/15/2007 6:24:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
62823 - Im not with your god but im with my creator - so does this make me against god? My god doesn’t need to be worshiped in some shack for an hour. I worship every time I look up into the sky. I say thank you for making this world. Christianities view on what a demon is a fallen angel. They don’t want to admit that demons roam the free world doing what they wish and probably cause a lot of the havoc and mayhem in this world. Every time I see a killer or someone on tv that had no history of psychotic behavior but said all of a sudden they started hearing voices and seeing ghost, ya know. Demons aren’t under the power of Satan, they are under the power of there own free will…which is more scary. Demons roam the earth because they have free will like us…either to worship god, be neutral or be evil and use there powers to a feed off the fear and chaos they cause. Maybe it gets em high. |
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Date: 5/15/2007 6:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
There is no such thing as “accurate information on satan”. Who am I going to ask? The bible? Which some piece of the scriptures were interpreted by people, cut, lost, missing, thrown away and interpreted….by people. I’m good…I rather go on another source. Bush and Kerry were both part of the Society of Skull and Bones…which they both admit to on recorded television… |
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Date: 5/15/2007 6:34:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Evil is negativity - negativity is energy. Negativity is all in your eyes. Like those people that are absolute *not nice people* and it seems that karma never catches up with that. I believe if you don’t acknowledge the negative and positive you soul just becomes hollow and you turn into a shell of flesh and die early…or miserable (which is worse?) |
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Date: 5/15/2007 7:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Boom, You say " in my opinion in order to Ascend into the king of heaven you must shed your human skin and your human emotions such as greed, jealousy envy hate.".. and.. "There is no such thing as “accurate information on satan”. Who am I going to ask? The bible? Which some piece of the scriptures were interpreted by people, cut, lost, missing, thrown away and interpreted….by people. " Question... How do you know that God or the devil, the angels, or even heaven exist? Did someone tell you these things exists? Have you seen God or an angel? Have you or someone you know ever been to heaven? Are you believing something that mere man has told you? Did you read it somewhere? Who or what are you believing?  |
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Date: 5/15/2007 7:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
That's what I was going to ask ^ |
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Date: 5/15/2007 8:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
Okay, if evil is all in one's eyes and thus (I am assuming) not an objective abstract outside the human brain, then what is sin? I always put the two together in that sin was the physical (or mental) act brought on by evil. Jesus seems to talk about sin as something that is higher than a creation of a man's mind, something more than just personally seeing something as a sin. |
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Date: 5/16/2007 3:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
Sin is a way of lumping everything you or your religion doesn't agree with under a neat title. |
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Date: 5/16/2007 8:42:00 AM
From Authorid: 62823
Boom, God is God. Whether or not my interpretation is different from yours, it really does not matter. There is only one Creator. The Creator you worship has to be the same Creator I worship because there is only one Creator. Regarding evil and demons...perhaps some Christian faiths do not believe in the devil but Catholics do. They believe that every person on the planet is subject to evil inspirations and temptations from Satan and his fallen angel followers. The lower realms are close to earth and I read somwere that lower realms can go beneath their realm but not above. In that light it makes sense to me that evil spirits are able to roam the earth. In fact, Jesus tells us in the New Testament that He was tempted by the devil before He was crucified. My belief may not conform to your belief but that is okay. Everybody is on their own path to God, our Creator. Our free will and the ability to conform our free will to the Will of God is the challenge we all face regardless of what religious or non-religious path we choose. |
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Date: 5/16/2007 9:23:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
How do I know they exist (besides what I’ve seen first hand) – In all major religion there is always a BASE. When I say base I mean a foundation of belief. I believe the one higher power (god) which is discussed throughout text/scriptures chooses to send wisdom and images, knowledge/enlighten to humans. After the information is sent the human recipient then interprets the images or vision based on his own life and surroundings. Way back when, I would think anything of higher power deserves worship…look at how people treated jesus…the ones that weren’t trying to kill him raised him up on high – for he is the king…Jesus never wanted that…he wanted people to understand life not celebrate his own. Resure – NOTHING I’ve ever written was ever based off another’s writing or stories of belief. The only stories I take in are paranormal accounts of people I meet in real life. Everything I’ve written here is based off my own beliefs system based what I have seen first hand and the emotions I go through…and also basic common sense with the ability to put two and two together. I can elaborate on everything in this comment and on this post if you wish. |
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Date: 5/16/2007 9:25:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Sin and 'evil' are man made term. Negative is negative – negative also doesn’t directly mean bad. |
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Date: 5/16/2007 9:35:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Sue, you are absolutely right. My god is your god, the Jews, the Muslims – all of them. To your whole comment, your right. In the end it is up to your feet to walk your path. All I ask is that does it make sense – not your religion im talking about the world as a whole. Every religion thinks the other religions are wrong – I refuse to believe that any one religion is wrong – just misinterpreted by the humans that wrote the ancient text. So there for if no one is wrong – what does it really boil down to when you trim out the fat. Take the core beliefs of each religion and make sense of them. For the religions like Wicca – im sure there are many different powerful spirits out there that wish to be worshiped – but in all creation it all has to stop somewhere – the one – the creator – it all has to begin and stop somewhere. Its societies fault for not acknowledging the power within instead of focusing your attention on the outside. |
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Date: 5/16/2007 12:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 62823
I think I understand where you are coming from Boom. It's true. Evil and sin are the reason why we are disconnected from God the Creator in the first place. I also believe that evil and sin are "man-made". Now please bear with me even if you do not believe, but I believe our first parents Adam and Eve used their free will to disobey God the Creator..thus creating the 3rd dimension existence/reality we live in today. I also believe that evil and sin are inspired by evil spirits who do everything in their power to urge us to disobey our Creator, just as they did to Adam and Eve. Evil spirits can read minds and they know our weaknesses thus giving them an upper edge when we are weak. When someone commits a horrific act and has never done anything like that before that had to be a product of evil influence combined with a weak human will. Our merciful and loving Creator gives us all His resources in Heaven to strengthen our free will against evil influence and sin through prayer, kind acts, tools of mercy for protection (i.e. asking for intercession to Jesus from the Blessed Mother, Saints, Angels, good and holy spirits and light beings and even aliens who serve and love God. It's true that some of this knowledge may have been destroyed. Someday we will know for sure. The souls who have achieved oneness with God are with God...and my guess is that there are other beings in Heaven besides human beings. My other guess is that the souls in the highest Chambers have matched their will perfectly to the Will of God. It's just a guess and I'll keep searching for the truth like everybody else but I certainly will not discredit what you think out of respect for the path you chose to God. Now some Christian faiths are probably rolling their eyes and condeming me for what I just said...but I know better. |
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Date: 5/16/2007 1:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 62823
Allow me to add one more thing regarding my comment on other Christians comments on my comments. I want them to know that I truly believe Jesus is our Lord and Savior, Ruler and King of this planet. He is the Son of God and He is One with God. Rightfully all things must go through Him and by His direction only. I also believe many things outside the Bible are completely biblical and that Jesus' directions are being dispelled to us through other means other than the Church because of the age we are living in. I accept this but I know many will not. |
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Date: 5/16/2007 1:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
So Boom, man created "negativity?" |
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Date: 5/16/2007 1:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
Suebjazz, if evil and sin are "man-made," then how could there be evil spirits before man to tempt Adam and others after him? |
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Date: 5/16/2007 2:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
Or, Boom, are we dealing more with terms in that one can call something evil or a sin, but the real word is negativity, which is what is above creation by man? If that is the case, I personally tend to believe that energy is energy, and there is no such thing as "negative energy" or "positive energy." |
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Date: 5/17/2007 8:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 62823
Gypsyhawk, you called a good hand on that one. The more I think about it I agree with you. Man-made is really not the correct term. Sin and evil had to have pre-dated mankind. If it did not pre-date mankind than that would discredit the Genesis account of the first "sin" of mankind. Adam and Eve could have rejected the evil inspiration but they chose to accept and act on it. Thanks for pointing that out. |
Date: 5/17/2007 8:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Hey your post, the way you wrote it reminds ME of ME and I write like you do sometimes, running around the subject with little tidbits. I of course believe in God, In Jesus and in the Holy Spirit of God. I also know that satan and his group of angels have indeed been cast down to this earth long long ago. I believe that just as God gave US free will to believe or follow Him, that he also has given the angels free will to follow Him or as a third of the angels did, follow satan. I do not believe that God and satan are the same. I do believe that God is the postive Power and energy and satan is the negative power and energy. I believe that daily the two forces are fighting against each other, satan for the bad of people and God for the Good of people. I agree with DR that satan is NOT all powerfull, or none would choose to be with God the Father. And in closing before work, I'd like to say, that yes I believe there is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun. Oh and one more thing, if we decieve ourself that none of the powers that be, can't get to us, can't interfer with us, then we have truely been decieved. Ok, off to work, ya'll have a nice day.  |
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Date: 5/17/2007 9:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Your representation of what would have happened had Lucifer not been thrown out of Heaven, Boom Boom, in no way coincides with mine. Do you believe that the humanoids here on earth prior to the advent of homosapiens acted and felt in the manner in which you described, i.e., "walking around with love and smiles pouring out there(sic) ears . . . enjoying the feel of the animals(sic) fur as it rips your organs out"? Survival instincts are animalistic altogether, and as we are part of the animal kingdom, why would our survival instincts (and those of our very distant ancestors) not be present throughout All Creation? You say we are UNIQUE in that we possess the "ability to understand, learn and progress." Good. I agree. That means, IMHO, that there is something BEYOND survival instincts within us human beings, which sets us apart from animals and surviving beyond just instincts. My postulation is that that "something else" is the ability to reason in our minds -- beyond just surviving -- why we FEEL the way we do. It is not to just get rid of FEELINGS. How can you do that anyway? I would really like to know how that is possible. Feelings just are. They are going to occur no matter what. So one has a feeling (or emotion) such as envy. That is a "normal" feeling. BUT, it is how your mind processes that feeling, how your physicalility reacts, how it is manifested in your interactions, that is the key. You can react negatively or positively to that feeling. To acknowledge that you have the feeling and do what you can do in a positive sense about it IS to be working under the auspices of the Holy Spirit, (God's Mind, to be as one (mind with God. To DENY that you even have the feeling, to try to shed yourself of your (negative?) human emotions, IS TO BE CONTRARY TO GOD! How can you shed yourself of human emotions? How can you tell God, "No, I don't want that part of Your Creation"? It is your mind that deems the emotion negative or positive, not an inherent quality of the emotion (feeling) itself. With the way you are presenting this (i.e., that humans must somehow be "superhuman" -- shedding our human skin and human emotions -- in order to be able to come into God's Kingdom) it is no wonder that so many people turn away from God. Attaining these standards you claim are necessary is an impossibility, leaving the receptor of your message to say, "Why even bother trying . . ." God Bless. |
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Date: 5/19/2007 4:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
Is Satan evil? |
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Date: 5/20/2007 7:22:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
i do plan on commenting back on you guys i've just had a busy weekend with family from PA and Brooklyn coming over. Thank you guys for the comments and letting me pull some hairs. |
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Date: 5/20/2007 7:40:00 AM
From Authorid: 30051
I must say I have learned first hand the HARD way that Firstborn is 100% if not more correct.. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 7:14:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Firstborn (hi, long time;p) God made us in the image of man. One of the many reasons I've come to the conclusion (in my ever changing/evolving in my views) is that humans are born with these two 'poles' of the energy spectrum...positive/negative - and look at life - in order to have positive - we must have negative - vice versa - see where im getting at with this? They NEED eachother for without the two there wouldnt be the other, ya know? |
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Date: 5/21/2007 7:30:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Gypsy, there are such things as negative and posiive energy - each energy in its pure or semi pure state has there own characteristics...and if you know what your doing...each pole has there own abilities. Some traits I've noticed of a 'negative' is the abiltiy to fool people...if they arent overweight then there looks are shaggy, there eyes are more squinted - most walk with a heavy foot...meaning you can hear them walking. Positive energy makes people open up to you - your aura is one big magnet for energies (like other people). They also walk like they are on air...they will walk and you wont hear there foot steps. These are things I've noticed and unlike everything else in this post I cant elaborate any further due to the fact you'll never understand it and me sounding like a nut. I've been practicing spiritual matters since I was 16 (im 22 now).(no i dont know everything). I believe if you are on the path to spiritual progression you will unlock abilties in your mind, like understand and the gift of conversation. WE ARE LIKE GOD - We are made in his image - god has no body/image...Gypsy - terms are just that - terms - what are 'terms'? Man made words...Now check this out - > |
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Date: 5/21/2007 7:37:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Romans 12:5-7 We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. - Though I dont believe in the bible in its entireity - just like you guys dont believe in other religions - But I choose to believe in the core belief system of each religion - and each relligion speaks of spirituals gifts - these spiritual gifts are what this society terms supernatural, paranormal. What is progression through faith if all your able to do is read some scriptures and make your own interpretation....spiritual gifts are then of healing...laying of the hands as jesus did which is reiki - sensing energies - that of negative and positive and so much more. Now lets see where this post takes us... |
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Date: 5/21/2007 8:15:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Deb, the whole love fur and ripping organs out was a bad example, I figured that would have been obvious. When you mention in your comment on 'feelings; I assume your referring to my statement on shedding your humans emotions to enter 'heaven'. When I said that I meant to shed the negative emotions we may harbor upon death - like hate, jealousy. envy, pride - when you die I believe you either come to terms and have some sort of spiritual release of emotions or stay on this plan of existence until you do. Your absolutely right...feelings are just that - feelings but the bad or negative (im getting so tired of writing 'negative') feeling are the feelings we learn through life - after we learn them we can put them to use - as its said somewhere...what does not kill us can only make us stronger - isn't that the purpose of experiencing bad things, to in the end make us a better 'whole'. Your interactions in terms of feelings has nothing to do with the two...I can envy someone and shake there hand at the same time....but i would still feel the 'envy'. Envy itself isn't bad, its when you harbor like a seedling and allow it to spread roots is when it becomes a problem. Envy is a feeling that we feeling that in the end should - make - us go get what we envy instead of wishing.To - deny- and - shed - your emotions are two different things. To deny your emotions to lead to harboring (which i mentioned above) to SHED your feelings means to acknowledge your emotions but becoming to terms or 'one' with them. After all...envy is one of the deadly sins, no? So to shed (or whichever term you wish to use) a deadly sin is contrary to god...hmmm. Yes Deb you are absolutely right - coming to terms with your emotions to make you a stronger person is a HUMAN IMPOSSIBILITY...I guess that makes me superhuman (meow). Emotions are EMOTIONS - it is not your mind that deems that negative or positive - they are what they are....there isn't a two way street when it comes to that. To say that is to say that humans HATE in different ways - we hate different things but hate, envy, lust, pride, greed are what they are - in any race, religion, creed, society, ERA. To your last sentence....I have no words for that. It is not my words that turn away people from god it is people like you that dont offer/shoot down an alternative to the belief structure that turn people away. GOD 'The Universe' gave us the ability to think, use it. What you base your life off of - Jesus, the son - The apostles, Mary, the saints, - there blood is red like mine - there brain consist of the same amount of receptors and neurons as mine - Yet who deems them fit to write about creator like they have been around from Day one - What...they meditate in their tents and get a vision and all of a sudden its the 'right' vision? Ever get a vision? Its up to INTERPRETATION - Whats interpretation? When a human being uses his life experience to make sense and bring symbols into words, from what? HIS LIFE EXPERIENCE. To say people like me make people turn away from god is none sense (gotta love the g rating). People turn away from YOUR GOD because life is not structured and a religion that is bound by structure is not spiritual progression - its order and control - Tell me why 3/4 of your bible is missing and destroyed - tell me why there need to be revisions of the bible over and over again - tell me why your bible was interpreted by men (bc era) and then re-written/interpreted by more men, and more men. and more men. How can you know the 'truth' if the truth' was re-written and destroyed? Tell me....wait...let me answer you - "Its faith" (blind faith) Now lets see where this post takes us. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 8:25:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
I respect all of you (all). The truth is hidden...in music, in movie, in books, in media - for god is everything including inspiration (muse). Dont reply to this comment. I dont enjoy people twisting the meaning of my words to fit their agenda. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 8:33:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
AND no...im not saying im better, smarter or closer to god then anyone...so dont open that up. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 9:07:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Well, now. The "gift of conversation" is apparently not welcome here! No one is twisting your words around but yourself. If you were able to make yourself understood in the first place, maybe you wouldn't have to come back here and try to explain your (previous words. And it is your previous words which gave rise to my thought that it would be impossible for anyone to achieve the Kingdom of God via "your interpretation"; your subsequent words allow me, now, to loosening the proclaimation I made to which you seemingly took much offense to. I have news for you: My God is YOUR GOD! There can Only Be One. I, personally don't think that you and I are too far off in our "interpretation of spiritual progression", hon, but your hostility (negative emotion?) isn't going to help yours . . . unless you're willing to acknowledge it and reconcile it with ALL that is affected by it. I am still not sure if I am completely understanding your version of "shedding", but I do understand that you and I agree that the emotion will be there no matter what. It is how we deal with the emotion that is the positive or negative. I don't believe in waiting until one dies to achieve this shedding -- I believe it needs to be done at the living stage, which is every moment of one's life. I, again, am not sure if this previous sentence is an accurate representation of what you are trying to get across, but that is the way I am reading your statements to mean. As far as your revile re: my "faith", my "interpretations", my(?) "bible", I can truly say, "I forgive you for your transgressions." God Bless. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 9:28:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Deb, without reading your last comment I would like to say something. If I could take out edit/delete the statement I made (god gave us the ability to think, use) I would. I took offense to some of your last statements in your previous comment which I interpreted as me /my words stray people away from god the creator. I'm sorry if you didn't mean it as such but thats the way I took it. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 9:46:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
The universe is way to complex for me to make you or others understand (in just one post and 20 replies, ya know) Yes, my god is your god, and the muslims god, indians god(s). Hey, I never said negativity was bad thing, its what makes us- us- , ya know. I understand that you think that the 'shedding' would need to come before the life cycle ends but some people are ignorant until the day they die. I try to encompass my views and belief structure to accompany every aspect of life (or at least i try). So therefore I refuse to believe an ignorant person that was so unfortunate to have people like me and you into their lives will be denied happiness in their afterlife. This is why i come to the conclusion that there has to be some sort of learning, shedding, growth that takes place even in death via soul. Please, dont forgive me....If i was in a church and I were to explain what I've said here and they ended the conversation with "I forgive you"...it wouldnt been a pretty picture. I need 100 grand before i need forgiveness. As much as I am kind and positive my negative side doesn't stand for things like that. "Say what you mean, mean what you say" Ya know. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 9:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 19613
Boy are you guys gonna feel silly when the Giant Spaghetti Monster welcomes you into His kingdom... |
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Date: 5/21/2007 10:12:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Hmm, I think i feel comfortable calling you a fool ; ) Please, express yourself my brother (from another mother?) |
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Date: 5/21/2007 10:42:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Aaah. But, you see that is where we differ, I suppose. You say you don't need my forgiveness. You are not allowing that I MAY NEED TO FORGIVE YOU because of any negative emotions I may have been harboring due to your words; thus, I may henceforth be of the knowledge that I have shed myself of that particular negativity. You have said that God is the whole universe, but then your words re: forgiveness belie the fact that I am a part of that universe, also . . . God Bless. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 10:55:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Deb, maybe its me but I didnt whole heartedly understand your comment. (no offense, im stupid) If you dont mind could you re-write your comment. In the end I feel like im going to agree with you and smile ; ) |
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Date: 5/21/2007 10:58:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Or maybe just smile ;P (I make myself laugh at the most randomness moments) |
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Date: 5/21/2007 11:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
What I was trying to say was that in order for me to shed a negative feeling, I need to forgive you. You're telling me you don't need my forgiveness; but in so doing, you're ignoring the ALL (the whole picture, which I am a part of. If our goal is to be a part of the ALL, then we need to be considerate of the ALL. I hope that makes sense, now, and I have been smiling during ALL my interactions on this post. God Bless. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 11:24:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
The 'negative' that I keep talking about is not a feeling, its a state of being. You dont need to forgive me or anyone to shed anything. Forgive yourself for thinking you would have to think that...then you become one with yourself...lets stop using this term shed. Were not sheep (are we?). You are already part of the whole babe just by being alive. You are connected to the world, just realize it. What all do you mean? People? You cant be considerate of the world because the world isn't considerate of you. I've tried, the world is what it is. The bible says our body is our temple...its also your world. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 2:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
With just reading your replies to me, I've got to say that I disagree. I asked if you thought Satan was evil in order to get you or someone to respond in a way in which I could give you the true definition, or at least the one that makes the most sense. Yes, terms are terms, but Jesus and many other Spiritual people talked about evil and Satan, and they must have meant SOMETHING. I disagree that evil is negativity because there can be evil present with no parties involved experiencing negativity. Negativity is what people on this physical level experience in their own minds. Period. So again, what does it mean? What does Satan mean? Is Satan just a concept or term to you? I assure you, there is a real meaning behind Satan and evil, and I assure you that you have never heard it before. I feel very safe in saying that. And, you do not have to worry about me not understanding what you are saying; I know quite well and am further along than your level of it. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 2:29:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Gypsy, by you assuming that you are "farther along then me" just shows me how much you haven't come. Tell me, what makes you 'further along then me'? (whatever that means) Your comments, had nothing to do with my post anyway. I answered your question 3 times. You asked it 3 times in reiteration and I answered as such. Bye bye |
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Date: 5/21/2007 3:16:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Are you further along then me cause you go to church and sleep with your bible under your pillow with your sleepers by your bed. Satan is a man made term. For god sakes pay attention. I've said this so many times pretty much in the majority of my replies and my post. You know how much is in the bible that Jesus supposedly said, very little. Through out the bible the gospels of Luke, Job, Matthew speaks of Jesus through what they have seen (or interpreted?). And Just cause you disagree with me doesn't make 'Me wrong, you right'....I haven't been 5 years old in some time now. **I disagree that evil is negativity because there can be evil present with no parties involved experiencing negativity"* How can evil be present if evil doesn't exist!!!! I was really going to write more but its clear to me that you do not have any grasp on the subject at hand....or the subject that was discussed and answered 50 replies ago. Im no fish, stop baiting me - "Say what you mean, mean what you say" |
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Date: 5/21/2007 3:18:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Im a cat 'meow' |
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Date: 5/21/2007 3:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
"Negativity" is what is not real. "Evil" is what is real. Me saying what I said is simply fact, proven by your comments on me and others here. You know what the "false self" is? Think about it. You have to get above it to see things clearly. Believe me, I don't usually say things like that, but I can see it clearly here. And no, you didn't answer my question about Satan and evil, and no, it wasn't a bait. Baiting is when someone puts a line out to snag you in some error or such. I was attempting to begin a conversation on what evil really is so that you could understand a few things, but it looks like that won't happen. It doesn't belong to the post? When you say God and the Devil are the Same Being, I pretty much think evil is going to be a big part of the discussion, and I wasn't even going to bring it up anyway, but I saw in the earlier comments where it was being tossed around and no one seems to have ever taken a proper look at it. Like I said, it was said by Jesus and many others, and since it was said so many times by Jesus in many contexts, I believe it was something He talked about. Well, I guess you're not ready for what I have to say. Good day. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 4:23:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
First off, the only fact here is that evil is a concept in the eyes of the beholder. "Baiting is when someone puts a line out to snag you in some error or such" Now for what you said - > "I asked if you thought Satan was evil in order to get you or someone to respond in a way in which I could give you the true definition," Asking a question to which you already having your answer to? At least one thing you have in common with the bible is your both full of contradictions. You also present nothing to me to think about or to convince me otherwise. "I was attempting to begin a conversation on what evil" Once again, evil is a concept - say it with me 'Cahn-cept'. You need to understand your own thoughts better before you even attempt to figure me out...or "to help me understand". ---->"it was being tossed around and no one seems to have ever taken a proper look at it." No one took a proper look at it because them, unlike you, understood that evil is a concept. Im always ready for whatever anyone has to say. I just don't think your ready...willing or able. Side question, how old are you? And also, you never answered my question as to 'what makes you further along then me' and what exactly do you mean by further along. I eagerly await you to ignore the majority of my points in this comment as you make your next reply ; ) |
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Date: 5/21/2007 4:33:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Seriously, you need to stop being so repetitive. I've said so many times that evil is a concept and you just keep on ignoring it. Its fact, if you dont think so then you 'haven't come along further then me' cause your still a victim of your own mind. Do me a favor, make a decent convincing argument on your behalf and try not to make your comment look like your last 5 replies (content wise). Convince o' great one, help me understand my brother. And what is it that Jesus and these other spiritual leaders talked about. I see how it was that impact full as you quoted the scripture or lecture they gave word for word. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 4:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
Does goodness exist? |
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Date: 5/21/2007 4:46:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
I'm not entertaining you when you use a word like 'goodness'. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 5:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
I don't think you wand a debate; you want a podium. You are trying to force your idea of evil down my throat, and I simply disagree. It is not a concept; it is an objective reality. You are saying I'm not hearing you, but I am; I simply disagree. When you quote me, please finish the whole quote: "I asked if you thought Satan was evil in order to get you or someone to respond in a way in which I could give you the true definition, OR AT LEAST THE ONE THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE." (My emphasis). Another quote on that point: (Made to Deb) "I see your definition [of evil], and am expanding it to see what other people say. When you think about it, I think it can be a tricky question. Shakespeare wrote "Nothing is good nor bad but thinking makes it so." I agree, but he said "bad," not "evil." I have my own definiton of "evil," but I want to see what others say, too. In my thinking, there is a strange paradox here..." It all means discussion. I can take, and usually do, other thoughts on a subect. This is how I enter some points, and it shows if people are really interested in it (since I brought it up to begin with), before I launch into my take on things and find that people pretty much ignore it anyway. I never try to jam something down someone's throat. My mind is just fine. Of course I don't present anymore about it besides what I said to Deb, because neither you nor anyone else seems receptive to it. Why do I see myself as further along than you? Because you talk very defensively and condescendingly. If you really have the Truth, you find you never need to do that. Not that I have it all; I still have a long, long way to go. I'm 41. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 5:46:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
I would like a podium with a huge sound system that they could hear my in china : ) You are absolutely ridiculous to say I'm forcing anything down anyones throat. It seems that the more intelligent people that replied to this post didn't take my replies as such. I didn't finish quoting you because I didn't want to waste space in my reply. And once again you, like the bible, contradict yourself because "OR AT LEAST THE ONE THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE" was no in your original quote either (who do you think your trying to fool?) Maybe if you didn't enter into a discussion/debate headstrong with no intention on listening and trying to understand you wouldn't have to TRY to get people interested they will be attracted to it automatically. "before I launch into my take on things and find that people pretty much ignore it anyway." Ignore it you say? You mean like how you ignored me and what I've said through our whole little ordeal in this post. How bout you go ask some body else besides the man in the mirror if 'evil' is a concept (but first look up what a concept is). You base my overall spiritual progress base on my words in this post. I didn't know by answering questions DIRECTLY (not beating around the bush) was taking me away from grace. Listen, I'll say this, stick to your bible. Your obviously a deep religious person even if you dont go to church. You came into my post with the intention of TALKING and not LISTENING. If you would just listen and maybe even RESEARCH a thing or two we would have these prolonged conversations about a topic you know little to nothing about. Im not defensive, Im confrontational. There is a difference. Find me one person that will back you on the fact the evil is not a concept. Let me take the first step for you - http://myusm.com/usm227487.html - Like I said previously "Your On The Sidewalk, Im Playing In Traffic". |
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Date: 5/21/2007 6:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
Hehehe. "First off, the only fact here is that evil is a concept in the eyes of the beholder...Once again, evil is a concept - say it with me 'Cahn-cept'". If you haven't figured it out yet, that's what I'm debating, and it sure seems like you're trying to jam your "fact" down my throat. Ummm, as far as not originally having that at the end of my quote, I invite you to count up 10 comments from this one and read it. I can't add to my comments after I post them, lol. "Maybe if you didn't enter into a discussion/debate headstrong with no intention on listening and trying to understand..." That's exactly what I DON'T do, as is said in my above comment. Asking if Satan is evil is a simple question. I would follow any straight, respectable answer with my own views, and voila! a discussion would ensue. I find a give-and-take that starts with a small question is much, much more effective in a debate than one long paragraph that is beginning a new point and put right in the middle of the discussion. To me, that's imposing a lot more than asking a few questions. Lastly, all of your assumptions about me are wrong. Simple. And yeah, one's progress in this regard is seen in their words, but of course, you don't understand that yet. Perhaps someday you will. At any rate, have a good night. |
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Date: 5/21/2007 6:46:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Why dont you tell me about yourself. I've sat here and wrote paragraph after paragraph explaining my views and thoughts. Im tired of writing to a brick wall."And yeah, one's progress in this regard is seen in their words, but of course, you don't understand that yet." Progress in this regard is in your opinion. In my opinion I would compare your 'progress' to a cavemen. You dont know what progress is, if you do tell me what "progress" in this regard is. What am I not progressing towards? Simple question, no? |
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Date: 5/21/2007 6:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Honestly, I really dont want to waste any more energy on this futile topic of 'evil' or 'satan'. If you cant get the gist of anything in the post or any of my countless paragraphs of explaining it then im spent. Bye bye |
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Date: 5/21/2007 7:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
Excuse me? What sort of word should I use to ask you if you believe in the concept of 'goodness'? |
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Date: 5/22/2007 8:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
Hey, Gypsy, perhaps you'll join me in, once again, offering forgiveness to BoomBoom (even though he doesn't feel or think that it is needed); he's in his 20's (and I don't know about you, but when I was in my 20's I didn't have a whole lot of patience, either AND, as I have just read on another post, he's attempting to quit smoking (thus, undoubtedly his stress level is high), so I can allow for the curtness and short-sightedness in his ability to read what is actually being written here. Hey, BoomBoom, GOOD LUCK with quitting. God Bless. |
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Date: 5/22/2007 8:46:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Thank you very much Deb. The whole not smoking thing does get your nerves on end. Im chewing nicotine gum constantly all day. On a side not, Gypsy - you need to stop pretending like you know my 'progression'. You have absolutly no idea what I've seen, done or can do. |
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Date: 5/22/2007 12:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
Yes, good luck on quitting smoking! That is an honorable and great achievement. I was on the gum before, when I attempted to quit chewing. |
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Date: 5/22/2007 2:21:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Just to give myself a chuckle (people still use that word?) i say to myself on going to get addicted to the gum. |
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Date: 5/22/2007 3:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
I'll tell ya what. After being on the gum for a while, the taste started to get attached to me, lol. I think that's why they make it so expensive. It could be cheaper, but I think by law they must make it costly so people don't just switch addictions. |
Date: 5/25/2007 6:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 13283
There is something very odd going on in that I agree . I almost want to say they work in tandem somehow . God and the Devil are two BIG mysteries . They are both here to teach us a lesson . Razzy aka  |
Date: 5/30/2007 7:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 15157
Hi Boom Boom...According to the Bible Angels were given Free Will. Just like us. |
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Date: 5/31/2007 8:22:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
I see your point Keeks (hi ;P) but according to the bible were not to have sex before we are wed...maybe I doomed myself at 15? along with the other non wed active teens. If we are forgiven for the 'sins' of man whats the point of a sin...to act upon then ask for forgivness and then do it again...doesnt make sense to me. |
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Date: 5/31/2007 3:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 55967
Can you point out where that's at in the Bible? (no sex before marriage). I always wondered about that. IS it spelled out like adultery is? |
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Date: 5/31/2007 5:22:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 26733
Yes Gypsy, adultery. |
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